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DIY PA type subwoofer

post #1 of 24
6/25/12 at 11:33pm
Thread Starter 
hello... i've been looking through several audio forums and websites to see where i can build my own PA type subwoofer.. something i can make with 1/4 or xlr connection (though i can pass with rca.. though i've found through other subs i've used with all connections that RCA has sounded like arse compared to the other two).

anywho... i want to make something compact.. all the PA type subwoofers i see are 15/18 inches.. which are too large for conventional carrying to and from parties (doesnt fit in a trunk of a car)...

so i wanted to build something with 2 12 inch subs with hopefully a custom plate amp i can drop right into the box (but again, if need be i'm willing to make it a passive sub with an external amp)

i have no idea where to even get amps of that kind.. i see plenty of plate amps for home audio type subs (only RCA connections)

also i'm looking to spend maybe 500 dollars tops on this project

any help would be appreciated.. and thanks for your time in advance

and sorry for sounding very newb-ish

also i would like to add this is for simple house party dj'ing... mostly indoors.. but every now and then something outdoors
Edited by nosboost300 - 6/25/12 at 11:51pm
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post #2 of 24
6/26/12 at 12:23am
How loud, how low do you want to go, and what will it be crossing to above sub range, and at approx what frequency?

Are you really sure you can't deal with a 15" driver? A single 15 like the Eminence Kappalite 3015LF will give more output than a pair of most 12" drivers, for not much more than the cost of a single 12". Add the box and a Behringer EP2000 amp and you're close to budget with a good performing system.

100L net, tuned to 42Hz, with 3 x 10cm diameter ports 33cm long (or equivalent slot) gets you the following.

VB Response Eminence 3015LF.gif 25k .gif file
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post #3 of 24
6/26/12 at 12:45am
What does the type of connection have anything to do with the sound of the subwoofer?
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post #4 of 24
6/26/12 at 1:01am
Thread Starter 
i currently have a cheapy 15 inch gemini subwoofer that does not fit in anybodies trunk..and that box for it is definitely pretty small/minimal (as far as cases for 15's) ..simple box with very thin bottom port

it doesnt need to be that loud.. as it will mostly be used indoors...
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post #5 of 24
6/26/12 at 5:00am
If you need that small, take a look at the fEarful 12 Sub using an Eminence Kappalite 3012LF which is 16.5" X 20.5" X 17". Very lightweight and good xmax but the drivers are kinda pricy if not on sale. If the drivers cost too much, use WinISD to check out other less expensive drivers in that enclosure.
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post #6 of 24
6/26/12 at 5:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manic1! View Post

What does the type of connection have anything to do with the sound of the subwoofer?
Pro sound boards/amps use balanced sends/receives, to eliminate ground loop issues. They also run at a higher send voltage than consumer gear. Mixing pro and consumer grade gear will only lead to problems.
Quote:
i have no idea where to even get amps of that kind.. i see plenty of plate amps for home audio type subs (only RCA connections)
Very few exist, and those that are out there are very expensive.
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post #7 of 24
6/26/12 at 5:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by haanjamin View Post

If you need that small, take a look at the fEarful 12 Sub using an Eminence Kappalite 3012LF which is 16.5" X 20.5" X 17". Very lightweight and good xmax but the drivers are kinda pricy if not on sale. If the drivers cost too much, use WinISD to check out other less expensive drivers in that enclosure.

Thanks for this link, some nice designs.

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post #8 of 24
6/26/12 at 6:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NicksHitachi View Post

Thanks for this link, some nice designs.

They are quite nice, I built 2 of the 15 Subs that worked well. However, with DIY, enough is never enough so I upgraded to 2 18LW2400s. Now I have to try to sell the fEarfuls.
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post #9 of 24
6/26/12 at 8:06am
Since you said it doesnt need to be really loud, mostly indoors use, and you would like a simple setup, how about:


http://www.amazon.com/Infinity-Reference-1260w-1200-watt-High-Performance/dp/B0028AVGEO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1340722819&sr=8-1&keywords=1260w

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-803

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=268-352 (use full length)

Build a box that's 14" x 19" x 22" (outer dimension .75" material) . A pair of these should fit in most trunks pretty easily

266
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post #10 of 24
6/26/12 at 9:38am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

