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LED/LCD to Replace VT50 - Page 2

post #31 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by rr330i View Post

I have a Panny G25. After 10 months of trouble free use, my son left the cartoon network on pause for a few hours... maybe up to 6.
Now I have CN logo burned in to my screen. It's been there for over 6 months, and wont go away.
Panny basically told me to take a hike.mad.gif
For those that don't know the logo... here it is.
286

that really sucks... was the set using very bright picture settings at the time it occurred?

honestly, though, leaving a static image on a plasma for six hours would be considered abuse (though I admit LCD owners wouldn't have to worry about such things)
post #32 of 66
And that was my biggest fear with plasma - one accident - maybe you were exhausted and fell asleep and the cable box freezes, your kid leaves it on pause like that when you're not around, etc. - and that's what can happen. Scary. With LCD you don't have to worry. Plasmas just require too much care and maintenance. You have to treat them gently. I know different people have different experiences, but rr330i is an unfortunate example of how easy it is to damage the screen with one mistake. Heck CNET had the misfortune of the same thing happening a couple weeks ago and posted a story about it - breaking in 2 Pannys and 1 Sammy and the image froze overnight - the next day, both Pannys had the image etched on the screen. The Sammy fared much better. But then the same thing happened again and at that point they just sent the Panny back for a replacement for review, since it was now unsuitable for a review.
post #33 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

that really sucks... was the set using very bright picture settings at the time it occurred?
honestly, though, leaving a static image on a plasma for six hours would be considered abuse (though I admit LCD owners wouldn't have to worry about such things)

This G25 had settings pulled from this site, and iirc, from tweak tv... a combination of both.
It was far from bright. I must have told my boys every other day not to pause shows on this TV, and if you do shut the TV off.
My wife had been told and heard me more than enough times. But accidents do happen, especially w/ small kids around.
This is my 4th Panasonic Plasma. I have 2 42PX80U from 2006, 1 42S from the end of 2008and the G25 from end of 2010.
One of the PX80s was used in a den setting, and had alot of 4:3 format used on it, and that can be faintly seen on the tv still(but its now in my daughter(13) room, and she can't notice.

The good news is that the CN logo can only be seen if you really look for it. The kids can't watch that channel anymore on this set since i blocked it on my Cable Box. I even went on to send a letter to Cartoon Network, letting them know what their logo is doing... sure it fell on deaf ears.

And the most important bit... this is just the TV in my den and is only used for casual tv watching as I have a PJ set up for watching movies and anything i 'really' want to watch. If the G25 was my main set for enjoying feature events... I'd really be upset.
Edited by rr330i - 7/9/12 at 11:00am
post #34 of 66
I have a friend looking for 2 new TV's.
One in his Den which is for main viewing, and one for his bedroom.
He'll be sitting 15-17ft from either, and wants 60".
IMO, although i like the ST, GT and VT for this, which he could get for his 2000budget, i think he'd be better off w/ Samsung 6100 series and higher. For the average AV'er its more than good enough to watch 'American Idol', some Cinemax shows, and the occasional movie(most likely streamed).
post #35 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by rr330i View Post

This G25 had settings pulled from this site, and iirc, from tweak tv... a combination of both.
It was far from bright. I must have told my boys every other day not to pause shows on this TV, and if you do shut the TV off.
My wife had been told and heard me more than enough times. But accidents do happen, especially w/ small kids around.
This is my 4th Panasonic Plasma. I have 2 42PX80U from 2006, 1 42S from the end of 2008and the G25 from end of 2010.
One of the PX80s was used in a den setting, and had alot of 4:3 format used on it, and that can be faintly seen on this tv still(but its now in my daugher(13) room, and she can't notice.
The good news is that the CN logo can only be seen if you really look for it. The kids can't watch that channel anymore on this set since i blocked it on my Cable Box. I even went on to send a letter to Cartoon Network, letting them know what their logo is doing... sure it fell on deaf ears.
And the most important bit... this is just the TV in my den and is only used for casual tv watching as I have a PJ set up for watching movies and anything i 'really' want to watch. If the G25 was my main set for enjoying feature events... I'd really be upset.

