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Sharp LC-70LE845U - Overcoming the Blues on the 70" edge-lit 3D Quattron

post #1 of 69
Thread Starter 
I love my 70" 3D Quattron.
I knew I would eventually and now I really do.
The color out of the box was too blue, too contrasty, clipped reds and magentas.
Rather than working from Movie mode and boosting to an acceptable level, I
started with the Standard mode, which is the default out of the box anyway.
10-point temperature was needed to turn down the blue in the highlights and CMS was
needed to eliminate the red and magenta and yellow clipping. That's pretty much
it. Green drive was boosted across the 10-point spectrum to add brightness and
to balance the black and white to a warmer value. Red was reduced at the very
bottom of the low light to make shadows clean instead of maroon-toned.
Here's the complete adjustment tabulation. I don't know if it helps anyone else,
but I call it a keeper. I've watched lots of broadcast and several 3D movies with
these settings and am happy with every aspect:

AV Mode = Standard

OPC = On

Backlight = Standard (0, or 50%)

Contrast = +40
Brightness = +1
Color = 0
Tint = 0
Sharpness = +10 (max)

CMS Hue = All 0

CMS Saturation:
R = -16, Y = -5, G = 0
C = 0, B = 0, M = -5

CMS Value:
R = -14, Y = -5, G = 0
C = 0, B = 0, M = -8

Color Temperature 10-Point = ON:
1) R = -30, G = +30, B = 30
2) R = -23, G = -30, B = -10
3) R = -14, G = +11, B = -10
4) R = -13, G = +11, B = -10
5) R = -9, G = +15, B = -10
6) R = -5, G = +15, B = -12
7) R = -5, G = +10, B = -14
8) R = +6, G = +18, B = -13
9) R = -4, G = +10, B = -23
10) R = -16, G = 0, B = -30

Motion Enhancement = OFF
Active Contrast = OFF
Gamma Adjustment = +2
Film Mode = OFF

OPC Range:
Max = +8
Min = 0

That's it!
Excellent all-round picture with snap and pop and chromatic accuracy.
Movie Mode requires Enhanced Color Gamut to get acceptable brightness.
The Expanded Gamut, though, adds artifacts that cannot be corrected.
Standard mode avoids the inaccuracies of the gamut boost and loses the
red, magenta, and yellow clipping as well as the white clipping in the blue band.
This is not to usurp the professional calibrators -- these are all consumer controls.
It's the simplest set of changes I could find to get the set performing properly.
A professional could try the settings and give an assessment from there...
Edited by johnfull - 7/5/12 at 4:40am
post #2 of 69
Thread Starter 
I'll use this calibration disc to refine the above and edit the values.


As is, the calibration shows slight shift from green to purple as brightness advances.
This is about what I expected, since I applied green uniformly and the blue-push
seems to snowball at higher brightness levels.
New levels input above to reflect the change to the gray scale balance.
Some red and green clipping are tolerated to keep the picture vivid.
The LED light source is very rich in blue, so no clipping there...
The picture looks the same as before the calibration disc, but much faster-produced!
Edited by johnfull - 7/5/12 at 4:43am
post #3 of 69
Thread Starter 
I decided to try cleaning up the 'User' setting to try and get a better picture.
The 'Standard' setting is completely dedicated to a bright picture with minimum power consumption.
I believe this is related to getting certified with an Energy Star rating.
The picture on 'Standard' is bright at half power, but the whites are raw blue straight from the LEDs and
the color doesn't blend properly with the shades of gray slightly less intense, no matter how much altered in the 10-point scale.
'Movie' proves to have too many chromatic aberrations to use as an everyday setting, especially with the Wide Gamut setting.
So I've tried 'User' and set it to Medium Low color temperature. Then I suppressed the red in both Hi and Lo setting (not the 10-point)
and boosted the green in both. It makes a smoother transition from gray to extreme white. The only drawback is increased power
from the LEDs set at 75% instead of 50% with the Standard setting. I think it is worth the extra power consumption to keep control
over the whites all the way to the top of the spectrum. Also, the Standard setting seemed to have a bizarre color squelch of some sort.
Pictures that were mostly shades of gray would render with pure black and white with only colored areas in patches. Very seldom would
the grays have any coloration at all. I'm thinking that this is part of the same energy-saving scheme, where raw blue is mixed probably
with the yellow pixel to make a monochrome that is always the exact same neutral shade. The User setting doesn't squash color like that.
The Sharpness has less ringing as well. So far, I see only upside to the User setting, except for increased power consumption...
post #4 of 69
Hi John. I really appreciate your post.

