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LED or Plasma right now? - Page 5

post #121 of 291
9/9/12 at 5:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phase700B View Post

Yes, if you read through some of the plasma TV threads here on AVS, the pixel noise has caused some to jump into an LED or try other plasma TVs in hopes of finding one that isn;t so bad. The issue you describe is often due to circuitry and firmware that alternates pixel firing to try and lessen image retention and screen burn especially when bright images are on the screen.


Sounds more like you are confusing this with the pixel orbiter? I can see this on my 50" Pioneer 507XD plasma also, which as far as I know don't have a pixel orbiter, but it is not as obvious as I thought it was on the VT50. Of course, there could be other things affecting like screen size, signal etc which is why I'm asking.
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post #122 of 291
9/9/12 at 5:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phase700B View Post

Energy consumption and heat are still factors for plasma. They still use 25% to 40% more power than comparable LED TVs. Go to the local BB and walk past the TVs. You will know you are in front of a plasma as soon as you walk by one and feel the "heat treatment" on your arms or face. Yes, many LCD/LED TVs have a glossy screen, but just as many have matte or semi-matte screens such as my LG42LD550 and even the lowly 26" Sanyo we have in the bedroom. (This TV , BTW, has very good color and black level qualities. . . better than LG, Samsung, and some other brands I tried out. Very uniform screen lighting too.)

Actually, based on the numbers I've seen in reviews like CNET, plasmas of comparable sizes used 100-200% more energy than LCDs. Of course, these numbers could be different depending on content, but I assume tests performed by CNET etc. is based on some kind of science.

Some examples:

http://www.digitalversus.com/tv-television/sony-bravia-kdl-55hx923-p11157/test.html
http://www.digitalversus.com/tv-television/panasonic-viera-tx-p50vt50-p13511/test.html

(Rember that these are European modells so the VT50 is light capped over here compared to US versions)
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post #123 of 291
9/9/12 at 5:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by improwise View Post

Sounds more like you are confusing this with the pixel orbiter? I can see this on my 50" Pioneer 507XD plasma also, which as far as I know don't have a pixel orbiter, but it is not as obvious as I thought it was on the VT50. Of course, there could be other things affecting like screen size, signal etc which is why I'm asking.

Well, the way you described your comment it is unclear what you meant so pardon any "confusion". Not sure what you are asking then, other than the sometimes persistent plasma noise issues which vary depending on brand, model and other factors.

Yes, I agree, that plasma often use 2 times or more the power than LCD/LED, The 25% to 40% figures I mentioned were to the OTHER poster who commented on how plasm aTVS were now more efficient. Perhaps you should mention that to him? rolleyes.gif The figures I sited were at best figures and with peak white levels kept to low values and only certain brand/models. Also, screen size would obviously be a factor. I don't really care because I do not intend to buy a plasma TV.
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post #124 of 291
9/9/12 at 10:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phase700B View Post

Well, the way you described your comment it is unclear what you meant so pardon any "confusion". Not sure what you are asking then, other than the sometimes persistent plasma noise issues which vary depending on brand, model and other factors.
Yes, I agree, that plasma often use 2 times or more the power than LCD/LED, The 25% to 40% figures I mentioned were to the OTHER poster who commented on how plasm aTVS were now more efficient. Perhaps you should mention that to him? rolleyes.gif The figures I sited were at best figures and with peak white levels kept to low values and only certain brand/models. Also, screen size would obviously be a factor. I don't really care because I do not intend to buy a plasma TV.

Why not?
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post #125 of 291
9/9/12 at 10:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by aidoroboo View Post

I might stick to a plasma since you are used to a plasma in that room and the room's light won't change. Unless you think the TV gets too washed out by sunlight or something.
Also the ST50 will probably have the best quality/dollar ratio.
Totally Agree.
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post #126 of 291
9/9/12 at 10:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATC7 View Post

Smart choice. I have the 60GT50 right now and its PQ even without calibration (I only use THX day and night modes) is stunning. Motion, blacks, colour accuracy, off-axis viewing are all top notch. And to top it off it has perfect screen uniformity which is something I have yet to see on an LCD/LED and I've owned quite a few. The only issue for me is that the panel buzzes somewhat loudly when whites or bright scenes are present. For the most part the buzzing is masked by audio but if the volume is low it can be heard. I've been told it's normal but it's definitely louder than my old plasmas (G15 and PZ77). I exchanged it once and the new set buzzes the same so it may well be normal. Whether it's something I can live with remains to be seen. I have it for another week before I decide. It's a shame because if it weren't for the buzzing, IMO it's a dream TV.