Since you said it doesnt need to be really loud, mostly indoors use, and you would like a simple setup, how about:
http://www.amazon.com/Infinity-Reference-1260w-1200-watt-High-Performance/dp/B0028AVGEO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1340722819&sr=8-1&keywords=1260w
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-803
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=268-352 (use full length)
Build a box that's 14" x 19" x 22" (outer dimension .75" material) . A pair of these should fit in most trunks pretty easily
266

pretty straight forward easy build.. will that amp power 2 of those subs though? kinda sucks only really having the RCA as an option for the input.. but i think i can manage since i will be using a Mackie main mixing board for all audio devices anyway
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post #11 of 24
6/26/12 at 10:08am
Thread Starter 
curious if i can reuse this amp from my 15 inch gemini... only thing is.. i blew out a fuse a while ago because i decided to cross wire another subwoofer with it.... so i replaced the fuse yesterday but now i'm not getting output from the amp... but the limiter light on it still blinks338
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post #12 of 24
6/26/12 at 10:12am
PartsExpress sells a PA plate amp, problem is it runs full range, so you'll need an inductor with your woofer to limit its hf output. What type of lf response are you looking to get? When you say 'subwoofer', most here will think you're going for down to at least 20Hz. Just want to see what you're really looking for, as that will generally dictate your cabinet size.

PE also sells a Dayton 15" PA driver that works very well in very small boxes. If you just need to down in the mid 40's, this would work well. But it's on backorder till mid-July.
Edited by garciab - 6/26/12 at 10:24am
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post #13 of 24
6/26/12 at 10:19am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garciab View Post

PartsExpress sells a PA plate amp, problem is it runs full range, so you'll need an inductor with your woofer to limit its hf output. What type of lf response are you looking to get? When you say 'subwoofer', most here will think you're going for down to at least 20Hz. Just want to see what you're really looking for, as that will generally dictate your cabinet size.

i posted something else earlier but it said its up for review some odd reason?

but anywho.. i don't think i need anything lower than 35hz.. as i really don't think half of the music i play (house, dubstep, drum and bass) ever gets that low... alot of high end PA subs only drop as low as 35hz.. and those are like $1200.00 mackie subwoofers.. definitely don't need anything that intense

and anychance i could get a link of some PA Plate Amps.. i can't seem to find em.. i can settle for rca though.. since everything will be going out from a PA Mackie mixer anyway

EDIT:

and i was curious if i could make some kind of thinner box for a 15.. but just longer than normal.. and it seems like it might be possible to still use a 15.. might be the route i want to go
Edited by nosboost300 - 6/26/12 at 10:39am
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post #14 of 24
6/26/12 at 10:52am
Thread Starter 
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=295-466

thinking maybe 2 of those... in an enclosure similar to the definitive tech supercube (that way i can make another enclosure later in the future to carry 4 12's very discretely

2715497_ra.jpg

or maybe even similar to this dayton box

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-767

edit:
so i hooked my amp from the post above up to a 12 inch JLw0 and it was giving it power.. so i guess it was my 15 inch driver that decided to stop working... so at least i can recycle that and not have to compromise my xlr connections
Edited by nosboost300 - 6/26/12 at 11:45am
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post #15 of 24
6/26/12 at 12:37pm
Best thing to do is define exactly what you'd like to have. You've already posted the budget. When you define what you'd like to have, you then start working backwards from there to determine what will/won't work. Things like actual size of box, how low you want it to play, etc. And best to list the requirements in order of priority. Like your first link is for a 12" driver that works well in a small box, so that's a start. But we need to know the dimensions that you'd like the box to be, for your needs. The second link is to a bigger box, but the dimensions may work cuz it's slim. If that works for you, that's something the guys around here can work with as well.

Here is the link to the Dayton PA plate amp, but it looks like you may be set for an amp.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?PartNumber=300-797
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post #16 of 24
6/26/12 at 4:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Pro sound boards/amps use balanced sends/receives, to eliminate ground loop issues. They also run at a higher send voltage than consumer gear. Mixing pro and consumer grade gear will only lead to problems.
Quote:

I understand that but buy just adding an XLR connection to a powered sub is not going to improve sound.
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post #17 of 24
6/26/12 at 5:31pm
For $500 you could do a 1/4 of this.

I built 4 19x19x15 inch boxes with the Dayton PA 18's, all powered by a single EP 4000.
It worked out great. They are light, I can pick them up with one hand.

You could make the depth even smaller if you had to, or downsize to 15's for smaller/cheaper still.

But I'd recommend you spend the extra $100 to build a pair and wire it bridged at 4-ohm; trust me, it will knock your socks off.