I just got this TV set up today (after using a projection TV for the last 17 years!) so am blown away. I tried the settings that CGGorman had posted for the 847 since it is a sister TV to this but it seemed to make the screen a bit too washed out.

Could you post the settings that you finally landed with?
post #5 of 69
Thread Starter 
I'll write them down and post them shortly.
Be sure to burn a copy of the DVD for calibrating.
Use the step white scale and the 10-point temperature calibration.
Start with Medium-Low for color temperature on the User quality setting.
The medium-low starts out reddish, so remove red from all whitness ranges and add green and blue.
You should end up with a white that is ever so slightly blue/green instead of yellow/red.
It's easier to work from the redder and move toward blue than the other direction on these LED TVs.
That's the reason to start with medium-low. That's it!
I turned off all the special effects as I had done with the Standard setting.
This picture is much more subtle in color tone, doesn't clip, and is stable across multiple sources.
Like I say, I'll post the values, but this is the strategy to start with. Good luck!
post #6 of 69
Thread Starter 
As promised:

AV Mode: User
Backlight: +8
Contrast: +33
Color: -5
Sharpness: +10
(all others; 0)

CMS Hue: All 0

CMS Saturation:
R, Y, M: -5
All others: 0

CMS Value:

R, Y, M: -5
All others: 0

Color Temp: Mid-Low
Gamma: +2

OPC Range:
Max: +16
Min: 0

All motion effects and active contrast are OFF

Oddly, I was able to access the 10-point color temperature scale when I set up, but it is grayed out now.
The simpler Hi/Lo temperature (drive/screen) controls are all set to 0.
Since I know that I changed the color temperature, I'm baffled as to how the 10-Point got grayed out.
I reduced the Red the maximum amount throughout the entire range and boosted the green maximally and
the blue to an intermediate degree, depending on the band. With the disc, it's a simple matter of making the
corresponding stepped scale gray tones look uniform in color with their surroundings -- all slightly cool blue/green.

If anyone has a clue as to why the 10-Point scale got grayed out, please let me know! Fortunately, my white temp was saved...
post #7 of 69
Thread Starter 
Even stranger -- yesterday, there was a notice on the screen that said a software update was available. It didn't even identify the TV (rather than the satellite box or BluRay) as
the appliance in need of an update. I had to click ok or cancel, so I said ok. The picture didn't look as good when it was done and I went into the menu again and the 10-point
scale was once again available! I used the calibration disc to clean up one dirty portion of the white gamut and it looked better than ever. I have no idea what was updated, but
this morning I was going to add the 10-point settings to the above set and it was grayed out again! I guess I would have to switch the color temp to a different setting to get it
back, but I fear losing the settings that I like so well. I have no idea why the update dirtied a narrow band of the white spectrum (too much red) nor why it opened the 10-point
scale to usage again, nor why again that usage is now locked up. Weird. At least I have a really pleasing picture. Wish I could share the 10-point post-update numbers...
post #8 of 69
the release notes for the update say it improves 1080p/30fps display.
post #9 of 69
Thread Starter 
Where did you find release notes?
post #10 of 69
release notes are here, next to the firmware link: http://www.sharpusa.com/CustomerSupport/ProductDownloads.aspx?model=LC-70C8470U
post #11 of 69
Thread Starter 
post #12 of 69
Do you finally have 10 points post update number? I'd love to try it out. About 10 points kept greyed out. Not sure if this post below from CNEt will help.

