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What is so speciial about a $500 Blue-ray Player?

post #1 of 31
6/25/12 at 6:55pm
Thread Starter 
I spend a decent amount of money on my Denon receivers, B&W speakers and any other gear I buy regardless of hobby but I have a hard time thinking that a DBT-1713UD from Denon would be worth $500.

With Blue-ray players changing so quickly and features being added, is it a good idea to spend $500 on a player when the top of the line Samsung is $179.

I'm not so much comparing Samsung to Denon as much as the life expectancy of a Blue-ray player and the $500 price tag.

If there are good reasons, I would be happy to buy the Denon if I can justify it. I will only be watching movies with the player.
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post #2 of 31
6/25/12 at 8:53pm
The Denon you are talking about is the low-end model. The mid-range model 3313 is going to cost $999.

Both models are capable to play SACD, if you don't plan to have a SACD player, then you should just stick with Samsung.
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post #3 of 31
6/26/12 at 5:52am
That implies that $500 to $1000 is buying him an SACD player. $100+ Sony players play SACD as well, so that's not it. Unless you plan on playing lots of DVDs on your blu ray player (and need the best upscaling), then I don't think there's a whole lot of difference in output between a $100 versus a $1000 player. There's some color-space transcoding going on when playing BR that can be different, but I don't think they can be that different.
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post #4 of 31
6/26/12 at 6:09am

If you are to spend $500, try to check out the Oppo BDP-93 first:

 

http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-93/

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post #5 of 31
6/26/12 at 6:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeGee View Post

If you are to spend $500, try to check out the Oppo BDP-93 first:

http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-93/

Beat me to it. I had a sony bdp-550 which was excellent. But the sound quality diff from the oppo is night and day. Haven't done a side by side PQ test, but willing to bet the oppo wins that too.
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post #6 of 31
6/26/12 at 6:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hakstone View Post

Beat me to it. I had a sony bdp-550 which was excellent. But the sound quality diff from the oppo is night and day.
Only if you use the analog outputs. The bitstream through HDMI is identical.
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post #7 of 31
6/26/12 at 8:40am
Here's a thread that may help you: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1337314/all-1080p-is-not-created-equal-a-blu-ray-player-benchmark

I think the real question is there a difference between players performance (along with features). If you are looking for specific suggestions on which player fits your needs, please use the sticky "help me chose a BR player"
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post #8 of 31
6/26/12 at 8:52am
Expanding on what was said (and recently the Denon players have not been great on pure performance), moving to a player like the Oppo from a Sony S590 (as an example), give you a lot of features that you may or may not need. These include:

- Universal Audio player, if you need DVD-A or SACD support
- Subtitle shift, if you have a Constant Image Height setup and not a standard 16:9 setup
- Source Direct mode, for using a video processor
- Internal memory for BD-Live, as well as stop and resume on DVD discs (which some players now lack)
- Dual HDMI outputs
- 7.1 Analog Outputs

And a few more. For a lot of people, they won't need these are might be reserved for more exotic setups, but it also means the features are there should you need them later (as I use the subtitle shift now, but previously didn't need it). When you get past the $200 players into $500 ones you are paying for a lot of these features, and as these players might sell in smaller amounts they often cost more as well due to that. But examine the extra features on the players, determine if you need them, and then decide based on that. You can get a $130 player that puts out an identical image for almost every Blu-ray disc out there compared to the $500 player, but if you need a feature on a $500 player, then it can be worth it (I have $500 players and $130 players, depending on the room myself).
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post #9 of 31
6/26/12 at 9:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeGee View Post

If you are to spend $500, try to check out the Oppo BDP-93 first:

http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-93/

Ditto on that, then go out and get some SACD's to play!
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post #10 of 31
6/26/12 at 9:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smackrabbit View Post

