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What is a reasonable budget for the following.............

post #1 of 11
6/26/12 at 7:04am
Thread Starter 
Currently working with a CG budgeting line item by line item. The goal is to derive a realistic budget for the following:

Automation in a dedicated theater room to include:

Trigger for Cineslide and Isco A-lens
Trigger for Projector
Thermostat
Control for 6 zone Grafik Eye
Processor and Amp control
Direct TV control
Control of Oppo-95
Trigger for Masking Screen
Hand wand

Lighting for adjacent bathroom and hallway

Control for TV in Greatroom
Control for second processor and amp
Hand wand

Dedicated network system to include CAT 5/6 cabling to corresponding rooms.

I've demoed Crestron, Prodogy, Control 4 and Elan g!. Have no preference, but integrator with Elan g! has a terrific track record for installs.

Before I get down to the nitty-gritty, I'd like a ball park figure ie. +/- 10% cost for the fore-mentioned requirements using either 1) Crestron, 2) Prodogy, Control4 or Elan g!

Thanks
Edited by doublewing11 - 6/26/12 at 7:10am
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post #2 of 11
6/27/12 at 6:01pm
I'm no dealer but asking for a quote that is within 10% of final cost with no other information other than a laundry list of wishes is never going to get a response from anyone with detailed knowledge of the subject. How could someone give you a quote when they don't even know how much cable needs to be run or the make and model of ANY equipment? Even the lighting is subject to a huge variance. How many lights are you controlling? Do they need to dim? How are the switches arranged (to properly account for de-rating, if necessary)?

My point is you are asking an extremely complex question in a way that wants a simple answer. Unfortunately there isn't one -- especially with so little information. You're best off talking to local dealers and asking them to give you a ballpark or, alternatively, give them your budget and ask how much from your list is realistic within that. I've found that a budget seems to go only half as far as you think it should.

Good luck.
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post #3 of 11
6/28/12 at 2:17pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizzer-d View Post

I'm no dealer but asking for a quote that is within 10% of final cost with no other information other than a laundry list of wishes is never going to get a response from anyone with detailed knowledge of the subject. How could someone give you a quote when they don't even know how much cable needs to be run or the make and model of ANY equipment? Even the lighting is subject to a huge variance. How many lights are you controlling? Do they need to dim? How are the switches arranged (to properly account for de-rating, if necessary)?
My point is you are asking an extremely complex question in a way that wants a simple answer. Unfortunately there isn't one -- especially with so little information. You're best off talking to local dealers and asking them to give you a ballpark or, alternatively, give them your budget and ask how much from your list is realistic within that. I've found that a budget seems to go only half as far as you think it should.
Good luck.

Thanks for the reply..............

I've been down the road and have discussed my goals with 7 different integrators.........each with their own unique solution. What I came out of those meetings was that I learned nothing. That's the confusing part of searching for a CI............specifics are given, yet seven different solutions with a big discrepancy in cost. Interesting...................

Simple two room automation shouldn't be too difficult nor break the bank................I've received bids from $5,500 to $18,000. I've done my research............but still have no idea what is realistic or a fleecing.
Edited by doublewing11 - 6/28/12 at 2:22pm
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post #4 of 11
6/28/12 at 4:40pm
Well if what you told them is as vague as what you told us it's a wonder why!
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post #5 of 11
6/29/12 at 10:08am
just allocate $20K for the wiring. I'm sure you can find stuff to do to come within 10% of that.
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post #6 of 11
6/30/12 at 1:26am
This isn't directly related, but I thought I would add this:
Unless you're using the analog audio outputs, having a BDP-95 over a BDP-93 is a complete waste of money. Check out what the oppo site says. No way the digital outputs could be any better.
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post #7 of 11
6/30/12 at 5:03am
Ok, ok, so I'll attempt to actually give you what you asked for instead of lip service.

I'm going to answer this directly, meaning for the control system only, not inclusive of any of your other AV components, light control components.

While I design systems on occassion with control 4, since I'm not a dealer I can't offer you pricing.

Prodigy: because you want to have 2nd surround processor, there are only 2 ways to do Prodigy that this will work.

1) program a single control system using Simple Windows, not the way they tell you to program them ( which is in the wizard-based software called System Builder).

2) get 2 separate controllers & do 2 programs using something called inter system communication so they function as a single system.

Doing either solution in Prodigy, provided Everything in the home is already properly wired; I'd expect the system to come in around $6k - 7k... The only other caveat would be if the components that need to be controlled need to have custom RS232 or TCP/IP drivers written, but otherwise my pricing should be if anything a little on the high side.

Personally, because your system is not within the very rigid box Crestron designed for Prodigy, I would not use Prodigy. If you need more explanation why I'd be happy to chat via PM, But many prodigy people get themselves in trouble because Crestron does a terrible job of informing dealers of the limits the software has.


