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TX-NR3010 / 5010 Info - Page 33

post #961 of 1066
Agreed, but you said it yourself - hardware is required. No one has hardware out there yet that can actually do full 4K due to no hardware being out there to do HDMI 2.0. Buying now and expecting to be future proofed for full 4K is an exercise in failure. And yes, if a chipset can only do partial 4K (such as only at 25Hz or slower), then it is gimped.

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #962 of 1066
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

Agreed, but you said it yourself - hardware is required. No one has hardware out there yet that can actually do full 4K due to no hardware being out there to do HDMI 2.0. Buying now and expecting to be future proofed for full 4K is an exercise in failure. And yes, if a chipset can only do partial 4K (such as only at 25Hz or slower), then it is gimped.
Since I told the OP that it's likely this year's models would have full 4K support, and those haven't been announced yet, I guess you agree with me that it's possible, since in case you didn't realize, they will have new hardware.
post #963 of 1066
HDMI 2.0 has yet to be approved - unless they wait until then to even start producing hardware they will not have HDMI 2.0 on them and therefor be unable to support full 4K. Unless you know some super secret information from the HDMI consortium, it appears it will not be happening in time for the next released models. As of right now, the HDMI consortium says they will release HDMI 2.0 sometime in the past - as in the first half of 2013...call me a pessimist, but I do not think they can release things in the past...

I would recommend anyone wanting to get 4K support to wait until there actually is full 4K support, otherwise they will be unhappy.
post #964 of 1066
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

HDMI 2.0 has yet to be approved - unless they wait until then to even start producing hardware they will not have HDMI 2.0 on them and therefor be unable to support full 4K. Unless you know some super secret information from the HDMI consortium, it appears it will not be happening in time for the next released models. As of right now, the HDMI consortium says they will release HDMI 2.0 sometime in the past - as in the first half of 2013...call me a pessimist, but I do not think they can release things in the past...
Now you're just repeating what I already said. I am an insider, but that also means I'm bound by several NDAs, and I'm going to leave it at that.
post #965 of 1066
I'm certainly not going to disbelieve what B Dave is saying. We knew quite a bit about the 30/5010 last JUNE. It's now the middle of July so I wouldn't be surprised at all if the extended wait could mean good things. Crikey, Sony, Yamaha, Denon, Marantz and others have already flashed their wares.

And will one of those good things be the ability to FINALLY play back digital inputs to the zones?! I recall seeing a thread on the Onkyo site were admins seemed to be taking seriously the comments and suggestions of posters and that popped up twice.

11.2 + NEO X + digital zones + HDMI 2.0 = Automatic buyer, here.

James
Edited by mastermaybe - 7/16/13 at 7:17am
post #966 of 1066
Quote:
Originally Posted by balboa dave View Post

Now you're just repeating what I already said. I am an insider, but that also means I'm bound by several NDAs, and I'm going to leave it at that.

Not really, you are saying the silicon already exists and is being manufactured and put into AVRs right now so the product can be put on the shelves in the next 5 months - and that this silicon is being kept super secret from everyone searching for it even though many companies are building equipment with it inside right now. I am not saying anything like that. Also, anyone can say anything then claim they cannot actually give any details and then say we have to trust them. I know what Prince William is going to have for lunch tomorrow - but I cannot say what it is or how I know...but trust me that I know what it is because I am a Royal Family insider. You believe me because I, an anonymous person on the Internet, told you I know, right?

Until an agreement is made on what actually comprises HDMI 2.0, there can be no silicon based on it. No silicon means no AVRs built with HDMI 2.0 in them. No AVRs build with HDMI 2.0 in them means no purchasing of AVRs with HDMI 2.0 I them.
post #967 of 1066
Does anyone have or know where I can get the July 24 2012 update files for usb update for the TX-NR1010. Onkyo only list the April 2013 update and I need to update the July 2012 before I can update the April 2013 according to the instructions.
post #968 of 1066
contact onkyo tech support?
post #969 of 1066
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

Not really, you are saying the silicon already exists and is being manufactured and put into AVRs right now so the product can be put on the shelves in the next 5 months - and that this silicon is being kept super secret from everyone searching for it even though many companies are building equipment with it inside right now. I am not saying anything like that. Also, anyone can say anything then claim they cannot actually give any details and then say we have to trust them. I know what Prince William is going to have for lunch tomorrow - but I cannot say what it is or how I know...but trust me that I know what it is because I am a Royal Family insider. You believe me because I, an anonymous person on the Internet, told you I know, right?

