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The Official Quested LT Series Thread - Page 3

post #61 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

If you read through my posts I did say in the beginning that the speakers when new were showing their pedigree. Ie sonic signature. After break in it all goes out the window and you can very easily confuse these for Esotars, which are totally non metallic sounding.

I think with improved ribbon drivers available and better crossovers (designers), gone are the days where ribbon offered their unique signtaure and you had to keep your head in a vice wink.gif.

I have never heard these new speakers so I will not speculate on their sonics unlike others tongue.gif
post #62 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by cannga View Post

You have presumed wrong.

Then your previous posts contradict typical feedback from those who have extensively heard speaker brands I mention. I have also owned the speaker brands in my system to question your curious impression about ribbons.
post #63 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by cannga View Post

For example, the Quested model that matches 10 inch woofer with the tweeter might have a hole in the middle where treble crosses over to bass, so you may like the one with 8 inch woofer better than 10...

From the pictures it looks like the LT-10 uses a larger ribbon than the LT-8 with a pesumably lower XO freq, so it could go either way.
post #64 of 115
The Quested have arrived, thank you again Roger for sending, and thanks to Curt and Peter for assisting in arranging.
post #65 of 115
Thread Starter 
Great.

Remember to burn them in for a day and a half, and do report.
post #66 of 115
Peter

The build quality on these speakers are A-1, phenomenal. If they sound anything like they look....They are extremely solid.
post #67 of 115
Dear Peter,

I would also like to thank you for showing me the light and guiding me in this direction. It was your initial report about the Quested LT series that peaked my interest. It has been nothing but a fun ride ever since...

I went full out and got an 3-way active LT20 setup, that also kind of inspired Norman ;-)

One thing is special: I am using IIR and FIR based digital XOs (software based running JRiver MC, Acourate/Audiolense...), going out to 2 daisy chained Prism Orpheus units for 16 active outputs. I am using Quested/MC2 AP2800 (bass drivers), AP950 (mids) and Parasound JC-1s for the AMTs.
This gives me full flexibility but also is very challenging because I basically have to come up with my own XO design.

May I ask you for your experience regarding LT20 XO design? I assume you did quite a bit of optimizing yourself. Which exact XO frequencies did you end up with? Did you use standard Linkwitz Riley 24db, or another slope/order? What did you use for driver time alignment - delays or phase adjustment?

Thanks so much again - you did a marvelous job building a great setup around the LTs, with many more to come hopefully.

Take care,
Walter
post #68 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG View Post

Peter

The build quality on these speakers are A-1, phenomenal. If they sound anything like they look....They are extremely solid.

Great. Looking forward to your thoughts and Curt's findings... I assume he;s going to dial in for this?

Great stuff!
post #69 of 115
Yes Curt is dialed in
post #70 of 115
Hey Lon... Any initial impressions?
post #71 of 115
Jeff:

My initial thoughts are the LT-8's are very good surround speakers, the only issue I am having is integrating them with the Aerials, they are a different sounding speaker. I will be finished by Sunday. If I were buying all new speakers and pairing them with the LT10 or LT20's instead of my Aerials it would be much simpler.
post #72 of 115
Ideally all speakers should be timbre matched, surround sound 101!

One way is to EQ the direct, on axis sound...that gets them spectrally identical but maybe not in the time domain. Then you have the conundum that the off axis response will likely be very different, and also mayb eby EQing the speakers to be similar on axis you have made things more dissimilar off axis.

Since what we hear is a combination of direct + early reflections + late reflections really all the speakers need to have been designed for similar timbre from the beginning, or you need to get lucky.
post #73 of 115
Peter,

Tell me, what is the difference between the air motion tweeter (on the LT-10 / LT-20) and the sandwich tweeter on the LT-8?
Timbrally I assume they're close but what's the difference?

Thanks!
post #74 of 115
Thread Starter 
Hehe,

I am glad you asked.