61419265.jpg
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post #18 of 24
6/26/12 at 6:39pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garciab View Post

Best thing to do is define exactly what you'd like to have. You've already posted the budget. When you define what you'd like to have, you then start working backwards from there to determine what will/won't work. Things like actual size of box, how low you want it to play, etc. And best to list the requirements in order of priority. Like your first link is for a 12" driver that works well in a small box, so that's a start. But we need to know the dimensions that you'd like the box to be, for your needs. The second link is to a bigger box, but the dimensions may work cuz it's slim. If that works for you, that's something the guys around here can work with as well.
Here is the link to the Dayton PA plate amp, but it looks like you may be set for an amp.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?PartNumber=300-797

ok here's what i want
-Slim box .. 1 possibly 2 15's.... going to do 1 for the meantime since i already have an amp good enough for a single 15
-XLR or 1/4 connections (already on the current amp that i have)
-ported box schematics
338
something like this... a slim 15 inch box thats slightly long so i can fit the plate amp, driver, and port all in one

Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post

For $500 you could do a 1/4 of this.
I built 4 19x19x15 inch boxes with the Dayton PA 18's, all powered by a single EP 4000.
It worked out great. They are light, I can pick them up with one hand.
You could make the depth even smaller if you had to, or downsize to 15's for smaller/cheaper still.
But I'd recommend you spend the extra $100 to build a pair and wire it bridged at 4-ohm; trust me, it will knock your socks off.
61419265.jpg

i'm definitely thinking of going dayton 15 inch .. and if all goes well, and i can get a design to work with dual 15's its definitely going to happen in the near future ... heck.. if i can make a low profile 18 inch i'd even be willing to deal with that
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post #19 of 24
6/26/12 at 6:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manic1! View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Pro sound boards/amps use balanced sends/receives, to eliminate ground loop issues. They also run at a higher send voltage than consumer gear. Mixing pro and consumer grade gear will only lead to problems.
Quote:
I understand that but buy just adding an XLR connection to a powered sub is not going to improve sound.
Of course not. It's the balanced connection that improves system quality. There's no point in using an XLR if it's not balanced.

BTW, it looks like the forum software is messing up the Reply w/Quote function.
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post #20 of 24
6/26/12 at 6:52pm
Thread Starter 
testing

338

took me a third post to finally get something to post.. i'm not sure what puts a post under review... but this is kind of the box i have in mind

a 15 inch slim box ... roughly 30x18x14 ... has enough room on one end for the woofer, room on the other end for the amp and a small port

for now.. i will be fine doing a single woofer box just to give things a try.. and see if a 15 inch dayton is enough.... i need to check the dimensions of the 18 inch dayton.. if i can make a low profile box for that i will definitely do that instead

current amp is only 400/1600 watts.. how do i know how many ohms is it?

it's an amp pulled from this subwoofer
http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-GEM-GVXSUB15P-LIST

[more edits]
just realized the dayton 18 inch subwoofer on parts express is only a paper cone?!?! that i do not like at all!!!
i'm definitely only going to stick with a 15 for the mean time then
Edited by nosboost300 - 6/26/12 at 7:17pm
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post #21 of 24
6/26/12 at 7:33pm
Build one of my bass cannons. Super simple and easy build, uses an inexpensive woofer(Sundown SA12), and crushes a house. Easily carried and moved around. I recommend a pair if possible. I use them frequently in outdoor and other show settings. The pic shows an LMS-R, but the Sundown measures better.

337
338

Load it with a Sundown SA12, and get the following response:
293

Here is the plan:
Bass Cannon Dimensioned.jpg 532k .jpg file

And parts list:
Bass Cannon Parts List.xlsx 12k .xlsx file


Build 2 and call me in the morning, if you need drivers let me know. If you are anywhere remotely close to zip 14450 I'll sell you a pair that I have complete.
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post #22 of 24
6/26/12 at 7:40pm
Thread Starter 
pretty sweet looking box... close to the size i want as well.. but much more difficult as far as building is concerned lol
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post #23 of 24
6/26/12 at 7:51pm
It is a rectangle with a slot port and 2 braces. That is about as simple as it gets.
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post #24 of 24
6/27/12 at 11:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nosboost300 View Post

just realized the dayton 18 inch subwoofer on parts express is only a paper cone?!?! that i do not like at all!!!
i'm definitely only going to stick with a 15 for the mean time then

What's wrong with paper?
Uh Oh, your making me feel bad now because 20 of the 27 bass drivers I have are paper-based, worst yet... I spent $15k on them EEK redface.gif
Almost all PA cones are made with paper FYI.

Unless your avoiding damage from splashing party drinks on them in the damp moldy rain outside, then I could see that logic.
Mine are all home indoor/non-party use.

Which 15" woofer are you looking into?
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