Expanding on what was said (and recently the Denon players have not been great on pure performance), moving to a player like the Oppo from a Sony S590 (as an example), give you a lot of features that you may or may not need. These include:
- Universal Audio player, if you need DVD-A or SACD support
- Subtitle shift, if you have a Constant Image Height setup and not a standard 16:9 setup
- Source Direct mode, for using a video processor
- Internal memory for BD-Live, as well as stop and resume on DVD discs (which some players now lack)
- Dual HDMI outputs
- 7.1 Analog Outputs
And a few more. For a lot of people, they won't need these are might be reserved for more exotic setups, but it also means the features are there should you need them later (as I use the subtitle shift now, but previously didn't need it). When you get past the $200 players into $500 ones you are paying for a lot of these features, and as these players might sell in smaller amounts they often cost more as well due to that. But examine the extra features on the players, determine if you need them, and then decide based on that. You can get a $130 player that puts out an identical image for almost every Blu-ray disc out there compared to the $500 player, but if you need a feature on a $500 player, then it can be worth it (I have $500 players and $130 players, depending on the room myself).

Excellent post!
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post #11 of 31
6/26/12 at 9:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smackrabbit View Post

Expanding on what was said (and recently the Denon players have not been great on pure performance), moving to a player like the Oppo from a Sony S590 (as an example), give you a lot of features that you may or may not need. These include:
- Universal Audio player, if you need DVD-A or SACD support
- Subtitle shift, if you have a Constant Image Height setup and not a standard 16:9 setup
- Source Direct mode, for using a video processor
- Internal memory for BD-Live, as well as stop and resume on DVD discs (which some players now lack)
- Dual HDMI outputs
- 7.1 Analog Outputs
And a few more. For a lot of people, they won't need these are might be reserved for more exotic setups, but it also means the features are there should you need them later (as I use the subtitle shift now, but previously didn't need it). When you get past the $200 players into $500 ones you are paying for a lot of these features, and as these players might sell in smaller amounts they often cost more as well due to that. But examine the extra features on the players, determine if you need them, and then decide based on that. You can get a $130 player that puts out an identical image for almost every Blu-ray disc out there compared to the $500 player, but if you need a feature on a $500 player, then it can be worth it (I have $500 players and $130 players, depending on the room myself).

while that might be true for some. I think there is one item that you are missing. yes all blu ray player have some sort of problems. that is true about any electronics. however its more about how the company reacts to it. some are much better then others and some never get fixed and some get fixed more quickly then others. there is one differnce between the oppo and other companies. its the costumer service is just outstanding. they beat pretty much any of the brand name players. you will probably wont know that until you get a player like the oppo. for some 500 might be a steep. its a bargin compared to others. they could easily sell this thing for more then 500. like they do with the 95.

Jacob
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post #12 of 31
6/26/12 at 9:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by psgcdn View Post

Only if you use the analog outputs. The bitstream through HDMI is identical.

I am using analog.
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post #13 of 31
6/26/12 at 10:40am
Yeah, then it matters. bass management is a pain though. I switched to HDMI for SACD and boy does that make it easier (same AVR bass management as other content, no LFE to boost by 10 dB or more) and cheaper (it's only a transport so who cares; $140 Sony S590 works well!).
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post #14 of 31
6/26/12 at 10:50am
Thread Starter 
Thanks everyone for the replies!

I probably don't need the additional features mentioned except for the stop/resume feature. I love that feature and sometimes watching a movie with my wife can takes hours so this feature is priceless.

The other feature and the reason I started looking at this player is the Denon remote app. I would like to controll the player using my iPad.

Mostly though, I would love a player that played the crappy discs fron the rental store. I would hope that a higher end player could muscle past some of the scratches or defects that my current Samsung seems to be terrible at.
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post #15 of 31
6/26/12 at 10:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by psgcdn View Post

Yeah, then it matters. bass management is a pain though. I switched to HDMI for SACD and boy does that make it easier (same AVR bass management as other content, no LFE to boost by 10 dB or more) and cheaper (it's only a transport so who cares; $140 Sony S590 works well!).

