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LED or Plasma right now? - Page 9

post #241 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Djyinn View Post

Sir, YOU may want to check your facts. That was a direct quote from the video, but I assume that you didn't even bother watching it. To quote the video directly and specifically,
3:43 "But we did eliminate some panels this year. WE TESTED ALL OF THEM, WE TESTED EVERY SINGLE PANEL, and I won't mention any names because I don't want to embarrass Sony... They are a GREAT company, and the HX929 is truly with no joke an exceptional television its absolutely an exceptional television and it produced an excellent picture this year as it did last year. But, the advancement in display technology is the biggest I have ever scene since we had the Kuro in 2008, I've never seen such a jump in picture quality enhancement. And, when we put that up along with a few others that didn't make the cut, it just didn't compete. So we felt that there are models that just don't make the cut, and that's one of a few that didn't make it. So, I have insulted some friends in the industry as well as clients, but, this is about the best panels of 2012. it's not ALL the panels, it's THE BEST. It took a lot for any one panel to get into this event, it had to be a real stellar performer."
Thank you PlasmaPZ80U for this comment

I would also like to point out that the winner of last years shootout was an LED, specifically the Elite LED.
Here are the results
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-20118503-221/sharp-elite-wins-value-electronics-hdtv-shootout/
These guys specifically hold this event to let the panels speak for themselves, that's why the televise it so heavily on youtube and publicize their results. To imply or think that they fabricate or are influenced by outside perks of any nature is an insult to the entirety of the shootout process as a whole and is highly offensive. Yes, PROFESSIONAL REVIEWERS need to be taken with a grain of salt, that is not what is happening here.
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57439424-221/panasonic-vt50-wins-value-electronics-2012-tv-picture-quality-shootout/

I agree that anyone who hasn't actually seen the whole shootout on YouTube should, before commenting on it. The people on the expert panel were as objective as any reviewer can be and they did everything they could to make sure the six TVs being tested were all given a fair chance to win the competition. For example, the LCDs were on the bottom and the Plasmas were on the top so that the LCD viewing angles were less of an issue and the experts encouraged everyone to look at the TVs from up front, near dead center, when evaluating PQ.

We could agrue that more TVs should have been tested or that the top of the line sets don't represent more mainstream models, but there is still a lot to learn from this shootout and it's a must watch IMHO for anyone who wants to see how the best flat panels in 2012 stack up against each other. Is it a perfect comparison? no, but then no review is and certainly not those written by random users on the internet (including on AVS).

I view expert and user reviews as resources to help make a new TV purchase, but like others have pointed out in the end you buy what you like for whatever reasons that matter to you. All other information is there to help you make an informed decision, especially that from expert/professional reviewers & calibrators who really know their stuff.
post #242 of 292
They'd better include the HX950 I just bought in the next shootout.
post #243 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flavius View Post

They'd better include the HX950 I just bought in the next shootout.

If it was indeed the best of the best then please tell me what the Panasonic LED, LG and the edge lit Samsung where doing there. They are NOT as good as the 929 (my opinion) and their numbers certainly suggest that. It is very possible that since no Sony rep showed up that Sony was not included. The reason I even starting looking into the 929 (don't own one) was the fact that Dnice has said at one point it was the best TV of 2011 and I can tell you now that no one thinks that the Sony " didn't compete with" any of those awful sets.
Edited by bzal1122 - 9/16/12 at 12:48pm
post #244 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flavius View Post

They'd better include the HX950 I just bought in the next shootout.

I've heard it now from numerous people, who were at this year's shootout, that the decision not to include the 929 was strictly because it was not a "2012" model, and that the only reason the Elite was (which, like the 929, is also a 2011 model) is because it was the reigning champ so for reference purposes the Elite needed to be included. I'd be willing to wager that the 950 will be included in the next shootout.
post #245 of 292
DNice chose a Samsung Plasma as best TV 2011 (in 2012 he chose the Panasonic Plsma as best TV). As said before only the 2011 Shootout winner participated in the 2012 Shootout so all other 2011 TVs were excluded. It was weird that there was no sony in the 2012 Shootout ( might have to do with the mistakes made while preparing the 929 for calibration
http://www.cnet.com/8705-4_1-0.html?username=KevinTVMD&tag=mncol;tback ).

