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SEOS12/2512 Build - Page 2

post #31 of 353
Nope, never did a with/without on the same speaker, so I could be wrong. I have noticed that the ones that had roundovers seemed to disappear better, but then the way psychology works......
post #32 of 353
the way that you consider yourself both an observer and as part of the experiment in several of your reports is very rare bill...big props, very big props.
post #33 of 353
Well, who has time or energy to set up a blind test, anyway. Particularly on speakers?
post #34 of 353
Nice. Does one know what the minimum width of the box as I am wondering if I could build one for a CC, but then I would need to have the Seos sideways? I only have 12.25" on top of the stand to the wall mounted lcd. Also, where is the build plan for the box? Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Java View Post

The eagle has landed!!
I got my SEOS12 and CD shipment from Erich at DIY Sound Group. All I can say is WOW!! eek.gif
The build quality far exceeds my expectation. Both the WG and CD are far heavier and more solid than I expected.
As info, I got Matte finished WGs to limit glare from front projector. They look really nice!!
Here are some shots...
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post #35 of 353
Don't sideways mount the waveguide, that wont work well at all. Maybe see the Malcolm type center channel.
post #36 of 353
Thanks for the response, it is the perfect size.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwaslo View Post

Don't sideways mount the waveguide, that wont work well at all. Maybe see the Malcolm type center channel.
post #37 of 353
Thread Starter 
Here are some rough layouts (forgive my rusty visio skills) of two cabinet options. My target volume is 2cuft and I'm like to have them 30" tall.

Although I want the taller version, option 1 just seems better. Thoughts?

Any "magic numbers" (i.e., ratios, min woofer clearance) to worry about? Thanks!!

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post #38 of 353
I would move the woofer and waveguide together until they touch to reduce the c-c distance. Ignore this if that wasn't how the crossover was designed.

I would also make the distances equal on all three sides of the waveguide. Not that 1/10" extra on the top is is a big deal....but computer graphics make perfection look easy, nay, mandatory.
post #39 of 353

get em up at ear level, whichever height gets you there.

post #40 of 353
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mobeer4don View Post

I would move the woofer and waveguide together until they touch to reduce the c-c distance. Ignore this if that wasn't how the crossover was designed.
I would also make the distances equal on all three sides of the waveguide. Not that 1/10" extra on the top is is a big deal....but computer graphics make perfection look easy, nay, mandatory.

Thanks, the left/right distance should be the same. I did a visio goof. What about the distance of the WG to the top? As high as possible or just equal to the sides (`1")?

Bill, thoughts on WG -> Woofer distance? As tight as possible?
post #41 of 353
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwaslo View Post

get em up at ear level, whichever height gets you there.

Thanks, Bill

I have two rows of seats with the 2nd row on a 12" riser. In reclining position, ear level is about 32" and 44", respectively.

Per below, I'm constrained on the center speaker to 30". My goal is to have all three speakers at 30" and raise the sides via stands or pedestals. [Note. Forgive the loose wires. DIY plan #1,429 is to build a screen wall to hide all of that.]

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I realize that I'm in "personal preference zone", but as much as I want the taller cab, I think the squatter one looks better. Also, I'm thinking I need something to isolate the speakers, so I'm thinking floor spikes. Below would raise the center speaker 1.5" and can be adjusted, so I could tilt the speaker back a bit. I'll explore something else for the sides.

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post #42 of 353
Ok....so you still need to get them up to ear level so either design requires a stand. My thoughts would be to make them only as tall as they need to be say 24" and get the volume by depth. The 2523 is playing high up in frequency and I'd want to reduce slap back on the cone as much as possible, heavily treating the rear of the enclosure. My design is 14.5" wide by 22" tall and 18" deep.
post #43 of 353
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mayhem13 View Post

Ok....so you still need to get them up to ear level so either design requires a stand. My thoughts would be to make them only as tall as they need to be say 24" and get the volume by depth. The 2523 is playing high up in frequency and I'd want to reduce slap back on the cone as much as possible, heavily treating the rear of the enclosure. My design is 14.5" wide by 22" tall and 18" deep.

Thanks much, Mayhem.

I updated the design for a 24" height. As far as depth, is there a rule of thumb (i.e., ratio, min clearance)? For treating, how thick? 3-4"? Poly?

Did you estimate the displacement for the waveguide?

And another noob question, how does the treatment affect the formulas? Increase Qtc?

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Edit: Forgot to add the CD
Edited by Java - 6/30/12 at 9:31am
post #44 of 353
No estimating..........the waveguide and cd are in their own chamber,protected from enclosure pressure. Even though the SEOS is pretty thick, why take a chance. I use this really nice corrugated foam that's a full 3" thick, open cell.
post #45 of 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by mayhem13 View Post

No estimating..........the waveguide and cd are in their own chamber,protected from enclosure pressure. Even though the SEOS is pretty thick, why take a chance. I use this really nice corrugated foam that's a full 3" thick, open cell.

That's how I've been modelling my own enclosure, two separate chambers. Couldn't you also have the waveguide and cd mounted externally? I've seen several cabinets with this type of configuration, much larger waveguides were used though. Could this be done with the seos-12?
post #46 of 353
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mayhem13 View Post

No estimating..........the waveguide and cd are in their own chamber,protected from enclosure pressure. Even though the SEOS is pretty thick, why take a chance. I use this really nice corrugated foam that's a full 3" thick, open cell.

I was thinking more about accounting for the volume offset in the cab. I calculated the 2512 volume as .08 cuft via the driver displacement calculator: http://www.diyaudioandvideo.com/Calculator/DriverDisplacement/. I couldn't figure out how to account for the WG & CD displacement.