100% AGREED.. I have not done a pro calibration on my Panny 60GT50 and it looks Excellent!! I don't think anyone can go wrong with the Panasonic Plasma's unless you just love LED's. Some people do.. my dad loves his. I just prefer a more cinema-like dimmer picture (to me, its still plenty bright) I feel the LED's are too bright and un-natural. :0
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post #127 of 291
9/10/12 at 5:30am
I have the LG LV9500, nano led, 2300 LED's and 280 dimming zones, let me say that I will match this TV with any plasma! When the room is dark and the screen goes total black you can not see this TV. I don't know of any plasma that can do that.
The LV9500 only uses 98 watts full on. How many watts for a plasma?
The only sport I watch is ice hockey,the ice needs to be white,I have owned plasma in the past and their always seemed to be something missing while watching hockey,nice clear ice.
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post #128 of 291
9/10/12 at 10:26am
Well I've had a plasma (50 inch Panasonic) running daily most days 12 hours plus for 8 years, quick caculation that's about 35,000 hours of use and knock on wood it's still delivering a good picuture, doesn't throw off much heat, never made a hum or other sound ever, not even once. The picture has been rock solid.

I define heat this way... if the set has been on a hour or so, yes it is warm to the touch if you touch it at the vent holes, but throw off heat come on... Maybe some that say their sets get hot don't give it good ventalation, which also might account why some sets don't last. As far as costs some have raised plasma vs LED, yes a plasma will cost about twice as much, but we're talking about $110 a year, so that's about .30 cents a day, hardly a factor. Also I've had a couple LED's with far less use one a TV another as a computer monitor and both gave up the ghost in about 3 years. Like I said, my 8 year old plasma is still going strong. So that's a factor too. I might get a OLED in a few years if the rave reviews for the few that's seen them hold up and prices drop by at least half. LOL!
Edited by BillyBoyBlue - 9/10/12 at 10:40am
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post #129 of 291
9/10/12 at 11:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyBoyBlue View Post

Well I've had a plasma (50 inch Panasonic) running daily most days 12 hours plus for 8 years, quick caculation that's about 35,000 hours of use and knock on wood it's still delivering a good picuture, doesn't throw off much heat

Well, "doesn't throw off much heat" isn't much for accuracy. If it's 8 years old it really would be a power gobbler. What model is it? Let's look it up. .wink.gif
You should have a manual that states power consumption, and therefore your "$110 a year more than an LCD/LED" is a guess at best. But 8 years service is certainly good service. But I have two CRT TVs with converter boxes on them up at the vacation cabin and they are 1984 and 1986 models. So?


Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyBoyBlue View Post

I define heat this way... if the set has been on a hour or so, yes it is warm to the touch if you touch it at the vent holes, but throw off heat come on... Maybe some that say their sets get hot don't give it good ventalation, which also might account why some sets don't last. As far as costs some have raised plasma vs LED, yes a plasma will cost about twice as much, but we're talking about $110 a year, so that's about .30 cents a day, hardly a factor. Also I've had a couple LED's with far less use one a TV another as a computer monitor and both gave up the ghost in about 3 years. Like I said, my 8 year old plasma is still going strong. So that's a factor too. I might get a OLED in a few years if the rave reviews for the few that's seen them hold up and prices drop by at least half. LOL!

Lot's of TV "give up the ghost". I have a 2006 Philips LCD TV (almost 7 years old) that is still going strong. Neither here nor there with that point. cool.gif Your TV after all those hours and age, plus being an older model with less than stellar light output when it was new, the TV may be delivering an "ok" picture , but I doubt many would call it "good' anymore.

Power consumption of, say, a Panasonic TC-50PG10 is listed at 269 watts. Hmmm. . .. verses a newer Panasonic TC-L55DT50 3D LED of only 80.2 watts max. That 785 KW/hr verses 234 KW/hr for 8 hours a day and 365 days a year. And that's if the new LED TV has back light cranked to max. . . which would not be the case with proper settings.

http://shop.panasonic.com/shop/model/TC-P50G10?t=specs&support#tabs

http://shop.panasonic.com/shop/model/TC-L55DT50?t=specs

But, it doesn't matter how you or I look at it. Your preference does not define others anymore than mine does. So, glad your TV lasted this long and kept it out of the electronic land fill.smile.gif
Edited by Phase700B - 9/10/12 at 11:57am
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post #130 of 291
9/11/12 at 5:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyBoyBlue View Post