On" since it's the only way to make adjustments

by katzmaier - 12/12/11 6:02 AM

In Reply to: I figured it out. by DYAUSWINTERS

Sharp's menu design is confusing. You have to adjust BOTH 2 and 10-point settings. To adjust the 2-point setting you have to turn the "10 point settings" setting Off; afterward, turn it On to adjust the ten points (using the Position slider as you seem to have discovered). The actual "On/Off" position of the "10 point settings" switch has no impact on the picture itself.
post #13 of 69
Thread Starter 
Grayed-out means there is no possibility of turning it on.
I set the 10-point scale after having set the temperature to Medium-Low.
It now displays the simple scale of Hi and Lo settings of each RGB color and all those are shown at middle value.
But the actual setting was done with the 10-point scale, which I can no longer access.
I think it would show up again if I changed the Temperature, but I think I would then lose my values.
You need to use the calibration disc that is provided on this site and I recommend the stepped white scale to isolate
the point of the gamut which each of the 10-point settings impacts -- it isn't evenly distributed by any means.
I lowered the Red setting to minimum for every part of the gamut and raised the Green to maximum.
I then used the Blue to bring up a cool blue/green white tone that I prefer as a catch-all setting.
It masks the differences of face tones from one source to the next by minimizing the red and yellow components.
It makes for an overall pleasing picture that covers the color gamut nicely. I don't know why red is pushed so hard
in the standard settings. It makes everything look terrible! There is plenty of vibrant red with that setting at minumum.

Likewise, if you use the Standard setting instead of User, you have too much red-push and additionally have problems
with the white highlights being uncontrollable blue. This setting is only there to give maximum brightness with minimal backlight.
It is good only if you absolutely need maximum brightness. I was able to run it at 50% and have User at 75% to get the same brightness.
Since there is still margin to spare, I prefer the more controlled setting of User over the Standard setting...
post #14 of 69
Thread Starter 
I've since discovered that using lower Contrast setting and then using the Dynamic Contrast and re-setting the Brightness allows the Backlight to run at 50%.
I still have no access to the 10-Point scale...
post #15 of 69
I really appreciate this thread as I just purchased this TV. I am still going thru all the settings. The "user" setting you calibrated is by far the best picture. The only issue is for sports viewing.

Have you tried calibrating the "movie" setting? It should let you have access to the 10 point scale. If I had the calibration DVD I would try it myself.

I love this TV so far. I am working on the jittery movement when I watch fast action movies or sports. Someone mentioned using "film mode" on another site. I will try it out and let you all know if it helps.
post #16 of 69
Thread Starter 
There is a DVD available on this site for download to calibrate from.
I have all the motion features turned off and only have jitters when the source has them.
Most sports that are shot live are completely clear in fast motion.
Are you using over the air, cable or satellite? Mine is Dish Network and I get excellent signals.
You might see if a DVD has the problem as well.
I have considered turning on the Advanced setting, but have left it alone since most sources are smooth...
post #17 of 69
I have directv and the signal is pretty good. My issues (shaky, jittery)are coming from watching movies on Apple TV. I never noticed them before on my Sony. It could be the movie itself or the fact that this TV is much larger so the shaky camera shots are much more noticable.

I'll try out the calibration disc on this site. I have also been recommended the Disney WOW calibration disc. Would you recommend?
post #18 of 69
Thread Starter 
I haven't tried the Disney WOW disc. I don't have calibration equipment or filters, so I was limited to using the stepped white scale to reduce the blue highlights
and then balance the white across the entire brightness, followed with the continuous white scale to notice any coloration along the gamut. I then used the CMS
to reduce the clipping in the red and magenta colors, which is caused by the blue predominance in the backlight -- just not enough red at high intensity.
I bumped the red slightly towards green to make the highlights less blue and kept the true red color intact. It's much better without that ugly blue highlight.
You can try fiddling with the motion controls. I'm satisfied with getting what is delivered to the set -- choppy video shows like it is sent, rather than smoothed.
If you've ever noticed, movie theaters running at 24 frames per second are a bit choppy. The bigger screen TVs to give you more to notice in peripheral vision...
post #19 of 69
I did find a cure for the stuttering picture with my Apple TV. I switched to game mode and that seems to do the trick. Only problem now is getting the calibration right to optimize the picture. Your settings on "user" mode are excellent for everything else, DirecTV, Blu Ray etc.