Until an agreement is made on what actually comprises HDMI 2.0, there can be no silicon based on it. No silicon means no AVRs built with HDMI 2.0 in them. No AVRs build with HDMI 2.0 in them means no purchasing of AVRs with HDMI 2.0 I them.

What is he contending that contradicts much of what you asserted? Also, I really seriously doubt anyone is "searching" for hdmi 2.0 components.

Seems to me he's basically saying Onkyo is:

1. Waiting for the HDMI 2.0 spec to be finalized.

2. Will produce/implement the hardware when ready...hence the delay in announcement of their hi-end avrs in 2013.

I also think there's fair chance they could have some hardware in place that may nearly fully implement the spec, anyway. This isn't uncommon, straightaway, and Onkyo's upper-crust avrs always seem to push the bleeding-edge of virtually any tech you can put in an AVR.

I guess I don't understand why you'd spend much energy trying to "out" this guy. I don't think he's really proclaiming anything too radical...and it will all almost certainly be be bore out one way or another in the next few weeks anyway.

James
post #970 of 1066
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

What is he contending that contradicts much of what you asserted? Also, I really seriously doubt anyone is "searching" for hdmi 2.0 components.

Seems to me he's basically saying Onkyo is:

1. Waiting for the HDMI 2.0 spec to be finalized.

2. Will produce/implement the hardware when ready...hence the delay in announcement of their hi-end avrs in 2013.

I also think there's fair chance they could have some hardware in place that may nearly fully implement the spec, anyway. This isn't uncommon, straightaway, and Onkyo's upper-crust avrs always seem to push the bleeding-edge of virtually any tech you can put in an AVR.

I guess I don't understand why you'd spend much energy trying to "out" this guy. I don't think he's really proclaiming anything too radical...and it will all almost certainly be be bore out one way or another in the next few weeks anyway.

James

He initially claimed you will be able to buy HDMI 2.0 AVR gear this year. Then he claimed there are evaluation chips out there for a non-existent specification. Then he claims you will be able to buy HDMI 2.0 AVR gear this year. Then he claims to be some insider who knows there are thousands of HDMI 2.0 chips already produced and currently being placed into AVRs so they can be boxed up and shipped to consumers in the next 5 months but cannot give us any actual info on this chips since he is an HDMI consortium agent bound to secrecy about all these chips. I started by saying they will not appear, but when he doubled down and then make claims he is part of the super secret team keeping the large supply of these chips hidden from view I scoffed at it. Without an actual spec there can be no chips built to the spec. Claiming there are already lots and lots of them built without a spec to build them to is silly.

The posts in question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by balboa dave View Post

The 5010 does not support 4K pass through, only 4K upscaling, which means output only. Full 4K support will likely be in this years models.
Quote:
Originally Posted by balboa dave View Post

The evaluation chipsets are out there for full 4K support. With the hardware in place, it's only a matter of bringing the firmware up to speed, not that that's trivial. HDMI 2.0 was scheduled to be released last month, it's been delayed, but there's enough details for the manufacturers to include many of the features if they choose to do so, even if it's as basic as just a pass through. HDMI 2.0 adds 4K at 60 fps, but 4K at 24 fps (which you call gimped) already exists for 1.4a.
Quote:
Originally Posted by balboa dave View Post

Since I told the OP that it's likely this year's models would have full 4K support, and those haven't been announced yet, I guess you agree with me that it's possible, since in case you didn't realize, they will have new hardware.