It was told that next Shootout - end 2012 - would include the 55'' Samsung OLED and the 55'' LG OLED + several of the 2012 participants -> so no 950. We won't see a 55'' OLED in 2012 so we can forget about that Value Electronic plan smile.gif
post #246 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

I agree that anyone who hasn't actually seen the whole shootout on YouTube should, before commenting on it. The people on the expert panel were as objective as any reviewer can be and they did everything they could to make sure the six TVs being tested were all given a fair chance to win the competition. For example, the LCDs were on the bottom and the Plasmas were on the top so that the LCD viewing angles were less of an issue and the experts encouraged everyone to look at the TVs from up front, near dead center, when evaluating PQ.

I agree that maybe I should have double checked the information in the shootout thread, but considering it was from a few of the most respected members of AVSforum, I didn't believe it to be necessary. Even if I did, it still would have given me 2 different answers, one that the HX929 wasn't good enough to "make the cut", the other that it wasn't a 2012 model. For me, VE has every right to chose whatever TVs they like in their shootout, and if they had omitted Sony because they didn't like the brand or anything, it would be up to them. But this uncertainty does make me a bit uncomfortable, I have to admit.

I actually believe that the last 2 shootouts have been quite favorable for the HX929 all in all. Based on what was tested, how it was tested, surroundings etc. I am quite certain that the HX929 wouldn't have won either of them, and that the winners would have been the same as they were without the HX929 (it kind of didn't get a fair chance in 2011 shootout either). But the fact that it didn't get a fair chance in either of the shootouts could actually speak in it's favor, it's now kind of a martyr of TVs, rather than the TV that came in third or forth. My personal reasons for buying the HX929 and not any of the other great TVs was fear of IR/burn in, heat/power consumption and brightness enough for bright rooms, as far as I know, neither of those where included in the shootout, and I fully respect and understand that.
Edited by improwise - 9/16/12 at 2:08pm
post #247 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by bzal1122 View Post

If it was indeed the best of the best then please tell me what the Panasonic LED, LG and the edge lit Samsung where doing there. They are NOT as good as the 929 (my opinion) and their numbers certainly suggest that. It is very possible that since no Sony rep showed up that Sony was not included. The reason I even starting looking into the 929 (don't own one) was the fact that Dnice has said at one point it was the best TV of 2011 and I can tell you now that no one thinks that the Sony " didn't compete with" any of those awful sets.

It pains me to say this, as I really don't like to complain when someone puts in all this time and effort as VE has done, but I do think the same thing. Although the ES8000 and the WT50 are great TVs, and am quite certain that they wouldn't stand a chance of beating the HX929 in a shootout, at least that is my impression after having seen them all. And I know it's the opinion of many others. Yet, they "made the cut", but the HX929 didn't. Even though I am the first to admit that the HX929 has it's share of problems, I just can't help myself trying to find a good reason for it not being included, but so far I haven't.
Edited by improwise - 9/16/12 at 2:15pm
post #248 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by improwise View Post

It pains me to say this, as I really don't like to complain when someone puts in all this time and effort as VE has done, but I do think the same thing. Although the ES8000 and the WT50 are great TVs, and am quite certain that they wouldn't stand a chance of beating the HX929 in a shootout, at least that is my impression after having seen them all. And I know it's the opinion of many others. Yet, they "made the cut", but the HX929 didn't. Even though I am the first to admit that the HX929 has it's share of problems, I just can't help myself trying to find a good reason for it not being included, but so far I haven't.