I'll post the settings for game mode once I get a chance.
post #20 of 69
Thread Starter 
Interesting and thanks! I had a subscription to NetFlix when I bought the TV and it had a problem with the picture and sound being out of synch most of the time.
I wonder if the Game Mode would have helped that? I've read elsewhere that there is far less 'processing' in Game mode to reduce the lag time, but I don't know
quite what processing that could be. I think I will tinker with Game Mode when I get the chance and see what kind of picture it renders when nicely calibrated.
Hey, it's good to know that my calibrations for User Mode work for you. I had also calibrated the Standard Mode (default) and posted those settings in the calibration
forum before doing the User Mode. I am much happier with the settings for User Mode because the white highlights are less blue. The Standard Mode had the
advantage of using less backlight for the same apparent brightness, so you might want to look at that. Do a search under my name in the Calibration Forum to find it.
As for Movie Mode, I find that the color decoding is faulty for that mode -- especially with the Expanded Gamut turned on. I didn't get a satisfactory picture for that
setting, but I'll go back to it and try again eventually. It has the huge advantage of a warm white tone to begin with.
I put on the 3D glasses and switched to 2D->3D mode to calibrate the 3D picture. It had started out so dark and overly contrasty. I haven't tried a movie since then.
I worry about the white LED light source and wonder how many hours of use I'll get before the yellow phosphor burns off enough to change the backlight color to
a bluer shade of white -- it's already borderline at the start. There isn't much room to remove more blue and the red is already so weak relative to blue and green...
post #21 of 69
Hi to all all from a new joiner. I just purchased a new 70" 847 for my man cave and found this site looking for some custom calibrations to try. I have never experimented with custom calibrations before but thought I would give them a try.

Before I posted this, I went back to the first posts in April and started reading when everyone was first getting these sets and saw their excitement and after reading a couple hundred, I skipped forward hoping that by now some of you tech oriented guys have done some experimenting with calibrations that I could start out with and modify to my own taste.

I will spend the time to do that and try many, buy if there are any big obvious do's or don't anyone would offer as starting points, please do so as I'm starting from scratch as to Sharp, their apps and calibrating.
Also, at the same time I bought the Sharp, I switched from Brighthouse to Verizon FIOS and something odd happened. When Verizon tried to do an HDMI hookup, there was no sound. They ended up doing component cables which surprised me although the quality is the same. The Verizon tech told me they have had some problems with Sharp products and HDMI sound and going to component or lower has been the only workaround to date. Anyone have this same problem?

I also had more trouble than expected with the wireless hook up although it finally did work.

I'm very disapponted with the Sharp apps compared to Samsung. Perhaps I may buy another Samsung wifi DVD and use it for my video wifi.

I purchased mine at hhgregg during their early October sale where it was $3002 minus $400 so $2602 plus tax. I also bought a couple of their new ( for Florida stores) power recliners on sale at $998 (pair) -$100 = $898 plus tax plus $99 delivery. Of course I was pleased to see the Columbus day "sale" was not for this set but for the lesser rated 640:).

So enough for now and please give me your recommendations and suggestions as I am a sponge.