The spec is already overdue by a bit - I do not expect it to be released in time for initial silicon to be made, tested, approved, then new AVR designed to be made, tested, approved, and put into production for consumer purchase in the next 5 months. That is a huge undertaking.
Edited by cybrsage - 7/22/13 at 10:47am
post #971 of 1066
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

He initially claimed you will be able to buy HDMI 2.0 AVR gear this year. Then he claimed there are evaluation chips out there for a non-existent specification. Then he claims you will be able to buy HDMI 2.0 AVR gear this year. Then he claims to be some insider who knows there are thousands of HDMI 2.0 chips already produced and currently being placed into AVRs so they can be boxed up and shipped to consumers in the next 5 months but cannot give us any actual info on this chips since he is an HDMI consortium agent bound to secrecy about all these chips. I started by saying they will not appear, but when he doubled down and then make claims he is part of the super secret team keeping the large supply of these chips hidden from view I scoffed at it. Without an actual spec there can be no chips built to the spec. Claiming there are already lots and lots of them built without a spec to build them to is silly.

The posts in question.


The spec is already overdue by a bit - I do not expect it to be released in time for initial silicon to be made, tested, approved, then new AVR designed to be made, tested, approved, and put into production for consumer purchase in the next 5 months. That is a huge undertaking.

Ummmm, yeah, I (and others, I'm assuming) are aware of the claims you just took quite a bit of time and enrgy re-listing. confused.gif None of them really strike me as particularly fantastic, and really, with some of them, very much plausible.

You seem to be bizarrely obsessed with him revealing his identity and or "place" within his industry- long after he made it quite clear that both are barred from being compromised. This also is nothing new and a reality of thousands of industries.

If you truly believe that a spec has to be "finalized" or available for public consumption before manu's are able to produce chips utilizing all or part of it you are sorely mistaken and apparently ignorant as to the history of a multitude of technologies- including the very one in question, here.

choose not to believe him, fine. But continuing to refute the same items over and over again looks like madness. He's not going to tell you who he is. He's not going to tell you who he works for. Let the next 5 months answer the balance.

James
post #972 of 1066
So, my 1007 gave up the ghost this week and I have a 3010 on the way to replace it. Currently, I'm running a SVS 20-39CS+ and a Buttkicker LFE off a Crown XLS-1500 in stereo mode with Sub out 1 and 2 feeding the pair. With the 1007, I've been running Audyssey with the Buttkicker side of the Crown turned all the way down, then after Audyssey, I change number of subs to 2 and use the channel trims to adjust the Buttkicker from the seats. Will this same method work with the 3010 or do I need to feed both sides of the Crown the same subwoofer output and tweak using the gain knobs instead?

Also, I'm running an ART-351 EQ on the SVS side only as a subsonic filter. With past iterations of Audyssey, I know there has been a tendency to boost below 20Hz, so I have been disabling the subsonic filter when I run through Audyssey, then turning it back to 18Hz afterwards. Does the 3010 still have that tendency or should I leave the subsonic filter in place when I calibrate?

Also also, general question: With the 1007, a solid run-through of Audyssey XT takes 30 minutes at best. Is XT32 on the 3010 about the same as far as time, or is it a faster process now?
post #973 of 1066
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

Ummmm, yeah, I (and others, I'm assuming) are aware of the claims you just took quite a bit of time and enrgy re-listing. confused.gif None of them really strike me as particularly fantastic, and really, with some of them, very much plausible.

So you think you will be able to buy an AVR, based on a version of HDMI that has yet to even be approved, in the next 5 months? Really?
Quote:
You seem to be bizarrely obsessed with him revealing his identity and or "place" within his industry- long after he made it quite clear that both are barred from being compromised. This also is nothing new and a reality of thousands of industries.

HE brought it up. If HE did not want it talked about, HE should not have mentioned it. You are complaining to the wrong person...complain to the guy who essentially said "You must believe me because I am claiming something on the Internet that I refuse to support", not the one who laughed at him for expecting anyone to believe him.
Quote:
If you truly believe that a spec has to be "finalized" or available for public consumption before manu's are able to produce chips utilizing all or part of it you are sorely mistaken and apparently ignorant as to the history of a multitude of technologies- including the very one in question, here.