Even with that being said......the LG is almost laughable that it competed better than the 929. The LG blacks looked like gray bars and the motion almost gave the guys in the shootout motion sickness. I think the LG also had a contrast ratio of like 1000:1!!!!!!!!! If the 929 is this bad Sony should quit the TV buisness. I think this very fact invalidates whatever they said at the shootout about the 929 not competing and whoever said it should be asked to elaborate on it more.

also the fact that the VT50 won this year for best picture doesn't take into account that you could be watching last weeks football game on it because the IR from that game hasn't faded away yet. Again, I own a kuro and I am still a plasma fan, but I am converting
post #249 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by bzal1122 View Post

Even with that being said......the LG is almost laughable that it competed better than the 929. The LG blacks looked like gray bars and the motion almost gave the guys in the shootout motion sickness. I think the LG also had a contrast ratio of like 1000:1!!!!!!!!! If the 929 is this bad Sony should quit the TV buisness. I think this very fact invalidates whatever they said at the shootout about the 929 not competing and whoever said it should be asked to elaborate on it more.
also the fact that the VT50 won this year for best picture doesn't take into account that you could be watching last weeks football game on it because the IR from that game hasn't faded away yet. Again, I own a kuro and I am still a plasma fan, but I am converting

Even though I agree with you on IR being a major problem, I think it is important not to mix that problem with the VE shootout and the handling of the HX929. As far as I know, IR was not tested in the shootout and that's of course their right to test whatever they want. But, I think it should be something to consider when choosing a TV, then I leave it to everyone to decide if it is a problem or not for them, and if they are willing to run pixel orbiters and screen cleaning to work around it.
Edited by improwise - 9/16/12 at 3:16pm
post #250 of 292
Hey Improwise,

I just wanted to clarify. I re-read what I had posted last night and it came off a little bit to me as slightly disrespectful. I appreciate that you didn't take it that way, but I at least wanted to apologize if anything that I posted on here offended you, or anyone else for that matter.

We all would not be here if we all didn't have a deep seeded passion around achieving that absolute best in picture and sound quality out of our consumer level gear. I take that as a huge compliment and responsibility to be surrounded by not only so many like minded individuals, but so many KNOWLEDGEABLE individuals. There is a vast amount of knowledge to be had on these forums, and I just always want it to be as non-biased as possible. ALWAYS be proud of your gear and sing its praises whenever possible, but always keep it in perspective with what is being discussed.

I really enjoy being on these forums, and I always love to see the back in forth that develops, specifically between me, you, Phase, PlasmaPZ and a handful of others. smile.gif
post #251 of 292
I don't know about anyone eles,but I find it funny that the plasma gang goes cruising on the LCD forum. I never go onto the plasma forum(yes!I owned a panny) I don't have to prop up LCD"S.
I find it funny that one person talk about a pixel going out on a LCD but didn't mention what happens when a cell goes out on a plasma,at least you have some options with fixing a stuck pixel.
I own a Samsung 81F,one of the first local dimming LED LCD,this TV had some blooming,but still went black when it had too..The LG LV9500 nano LED local dimming controls the blooming with the direction of light with the nano led.
On the LG LM9600 forum,I asked if anyone had the lv9500 and lm9600 to compare,both are nano TV'S. One person did and compared both and stated the lv9500 had better blacks.
Plasma GUY'S go back to your nice dark caves and BE HAPPY with your keep me warm plasma and stay off the LCD forum.The plasma ranters have been coming over to the LCD forum for years and it time to stop your ranting on the LCD forum.
OH! BUY THE WAY,WHY IS PANNY GOING LCD? I WONDER HOW MUCH MONEY IS INVOLVED WITH THE REVIEWS PLASMA GUY'S RANT ABOUT,LCD SELLS ITSELF!
Edited by 6athome - 9/17/12 at 4:52am
post #252 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Djyinn View Post

Hey Improwise,
I just wanted to clarify. I re-read what I had posted last night and it came off a little bit to me as slightly disrespectful. I appreciate that you didn't take it that way, but I at least wanted to apologize if anything that I posted on here offended you, or anyone else for that matter.

It's hard to get offended when someone is correct, so no worries there, in the end it seems we were both right biggrin.gif

I also appreciate and encourage open discussions as long as it is clear what are facts and what are opinions, and so far, I think that the discussions here have lived up to that.
post #253 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

hopefully not by copying or eyeballing settings... which is all too common on this side of the forum


Which is what I did in my case. Since the PZ85U thread was started!
I just cannot justify the $400 charge to calibrate.

After what, 4 years, the color and picture looks even better. Looks great.
post #254 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by stickboy2k View Post

Which is what I did in my case. Since the PZ85U thread was started!
I just cannot justify the $400 charge to calibrate.
After what, 4 years, the color and picture looks even better. Looks great.