Do any plasma sets come with a built-in screen saver when the same image is left on the screen for too long (such as pausing a TV show)? Maybe the Samsungs?
post #36 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

Do any plasma sets come with a built-in screen saver when the same image is left on the screen for too long (such as pausing a TV show)? Maybe the Samsungs?

Panasonics, under "ECO" settings can be set to shut down automatically if no input from the remote or side panel controls occurs for 3 hours. An onscreen shut down warning will appear before this happens in case you're just watching a very long movie. This feature is off by default so you have to hunt for it to turn it on. I doubt if 3 hours is enough time to permanently burn in a screen, especially if the set's not in all-out torch mode
post #37 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve S View Post

Panasonics, under "ECO" settings can be set to shut down automatically if no input from the remote or side panel controls occurs for 3 hours. An onscreen shut down warning will appear before this happens in case you're just watching a very long movie. This feature is off by default so you have to hunt for it to turn it on. I doubt if 3 hours is enough time to permanently burn in a screen, especially if the set's not in all-out torch mode

I think Samsung has a similar feature on all their TVs (LED-LCD, CCFL-LCD, and Plasma) since the LN32D550 I used have had it. With such features, burn-in could be automatically prevented.

On a side note, when CRT based technologies were popular, did people complain about IR and burn-in as much? I know still to this day video game manuals include warnings about burn-in as do all TV manuals (though LCDs rarely have burn-in type issues).
post #38 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

I think Samsung has a similar feature on all their TVs (LED-LCD, CCFL-LCD, and Plasma) since the LN32D550 I used have had it. With such features, burn-in could be automatically prevented.
On a side note, when CRT based technologies were popular, did people complain about IR and burn-in as much? I know still to this day video game manuals include warnings about burn-in as do all TV manuals (though LCDs rarely have burn-in type issues).

Possible on direct-view crt sets especially if you ran them with the contrast too high. CRT based rear projection was much more prone to burn-in than direct-view, even more so than older plasmas and definitely more so than current plasmas.
The (usually 7") crt "guns" ran extremely bright in order to be able to project an image visible in a lit room and thus the phosphors worked very hard indeed, to the extent that the guns were actually liquid cooled. Damage to these sets prompted the warnings on video games long before plasmas became anything common.

That bieng said I owned 2 different crt based rptvs and played games on them and used them for WebTV (primitive web-browsing device sold in the late 90s that used standard tv sets) monitors for hours on end with no burn-in. Secret was to never run the contrast over 40-50% and never freeze frame anything overnight.

On another note, many Sony lcd sets have an eco feature that uses a motiion sensor on the front of the set that will shut off the tv if nobody moves in front of the set for a user-selectable period of time. Occasionally when playing video games and only moving my fingers on the controls my EX710 will flash the shut-down warning. I think this would be ideal for plasma sets that might get left on inadvertently.
post #39 of 66
You Plasma Pundits are a hoot. Even in a thread titled "LED/LCD to Replace VT50" you have to go on and on about 'superior Plasma performance' but also how they need to be handled with kid gloves or you'll get 'burn-in' or at least 'image retention'...Even going so far as calling watching SD or (heaven forbid) FaceBook for a couple hours 'abuse'...To the OP: Based on what I've read in this thread, I'd have to honestly say any LED/LCD would be a good replacement for a Plasma. eek.gif
post #40 of 66
Well to be fair every TV is a compromise of some sort. Some would rather live with Plasma's shortcomings (and there are quite a few shortcomings) to get the best possible picture. While others can make do with the drop in overall PQ and limited viewing angles not to be bothered with Plasmas. I have 3 LCDs in my house and 1 plasma and I'd love to go all-LCD. Power consumption alone made me itch to try out a few LCDs in the last few years to replace my Plasma but none of them could match the PQ and viewing angles (which is important to some, myself included). The only LCDs that came close to matching my plasma were the Elite and the HX929 and even those have some serious compromises attached, not to mention their exorbitant relative price.
post #41 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by olyteddy View Post