Well the short answer, because according to Roger (the criteria for the driver selection in the short/mid/far field speaker design process) could take up to a week to explain, is:

They are 2 different technologies the lt-8 ribbon pushes the air in a way more optimal to the near field conditions of the surround channels of a small screening room. Let's call it near field "sound blooming point".
The air motion tweeter Squeezes the air out much farther out to a 4-5 meter "sound blooming point", and beyond. IOW if you had a large cinema he would use air motion transducers throughout on all channels.
Roger required front channel technology that would not blow up as he found out happened when in Hollywood they took his dome based Music Scoring monitors and then tried to implement them in Mixing Theaters.
In addition to punch through a perforated screen requires that narrower dispersion and focused power. So the selection of drivers is based on achieving a system that holistically integrates well together. He found out that tonally the LT-8 ribbon's "blooming point" (my term) when used in the surround near-field position does match more closer to the Air Motion transducer's timbre whilst the AMT are at the mid far field position, than the domes. So he tested dome tweeters for the surround channels and he could not get them to integrate as well with the front amt's. The ribbons where engineered to look similar to the amt as an industrial design consistency. That part worked, the fact that there were two different tweeter technologies flew under my radar, until you asked just now. That is why am glad you asked.biggrin.gif

I am so jaded over the years with the surround sound options out there, dynaudio blow ups, meridian tweeter blowups. genelec/procella boxiness, horn harshness, etc. and etc. that when I went in with Quested I was very skeptical. Once I heard the results I have been floored. I can 100% confirm that Rogers driver design decisions do yield a superior loudspeaker surround system that in an imperfect world steam rolls over anything else out there.

I know many consider me as the best video guy (can't say i blame you there wink.gif), yet I have not necessarily been known to be a top audio guru, yet my instincts in multi-channel sound did not prove me wrong, and let's face it , my contempt for 2 channel audiophilia and faith that there was light at the end of the multi-channel tunnel have paid off. Since age 19 then as a musician I have been pursuing multi-channel nirvana, it has been an unnecessarily bumpy road, I believe the incredible results at Albiorix have placed me atop the multi-channel systems designer/installer's heap, I submit that it was not all random luck as some may assume, but instead submit that this is the end result of perhaps a good trained ear and focused due diligence (one that the entire global battalion of home theater apparatchiks could not even come close to conceive). I instinctively picked up on a sound track: DESPICABLE ME: FUN FUN FUN and I reverse tracked back to Quested and requested that same mastering room near field performance but at a far field. It is brilliant! I know. So I do take full credit - thank you, If I can blow my horn a bit biggrin.gif

Having access to every high end brand out there, for precision, realistic, synergistic high end screening room multi-channel there is simply no other option, diamond coated woofers set aside. But the fun just starts, the best part is that Quested +Atmos is going to be the 21st century standard for quality sound at home or public venue.

Jeff regarding your question, now knowing what I have learned that I am not sure that there is much benefit to listening to the lt-8's at front channel positions if say over 2-3 meters away, it is simply not the right speaker for it , you would need the lt-10's. When you listen to the lt-8's do so in the surround positions for which the speaker is made.

Cheers!
Edited by CINERAMAX - 12/16/13 at 8:18am
post #75 of 115

Very interesting Peter...

 

I guess if I had read for detail I would have seen the reference to a ribbon in the LT-8.  At first blush, the LT-8 looked to me like it has one of the Mundorf AMT units in it, or something like it, and I assumed it was an AMT.  Thanks for pointing that out.

 

I would agree that you would be much better off with the LT-10's for LCR positions as well, regardless the distance.  The AMT's are more efficient, move more air, and have all the nuance of a ribbon.

 

Do you have any experience comparing the LT-10's with the Adam Audio GTC 77 or GTC 88?  I was considering the GTC 77's or 88's for a smaller room.