Of course companies can release non-compliant chips if they wish...many have done it in the past. None of the non-compliant chips can claim to be compliant, though. 802.11n as a prime example. HDMI 2.0 is rapidly approaching a year late (originally was to be released in second half 2012). As a manufacturer, would you bet your next AVR on an unreleased, and still being updated, spec?

Quote:
choose not to believe him, fine. But continuing to refute the same items over and over again looks like madness. He's not going to tell you who he is. He's not going to tell you who he works for. Let the next 5 months answer the balance.

James

You appear to be obsessed with telling me what I can and cannot post. Your own advice, you should take it. Expecting others to do as you say when you are not doing it is quite silly. BTW, I work closely with the Royal Family and know a lot of stuff that is about to happen but is being hidden, yet I cannot tell you any of it and you better not ever mention that I said such a thing in public. You believe me, right? Right?
Edited by cybrsage - 7/22/13 at 1:28pm
post #974 of 1066
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Anderson View Post

So, my 1007 gave up the ghost this week and I have a 3010 on the way to replace it. Currently, I'm running a SVS 20-39CS+ and a Buttkicker LFE off a Crown XLS-1500 in stereo mode with Sub out 1 and 2 feeding the pair. With the 1007, I've been running Audyssey with the Buttkicker side of the Crown turned all the way down, then after Audyssey, I change number of subs to 2 and use the channel trims to adjust the Buttkicker from the seats. Will this same method work with the 3010 or do I need to feed both sides of the Crown the same subwoofer output and tweak using the gain knobs instead?

It should work the same, or you can just unplug the buttkicker from the back of the 1500 so it does nothing.
Quote:
Also, I'm running an ART-351 EQ on the SVS side only as a subsonic filter. With past iterations of Audyssey, I know there has been a tendency to boost below 20Hz, so I have been disabling the subsonic filter when I run through Audyssey, then turning it back to 18Hz afterwards. Does the 3010 still have that tendency or should I leave the subsonic filter in place when I calibrate?

No idea.
Quote:
Also also, general question: With the 1007, a solid run-through of Audyssey XT takes 30 minutes at best. Is XT32 on the 3010 about the same as far as time, or is it a faster process now?

It took me about 15 minutes to run through all the positions and have it calculate the results. I suspect it will be about the same for you.
post #975 of 1066
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

It took me about 15 minutes to run through all the positions and have it calculate the results. I suspect it will be about the same for you.
How many channels were you running? I'm going to be running 9.1.
post #976 of 1066
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Anderson View Post

How many channels were you running? I'm going to be running 9.1.

9.2 with Front Heights. Make sure you do the firmware updates before doing anything with the AVR. I had issues with Audyssey that were fixed by doing the firmware update.
post #977 of 1066
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

9.2 with Front Heights. Make sure you do the firmware updates before doing anything with the AVR. I had issues with Audyssey that were fixed by doing the firmware update.
Yeah, that's the first thing on my list after I hook it up. Sadly, it isn't being delivered until Saturday. frown.gif
post #978 of 1066
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

So you think you will be able to buy an AVR, based on a version of HDMI that has yet to even be approved, in the next 5 months? Really?
HE brought it up. If HE did not want it talked about, HE should not have mentioned it. You are complaining to the wrong person...complain to the guy who essentially said "You must believe me because I am claiming something on the Internet that I refuse to support", not the one who laughed at him for expecting anyone to believe him.
Of course companies can release non-compliant chips if they wish...many have done it in the past. None of the non-compliant chips can claim to be compliant, though. 802.11n as a prime example. HDMI 2.0 is rapidly approaching a year late (originally was to be released in second half 2012). As a manufacturer, would you bet your next AVR on an unreleased, and still being updated, spec?
You appear to be obsessed with telling me what I can and cannot post. Your own advice, you should take it. Expecting others to do as you say when you are not doing it is quite silly. BTW, I work closely with the Royal Family and know a lot of stuff that is about to happen but is being hidden, yet I cannot tell you any of it and you better not ever mention that I said such a thing in public. You believe me, right? Right?

Not sure where you think you're getting with all this hyperbole...everything I stated still stands.