To the OP: Based on what I've read in this thread, I'd have to honestly say any LED/LCD would be a good replacement for a Plasma. eek.gif

not a terribly helpful post

whatever happened to rational discussions where actual pros/cons of both technologies are mentioned?
post #42 of 66
I think the one TV that's on the horizon that might compete with the VT50 is the Sharp 60"/70" 945 series. It's supposed to be essentially a Sharp-branded Elite that's cheaper (full array with local dimming). I'm personally excited to see its release and hopeful that it'll be competitively priced. I'm going to hold off my TV purchase till August; Sharp better stick to the summer 2012 release. Hope they knock it out of the park with the 945.
post #43 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

not a terribly helpful post
whatever happened to rational discussions where actual pros/cons of both technologies are mentioned?
Actually, given the OPs question, and given the number of Plasma horror stories that ensued, I think it's a fine and helpful post. I for one would not want a set that could be irreparably damaged by merely watching I Love Lucy, cartoons or using the internet. I mean, where is that 'superior PQ' when you have a pink 'Cartoon Network' bug staring you in the face? I for one find LED backlit sets the superior technology because they don't need to be handled with kid gloves or left running for hours or days showing snow to eliminate the by-product of watching a Lucy marathon. rolleyes.gif
post #44 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by olyteddy View Post

Actually, given the OPs question, and given the number of Plasma horror stories that ensued, I think it's a fine and helpful post. I for one would not want a set that could be irreparably damaged by merely watching I Love Lucy, cartoons or using the internet. I mean, where is that 'superior PQ' when you have a pink 'Cartoon Network' bug staring you in the face? I for one find LED backlit sets the superior technology because they don't need to be handled with kid gloves or left running for hours or days showing snow to eliminate the by-product of watching a Lucy marathon. rolleyes.gif

It's not a issue for everyone and to those who are more cautious with their viewing habits, there are reasons to get plasma over LED/LCDs. Let's not forget that most of us were watching CRTs for a long time before flat-panel TVs came out.
post #45 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

It's not a issue for everyone and to those who are more cautious with their viewing habits, there are reasons to get plasma over LED/LCDs. Let's not forget that most of us were watching CRTs for a long time before flat-panel TVs came out.
Our first color set was an RCA with a round tube. What does that have to do with anything? I agree there must be some perceived advantage to Plasma. I gather the lightbulbs in your living room last longer because Plasma should be watched in a darkened room but that is offset by its higher power consumption. I maintain that IR is real, why even the 'Pros' have had trouble with it: http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57449881-221/samsung-plasma-wins-cnets-accidental-burn-in-test/. I bought a TV to watch how I want, when I want. Not to coddle.
post #46 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

It's not a issue for everyone and to those who are more cautious with their viewing habits, there are reasons to get plasma over LED/LCDs. Let's not forget that most of us were watching CRTs for a long time before flat-panel TVs came out.

What does watching CRT's previously have to do with LCD technology??? I watched CRT tvs for many years. As a matter of fact I went from a 65" Hitachi RPTV which I owned for 7 years, to a 70" Sharp LCD tv and find I love the Sharp tv far more than my old CRT. Personally, I would find Image Retention on Plasma tvs, or worrying about what program to watch or not watch due to burn in possibilities to be totally unacceptable. Personally, I find PQ on the Sharp to be excellent, even in bright daylight viewing conditions. To each his own.
post #47 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by olyteddy View Post

