6 DIY eD A7S-650 kits with FP14K clone - Page 8

That is what happened to my friends that live near me, they have all my old systems, this one is just a little over the top for most. I can't express how good this system sounds though. I just had my friend over last night who thinks his system is a good as it gets and no reason to ever change and he actually made a comment about the system. He owns a Pioneer elite SC-25 running his SHO-10 theater with an 18.1 sub and he mentioned how good my system sounds.

I am just posting this for my reference and I know where to find them in one spot. I am comparing the different sub systems with correct mics. Meaning, With REW and RS meter I used C-weight only with no cal files and the newer stuff with my calibrated behringer mic. Here are some comparisons.

8 eD 190v2's sealed



4 cinema F-20's(I don't know why they were smoothed)



4 CHT 18,2's



with omnimic



Dual Danley DTS-10's



6 eD A7s-650's

Here are my items for sale. I would also post in the classifieds(where or how?)

Ada MPA-500 monster 5 channel amp(I can get these repaired if need be)-$1000
This comes with a separate power supply and a 4 gauge connector cable.

DIY passive eD A7S-650's(200 pounds each 4 ohm)-$400/each

I can take these apart and sell the drivers and or cabs, $150 per driver.

FP14K clone-$750 shipped.

If you drive I will help you with gas money. I would rather not take them apart. I might keep some drivers for a project though but I can let at least half of them go and if you want them all then well, I will let them go. 1200 pounds of subs.

You can have them all but I sold the amp.

Hey Guys, I have a question. How does one account for room gain with Winisd? I would think designing a sub for a room knowing what response you would get in room would be nice so I started messing around a little. Here is what I came up with and the guys in the know please correct me if I am wrong.

Here are my sealed subs in winisd:



Now here is my in room response with no EQ:



Now I added a LT in winisd and here is how it modeled:



I used the power needed to get my max spl limited to 10% THD at 10hz. As you can see it looks just like my in room response.

So here is my question, If I model any other sub including ported should I add the same LT to it to see what it would be in room? This makes sense to me and explains why ported subs always feel more visceral to me but also over the top.

Here was a winisd model of my 4 LLT's with my 190v2's:



Now lets add the LT to simulate my room gain(I wish I took a response graph of these to confirm):



Now you guys can see why LLT's in my room feel like are more visceral than a sealed setup. The sealed setup in room is flat as confirmed by my in room measurements and the LLT even tuned around 13hz has an 8 dB peak in the low teens all the way to 10hz. This is why the DTS10 had a peak down low in my room as well but not as bad because it is not as flat to 12hz by design. So the big question is which is actually a better movie experience? The sealed is much more accurate but the LLT is lots of fun.
Edited by MKtheater - 3/20/13 at 2:54pm

Btw here is the front stage:

Hey Man,
I just mentioned your name on Carp's thread. Yeah, the sonos moved lots of air and they were fun. I could have just stopped there and been happy. I like the sound of these better though(deeper sounding) and was wondering if I turned them into LLT's what would happen. As you said already there is no need as I get plenty of output as is. I was running the subs 5 dBs hot with I think and now I am running them 9 dBs hot and they are blasting me! For anyone who thinks they need more with their multiples just turn them up and you will realize you already have enough.

BTW, I have new equipment running the show now, A brand new 14K and new processor and amp. I know people think everything sounds the same but you need to hear it again. I have a Meridian 861 and a Nakamichi amp which is only rated at 100 x 5 into 8 ohms. You thought maybe my speakers sound better because I had more power but now you should hear it. It is not the power!

I think I am keeping them now.

Here is what WinISD says would be the difference between what I have now to turning them into LLT's:

Yes it is

I would never add an LT to a ported sub, this particular LT is how my room gain effects subwoofers. I was showing how my response from winisd turned into my LP with my sealed subs. I used the power to reach what I get at my LP with 10hz and 10% THD, so less than max power. This LT is how my room naturally brings up the bottom to sealed subs. I was trying to show how if I put LLT subs in my room this is what would happen naturally from my room gain. Basically it takes a sealed sub that is 12 dBs down at 10hz and makes them flat so a LLT which is only down around 3-4 dBs at 10hz would have a big peak around tune in room and why I would bet some LLT's have huge bass effects in rooms like mine(sealed).