The big concern that many sadly don't even know exists I saved to last. Off angle viewing. Just to be clear what we're talking about. If you get a big screen LED place it at eye level and look at it staight on, the picture quality can and often will blow you away. Sadly if you move over a space or two on the sofa or much worse sit on a chair at an angle of as little as 15 degrees off center the picture quality quickly can and often does go into the toliet


The above is simply not true and certainly an exaggeration. Panasonic, the very brand of plasma TV you are buying, has the LED WT series that has excellent off angle viewing and top notch, unimpaired picture quality

The statement that an LCD picture fades in as little as 15 degrees off center simply is not true and is an overstatement. Perhaps you missed the article listed below regarding the Panasonic WT LED series? It was posted a few posts before you made yours on page 4 of this thread. Forums are for reading too.wink.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phase700B View Post


CES 2012 Post Show Report Part Four -Panasonic’s HDTV LED/LCD Line
February 1st, 2012 ·
Panasonic brought a number of HDTV surprises to Las Vegas with the debut of its new 2012 LCD and plasma lines. The electronics giant revealed performance improvements in both TV technologies. The LED LCD line-up features for the first time 47 and 55-Inch IPS panels to compete head on with Samsungs and LG top of the line products. Its new WT series models showed a performance improvement that leapfrogs every LED LCD makers panels performance to date.
For years Panasonic lagged behind Samsung and LG in LED styling and form factor, but not any longer. Panasonic also significantly raised the performance bar with its 2012 WT series. During the CES demo the new WT models outperformed every other LED LCD we saw at CES in viewing angle, maintaining color saturation and contrast from even extreme viewing positions (see photo below). This is the first time we have witnessed off-axis LED LCD viewing that rivals plasma performance. These 47 and 55-Inch LED LCDs pack new signal processing, Full HD 3D, scanning LED backlight with local dimming and more in a beautiful skinny aluminum finished edge bezel and sports a depth of just 1.1-Inches
The complete LED and LCD line includes eight series with a total of eighteen models. The screen sizes range from 32 to 55-Inches. Below we list the top features of the WT along with screen sizes of the other model series.
PANASONIC-WT-view-2-580.jpg
Off Angle View
Panasonic-WT-Off-Axis-580.jpg
This top-of-the-line WT series of “Full HD 3D” 1080 LED LCD holds its own against any competitors’ models in terms of performance and styling. Available in the 55-Inch screen size as the TC-L55WT50 and a 47-Inch TC-L47WT50. Top features include:
IPS LED LCD wide viewing panel- provides high contrast and vivid color even at extreme off-axis viewing positions
Four aspect ratios
Clear Panel Pro anti glare filter
1920 scanning backlight (240 Hz refresh x 8 scanning segments= 1920)
16 zones of local dimming
24Hz playback
ISF ccc calibration
Pro Settings
Vivid Color creation- analyzes color contrast and skin tones for optimization
Video content smoother-eliminates judder on YouTube and other web videos
Full HD 3D with active glasses
2D-3D conversion with face detection
Built-in eight speaker sound plus rear sub-woofer
18 watts total sound system power
4 HDMI side inputs

Overall, these new LED TVs offer all the other many benefits of LED/LCD TVs also, such as low screen reflectivity, lower power consumption and less heat than plasma TVs, and no concerns of image retention, floating or rising black levels, plasma cell aging issues, and more.

Owners experience with actual purchased TVs often are much better than individual sample or early release TV models that CNET, Consumer Reports, and other commercial reviews sites get to review.