Yes, I think it's plausible that we'll see a 2.0 HDMI AVR by the end of the year. If you think they cannot have the schematic of this chip all-but finalized at this point and are simply waiting for the cementing of the spec to start production, I don't know what to tell you. Ditto for the reality that said production would ramp up to the thousands almost immediately, and yes, they could very well be inside AVRs in 3-4 months.

YES he brought up his position in the industry and then stated that he couldn't divulge deeper info. Only to have YOU specifically demand the aforementioned. "Must" believe me? Never read that anywhere, sorry. Again (sigh), you can choose to believe him or not. "Laughing" at him or going on about it accomplishes nothing but extending what you're purporting as "non truths". I'm confused again. Just let him lie or implement your "ignore" functionality.

I'm not speaking of "non compliant" chips. Again, you seem to be missing the big picture. Surely you understand that's not what's being proposed here? I won't speak for anything that Onkyo's "betting on" but again look at their track record of being THE AVR manu that stuffs their boxes full of bleeding edge tech. Believe what you need to believe yourself, no one here is forcing you to take a position one way or another.

Your royal family "analogy" is abysmal, by the way. There is a very specific prediction going on here that runs to the contrary of what most are expecting, not some goofy "something big is coming" arrow into the sea. Big distinction, then.

The fact that you cannot get over the reality that someone- like millions of others on the www- cannot disclose their identity is your own problem. I'm not telling you or anyone else what to post, but instead just asking to perhaps avoid texting the same thoughts over and over. And yes, I WILL take my own advice and this will be the end of my participation in this juvenile nonsense.

Again. Choose not to believe. Fine. Then when he's wrong you can return to this thread and beat your chest about how correct you were. I'm sure you'll return to do just the opposite if Onkyo walks on water (at least in your eyes, anyway) and is able to produce AVRs that will work with HDMI 2.0 by the end of the year.

I see it all the time on AVS. rolleyes.gif


James
Edited by mastermaybe - 7/23/13 at 6:03am
post #979 of 1066
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

The fact that you cannot get over the reality that someone- like millions of others on the www- cannot disclose their identity is your own problem. I'm not telling you or anyone else what to post...but instead just asking to perhaps avoid texting the same thoughts over and over. And yes, I WILL take my own advice and this will be the end of my participation in this juvenile nonsense.

Again. Choose not to believe. Fine. Then when he's wrong you can return to this thread and beat your chest about how correct you were. I'm sure you'll return to do just the opposite of Onkyo walks on water and is able to produce AVRs that will work with HDMI 2.0 by the end of the year.

I see it all the time on AVS.


James

James,

You still are obsessed with telling me what I can and cannot post. You obviously did not take the advice you proffered to me but at least you realize you are being juvenile by saying I should not reply to posts in order to correct silly statements made by others.. You can continue to rail against me not believing a random, anonymous, person on the Internet who claims to have super secret knowledge but cannot tell us about it because he cannot. You can choose to blindly believe what such people say if you like. When you tell me I should not correct their silly statements, you will find me correcting that silly statement made by you.


BTW, why would I beat my chest over the obvious? It would be like telling a member of the Flat Earth Society that the Earth is spherical and then beating my chest over being right about it.


EDIT: If you would actually like to help people instead of telling me what I should and should not post, that would be a welcome change.
Edited by cybrsage - 7/23/13 at 6:14am
post #980 of 1066
You're so off-base and irrelevant with that post I'll simply choose to disregard.



James
post #981 of 1066
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

And yes, I WILL take my own advice and this will be the end of my participation in this juvenile nonsense.

James

Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

You're so off-base and irrelevant with that post I'll simply choose to disregard.