 

The LT-10's remind me of the old ESS AMT 1's and I'm sure they are much more refined.  I think you're really on to something here Peter.  IMHO there is nothing that can approach accuracy in sound reproduction as well as an AMT or ribbon can.

post #76 of 115
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by b curry View Post

Very interesting Peter...

I guess if I had read for detail I would have seen the reference to a ribbon in the LT-8.  At first blush, the LT-8 looked to me like it has one of the Mundorf AMT units in it, or something like it, and I assumed it was an AMT.  Thanks for pointing that out.

I would agree that you would be much better off with the LT-10's for LCR positions as well, regardless the distance.  The AMT's are more efficient, move more air, and have all the nuance of a ribbon.

Do you have any experience comparing the LT-10's with the Adam Audio GTC 77 or GTC 88?  I was considering the GTC 77's or 88's for a smaller room.

The LT-10's remind me of the old ESS AMT 1's and I'm sure they are much more refined.  I think you're really on to something here Peter.  IMHO there is nothing that can approach accuracy in sound reproduction as well as an AMT or ribbon can.

Hehe, No, lets thank Jeff who pointed it out.

I did hear the adams in cedia 2010 and did enjoy them, although they were a smaller model up on a bookshelf GTC55?.

I did not like the steinway system that I flew to the Beverly Hills design center to listen to, the sound stayed behind the microperf where it ricocheted back and forth back there instead of punching through into the theater.

So maybe ribbons are not good for lcr and adam and quested amt (that squezes the air rather than push it is what is needed).Thanks!
post #77 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

Hehe, No, lets thank Jeff who pointed it out.

I did hear the adams in cedia 2010 and did enjoy them, although they were a smaller model up on a bookshelf GTC55?.

I did not like the steinway system that I flew to the Beverly Hills design center to listen to, the sound stayed behind the microperf where it ricocheted back and forth back there instead of punching through into the theater.

So maybe ribbons are not good for lcr and adam and quested amt (that squezes the air rather than push it is what is needed).Thanks!

Which is strange because the Steinways use AMTs http://www.steinwaylyngdorf.com/technology-and-innovation/air-motion-transformer ....still drivers aren't everything, as I've guess you've proven to yourself! There is crossover design, enclosure and the rest of the good stuff.
post #78 of 115
Many people are using AMTs now because the patent expired....GoldenEar, Martin Logan (ElectroMotion), Adam Audio, Quested, Steinway-Lyngdorf, Tetra, Vapor Audio (Arcus).

It used to be only Mundorf were making the drivers now there are a bunch of companies making them.

The original ESS drivers had horrible off axis performance, I think the new ones are much better.
post #79 of 115
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyal Mellor View Post

Which is strange because the Steinways use AMTs http://www.steinwaylyngdorf.com/technology-and-innovation/air-motion-transformer ....still drivers aren't everything, as I've guess you've proven to yourself! There is crossover design, enclosure and the rest of the good stuff.

Insert foot in Mouth...swallow. Thanks! Could it be that they were tall line arrays?
Edited by CINERAMAX - 12/16/13 at 8:40pm
post #80 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

Hehe,

I am glad you asked...

Jeff regarding your question, now knowing what I have learned that I am not sure that there is much benefit to listening to the lt-8's at front channel positions if say over 2-3 meters away, it is simply not the right speaker for it , you would need the lt-10's. When you listen to the lt-8's do so in the surround positions for which the speaker is made.

Cheers!

Gotcha. I'm planning on LT10s up front front for LCRs but am wondering if the LT8s will do OK for height channels as I am about 4 meters back and the screen is perforated. LT-10s would be very large for my heights.// Aren't you using LT-8s behind a perf screen? What kind of SPLs did Curt get at the listening position.