Edited by Phase700B - 9/11/12 at 5:42am
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post #131 of 291
9/11/12 at 9:03am
for anyone who has not checked out the value electronics shootout I recommend they do... it puts the top of the line LEDs and Plasmas against each other
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post #132 of 291
9/11/12 at 9:42am
I just received the October issue of "Home Theater". Two reviews by Thomas Norton include the newest Sharp LC-90LE745U 3D LED/LCD TV (90" screen) and the Panasonic TC-P65VT50 3D plasma TV (65 screen)". Since this thread is asking which technology to buy I will mention a couple of comments from Mr. Norton. The Sharp is a Full Array back lit LED but not local dimming.The most obvious issue, as expected, was it's off-axis viewing.The colors at the extreme side of the screen fade noticeably if your seat is near the opposite edge. Another issue is black level and shadow detail. This Sharp also had the worst cross talk (3D) (ghosting) I've seen yet. For the Panasonic I'll simply relay Mr. Norton's final sentence in his conclusion. "The value and performance offered by the Panasonic VT50 series is truly remarkable".
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post #133 of 291
9/11/12 at 11:00am
There is no end to TV reviewers. In the review comments listed above I have to wonder what shortcomings there were in the VT50 that were not mentioned. Things like IR/screen burn, video/pixel noise, dithering, and a few other issues actual owners of these TVs have found and disclosed in the very threads here on AVS for ST50/GT50/VT50. Certainly, each technology has its merits and weak points. So these should be disclosed also. And to say reviewers invited to comparison events at any commercial establishment may not have a bias would be naive. One never knows what incentives and "goody" bags, and "perks" may have been there also, besides those favoring one brand/technology over another.

I'll always read "professional" reviews as a starting point. But all one has to do is read the threads here on AVS and owner comments on online retail sites (like a'Zon wink.gif ) with real owner experiences to find out how a TV performs in real life use over weeks and months of operation. Something no short review can possibly duplicate. Even the Panasonic ST/GT threads are evidence of this as well as a thread such as the Samsung ES8000 where numerous issues have been brought up. Right now, for the money, if I were to buy a mid priced HDTV it might be something more like the Samsung EH5000 or EH6000 series in a 47" size. Almost all larger size panels seem to be plagued with various issues. 50" to 80" panel sizes are really stretching the current technology in terms of stability, durability, and reliability based on most of what I have read in reading owner experience and personal observation. The "bleeding edge" of technology is often too fresh from the cut of the engineering cloth to be something stable and without problems. . . in my opinion. Whether it be plasma or LED/LCD.
Edited by Phase700B - 9/11/12 at 11:10am
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post #134 of 291
9/11/12 at 11:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phase700B View Post

Energy consumption and heat are still factors for plasma. They still use 25% to 40% more power than comparable LED TVs. Go to the local BB and walk past the TVs. You will know you are in front of a plasma as soon as you walk by one and feel the "heat treatment" on your arms or face.
AFAIK, some of these new, thinner sets are designed to dissipate heat through the screen.
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post #135 of 291
9/11/12 at 12:28pm
Come on... off angle viewing is a known issue and admitted by ALL LED makers. While the angle varies greatly depending on make and model that along with serious problems viewing at anything but straight on vertically and best at eye level, not even a few degrees up or down from that since the mere act of simply standing up and looking down or lying down and looking up can and does screw up most LED pictures to the point is might be a deal breaker.

It was for me and yeah I actually did squad down and even lie down on the floor at Best Best (don't laugh) checking out several makes of LED and that was the final straw for me because I wanted and intended to get one of the newer Samsung "smart" LED tvs. This version often isn't ready for prime time unless you are willing to hog the one or two "good" seats squarely in line with the LED screen and make damn sure your eye level is at the center of the screen or most everyLED's suffers some off angle issues, obviously some more than others. The irony is both issues could easily and inexpensively been fixed by simply adding a swivel/tilt base... something many LED's don't have. I simply don't get any of the major players making decisions on if or not their tv are viewable off angle and instead making design decisoins on how the base looks. To me, that's pretty damn stupid. A stand first and formost should be FUNCTIONAL. I don't give a rat's ass how it looks if the design messes up the picture quality simply because you can't tilt or swivel it.
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post #136 of 291
9/11/12 at 12:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phase700B View Post

Forums are for reading too.wink.gif[/COLOR][/B]

Actually I read over 200 posts in this forum before posting. So I'm well aware of the childish nitpicking and trying to be "expert" some put such effort into here. Sorry, I wasn't impressed ;-)

I did look at the make model you suggested and it had other issues, pointless to go into since I already bought the plasma version. Bottom line, if you want a LED, right now Samsung is top dog. If you want a plasma, Panasonic is top dog yet each have ventured into the other's terrority with mixed results at best.
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post #137 of 291
9/11/12 at 1:19pm
The OP was asking for advice on displays in the 55" to 60" range or bigger. Referencing displays in the 40", 23" and 47" range are not what he's interested in. I realize that professional reviewers don't always see things the way we do (Thomas Norton is highly respected among videophiles) but for me it's impossible to physically view 5 or 6 different displays in the same location. These pro's have equipment and expertise that most of us do not have. Plus as we all know, most displays are set up quite differently in a showroom than we should set them up at our home. Off axis viewing is something most would not consider until they experience it at home. If energy cost is a big deal to anyone looking at displays this size and cost then that's OK, but I doubt that would be a deal breaker in most cases. FYI, Mr. Nortons review of the 55" Panasonic LED/LCD went out of it's way to mention that off axis viewing was perhaps the best he's ever seen because of the screen technology used. Panasonic doesn't have much of a track record in the LCD field but this display sounds like a winner if your looking for a 55" LED?LCD. This Fall I will be deciding between the Sharp 70LE747 or the Panasonic 65ST50.
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post #138 of 291
9/11/12 at 1:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyBoyBlue View Post