James


So...when will you take your own advice as you claimed you would do? When will you actually post anything to help someone in this thread?
post #982 of 1066
So... if you guys can get back on track, what's the consensus as far as setting the sub level to 75dB for Audyssey on the 3010? I ask because I'm running my SVS off a Crown amp and I like to run it with the gain maxed out (though I don't know if the input sensitivity of pro amps is really an issue). On my 1007, this put post-Audyssey channel trim at around -8. I've combed through the last 10 or so pages of the thread and seen mention of the subwoofer sounding weak post-calibration if you dial your sub back to 75dB. Any advice on that?
post #983 of 1066
I would set it to 75dB, run audyssey, then bump it up to where you like it afterwards. That way you know you get a proper room adjustment done and then you can change it as desired to your personal tastes. I left mine where they were and feel I have good bass - but I have two subwoofers so I do not know if that makes a difference.

Waiting for Saturday is a killer, isn't it? Looking forward to hearing your impressions.
post #984 of 1066
This isn't the thread for debating HDMI 2.0. You're both off topic. Kindly take this discussion to the appropriate thread, or start a new one, please? Thank you.
Edited by GlassWolf - 7/24/13 at 11:30am
post #985 of 1066
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

I would set it to 75dB, run audyssey, then bump it up to where you like it afterwards. That way you know you get a proper room adjustment done and then you can change it as desired to your personal tastes. I left mine where they were and feel I have good bass - but I have two subwoofers so I do not know if that makes a difference.
I didn't mean it as a matter of changing reference level of the sub, especially with Dynamic EQ involved. I definitely don't want to do that. But it seems like people are having to reduce gain quite a bit to hit that initial 75dB target for the calibration. PLUS (the bigger question) since I'm using a pro amp to power my sub and it has a different input sensitivity, I wonder if doing that limits the maximum output of the amp.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

Waiting for Saturday is a killer, isn't it? Looking forward to hearing your impressions.
You have no idea... I pulled the 1007 out of the rack tonight and cleaned up my wiring a bit in preparation, and it's killing me not having my living room setup. My DVR is just racking up TV shows in the meantime, and I'm having to play Xbox on my computer monitor (which just doesn't compare to 100" projection screen and 9.1 surround). C'mon Saturday!
post #986 of 1066
Question for 3010 owners who have run MultEQ XT32 and have a SPL meter: Post-calibration, are the internal tones reading at 75dB like they normally should? Just got my 3010 and have run Audyssey twice... and after it sets the channel trims, I check them with my SPL meter and they're all at 83dB instead of 75. I checked because I thought it sounded abnormally loud at my normal listening level compared to my previous 1007. I also double-checked by disabling Dynamic EQ, setting to -10dB from reference and playing the test tones on the AIX Sampler disc which should read 75dB with that setting... but are reading 83dB just like the test tones.

I'm worried that maybe something weird is going on here, like a bad mic. I updated to the latest firmware via USB before calibrating.
post #987 of 1066
Disregard the previous message. I'm pretty sure I have a bad calibration mic. During the first part of calibration where you set subwoofer level, when it reads 75dB on the screen, my SPL meter reads 83dB. I took the Audyssey mic that came with my 1007 and tried the same test... On-screen reading is 83dB, meter reads 83dB. Looks like I need to contact Onkyo for a new mic.

In the meantime, do you think the two mics are similar enough to calibrate the 3010 with the 1007's mic? The 1007 only had MultEQ XT and the 3010 has XT32, but I can't imagine the frequency response of the two mics are that different. And at least I know that the 1007's mic meshes with my calibrated SPL meter.
post #988 of 1066
If you have the model numbers of both mics you can contact Audyssey and ask they - they are pretty quick with responding. They probably will even know if you just give them the AVR model numbers. You can also try posting the question in the audyssey thread, someone in there probably knows.
post #989 of 1066
If the 1007 mic is the ACM1H then it is compatible with the current ACM1HB used on the 3010 and can be used to calibrate any of the newer Onkyo models regardless of the version of Audyssey in use.
post #990 of 1066
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

If the 1007 mic is the ACM1H then it is compatible with the current ACM1HB used on the 3010 and can be used to calibrate any of the newer Onkyo models regardless of the version of Audyssey in use.
The one that came with the 1007 doesn't have a model number printed on it... but it looks identical to the ACM1H other than being silver instead of black. I did a run through with it and it sounds pretty good, but I did post on Onkyo's support forums to see if they can send me a new mic.
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