Sometimes it does work. But why not at least download the free AVS HD709 disc or buy one of the calibration discs and make your own Media Assisted Settings? Unless you are talking about transferring gray scale and CMS settings, a cal disc will usually help optimize TV settings.
post #255 of 292
Plasma produces a better wide angle view for an audience seated in a wide room, .
post #256 of 292
1. It's a "LCD" TV. Just because Samsung started this 'marketing ploy', doesn't mean it's correct or accurate.
2. This is in the wrong form. It should be in the Flat Panel General sub-forum. Asking which is better in a specific forum yields one sided answers. wink.gif
post #257 of 292
I had always been leery of plasma from what I'd read about it, but bought my first one last year when Amazon price-matched this 60in LG 3D TV at $1300, which with no shipping or tax at the time was quite a deal. I have to say I'm now a total convert - fantastic picture quality and none of the problems of viewing angle that LCDs have (which when there's 20 people in room watching the season premier of Big Bang Theory is actually a bit of a problem). I would recommend Plasma now, but be sure to check AVS that it's a good one - they seem to change their rendering techniques every year and some are not as good as others.
post #258 of 292
Plasma all the way. Why is this in the LCD subforum? It should be moved to the Flat Panel subforum for a less biased response.
post #259 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6athome View Post

I don't know about anyone eles,but I find it funny that the plasma gang goes cruising on the LCD forum. I never go onto the plasma forum(yes!I owned a panny) I don't have to prop up LCD"S.
I find it funny that one person talk about a pixel going out on a LCD but didn't mention what happens when a cell goes out on a plasma,at least you have some options with fixing a stuck pixel.
I own a Samsung 81F,one of the first local dimming LED LCD,this TV had some blooming,but still went black when it had too..The LG LV9500 nano LED local dimming controls the blooming with the direction of light with the nano led.
On the LG LM9600 forum,I asked if anyone had the lv9500 and lm9600 to compare,both are nano TV'S. One person did and compared both and stated the lv9500 had better blacks.
Plasma GUY'S go back to your nice dark caves and BE HAPPY with your keep me warm plasma and stay off the LCD forum.The plasma ranters have been coming over to the LCD forum for years and it time to stop your ranting on the LCD forum.
OH! BUY THE WAY,WHY IS PANNY GOING LCD? I WONDER HOW MUCH MONEY IS INVOLVED WITH THE REVIEWS PLASMA GUY'S RANT ABOUT,LCD SELLS ITSELF!

LCD sells itself because people are generally ill-informed. The fact that LED is unquestionably more expensive (apples for apples) as a comparison with Plasma, it leads people to the conclusion that - it's more expensive, so surely it must be better, right?? Like it or not, this is how most peoples brains are hard wired... we all know that this simply is not true.

It sounds like you're a little frustrated at feeling the need to protect your chosen panel type and your supporting words are not great. Why not be happy with what you have? You'll always have those more logical minds choosing the cheaper, better looking panel (unless the sun is beaming in your lounge room??), which is the Plasma. I also find it interesting to see so many buy LED, most with silly reasons, none of which relate to the actual viewing quality of the panel. Perhaps this is why Plasma fans venture over to the LED forum... they really don't understand. To be honest I'm in this camp.
Edited by -MARTY54- - 10/5/12 at 1:55pm
post #260 of 292
See: http://www.lightillusion.com/forums/index.php?action=vthread&forum=8&topic=42
to see why we don't recommend plasmas for professional colour work, which is just as applicable for home cinema, as the fundamental requirement for home cinema is to see the film exactly as it was graded.