OK, did some figuring out last night and found out that all my THD graphs were bogus and about 10 dBs too high. I took new sweeps of my current subs and THD and now I know what it would take for any driver from data-bass.com to achieve in my room. It is simple, I gain 9 dBs of spl at 10hz from Josh's outside measurements and any multiples add accordingly. I figured out that my driver would measure about the same as the LMSR 12. My goal has always been 130 dBs(I don't know why) and to get there I need many more drivers. However, the movie experience is better than ever so now I am not so sure I need all that headroom. Here are some comparisons of older responses to what I have now so you can see the different rolloff slopes and it seems my meridian rolls off a couble dBs earlier than did the Ada. Of course any of this could be setup or user error. I hope Bosso chimes in hear so he can add his opinion as well. So when I was showing the Cinema F-20s hitting 110 dBs at 10hz they were really hitting 100 dBs. The CHTs were really hitting 112 dBs at 10hz and these hit 115 dBs at 10hz. This is all 10% THD limited. I really worked on getting an accurate measurement because I knew my room was much harder than some of your bigger rooms as high spl is concerned. I lose 12 dBs at 4 meters which is like outside! Some of you have more room gain than me in rooms over twice the size! Of course unless you were making mistakes in measurements as well. So when I read that people are hitting 130 dBs with two subs I have to question that. Not at 20hz and below for sure! I don't care about 30hz and above as that is easy to high spls. Here are some old and now the newest sweep. Some of these were with the mains and my recent ones last night were subs only with a 80hz crossover.

CHT response with no EQ(-5 dBs at 10hz from 20hz): with mains



F-20 response with no EQ(-11 dBs at 10hz) again these sweeps were really 102 dBs at 10hz and 116 dBs at 20hz. with mains



eD 190v2s witn no EQ(-6 dBs at 10hz) with mains



DTS-10s with no EQ(-5 dBs at 8.5 Hz!)with mains



eD 13vv2 with no EQ(-2 dBs at 10hz from 20hz) NO MAINS



Now this last graph I did last night. These sweeps were limited to 10% THD at 10hz. No compression but THD starts rising. It makes sense because I was -4 dBs on my amp which is over 5000 watts and the max these subs could take is 7800 watts. So do I need more? I think so! Although my movie experience is awesome. I have been thinking about making these LLT's to gain about 12 dBs from 10-30hz!

I really just want to know what I am getting for real. I know these are the best low end subs so if they measure this low then the others were less for sure. These have less rolloff(2 dBs) compared to 5 dBs and 6 dBs of others so those other subs would require two to four times more power to get to the same level as these and they don't handle the power to do so. These should play 10 hz louder and I have 4 more anyways. I think something is off because I played Immortals the other day and measured 122 dBs at my LP with the subs 4 dBs hot which makes that scene 118 dBs which is about right. Those sweeps say I can only hit 116 dBs cleanly so either it was all THD or the graphs were wrong. Music sounds very clean so it can't be THD. I just want to figure this out.

You are correct, I believe something is wrong with my measuring equipment.

Actually you made it seem that I changed my mine in days but it took longer than that. What happened? A couple things. I always wanted to try the RE XXX so I was going to build two 11 hz LLTs instead. I then modeled these in a LLT and I would get much more spl than those two subs. I started thinking about all the work required to take these apart and build LLTs with soccer, T-ball, ballet, and yes the 22 month old as well and tried something totally radical! It saved me lots of time and effort and the bass is now stupid crazy. I turned the bass trim up 9 dBs which would simulate LLTs but still have lower extension. I have been watching movies more than ever and with the new settings and equipment it sounds incredible. I was going to almost give these away like an idiot and would have if someone jumped on them just because I don't mind change. These are not the most powerful with the most displacement but they are linear down low and rolloff very little just like the big boys. You just need lots of them to get there. Well to get crazy SPL's anyways.