Thanks In advance.
post #22 of 69
Thread Starter 
Start with the 'User' setting instead of 'Standard' to create an everyday screen.
Go to the color temperature and select 'Medium Low' to start with.
Set the backlight a couple of notches below the middle position and adjust contrast
upwards until you get a satisfactory highlight level in brightly-lit scenes.
Return to the color temperature and fine-tune the while color balance as follows:
Adjust the highlights to remove some of the red and blue and add some green
until you get a nice white color -- use the little white chevron on the front of the
TV as a guide to a good white, though it is a bit on the pink side for my taste.
Use the CMS to reduce the red and green intensity and brightness so they don't clip.
Set the OPC to '0' for a minimum and '100%' for maximum.
post #23 of 69
Jonfll, thanks full thanks for the starter tips. Excuse my lack of knowledge but when you say "reduce the red and green intensity and brightness so they don't clip." what does that mean. Have you ever posted your most recent settings or would you care to share them? Thanks again
post #24 of 69
Thread Starter 
I've tinkered with the settings and I will post them as soon as possible again.
The CMS under the Advanced Settings is where you can manipulate the individual colors, for tint, brightness, and saturation.
The LED light source is heavy on blue, so the green and red have to overdrive to keep up with maximum intensity.
This results in colors turning blue as they get brighter or just saturating too soon -- reds and magentas get purple highlights
and grass turns radioactive glowing green. Turning down the Blue in the highlight first and then turning down these colors
in the CMS -- a combination of brightness and saturation works best -- will give a balanced picture. Start getting the white looking good.
The last page of the Advanced settings has a Monochrome setting that you can use to get the whites and grays neutral.
I like a very slight blue/green cast to the white to keep fleshtones from being overly saturated with red (red push).
Again, I'll post my settings for you -- maybe tomorrow...
post #25 of 69
Jonful, thanks, I did ventur forth a bit today and am looking forwar to yor choices versud my amateur eye. I also ran across a settin set posted earlier on lctvbuyingguide.com but haven't tried it yet. I did notice that apparently the audio settings also move with each video setting which seems obvious but I hadn't thought of initially.
post #26 of 69
Thread Starter 
It looks like the settings may vary from one input to another as well.
I have a setting that I made with the calibration disc in a BluRay player, connnected through HDMI.
Another setting seems to show up when using the satellite box through a different HDMI input.
One of them has access to the 10-point white temperature scale (satellite) and the other does not (BluRay).
It's maddeningly complicated, but the effort pays off in a very good picture when you're done.
Did you make a copy of the DVD calibration disc available on this forum?
The stepped white scale is very helpful in getting an even and desirable white/gray scale.
Mine had started out very blue at the bright end and very red at the dark end.
Green had to be added at both ends (and the middle in the 10 point) and the exaggerated colors toned down a bit.
I'll try to find time tomorrow to write down and transcribe my final settings (maybe from the satellite and the BluRay both).
There is also the 3D setting which I have calibrated, but have not yet checked the final settings with a movie as yet.
post #27 of 69
Thanks again. I haven't even got to the 3D yet as my kids are long gone but my grand kids may be here in a couple weeks. Most of my movies are torrent downloads and I've never worried about 3d before as I never had a 3d set. Now I'm wondering if any of these torrents are 3d's or not and if so, will they run off the thumb drive and show as a 3d. Or am I pretty much locked into using a service like Amazon, or Vudo or renting/buying a 3d dvd. I'm charging one of the pair of glasses that came with the set so I haven't tried them with any of the torrents yet.

Any body out ther tried any torrent 3d downloads?

Again John thanks. I thought I would get a few more replies from other but you have been very helpful
post #28 of 69
Thread Starter 
My settings -- and it is indeed true that HDMI input #1 has no access to the 10 point temperature scale but #2 does, so I left it turned off on my final setting:

AV Mode -- (USER)
Backlight -- (-4)
Contrast -- (+34)
Brightness -- (0)
Color -- (-8)
Tint -- (0)
Sharpness -- (+10)


CMS Hue -- (All at 0)

CMS Saturation --
R -- (-5)
Y -- (-5)
G -- (0)
C -- (0)
B -- (-5)
M -- (-5)

CMS Value --
R -- (-5)
Y -- (-5)
G -- (0)
C -- (0)
B -- (+3)
M -- (0)

Color Temperature -- Mid Low
R-Low -- (-10)
G-Low -- (-4)
B-Low -- (+5)
R-High -- (-4)
G-High -- (0)
B-High -- (-10)

Motion Enhancement -- Off
Active Contrast -- Off
Gamma -- (0)
Film Mode -- Off
Digital Noise Reduction -- Auto
OPC Range -- Max (16) Min (0)
Edited by johnfull - 10/30/12 at 5:16am
post #29 of 69
My issues with this TV is that I lose all detail with whites. For example, when watch sports... say Hockey... I lose detail on the Ice. Or in football/baseball I see no creases or wrinkles... just a 'glowing' white. Like a super bright, perfectly uniform white but so bright that I lose details.
post #30 of 69
btw, there is definitely a difference in settings between this and the 847. I've used settings suggestions for the 847 and applied them to the 845u and they're WAY OFF. WAY WAY...

Not sure what is different, but the settings for the 847 do not translate to the 845.
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