TX-NR3010 / 5010 Info - Page 14

I'm not ranting. I actually have the units ( or had ) you do not. I don't have to justify my ears or everyone else's ears. Hearing is believing. And 4 minutes is more than enough time to hear a distinct difference. Maybe instead of backseat Comparing you should do some on your own for a change.

Did you actually read my published report? Right in the first few sentences I state this is all my opinion.

Another one.

Jaclyn says thank you. So do I.

Thanks.

I will fly you out and let you sit in and compare. Seriously.

Slight improvements in clarity often result from a very slight increase in the loudness of the clearer unit. Have people been level-matching for comparison purposes?

Go back again and look at exactly how this started.

And your example is absurd. Obviously, graphs would support that difference if you chose to take them.

It would be pointless to do that given the time lag in your methodology, as has been vetted many times and I won't claim to have audio memory superior to all known studies of humans. I'd be happy to come out and measure though, as that would actually have potential for objective results.

Sorry I don't have a double set up ready to go for instantaneous testing.

Ful calibration for each unit and both were at the same exact volume level. Loudness was not it. Clarity (or detail) was more defined.

Does anyone know if the TX-NR3010 exibits the same relay clicking sounds that the TX-NR3007 has (I have the TX-NR3007) and find it extremely annoying and am using latest firmware.

Also I have found no screenshots of the onscreen menus, anyone know where to find those?

Great points. I should point out also that I use Coax (most of the time) for DirecTV sound because I believe (my opinion) the sound is better. You need to define moderate levels. We are usually around 77 to 79 in our theater. It is pretty loud. Of course reading the material is much different than actually havin them both and listening to them both. As I said in the Comparison about stats on paper.... That's why we play the games...
Edited by joerod - 8/21/12 at 5:30pm

Oh but for Blu ray and everything else it's Hdmi for sound.

thanks joerod for the unscientific opinions. i am sure 90% of audio video SCIENCE forum bases their decisions on more opinions than science anyways.

Great idea.

The E-Onkyo Hi-Rez music streaming service is presently available in Nippon Japan. It is anticipated that the E-Onkyo service will be available globally in Fall 2012.

I nominate this or any other topic for subsequent civilized discussion to get the topics of discussion on this thread back on track here at AVS Forum.

Seems to me the last three or four pages of bickering have been established and dead-horse has been beaten out of nine lives.

For example, do any current owners of a TX-NR3010 or TX-NR5010 have a menu in a GUI with a greyed out button to E-Onkyo. Do any of our friends in the Far East that might still be lurking have expeirence with the E-Onkyo service ? On paper the combination of the E-Onkyo service and a high quality DAC in a 2012 Onkyo AVR seems quite appealing.

---

Originally Posted by Lionanimal

Would it be fair to assume the design implementation to accommodate E-Onkyo streaming hi-rez music service involves firmware available on some of the 2012 AVR's ? In other words, when it becomes available in anticipated Fall 2012 in USA that only some of the fully featured 2012 Onkyo AVR's can provide access ? In other words, a software download to prior year 2011 models is not possible to accomodate E-Onkyo streaming service ?
http://www.intl.onkyo.com/whats_new/2012_0503.html
http://www.intl.onkyo.com/whats_new/2012_0503.html
I inquired to Onkyo-USA without reply.

---

Separately the involvement of Gibson in the domestic Onkyo-USA operation portends more good things to follow.

Does anyone know if the Onkyo plant in Maylasia is a diffent manufacturing facility than the source of reliability issues in Onkyo AVR's a few years ago ?

It's a little annoying when the Double-Blind ABX Stormtroopers swoop in on every receiver/amp thread to tell everyone they aren't hearing what they think they're hearing.

I'm not even saying you're wrong but, how about assuming that 99.8% of the time, us hobbyists aren't doing ABX testing in our homes, but simply trying out our gear, doing the best we can (like fast switch-outs), comparing the best we can from memory, and providing opinions?

Then, when you read "A is better than B", you can relax, possibly inquire about level-matching, take it for what it is, and move on.

I feel exactly what you just posted.

I talked it over with the Wife and I am at the point where I think I will just stop posting on avs. Or at least possibly pop in from time to time. If people have questions or want to make comments they could always email either using the link from the reviews or my main page. Don't get me wrong, I get it that no matter what you do your method will always be questioned by someone.... But to spend the time I did and funds only to have a couple here chalk it up to "plecebo" effect or "no charts no accuracy" is bs. I was happy after I posted the comparison. If I stayed off avs I would still be happy about it. Coming here kinda ruins it. Who else here has had about 30 Receivers in their set up over the last couple years? And I can't claim something sounds better or different because it took 4 minutes to hit play between Receivers???

I (as does my Wife Jaclyn) truly appreciate the support and kind words from the vast majority out there and it's because of you that I have always continued to come here and kept up the Reviews. It has always been fun. I remember the days of passing out thousands of copies of Onkyo firmware updates. But the day it stops being fun is the day I will walk away. I am still available via PMs here and of course emails thru my site. I seriously get why most Magazine Reviewers either lurk (and never post) or stay completely away from the forums. Not saying I am like them just saying I get that. Maybe I should finally accept one of their offers to publish with them...