Our first color set was an RCA with a round tube. What does that have to do with anything? I agree there must be some perceived advantage to Plasma. I gather the lightbulbs in your living room last longer because Plasma should be watched in a darkened room but that is offset by its higher power consumption. I maintain that IR is real, why even the 'Pros' have had trouble with it: http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57449881-221/samsung-plasma-wins-cnets-accidental-burn-in-test/. I bought a TV to watch how I want, when I want. Not to coddle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pds3 View Post

What does watching CRT's previously have to do with LCD technology??? I watched CRT tvs for many years. As a matter of fact I went from a 65" Hitachi RPTV which I owned for 7 years, to a 70" Sharp LCD tv and find I love the Sharp tv far more than my old CRT. Personally, I would find Image Retention on Plasma tvs, or worrying about what program to watch or not watch due to burn in possibilities to be totally unacceptable. Personally, I find PQ on the Sharp to be excellent, even in bright daylight viewing conditions. To each his own.

I'm saying that CRT has similar issues and back then people were still able to enjoy their TVs and avoid burn-in if they didn't use overly bright picture settings and/or leave static elements on the screen for prolonged periods of time. I'll admit I like the ability to not have to worry about such things as a LCD owner, but I do have a older plasma that is still going strong and has never had persistent IR or burn-in despite being broken-in in torch mode and being used for extensive gaming and watching 2:35:1 aspect ratio movies with 1:1 pixel mapping always engaged for all sources. Of course, I use a calibrated Cinema mode now and never leave static elements on screen for more than 2-3 hours.
post #48 of 66
If you're going to replace your plasma with a LED lit LCD the one question I would ask is do I go edge lit or full array non local dimming. While edge lit is more common they also seem to suffer more from ghosting and screen uniformity than their full array brethren.
post #49 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

I'm saying that CRT has similar issues and back then people were still able to enjoy their TVs and avoid burn-in if they didn't use overly bright picture settings and/or leave static elements on the screen for prolonged periods of time. I'll admit I like the ability to not have to worry about such things as a LCD owner, but I do have a older plasma that is still going strong and has never had persistent IR or burn-in despite being broken-in in torch mode and being used for extensive gaming and watching 2:35:1 aspect ratio movies with 1:1 pixel mapping always engaged for all sources. Of course, I use a calibrated Cinema mode now and never leave static elements on screen for more than 2-3 hours.

Many people did have gigantic burn in issues with CRT RPTVs. Especially those that watched a lot of short screen movies on their sets. They ended up with uneven phosphor wear which was easily seen when switching back to a full screen picture. (the screen ended up looking like one of the old cinerama screens that were divided into three parts). As for you not having burn in issues, I would say that you were one of the lucky ones. I suggest you read the sticky thread on Burn In/ Image Retention in the Plasma threads. You will find many unhappy campers with severe IR and burn in. I guess it's no big issue until it happens to your set.
post #50 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

If you're going to replace your plasma with a LED lit LCD the one question I would ask is do I go edge lit or full array non local dimming. While edge lit is more common they also seem to suffer more from ghosting and screen uniformity than their full array brethren.
The full array models are certainly the best, but incredibly expensive - only a few models are of that type now.
The great majority and reasonable priced LED models are of course edge-lit.
post #51 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joxer View Post

The full array models are certainly the best, but incredibly expensive - only a few models are of that type now.
The great majority and reasonable priced LED models are of course edge-lit.

there is always the Samsung EH series, which a full array non local dimming TV at a value price point (and it comes it many screen sizes all the way up to 65")
post #52 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

there is always the Samsung EH series, which a full array non local dimming TV at a value price point (and it comes it many screen sizes all the way up to 65")
Yes the new EH series look good and reportedly have no or less flashlighting/clouding than the edge lit models.
Samsung does have out a new EH model with 3D (6070) but it doesn't have Smart TV (internet apps) features.
Also the EH models this year only have 2HDMI ports, the ES models have 3HDMI ports.
Have to get an ES model to get both 3D and Smart TV features and at least 3HDMI like the Panasonic ST50,GT50,VT50s.
post #53 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joxer View Post