Thanks!
post #81 of 115
Thread Starter 
If you can squeeze it I would try to get the Lt-10's also as height channels (horizontally), and the 3 left center rights I would get them vertical driver aligned : centered, all Lt-10's

Why? Because it is very obvious that movies that have been mixed in hi channel count formats like OZ in Auro (see video demo on another thread where in addition to opening up sideways the whole ceiling opens up with sound) and WWZ and Ironman 3 which throw a whole bunch of stuff over your head when remapping with trinnov the 7.1 signal using the lt-10's.

I am not saying is exactly like Atmos but certainly sounds like the first iterations of auro I heard. You will hear $h1T flying overhead, I am afraid the lt-8's do not have the punch trough momentum of the lt-10s at 4 meters.

When watching these movies through the trinov height channels the system is able to extract much ambient overhead data and not in a subtle way, so keep it like that biggrin.gif (not subtle).biggrin.gif
post #82 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post


Hehe, No, lets thank Jeff who pointed it out.
 

 

Thank you Jeff! :)

post #83 of 115
What is actually changed in the Quested speaker to orient it for horizontal vs vertical placement? The LT8's will be sent tomorrow to Curt for evaluation.
post #84 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

If you can squeeze it I would try to get the Lt-10's also as height channels (horizontally), and the 3 left center rights I would get them vertical driver aligned : centered, all Lt-10's

Why? Because it is very obvious that movies that have been mixed in hi channel count formats like OZ in Auro (see video demo on another thread where in addition to opening up sideways the whole ceiling opens up with sound) and WWZ and Ironman 3 which throw a whole bunch of stuff over your head when remapping with trinnov the 7.1 signal using the lt-10's.

I am not saying is exactly like Atmos but certainly sounds like the first iterations of auro I heard. You will hear $h1T flying overhead, I am afraid the lt-8's do not have the punch trough momentum of the lt-10s at 4 meters.

When watching these movies through the trinov height channels the system is able to extract much ambient overhead data and not in a subtle way, so keep it like that biggrin.gif (not subtle).biggrin.gif

Crap, I don't even know if I have the room t for 5 LT10s up front! I'm going to test the LT8s behind the screen and see how they come up. I was planning on LT10s for LCRs but my space is very limited up high behind the screen as the ceiling slopes downward and there is a lot of baffle wall bracing up high (and low).... We'll see!
post #85 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Crap, I don't even know if I have the room t for 5 LT10s up front! I'm going to test the LT8s behind the screen and see how they come up. I was planning on LT10s for LCRs but my space is very limited up high behind the screen as the ceiling slopes downward and there is a lot of baffle wall bracing up high (and low).... We'll see!

I think you could also timbre match dissimilar heights to the mains especially within the same speaker family? Does the Trinnov offer full independent EQ of each speaker output?
post #86 of 115
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post

I think you could also timbre match dissimilar heights to the mains especially within the same speaker family? Does the Trinnov offer full independent EQ of each speaker output?

Oh yes very much, throretically even dissimilar speakers at specific listening positions, not standing up and moving your head around the chair but at seated positions yes with dissimilar.

Jeff here is the picture of how we mounted the lt-8's they are covered by guilford fr-701 which you can compare its graph against the microperf.

post #87 of 115
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG View Post

What is actually changed in the Quested speaker to orient it for horizontal vs vertical placement? The LT8's will be sent tomorrow to Curt for evaluation.

Hi Lon these speakers can be ordered vertical for lcr functionality, it is not a matter of just flipping them sideways I want the tweeter center aligned to the woofer.

post #88 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

Oh yes very much, throretically even dissimilar speakers at specific listening positions, not standing up and moving your head around the chair but at seated positions yes with dissimilar.

Jeff here is the picture of how we mounted the lt-8's they are covered by guilford fr-701 which you can compare its graph against the microperf.


Peter,

Aren't the LT-8 heights behind the screen in your install?
post #89 of 115
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Peter,

Aren't the LT-8 heights behind the screen in your install?





no those are lt-10s.
Edited by CINERAMAX - 12/17/13 at 4:30pm
post #90 of 115
Got it. Thanks!
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