Actually I read over 200 posts in this forum before posting. So I'm well aware of the childish nitpicking and trying to be "expert" some put such effort into here. Sorry, I wasn't impressed ;-)
I did look at the make model you suggested and it had other issues, pointless to go into since I already bought the plasma version. Bottom line, if you want a LED, right now Samsung is top dog. If you want a plasma, Panasonic is top dog yet each have ventured into the other's terrority with mixed results at best.

Come on. . . and plasma has well known issues of image retention, screen burn, pixel/video noise, dithering, and more. Not to mention the 2 to 3 times energy consumption. And all TVs have issues. Including the one you are buying. And I don't know what LED/LCD TVs you looked at , but my Mitsubishi looks great even off angle or up and down. Not even 45 degrees will make a difference. So you may have missed some of the good ones most likely. My LG is not as good, but still offers a good view overall.

Well, we hope your new TV works out for you. You can then start posting in the Panasonic Plasma thread where it would make more sense. But glad you read 200 posts. Must be some kind of record somewhere.tongue.gif
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post #139 of 291
9/11/12 at 1:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyBoyBlue View Post

Come on... off angle viewing is a known issue and admitted by ALL LED makers. While the angle varies greatly depending on make and model that along with serious problems viewing at anything but straight on vertically and best at eye level, not even a few degrees up or down from that since the mere act of simply standing up and looking down or lying down and looking up can and does screw up most LED pictures to the point is might be a deal breaker.

That's a blanket statement that simple doesn't apply to all LCD/LED sets. My LCD (same thing as an LED only with different backlighting) has an S-IPS panel and the off-axis viewing is great. Even at an angle where I wouldn't normally be viewing the set. What looks good to you is all that matters, regardless of what the "expert reviewers" or users here say. But, to make a blanket statements, one has to be very careful....
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post #140 of 291
9/11/12 at 1:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

The OP was asking for advice on displays in the 55" to 60" range or bigger. Referencing displays in the 40", 23" and 47" range are not what he's interested in. I realize that professional reviewers don't always see things the way we do (Thomas Norton is highly respected among videophiles) but for me it's impossible to physically view 5 or 6 different displays in the same location. These pro's have equipment and expertise that most of us do not have. Plus as we all know, most displays are set up quite differently in a showroom than we should set them up at our home. Off axis viewing is something most would not consider until they experience it at home. If energy cost is a big deal to anyone looking at displays this size and cost then that's OK, but I doubt that would be a deal breaker in most cases. FYI, Mr. Nortons review of the 55" Panasonic LED/LCD went out of it's way to mention that off axis viewing was perhaps the best he's ever seen because of the screen technology used. Panasonic doesn't have much of a track record in the LCD field but this display sounds like a winner if your looking for a 55" LED?LCD. This Fall I will be deciding between the Sharp 70LE747 or the Panasonic 65ST50.

Reviewer's Test Equipment doesn't ever tell the whole story, else, you would not have dissatisfied owners of many previously well reviewed TVs. Also, often review models are newly released and may have issues that weren't corrected until the next firmware update which may disadvantage them over another TV. And, they can have all the equipment in the world, but a day or two test is no substitute for weeks and months of real world use and operation by the TV owners. And high end TVs are not the majority of what most folks buy.