Cheers,

Steve
post #261 of 292
Just my 10 cents.... Depends on where the TV is going to be located. If it's upstairs with a bunch of natural light (windows) go with the LCD. If it's gonna be in a darker area go with the plasma. I personally have a 42" Panasonic Viera 1080p Plasma. It's great for movies and video games, if you will use it much for either. I've also read that plasma is best for video games, movies and sports... not sure if there is anything left.. LOL
post #262 of 292
try the toshiba 46l5200u led it's only 46 inches but the picture is staggering better than the $2500 led tv's.. and it's only $699 at best buy, otherwise the sony 640 are pretty good.
post #263 of 292
Get the panny.. bought the vt50 and love it. This is the best plasma on the market for a reason! smile.gif
post #264 of 292
I can easily detect pixalization on LCD and LED TV's and it gets really pronounced the faster the image goes, and the fast motion of say a football in flight goes into this weird step motion. I hate that stuff. I watched a whole slew of LCD and LED tv's before I finally gave up and tried a plasma. All the stuff I hated about the visual of LCD and LED was gone in Plasma...for the most part, if the camera filming the event is a low quality camera you still have problems, but no where near the problems I experienced with the LCD and LED sets. Then I also noticed the contrast and black levels were a bit better too, along with richer colors. And the bonus about Plasma...their less expensive

But having said all of that there's cons for LCD and LED TV's. They have less reflective ambient lighting and thus a very muted mirror appearance, plasma will reflect all the room lighting and have a kind of a mirror look to it like the old picture tube TV's had thus you have to watch them in lower light levels for serious viewing, though I watch my Plasma all the time in a well lit room and it doesn't bother me because I watched tube pictures for 55 years!! But when I watch a movie I then lower the lighting and enjoy a beautiful picture. So if your putting the TV in a well lit room the LCD and LED would perform better. Another pro for LCD and LED I found out was a friend of mine is legally blind, he can watch TV, but his vision acuity is very low and with his LCD he can turn the brightness level up higher then he could with a Plasma or higher then most people would with LCD or LED normally, at those higher levels he can watch TV better.

Those are just my observations, yours may vary!
post #265 of 292
10/6/2012

I own a Panasonic 60ST30. At this time image retention is an issue for anyone who may play video games for a good portion of the time the set is on. You will get it. It will show on screens from grey to white and it sucks. If you do not play games on the Panasonic you will never see image retention. A football game causing IR is not a concern to me. I have accidentally left static images over night with no effect whatsoever. However, Battlefield 3 is the only game I play, and has seen a couple hundred hours on the set producing burn in of squad names and weapon stats. It seems to me LCD or another technology will pass plasma before IR is worked out.
post #266 of 292
It's amazing to me that some people think all plasma's will have images burnt into the screen. Don't believe the salesman pointing you to the higher margin and higher cost LCDs. We were early HD TV buyers. Picked up a toshiba 40" projection HD TV in 1997. We bought our first 42" panasonic plasma 10 years ago. One of their first 1080i models, back when they were only available in two models and two sizes. It is still in regular use today and has been turned on pretty much 80% of the time since we bought it- no diminished brightness and no image burn in yet. Have an 8 year old samsung plasma in the bedroom, same story no burn in and no reduced picture quality. I remember when I bought the samsung the sales rep told me the gas in the plasma would run out in 5 years...8 years later I am still laughing. For home theater we use a 1080P projector.. But for more realistic everyday viewing it is plasma all the way- The only time I view an LED panel is when I am on my PC.
post #267 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by theblademan View Post

I was going to buy a samsung 64d8000 plasma yesterday, however I felt the colors were just too dull and dark for my tastes
compared side by side to a 55es8000 panel
The only problem was, there is currently no stock of a 60" samsung led where I'm at

Dude, if you walked into a best buy and think you like the ES8000 compared to the D8000, then you are thinking exactly how Samsung wants you to think.

Everyone walks up the "ES! 8000!" like a bug in a bug light.
post #268 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by depot4318 View Post

It's amazing to me that some people think all plasma's will have images burnt into the screen.

Obviously not a gamer. If you game on a plasma a quarter of the time it is on, you will have image retention. Pixel orbiting, new phosphors, anti retention technology - it doesn't matter, you'll get it. Still love my plasma, but this is the reality. Don't believe fanboys, because it is a concern for many.
post #269 of 292
If retailers would apply some standard calibration across the board I can't help but think that manufacturers would be forced to produce better panels and buyers would be happier with their purchases.

As it is, I literally cannot believe my eyes when comparing sets side by side in any but the highest end boutique (and even then?).
post #270 of 292
How about a plasma at 9,500 ft altitude? or better to stick with lcd/led?
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