I'm still running an onkyo TX DS989, no HDMI.
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post #16 of 31
6/26/12 at 3:41pm
As far as iOS apps go, the Samsung one was much better than the other apps I have used recently. Whereas most of them just mimic the remote control, Samsung has actually designed an app that can do that, but also is context aware of what's on screen and adjusts based on that, so you can use it to do things more easily than you could with a normal remote. I'm still amazed that more companies haven't done this, as otherwise I find the iOS remotes to be annoying since they offer nothing over the normal remotes, only have no tactile buttons to use. There's no way I'd buy a player just for the iOS remote feature, as you could buy a full universal remote for the price difference.
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post #17 of 31
6/26/12 at 4:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by drober30 View Post

Mostly though, I would love a player that played the crappy discs fron the rental store. I would hope that a higher end player could muscle past some of the scratches or defects that my current Samsung seems to be terrible at.

I wouldn't count on that. My first BluRay player was a fairly expensive ($550 51FD) Pioneer, and it had the worst error correction, much worse than the inexpensive Panny 110 that replaced it. Mainly, what you pay for with more expensive players is better audio DACs (which are only important if you use analog audio outs), SACD/DVD-A capability, and dual HDMI outs (which you only need if you have a 3D display and a non-3D receiver).
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post #18 of 31
6/26/12 at 10:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillP View Post

I wouldn't count on that. My first BluRay player was a fairly expensive ($550 51FD) Pioneer, and it had the worst error correction, much worse than the inexpensive Panny 110 that replaced it. Mainly, what you pay for with more expensive players is better audio DACs (which are only important if you use analog audio outs), SACD/DVD-A capability, and dual HDMI outs (which you only need if you have a 3D display and a non-3D receiver).

The panny 500 has analogue outs and dual hdmi and costs $350. The sony 790 has dual hdmi and supports SACD at $250. Actually, all sony players from 2011 and 2012 support SACD; even their $40 model from last year a refurb BX 18/185.
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post #19 of 31
7/5/12 at 10:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by drober30 View Post

Mostly though, I would love a player that played the crappy discs fron the rental store. I would hope that a higher end player could muscle past some of the scratches or defects that my current Samsung seems to be terrible at.

I got a Panasonic DMP-BDT220 a couple of months ago and love it. However, I'm glad I kept my old, fat PS3. I watch a lot of Blu-rays and have come across a handful, maybe a few more, that wouldn't play on the 220. The PS3 on the other hand will play anything and seems to eat scratches and dirt for breakfast. It's (still) an awesome and very reliable Blu-ray player.
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post #20 of 31
7/6/12 at 2:16am
Oddly, I had the opposite experience. My first 590 was rather 'selective' about what disks it would play. I inspected each one, and none of the disks in question had anything beyond very slight scratches or smudges. It's possibie even likely that there are simply random bad units in just about every line of players.
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post #21 of 31
7/6/12 at 3:56am
Those $500 would be better spent on Denon headphones me thinks.
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post #22 of 31
7/13/12 at 8:49pm
I don't understand the pricing structure for Denon BluRay players myself.

I owned a 2910 DVD player, and was happy with it.....planned on buying a Denon BluRay when I upgraded. I run a 3808 AVR that replaced a 3803......I guess you could say I was a Denon fanboy.

However, I now own an Oppo BDP-93. The Denon brings nothing to the table that the Oppo doesn't have it covered on.

The ONLY thing Denon had going for it was DenonLink.....before we could get DSD over HDMI.......now it is regulated to the highest end models, and the way I understand it, requires 2 connections now, one for a clock signal, but the actual audio will be carried over HDMI.