As I said, I read the professional reviews, but often even lower priced models from the same brand ( think Samsung ES8000 series vs ES5000/6000) have better reliability, performance and less issues. And these mid to lower priced models are often ignored or given a token review. Don't get me wrong, my Mitsubishi LT-46231 was not cheap at $2,700 in early 2007. And it has more inputs and features that newer TVs no longer have, such as IEEE 1394 Firewire inputs for recording OTA TV in high definition onto a HDD. Yes, you can now buy other devices that do similar task. But I have three DVRs that cost $65 to $90 each and store up to 60 hours of video on them each. I don't have to capture streamed programs on a separate computer or off line with mediocre picture quality and feed it into a USB port and hope it works without some sort of additional software program. I capture live OTA TV real time onto the HDD through the TV and can schedule it even with the tV off using the built in electronic TVGOS. Off topic? Perhaps, but at least one or two other posters touted what was so great about 8 year old plasma TVs.
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post #141 of 291
9/11/12 at 4:06pm
I'm not sure what the average person pays these days for a TV but the two I'll be interested in should be in the $1900 to $2200 range. In my case off axis viewing should not pose a problem because it's just my wife and I so we'll be in the sweet spot. Light control is no problem so reflections also pose no problem. We sit about 18ft from the screen and now have a Sony 60A3000 and I basically just want to go bigger. I think the Sharp and the Panasonic both offer very acceptable PQ so my choice seems to bounce back and forth between the Panasonic's better PQ (yes I'm convinced) and the bigger Sharp. I am well aware of the short comings of both TV's. I just need to decide whose weaknesses I can live with easiest. I am concerned with the financial situation with Sharp as well as the long term future of plasma in general. OLED is the future but will be too expensive for at least the next 5 to 7 years. At least it will be for me.
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post #142 of 291
9/11/12 at 4:49pm
Well, with a viewing distance of 18' I can see shy you want to go larger if possible. Many TV buyers want a 60" to 65" TV and watch it from 8' or 10' away. I can see pixel structure on a 60" TV at 10' easily, but at 18' I would not see it either. As long as you make an informed choice regarding how long you feel you will keep the TV and what qualities are most important, it will hopefully be an improvement in some regards over the 60A3000 which is no slouch. And $1,900 to $2,200 in today's dollars is not excessive for a 60" flat screen. I agree, I think the Panasonic is the better choice. The past few years Sharp seems to have some issues and I think Panasonic is a bit better as a company. Just my observation and opinion.

Well, here's hoping which ever you decide it provides an overall enjoyable viewing experience.
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post #143 of 291
9/11/12 at 6:38pm
Regarding LED/LCD TVs and viewing angles, blacks levels, etc, the IPS panel sets do have great horizontal viewing angles but the vertical viewing angles are pretty crappy and the blacks levels and native contrast ratios are REALLY POOR (like 900:1 on my LG and 0.04 fL black level). In fact, my S-IPS LG LCD will be moved to a secondary room once a repair on it is completed and I am currently trying to find a Samsung UN40EH5300 with the S-PVA panel to replace it as my primary display.

I have found out the hard way with this LG that no amount of calibration controls, wide horizontal viewing angles, accurate color (white balance and gamut) and gamma can compensate for high contrast images with deep blacks and saturated colors (in the good sense due to the deep blacks, not oversaturation). If you read most LG LCD threads, you'll see post after post about people 'winning' the panel lottery with the S-IPS panel, when it fact all you're getting is a washed out display that can't handle dark details too well without further washing out out the near blacks and colors even more than they already are by default. I will never buy another IPS panel set again since the pros on that panel tech for me in no way compensate for weak blacks and poor shadow detail and probably pass on LGs altogether as long as better options like Samsung are available. Sorry about the rant but I feel obligated to let others know that IPS panels might have wide H viewing angles and in some cases accurate color but at a rather massive cost to overall PQ.

So, it shouldn't shock anyone that sets like the Panasonic WT50 have not fared well in professional reviews against sets with far better blacks and contrast ratios and shadow detail (like Samsung LED/Plasma and Panasonic Plasma). I mean why do most people here think the Pioneer/Sharp Elites represent the the top end of flat panel TV performance? The blacks of course!
Edited by PlasmaPZ80U - 9/11/12 at 6:46pm
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post #144 of 291
9/11/12 at 6:59pm
-This thread is really full of Panasonic plasma fans and peple worried about ir on plasma's. The Samsung plasma's (6500,7000 and 8000) are excellent TV's, reportedly have less ir than Panny's and are cheaper.
-Most (not all) people reporting ir only see it on pure white screens (test slides) and/or when standing 'inches' from the screen, not in normal viewing modes.

The one thing that concerns me is expected life time, is it true plasma's have a short life span where led's last forever?
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post #145 of 291
9/11/12 at 7:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pds3 View Post

Don't you ever get tired trolling the LED threads???


