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Sharp LC-70LE845U - Overcoming the Blues on the 70" edge-lit 3D Quattron - Page 2

post #31 of 69
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by CaneDawgg View Post

My issues with this TV is that I lose all detail with whites. For example, when watch sports... say Hockey... I lose detail on the Ice. Or in football/baseball I see no creases or wrinkles... just a 'glowing' white. Like a super bright, perfectly uniform white but so bright that I lose details.

What you're describing is 'white clipping' and this set does have that problem out of the box -- particularly with the Standard setting. Movie is best to remove it, but is very dull.
The problem is the blue cast of the LEDs that illuminate the pixels. In order to keep brightness up, the green, yellow, and red pixels clip while the blue is within range.
The DVD calibration disc available on this site shows the color scales and you can see that red saturates first and then green while blue keeps the full range.
The Contrast setting is the way to turn down overall White brightness, but you'll want to adjust the color temperature of the white first. If you use the 10-point scale, pay most
attention to the top setting -- it's the one that clips. Back way off on it's blue setting and then adjust the green and red to get a neutral white. Then make the rest of the spectrum
match in color temperature to what you have created at the highlight end. Out of the box, the gray scale is red in the shadows and blue in the highlights, so you'll want to add
green across the entire spectrum to balance those other two colors. Then remove some red at the bottom and some blue at the top. That was my strategy anyway...
post #32 of 69
Thread Starter 
You can try monkeying around with the Gamma setting to keep more of the white highlights. I had originally used +2 to keep the blacks and whites in tighter control,
but switched to '0' because it gives more 'snap' to the image. Maybe a +1 would render the picture the way you like, with adequate contrast, but without any burn-through.
I do still notice some white clipping. I settled on this contast setting because it rarely shows burn-through on faces on the news channels, while still rendering highlights
adequately to avoid 'clay face' syndrome -- where faces become lifeless with all the same luminance. There is no one perfect setting for all sources. You have to decide
what's important to you and go with it -- and modify it when you change your mind!...
post #33 of 69
Hey Johnfull.. thanks a ton for your most recent settings. They're about as good as its going to get... Enjoyed the weekend with the settings and the white clipping was much better and color seemed quite a bit more accurate. Been using your settings for the past month or so and you helped me get the most out of the set.

(Today is my last day with the set, though as I'm exchanging this for the Sony 65X950 set.)
post #34 of 69
Thread Starter 
Glad to help!
Happy trails with the Sony...
post #35 of 69
I bought a Sharp LC70C6400 three weeks ago for $2k. Now Sams has the 847 for $2,500. I am tempted. Dont care about 3D but I do want a good, calibrated picture. Is the Quatron a better panel? Is it worth the extra $500? Does it have a better a picture?
post #36 of 69
Do two simple things. Read the Consumer Reports tests test from a few monts ago. The 640series was, by far, on of the lowest scoring flat screens in any size by any maker. I believe it scored a 70 while other "low" scores were 80's which is a significant difference. Go to a store Hhgregg has both sets) and look at them sise by side. Ask the sale person to take them off the store or dynamic setting, put them on the same default setting, you choose which one, and compare. First the 847 is a 240 set and ysome blurrin in fast motion in 120 sets. But for me, there was no comparison in the picture. For me, at the time the cost diff was only about $300 plus I got a pair of glasses with the 847. Bottom line is buy what you can afford to like!
post #37 of 69
Thread Starter 
The extra $500 is mostly going for the bigger screen size, isn't it?
post #38 of 69
The extra $500 is mostly going for the bigger screen size, isn't it?