I don't see me upgrading AVRs anytime soon, but when/if I do, I am pretty sure I will look to Denon first, but just give their BluRay a passing glance.
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post #23 of 31
1/24/13 at 12:32pm
I think everybody sympathizes with you about the cost. Times are tough, right? You say that you only watch movies, so for the most part, you're right. Save your money. If, however, you're an audiophile then you want absolutely the best sound and the Denon gives it. Noticeably better. Another good reason for the Denon is that it will play almost ANY disk. My entry level Sony Blu-Ray was cheap, but it wouldn't play SA-CDs, which was a real frustration. In addition to playing all disks, the Denon Blu-Ray is DLNA-certified and you can set up a simple DLNA server in your house on your computer to send music, photos and videos to the Denon. Great convenience. So that's why I like it: networking, all disk formats accepted, and above all THE BEST SOUND.
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post #24 of 31
2/5/13 at 8:24pm
Get the $3500 Lexicon. It's just as good as the $500 Oppo but looks way cooler and the faceplate is nice and thick wink.gif
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post #25 of 31
2/6/13 at 6:54pm
The more I read - the happier I am with my Sony BDP-S1000ES purchased from BestBuy for $89 on closeout. It provides everything I want from a blu-ray player, it provides superb audio and video, it has played everything I have ever thrown at it, it rarely gets firmware updates (maybe once a year) but then it always works so who really cares, and it is cinavia free. And it looks perfectly fine in my home theater cabinet.
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post #26 of 31
2/6/13 at 7:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich86 View Post

The more I read - the happier I am with my Sony BDP-S1000ES purchased from BestBuy for $89 on closeout. It provides everything I want from a blu-ray player, it provides superb audio and video, it has played everything I have ever thrown at it, it rarely gets firmware updates (maybe once a year) but then it always works so who really cares, and it is cinavia free. And it looks perfectly fine in my home theater cabinet.

the only problem I had with a sony player was playing netflix through an lcd tv set. I never played a sony netflix on a plasma. I also had this problem with the oppo 93. however once I switched to plasma it went away. I would still pick oppo over sony. Iwent around in circles with sony/internet company and netflix about the problem with the netflix. it didnt go anywhere. i was stuck going in circles. a least with oppo I know that I will get great service.

Jacob
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post #27 of 31
2/7/13 at 12:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob305 View Post

the only problem I had with a sony player was playing netflix through an lcd tv set. I never played a sony netflix on a plasma. I also had this problem with the oppo 93. however once I switched to plasma it went away. I would still pick oppo over sony. Iwent around in circles with sony/internet company and netflix about the problem with the netflix. it didnt go anywhere. i was stuck going in circles. a least with oppo I know that I will get great service.
Jacob

I've never had any need for service from Sony . . ever . . TVs, DVD players, blu-ray players, portable equipment, etc . . they all work fine out of the box and I've never had one fail. However, I also have no need for streaming services from a blu-ray player at all so I cannot comment on how well a Sony player handles that (although the Sony players I purchased for our children seem to handle streaming just fine, from what they have said). When I have the urge to stream something for viewing, my HDTV (a Sony) handles it. But I have no need for it and haven't used it much beyond experimenting.
I understand Oppo provides excellent customer support and based on posts in here, Oppo customers seem to use it a fair bit and value it greatly.
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post #28 of 31
2/8/13 at 10:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich86 View Post

The more I read - the happier I am with my Sony BDP-S1000ES purchased from BestBuy for $89 on closeout. It provides everything I want from a blu-ray player, it provides superb audio and video, it has played everything I have ever thrown at it, it rarely gets firmware updates (maybe once a year) but then it always works so who really cares, and it is cinavia free. And it looks perfectly fine in my home theater cabinet.

Try throwing a PAL dvd in it....NOT!!

Bought a sony last week at costco, threw in a concert from Germany, no disc found,,, back it went ...pronto!!
Sony/Panasonic ..etc, still up to the same chit......no thanks!!
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post #29 of 31
2/8/13 at 10:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich86 View Post

The more I read - the happier I am with my Sony BDP-S1000ES purchased from BestBuy for $89 on closeout. It provides everything I want from a blu-ray player, it provides superb audio and video, it has played everything I have ever thrown at it, it rarely gets firmware updates (maybe once a year) but then it always works so who really cares, and it is cinavia free. And it looks perfectly fine in my home theater cabinet.

Try throwing a PAL dvd in it....NOT!!

Bought a sony last week at costco, threw in a concert from Germany, no disc found,,, back it went ...pronto!!
Sony/Panasonic ..etc, still up to the same chit......no thanks!!
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post #30 of 31
2/9/13 at 7:23am
You only have room for one DVD player?!
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