I guess everyone has their opinion, but I know what you mean. There is no perfect TV and if one TV exceeds in one area often it lacks in another. Nothing new there and not worth constantly crying about and fretting over. I have both an 2010 LG 42LD550 LCD with S-IPS and a 2006 Mitsubishi LT-46231 with and S-PVA panel. The color is better on the LG, off angle and black level is somewhat better on the Mits. But not enough to to be any deal breaker. If anything, S-PVA panels are touchy in the low end and can crush blacks. But. . .. whatever.rolleyes.gif
Edited by Phase700B - 9/11/12 at 7:27pm
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post #146 of 291
9/11/12 at 7:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dzt41j View Post

-This thread is really full of Panasonic plasma fans and peple worried about ir on plasma's. The Samsung plasma's (6500,7000 and 8000) are excellent TV's, reportedly have less ir than Panny's and are cheaper.
-Most (not all) people reporting ir only see it on pure white screens (test slides) and/or when standing 'inches' from the screen, not in normal viewing modes.
The one thing that concerns me is expected life time, is it true plasma's have a short life span where led's last forever?

LEDs won't last forever, but it is true that plasma phosphors diminish in light output and consistency faster than an LED would. Take a look at air ports and other public venues and there are LCD TVs that are on 24/7 and going strong. You won't see a plasma doing that. It would depend on how many hours you use the TV each day.

Yes, now someone will start stating advertised half output rating made by TV makers of 50,000 to 80,000 hours. A plasma will be pretty diminished in light output and probably have color imbalance after much less than that.
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post #147 of 291
9/11/12 at 7:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyBoyBlue View Post

Well I've had a plasma (50 inch Panasonic) running daily most days 12 hours plus for 8 years, quick caculation that's about 35,000 hours of use and knock on wood it's still delivering a good picuture, doesn't throw off much heat, never made a hum or other sound ever, not even once. The picture has been rock solid.
I define heat this way... if the set has been on a hour or so, yes it is warm to the touch if you touch it at the vent holes, but throw off heat come on... Maybe some that say their sets get hot don't give it good ventalation, which also might account why some sets don't last. As far as costs some have raised plasma vs LED, yes a plasma will cost about twice as much, but we're talking about $110 a year, so that's about .30 cents a day, hardly a factor. Also I've had a couple LED's with far less use one a TV another as a computer monitor and both gave up the ghost in about 3 years. Like I said, my 8 year old plasma is still going strong. So that's a factor too. I might get a OLED in a few years if the rave reviews for the few that's seen them hold up and prices drop by at least half. LOL!


My plasma has tons of room around it....behind, the sides, and obviously the front. It definitely makes my room 2-3degrees hotter after about an hour of on time. Think about a radiator in a house....they don't throw heat but they are warm to the touch. The warmth of the radiator heats the room, this is what plasma can do and it's a big factor in my wanting to switch to LCD as well, even though I love plasma still
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post #148 of 291
9/11/12 at 7:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

I just received the October issue of "Home Theater". Two reviews by Thomas Norton include the newest Sharp LC-90LE745U 3D LED/LCD TV (90" screen) and the Panasonic TC-P65VT50 3D plasma TV (65 screen)". Since this thread is asking which technology to buy I will mention a couple of comments from Mr. Norton. The Sharp is a Full Array back lit LED but not local dimming.The most obvious issue, as expected, was it's off-axis viewing.The colors at the extreme side of the screen fade noticeably if your seat is near the opposite edge. Another issue is black level and shadow detail. This Sharp also had the worst cross talk (3D) (ghosting) I've seen yet. For the Panasonic I'll simply relay Mr. Norton's final sentence in his conclusion. "The value and performance offered by the Panasonic VT50 series is truly remarkable".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phase700B View Post

There is no end to TV reviewers. In the review comments listed above I have to wonder what shortcomings there were in the VT50 that were not mentioned. Things like IR/screen burn, video/pixel noise, dithering, and a few other issues actual owners of these TVs have found and disclosed in the very threads here on AVS for ST50/GT50/VT50. Certainly, each technology has its merits and weak points. So these should be disclosed also. And to say reviewers invited to comparison events at any commercial establishment may not have a bias would be naive. One never knows what incentives and "goody" bags, and "perks" may have been there also, besides those favoring one brand/technology over another.
I'll always read "professional" reviews as a starting point. But all one has to do is read the threads here on AVS and owner comments on online retail sites (like a'Zon wink.gif ) with real owner experiences to find out how a TV performs in real life use over weeks and months of operation. Something no short review can possibly duplicate. Even the Panasonic ST/GT threads are evidence of this as well as a thread such as the Samsung ES8000 where numerous issues have been brought up. Right now, for the money, if I were to buy a mid priced HDTV it might be something more like the Samsung EH5000 or EH6000 series in a 47" size. Almost all larger size panels seem to be plagued with various issues. 50" to 80" panel sizes are really stretching the current technology in terms of stability, durability, and reliability based on most of what I have read in reading owner experience and personal observation. The "bleeding edge" of technology is often too fresh from the cut of the engineering cloth to be something stable and without problems. . . in my opinion. Whether it be plasma or LED/LCD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phase700B View Post