No. The 70C6400 (Cosco/Sams version of the 640) is $2000, the 70LE847 is $2500. The extra $500 is for 3D, etc I guess.
post #39 of 69
Hey Johnfull I have a question. I bought the Model: LC-70LE845U and like it so far. I did have a 55 inch samsung plasma. I do understand the plasma's seem to be brighter. I am a huge sport nut!! I tried using your calibrations you posted seem to be pretty good. Is this the best calibraition for sports? Just looking for the best spotrs picture. Seems you kinda have to get used to this TV am I right? Never have had a LED TV, always plasmas. Thanks for any input.
post #40 of 69
Thread Starter 
I've calibrated the TV for both 'Standard' and 'User' modes.
The Standard mode is brighter for any given backlight setting, owing to the use of more of the native LED light source.
This means that color skews towards blue with higher brightness and the white highlights are definitely ice cold blue.
These settings were my attempt to remove as much of this nonlinearity as possible, but it still ended up somewhat blue.
Then I discovered the 'User' mode and found it much easier to bring into good performance, with pleasing whites and accurate colors.
It requires more backlighting for the same final brightness. I notice that LED TVs in sports bars are all running in 'torch mode', with
extremely blue whites in order to keep overall brightness as high as possible. Maybe you want all the snap without all the accuracy?
Sports look pleasing on these settings, with natural colors, but maybe a bit less 'pop' than you might want.
I recently ran across an item that described a backlight source that uses 4 elements instead of the blue LED and yellow phosphor
of most sets, including mine. It would help a lot to have a source for stronger reds. Reds and magentas clip into blue very easily until
the CMS is backed off. I really detest the look of blued-out reds -- it reminds me of old CRT color sets that had weak red phosphors.
I like my TV ok, but if they ever sell a kit to improve the backlight spectrum, I'll jump on that bandwagon...
post #41 of 69
Will it help if I had best buy come and calibrate it?
post #42 of 69
Thread Starter 
My settings for Standard and especially for User are good enough for me.
I would recommend that you try those first to see how much better a calibration can make the set look.
I should tackle Movie mode next -- I have a setting for Standard 3D that is still in testing -- it's caused a bit of ghosting so far
and needs tweaking before releasing on this forum. Attempts to brighten the mid-tones is the culprit, I think...
post #43 of 69
Thread Starter 
I have the tiniest issue with extreme bright highlights -- glare off of teeth, etc., but not white script or subtitles -- turning green.
To keep the color curve with just the two point adjustment, I have to put up with that.
If I go back into the 10 point setting and make the same curve, minus the top green, I'd be 100% happy...
post #44 of 69
johfull, as I read through the two Sharp sites I was wondering why you keep different settings on differeny titles ie User, standard, etc. Is it so you have different "style" available for certain videeo quality, etc? Also aren't the changeable features the same except on the "fixed" setting. I've noticed a couple such as the 10 point become available depending if i select the yes or no bar but other than that everthing sems to be the same.
post #45 of 69
Thread Starter 
They are different templates or algorithms. Standard is set up internally to maximize brightness. It takes far more corrective action to make a neutral white level
starting from the Mid-Low color temperature setting as opposed to the same setting in User. Movie is even more different and I have yet to tackle it because the
color gamut is so bizarre there. I had originally assumed that each setting was just a different set of preset values, but they are differently configured as to algorithm.
You can see for yourself that PC will never look the same as Movie and then there are the Fixed Contrast and Dynamic settings which are totally different as well.
Also, each input varies, with the #2 HDMI input capable of 10-point color temperature calibration, but the #1 only capable of 2-point. In order to get rid of the
green extreme highlights, I am now going to use the 10-point scale and I will post my best result when I am satisfied. 3D calibration of gamut and black level (brightness)
is going to require some major tinkering and viewing. I've seen the limits of the technology when I tried to brighten the mid-tones and ended up with shimmer and ghosts.
post #46 of 69
Thread Starter 
I've got a 10-point setting that I can post now -- duplicating the look of the 2-point setting above, but without the extreme highlights turning green.
Less white clipping, too.
This is for USER and set to Mid-low temperature:

Red Green Blue
Position 1 (darkest)

10 (brightest) 0 0 0 (mid-setting)

It should be noted that the calibration disc does not register the extreme high brightness level.
I set it to neutral because the Mid-low color temperature that I started with is satisfactorily white in extreme highlights.
I've removed the 10-Point settings after watching a black and white movie -- overall green cast with beige highlights -- yuck!
The problem lies in the fact that the calibration disc doesn't extent into the upper reaches of the brightness scale.
I'll try again and submit the modifications when they are good enough. Meantime, stick with the 2-Point scale. Sorry!

I left the 2-point temperature scale where I had it set above and all other values are the same.
I may have to modify the CMS settings to either boost or reduce the Red if reds are too dull or if there is red clipping.
I don't think I'll have to do that since I went through all those settings before and have only slightly altered my original 10-point setting here...
Edited by johnfull - 12/1/12 at 2:56am
post #47 of 69
Thread Starter 
Well I see pagination destroyed my carefully crafted columns!
The readings are all RGB from left to right...
post #48 of 69
Intersting. I did not realize that. Is that true for bot the 845 and the 847? I noticed one thing on my 847 that "seemed" to be different from some posts. While I was tinkering withsome settings, I was able to access the 10 point settings and I am using HDMI1. While I also have a componet wire hook up, I was not using it/addressing at the time so I don't thing that should have any impact. I have never used HDMI2 so when I saw the 10 point scal and the box giving me the choice to use it I recalled the discussion. Again, what I didn't recal if this was an 845 thing, an 847 thing or both but, I did get to that point.

Again on my question on your different settings, do you use them for different types of viewing based on the input ie cable, pc, etc you are watching or the line quality, specific network program channel quality or some other aspect or just to have a different "view" to look at?