Yes the new EH series look good and reportedly have no or less flashlighting/clouding than the edge lit models.
Samsung does have out a new EH model with 3D (6070) but it doesn't have Smart TV (internet apps) features.
Also the EH models this year only have 2HDMI ports, the ES models have 3HDMI ports.
Have to get an ES model to get both 3D and Smart TV features and at least 3HDMI like the Panasonic ST50,GT50,VT50s.

also the EH series (including 6000 and higher) lack 10-pt white balance and CMS... but the ES6100 series and higher have both
post #54 of 66
How come noone mentions th Sony HX929 LCD/LED, which as far as I know is amoung the best out there with full array and local dimming? Although very pricey, isn't that the closest match to plasma that LCD/LED can offer with regards to blacklevels etc?
post #55 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by improwise View Post

How come noone mentions th Sony HX929 LCD/LED, which as far as I know is amoung the best out there with full array and local dimming? Although very pricey, isn't that the closest match to plasma that LCD/LED can offer with regards to blacklevels etc?

The HX929 is great but it's a 2011 model and stocks are all but depleted. In Canada for example, there are essentially no more 65HX929 left except for a few here and there and mostly display units, there are some stocks of the 55 but even those are starting to short. New XBR models coming (some say very soon, others say it's a fall release). IMO, unless you can get the 929 for a lot less than MSRP, the better choice is to way for the new models.
post #56 of 66
Get either the Sharp Elite or Sony HX929 or LG LHX/LH95
post #57 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joxer View Post

Have you aged the VT50 for over 100 hours first?
The IR is quick in the first 100 hours I heard, but doesn't happen much after that.
I've also considered the Samsung ES6500,ES7100, ES8000 though they are expensive for the higher end models. I've read reports of flashlighting and clouding on blacks however, so I would be concerned about that - its the nature of the edge LED backlighting.
Samsung I found has just recently come out with a less expensive model however that has behind the screen LED lighting (not the edges) so it is a thicker panel, but might have far less if any flashlighting - its the EH6070 I believe. Only has 2 HDMI ports compared to the edge-lit models that have 3, and it has 3D but no smart TV functions. That model does however come with a Samsung 3D blu-ray player bundled in that does have Smart/internet functions.

Do you know any more info on the eh6070? I know BB and some retailers sell it but it's never on display. I'm interested in it mainly because it's direct-lit and not edge. I had the 50eh6000 but it had a strange purple/violet undertone to the picture that I didn't fancy too much. Plus the 6070 has a different bezel from what I can see from the pictures on the net. EH6000 has a 3/4 inch extension that hangs below the bezel with Samsung logo which looks kind of cheap to me. Any more info on the 6070 would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
post #58 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

also the EH series (including 6000 and higher) lack 10-pt white balance and CMS... but the ES6100 series and higher have both

All of the ES models suffer greatly from flashlighting and/or backlight-bleed. Even the ES8000.
post #59 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Sullins View Post

All of the ES models suffer greatly from flashlighting and/or backlight-bleed. Even the ES8000.

Not ALL ES models GREATLY suffer from those issues.

I've had my 55ES7100 for awhile now and after dialing in the settings, those conditions are basically non existent. Which ES model do you own?
post #60 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by EAnglum View Post

Not ALL ES models GREATLY suffer from those issues.
I've had my 55ES7100 for awhile now and after dialing in the settings, those conditions are basically non existent. Which ES model do you own?

I owned the ES6100 for a week but returned because the colors seemed to washed out and flashlighting was very distracting. My brother-in-law owns the ES8000 and it has very bad flashlighting. He's had it professionally calibrated and although it's not as bad as it was it's still there. I'm glad yours is fine but for the most part all the ES Models have some issues with screen-uniformity.
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