If you do regular Crestron, your probably more in the $7,500 - $8,500 range.

Again, my estimates are based on some pretty tight expectations of everything being ready & set up correctly. Also the expectation that you are furnishing a schematic or list of precisely how the system is connected & what IR commands have to be sent to the system in order to trigger the desired function.

If it becomes the job of the integrator to furnish anymore than what I just described, the cost is obviously going to increase with that... Remember that if the integrator is not familiar with your system and components, he/she will have spend time learning about it.
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post #8 of 11
6/30/12 at 7:04pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HCCDesignGuy View Post

Ok, ok, so I'll attempt to actually give you what you asked for instead of lip service.
I'm going to answer this directly, meaning for the control system only, not inclusive of any of your other AV components, light control components.
While I design systems on occassion with control 4, since I'm not a dealer I can't offer you pricing.
Prodigy: because you want to have 2nd surround processor, there are only 2 ways to do Prodigy that this will work.
1) program a single control system using Simple Windows, not the way they tell you to program them ( which is in the wizard-based software called System Builder).
2) get 2 separate controllers & do 2 programs using something called inter system communication so they function as a single system.
Doing either solution in Prodigy, provided Everything in the home is already properly wired; I'd expect the system to come in around $6k - 7k... The only other caveat would be if the components that need to be controlled need to have custom RS232 or TCP/IP drivers written, but otherwise my pricing should be if anything a little on the high side.
Personally, because your system is not within the very rigid box Crestron designed for Prodigy, I would not use Prodigy. If you need more explanation why I'd be happy to chat via PM, But many prodigy people get themselves in trouble because Crestron does a terrible job of informing dealers of the limits the software has.
If you do regular Crestron, your probably more in the $7,500 - $8,500 range.
Again, my estimates are based on some pretty tight expectations of everything being ready & set up correctly. Also the expectation that you are furnishing a schematic or list of precisely how the system is connected & what IR commands have to be sent to the system in order to trigger the desired function.
If it becomes the job of the integrator to furnish anymore than what I just described, the cost is obviously going to increase with that... Remember that if the integrator is not familiar with your system and components, he/she will have spend time learning about it.

Thank you for the reply,

I probably should have mentioned I'm preparing for a new construction..................I'm sitting down with the GC and hammering down a line item budget. Since this is essentially automation for controlling one room, I'm trying to filter out what bids are realistic and those that are not. All bids were done for pre-wire and hooking up purchased equipment to control.

Though I understand how labor intensive ie. programming can be.............I want a bullet proof system which will be reliable in the fore-seeable future. What that is, I need to find out.............

Thanks again for taking the time to reply................very helpful.
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post #9 of 11
7/8/12 at 8:56am
My own 2 cents as a Crestron dealer? Go with the Elan G, since he has a good track record, and you seem to feel comfortable with him. The CI is the key to the install. I have seen lousy Crestron installs where a simple URC or RTI would have done the job better, and there are install where only Crestron or AMX will do what is needed. Prices coud vary greatly with any system as you can use a $ 500 remote to control it, or a $ 5000 touchpanel to do the same thing. Of course, the 5K touchpanel will give you much more GUI choices, but the devil is in the details.
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post #10 of 11
9/18/12 at 8:41pm
While your "wishlist" may seem pretty nailed down to you, it is still somewhat vague in terms of being able to gather even an educated "guestimate" from a CI.

Here is my suggestion: Look at several control systems (which you have already done), decide which one has the function, features, costs that seem to fit in your ball park, (you already know if you can afford a $500 touch panel or a $5K touch panel) and then sit down with that dealer and have them do a rough design for you to get a closer number. If they see a commitment from you to choose them as your CI, it goes a long way towards getting a proposal that will come in within +/- 10%. There are many, many hours put forth by a dealer to design and quote a quality system like what you are dreaming of.

I have met with clients to gather information, wishes, requirements, etc, spend 10 + hours researching, compiling and presenting a $50K project only to have them say "oh, that much, I was thinking like $5000, I guess I'll stick with my standard DirecTV remote control and have my electrician install the speakers."

Just like you sit down with your GC to discuss things in detail to come up with a total price, your CI has to put together lots of information that affects many parts of the home in the same way.
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post #11 of 11
9/19/12 at 11:01am
Have you considered using a consultant to help you make the determinations that you are interested in? There are a number of us out here on the forum. We can help you make decisions on what products to use based on how you will use a system, not on what product do I need to sell today. Most of us have earned our grey hair and are not the young eager beaver CI's that run from one manufacturer to the next, or one technology to the next, but based on 1. you the client, and 2. our experience and longevity in the industry.

Just a thought...
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