Come on. . . and plasma has well known issues of image retention, screen burn, pixel/video noise, dithering, and more. Not to mention the 2 to 3 times energy consumption. And all TVs have issues. Including the one you are buying. And I don't know what LED/LCD TVs you looked at , but my Mitsubishi looks great even off angle or up and down. Not even 45 degrees will make a difference. So you may have missed some of the good ones most likely. My LG is not as good, but still offers a good view overall.
Well, we hope your new TV works out for you. You can then start posting in the Panasonic Plasma thread where it would make more sense. But glad you read 200 posts. Must be some kind of record somewhere.tongue.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

Regarding LED/LCD TVs and viewing angles, blacks levels, etc, the IPS panel sets do have great horizontal viewing angles but the vertical viewing angles are pretty crappy and the blacks levels and native contrast ratios are REALLY POOR (like 900:1 on my LG and 0.04 fL black level). In fact, my S-IPS LG LCD will be moved to a secondary room once a repair on it is completed and I am currently trying to find a Samsung UN40EH5300 with the S-PVA panel to replace it as my primary display.
I have found out the hard way with this LG that no amount of calibration controls, wide horizontal viewing angles, accurate color (white balance and gamut) and gamma can compensate for high contrast images with deep blacks and saturated colors (in the good sense due to the deep blacks, not oversaturation). If you read most LG LCD threads, you'll see post after post about people 'winning' the panel lottery with the S-IPS panel, when it fact all you're getting is a washed out display that can't handle dark details too well without further washing out out the near blacks and colors even more than they already are by default. I will never buy another IPS panel set again since the pros on that panel tech for me in no way compensate for weak blacks and poor shadow detail and probably pass on LGs altogether as long as better options like Samsung are available. Sorry about the rant but I feel obligated to let others know that IPS panels might have wide H viewing angles and in some cases accurate color but at a rather massive cost to overall PQ.
So, it shouldn't shock anyone that sets like the Panasonic WT50 have not fared well in professional reviews against sets with far better blacks and contrast ratios and shadow detail (like Samsung LED/Plasma and Panasonic Plasma). I mean why do most people here think the Pioneer/Sharp Elites represent the the top end of flat panel TV performance? The blacks of course!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dzt41j View Post

-This thread is really full of Panasonic plasma fans and peple worried about ir on plasma's. The Samsung plasma's (6500,7000 and 8000) are excellent TV's, reportedly have less ir than Panny's and are cheaper.
-Most (not all) people reporting ir only see it on pure white screens (test slides) and/or when standing 'inches' from the screen, not in normal viewing modes.
The one thing that concerns me is expected life time, is it true plasma's have a short life span where led's last forever?

The reason why this post is full of Panasonic (panny) responses is because they are outstanding Plasma sets. I will be buying a 65"vt50 at the end of September and have zero reservations about it. I also have a 70" Sharp Elite literally right next to it in the demo space from it and for the money, the Panasonic VT50 is hands down, far and away the outperformer. You don't have to take my word for it, take the numerous "TV of the year" awards that that panel has received this year.
Regardless of what you may think of these guys as reviewers, they give a fairly spot on review of the VT50
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnDbLVPsUDw&feature=relmfu
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post #149 of 291
9/11/12 at 7:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pds3 View Post

Can't say I ever knew anybody with burn in issues on a modern LCD tv.
Just do a general search for Panasonic Image Retention. You will find more than a few complaints. You don't think Panasonic is going to tell you about the problem on their website do you?

Oh I've got one... black bars from a SD channel stay there for like an hour afterwards. Computer screen images can stay there 2-3 hours afterwards. 40 in Sammsung :- |
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post #150 of 291
9/11/12 at 7:46pm
I agree the VT50 is the class of the field, but I do think the Samsungs should be looked at for those considering the GT's or ST's, especially if you are worried about ir.
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