I just don't want to create anymore controversial posts. This is supposed to be about the new 3010 and 5010 not about what I did or didn't do.

joerod - without people like you posting, AVS would be a wasteland. If you all stopped posting here, new members would never benefit from educated experienced users. This place is all about sharing information and experiences. Like many, I live in an audio wasteland where audio stores have either closed shop or turned into custom installers - not retailers so there is no where to go for real world comparisons. I have no option other than to rely upon people I have learned to trust (you for one) on forums like this to benefit from their contributions so I can make some type of educated choice on purchases. I try hard to ignore the pot-stirrers but do get sucked in at times. PLEASE stay here!!!.
Pete

You and the other guy's "honest" perseverance only chased a great person away, whose writings were useful to me. Don't you people possess any emotional intelligence? I am not a native English speaker, but the posts were offensive IMO.

I read a lot of reviews from fanboys to hardboiled sceptic scientists. Adding my own experience to the mix, I filter out what I feel is important. And get on with it...

It clicks when it first turns on during its power up and when the sound processing changes. I use NEO:X for everything, so it only clicks during initial setup for me and never again, regardless of the format sent to the 3010 (stereo, DD 5.1, TrueHD, etc).

In my case, I suspect the differences between the Pioneer and the Onkyo are due to Audyssey XT32 and the ability to actually use all my speakers (9.1 instead of only 7.1).

Does anyone know where the 3010 shows if the speakers are considered Large or Small? I cannot find it.

joe, I bought my 3009 at last year with your help. keep helping us with their amazing reviews and do not listen to boring and fanboys that roam the AVS Forum

Ronald

Perfectly salient and reasonable question, Bill. I can assure you though none of them will be met with anything other than "I can hear a difference" so we're probably best to move on.

As for: "Do you think they would make a 5010 if it was exactly the same as the 3010?"

Ummm, as far as sound quality is concerned: absolutely.

The toroidal transofrmer, extra 8 bits (lmao, btw) of DAC, etc all are wonderful in the "proposed fidelity increase world" but neither have ever been proven to be identifiable in level-matched ABX's.

But, sigh, either- especially in combination- of course strengthen the belief of those who want (knowingly or not) want to believe the notion that there is a difference.

Whatever helps you sleep at night I guess.

James
Edited by mastermaybe - 8/22/12 at 6:21am

Yeah, the "many who believe the human ear can't tell any difference between the quality of 24/32 bit DACs" have science and its numerous ABX tests ion their side, what do you have?

"but this seems to challenge that opinion".

Excuse me? A literal handful of people purporting that their shiny, new, $2,000 AVR sounds "better" than "x" minutes or DAYS after switching the two? Good grief, this is insane.

Well, if you guys say so I guess we'll simply throw out all of the science and just take your word for it.

Jams
Edited by mastermaybe - 8/22/12 at 7:25am

Yeah, people looking to fasten a little reality to hyperbolic rah-rah can be annoying to some I suppose.

Look, AVRs with identical room correction sound the same.

Look, AVRs with identical room correction sound the same.

Should I go again?

No, 24 to 32 bit DACs do not produce a humanly identifiable increase in fidelity. It's been proven.

No, a toroidal transformer does not produce a humanly identifiable increase in fidelity. It's been proven.

No, an AVR producing 100 watts per channel vs one with just 70 does not produce a humanly identifiable increase in fidelity. It's been proven. An extra 1-2 dbs of output before clipping? Absolutely. Is that important? Absolutely not.

What's important (in God-like voice-over, lmao):

1. Does the AVR provide the input options/switching necessary for your selected components?

2. Does the AVR offer the room correction suite/performance and EQing features that you desire?

3. Does the AVR offer amplifiers that satiate your main rooms speaker array and/or multi zone needs- including flexibility in this regard?

4. Does the AVR offer the multi-zone capabilities you desire/need?

5. Features/extras:
a. is a superior GUI important to you?
b. do you need/desire superior video processing?
c. fit/finish/build quality: where does it rank for you?
d. remote? most at this level use a Harmony/3rd party, but, whatever.
e. fill-in-the-blank feature/oddity

Anyone choosing an AVR based upon 20 watts more per channel, 24 vs 32 bit dacs, or the transformer type- or worse- reporting they hear a difference based upon these factors either has an agenda or is providing an opinion that cannot be replicated in a side by side.

Get angry, call names, assuage that I (or anyone else implying a similar notion) are ABX loons/nazis/whatever, but it's not going to change a damn thing.

And yep, I'd be willing to bet a months salary that NO ONE on this thread could discern a level-matched 3009, 3010, 5009, 5010 from the others, side by side.

But heh, again, whatever helps you sleep at night.

James
Edited by mastermaybe - 8/22/12 at 7:24am