As far as "isolating" the WG, I'm planning on playing it safe, too. I don't know if you got yours yet, but this thing it built very solid. That being said, I don't want to take chance (belt and suspenders), so I will use rope caulk like below.

BigMouthinDC 4PI Build
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post #47 of 353
Thread Starter 
It's crossover time...

I need to get going on the crossovers, so I'm about to hit the send button on the Parts Express order. Can you all take a quick look and see if it makes sense?

In the list below, I had to substitute some items. The top items are off of the original schematic and the bottom are the substitutes. The L-Pad substitution (variable vs permanent) I already discussed with Bill. The second is the need to substitute a backordered part.

Here's BWaslo's schematic
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My PE Shopping List
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For the substitute of item 027-425 with 027-234, is that ok? Per below, it looks like the substitute is the same but higher quality (1% tolerance). Ok to use?

Original Part
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Substitute Part
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post #48 of 353
wait till the 2nd and use the L-pad and switch the cap for lower tolerance one. dont waste time on expensive caps
post #49 of 353
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cookieattk View Post

wait till the 2nd and use the L-pad and switch the cap for lower tolerance one. dont waste time on expensive caps

The cap is on back order until the 17th. It's only $2 more...
post #50 of 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Java View Post

The cap is on back order until the 17th. It's only $2 more...


for the jantzen cap dont waste your time. for the one that's out of stock get the more expensive one.
post #51 of 353
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cookieattk View Post

for the jantzen cap dont waste your time. for the one that's out of stock get the more expensive one.

Cool. Thanks!!
post #52 of 353
PE just started carrying Audyn caps for a good price, might check those for that missing value. BTW are the two LCR traps for impedance spikes or to smooth response bumps?
post #53 of 353
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by augerpro View Post

PE just started carrying Audyn caps for a good price, might check those for that missing value. BTW are the two LCR traps for impedance spikes or to smooth response bumps?

Thanks, Brandon. Below is the closest I could find. Does the higher voltage matter (400 vs 250)? Slightly cheaper than my Dayton option. Equal/better quality?

Hopefully, my above question tells you I have no clue on reason the LCR traps. That's a question for BWaslo. His design thread is here: http://www.diysoundgroup.com/forum/index.php?topic=9.0

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post #54 of 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Java View Post

Thanks, Brandon. Below is the closest I could find. Does the higher voltage matter (400 vs 250)? Slightly cheaper than my Dayton option. Equal/better quality?
Hopefully, my above question tells you I have no clue on reason the LCR traps. That's a question for BWaslo. His design thread is here: http://www.diysoundgroup.com/forum/index.php?topic=9.0
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voltage doesn't matter your not planning to put 4k watts through the caps are you smile.gif
post #55 of 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Java View Post


Per below, I'm constrained on the center speaker to 30". My goal is to have all three speakers at 30" and raise the sides via stands or pedestals.
I have the same dilemma. What I am trying to find out is what's a lesser compromise - all three front stage speakers aligned horizontally slightly lower than ear level or L/R are raised to the recommended level and center is set lower?
The front row in my room is approx. 12 feet from the speakers. At this distance how much of an audible difference would be between 30" and 40" (top edge of the cabinet)?
post #56 of 353
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zheka View Post

I have the same dilemma. What I am trying to find out is what's a lesser compromise - all three front stage speakers aligned horizontally slightly lower than ear level or L/R are raised to the recommended level and center is set lower?
The front row in my room is approx. 12 feet from the speakers. At this distance how much of an audible difference would be between 30" and 40" (top edge of the cabinet)?

Assuming you angle (3-5 degrees?) the speakers, your first row should be fine at 30". It's the second row that is the problem.

You keyed on the main dilemma, do you maximize the height or keep consistent? Until I get an AT screen (not any time soon), I'll aways have this problem. Having different heights for the LCR could impact the imaging, particularly in panning. I haven't heard any issues to date, but with the higher quality build, it may become more pronounced.

My plans are to maximize all for the center height and then try some different height stands for the side mains. You can alway bring them up, but can reverse.
post #57 of 353
"I have the same dilemma."

can you get an acoustically transparent screen? that would solve a lot of problems.

"do you maximize the height or keep consistent?"

it seems that different folks are more or less sensitive to height variation. personally, i can't stand the center below the screen. it ruins the whole thing as i see an effect in one area and hear the sound coming from another. but if you have many seating positions around the room, a center can help get the sound near the screen without creating a lot of delay between the mains, which increases intelligibility.

it is just a problem that without some sort of weird solution like a shaded array of speakers around the screen (even that isn't ideal), you just have to choose the best tradeoff for you and your situation. i know that isn't much help.
Edited by LTD02 - 7/1/12 at 4:50pm
post #58 of 353
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cookieattk View Post

voltage doesn't matter your not planning to put 4k watts through the caps are you smile.gif

Ya never know... wink.gif

Thanks
post #59 of 353
java, ltd02,

thank you for the replies. AT screen is not really an option at this time.

i played a little with phantom center. at the MLP it sounded very good actually.
one thing i noticed is that, even when at ear level, the speakers are at the bottom part of the screen, there is still a disconnect from time to time between the video and the sound. to overcome this i had to lift the speakers much higher. but then I could not get used to the sound when listening to music....
post #60 of 353
Java,

If you are going to get the L-Pad make sure the shaft is long enough to go through the cabinet material.

I just got my SEOS 12 (350's) / Delta 12A's going this evening.....all I can say is WOW!
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