Thanks agin.
post #49 of 69
Thread Starter 
I thought that I might use different settings for different inputs, but this hasn't proven necessary for my uses.
I use Satellite and BluRay and both look very good with the calibrated picture. I recommend the 10-Point settings just posted
because they add a lot of snap and subtlety to the picture. I'm noticing a little bit of banding in some advertisements, but I can't
tell yet if it is the discontinuity in the 10-Point scale between brightness levels or if it's in the source -- hopefully, it's the latter.
Now, I need to try some 3D sources and see if my calibration of that mode is sufficient for posting.
post #50 of 69
Thread Starter 
I removed the 10-Point settings for now. The color is so much better, but in black and white, there was a green cast and highlights were way too warm.
The calibration disc doesn't extend to the upper highlights, so I have to do those by the seat of my pants, so to speak. I shall return. Meantime, 2-Point is ok...
post #51 of 69
Thread Starter 
Anybody know how to control the aspect ratio on these Sharp sets?
It plays new BluRay material and 3D flawlessly, but some older titles stretch and flatten inappropriately and I don't know how to correct the problem.
I have a Denon 3D BluRay and a cheapie Dynex DVD player and they both render these poorly. Older TVs had picture size controls, but I can't find it on this one.
post #52 of 69
Your Blu-Ray player should be able to automatically show 4x3 material with black side bars. Sometimes this is a player setting to do this vs having it stretched. The "View Mode" button on the Sharp remote will adjust the aspect ratio manually.
post #53 of 69
Thread Starter 
It has more problem with the intermediate-sized stuff than 4x3 -- 185 - something-or-other.
I played the DVD of Young Doctor Frankenstein (and found my 10-point settings all wrong) in a squashed and stretched aspect.
I tried it with two different machines and the squashing was worse with the BluRay player, but the cheap DVD machine did a weird fish-eye thing to it as well.
I have no idea why it couldn't read the proper ratio. The 'View Mode' had 'Dot for Dot' which did not solve the problem. It seems to be delivered to the TV distorted
through both machines. The BluRay is HDMI-connected, of course, but the cheapie Dynex DVD is just RCA jacks.
I had a problem with one other disc recently -- can't recall what it was -- but it was an older title as well and stretched rather than properly rendering...
post #54 of 69
Thread Starter 
I got it. The Denon has an Auto-squeeze setting that cleared it up.
The small Dynex machine has a grayed out option, but it's rarely used for movies.
post #55 of 69
Thread Starter 
I've got a set of 10-point values that are very good with black and white material as well as color.
I've tamed the white clipping a bit more and have a slightly warm balance from top to bottom with no green, red, yellow, or blue cast.

I'll post it as soon as I get time...later today or tomorrow...
post #56 of 69
Thread Starter 
Went back to get the 10-point settings to post and found the TV had changed to Standard Mode and 2-Point and no access to 10-Point!
Buggy software in these galldarned teevees. That's not the first time I've lost settings. Neither HDMI 1 nor 2 will now allow 10-Point in User Mode.
Did I mention goddamnitalltohell?...
post #57 of 69
Thread Starter 
Updated settings for the Standard Mode and 3D Mode:

post #58 of 69
Hi Johnfull. Just wanted to say thanks for all your hard work on calibrating these big Sharps. I know it must have taken quite a bit of time to get them just right. I found this thread when I was researching the lc-70le845u before purchasing. Glad I found it! When I bought it and got it home I was VERY disappointed with the picture straight out of the box( fortunately my wife didn't see it or she would have freaked). I was prepared with the calibrations you posted and within a couple of minuted had the picture looking better than it did in the store. I've been slowly getting everything set the way I want. One question... We're you able to change the settings for each input? If so, how we're you able to do it? I've been clicking around and haven't been able to figure it out. Any tips you or anyone else may have would be appreciated. Again, thanks.
post #59 of 69
Thread Starter 
It looks like all the inputs use the same settings for each Input setting, but you could use User for one and Standard for another and Movie for yet another, etc.
I found that User didn't allow access to the 10-point setting in the first HDMI input, but did with the second, so there are some issues per input.
I've been told that 845 and 847 are different in their settings, so I'm glad to know that mine were at least a point of departure.
If nothing else, it shows a lot of the range of what is possible. There are several strategies to get to a good picture, too...
post #60 of 69
Hi i Just bought new 847u I live in Calgary AB Canada
I have tired alot of different setting but seem to be getting weird colors the reds are really domminent just dont look right anyone know someone who can calibrate in calgary for decent price if not what does john mean by
Color Temperature 10-Point = ON:
1) R = -30, G = +30, B = 30
2) R = -23, G = -30, B = -10
3) R = -14, G = +11, B = -10
4) R = -13, G = +11, B = -10
5) R = -9, G = +15, B = -10
6) R = -5, G = +15, B = -12
7) R = -5, G = +10, B = -14
8) R = +6, G = +18, B = -13
9) R = -4, G = +10, B = -23
10) R = -16, G = 0, B = -30

I didnt understand how to set that part

Thanks alot guys I have dishnetwork HD/ and blueray
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