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LED or Plasma right now? - Page 2

post #31 of 292
This is the thread I have been looking for! My old Samsung DLP is on its last legs and I have been TV hunting for about a week. I was only looking at LED LCD TVs until I read the reviews and saw the Panasonic GT50 up close. Picture looks great. My only concern is with ghost images on a plasma tv. I know the tech has gotten better, but I still see people complaining about it. As a breakdown, I probably watch 60% HDTV, 20% gaming, and 20% Blu-ray movies. Any thoughts on if this will be an issue?
post #32 of 292
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caduceus77 View Post

This is the thread I have been looking for! My old Samsung DLP is on its last legs and I have been TV hunting for about a week. I was only looking at LED LCD TVs until I read the reviews and saw the Panasonic GT50 up close. Picture looks great. My only concern is with ghost images on a plasma tv. I know the tech has gotten better, but I still see people complaining about it. As a breakdown, I probably watch 60% HDTV, 20% gaming, and 20% Blu-ray movies. Any thoughts on if this will be an issue?

my current 42" plasma gets it when say you watch a bluray and it has borders, doesnt really bother me because it gets washed away soon as a image goes over it.

Only thing that would truely bother me is dead pixels or light bleeding.
post #33 of 292
I was recently in the same boat this past February. I had bought a 55" Samsung Led-LCD the previous year that replaced a 61" DLP. After a year I was happy with the TV, but wanted a bigger size. There were a few things I disliked about my LED which led me to troll the plasma forums. Having never owned a plasma, I was quite skeptical about burn-in and the overall brightness. After a lot of research, I went with the plasma Panasonic 65VT30. It blew my expectations out of the water. Brightness and burn-in have not been issues at all. Even my wife commented on how much the picture improved from the LED. I put the LED in my bedroom since it is still a great television, but can't compete with the Panasonic.
post #34 of 292
I was in the same situation last year searching. but being retired and a fixed income was also looking
for a economical solution to rising prices of power bills. I for one think gas will be $6 a gallon soon.
living in Ca. they banned large screen plasma TV. they use a large amount of power many near
400+ watts. a same size screen led about 1/4 of that and a led even a bit less than that. found the
power usage listed on testing of large screens listed at cnet.

that said you suggested the sony EX model. after viewing those at many stores and avs forums on it.
I liked the picture better on the HX and the many viewers there helped me make my decision.
the sony EX model is like going from a chevy to a HX model decked out cadillac in quality picture.

that said, keep your plasma for gaming and conserve power with the best LED. plasma has the much better
response times for games the led and lcds both lack in that department.

I do not game at all so it made my choice clear. I went for the best in picture 3D not really having plans
to watch 3D. 6 months later I did upgrade to watching 3D and it did not disappoint.

400 watts generates a lot of heat, hope that helps.
post #35 of 292
I have a Panasonic P50G20 (not the GT20) which has been calibrated using the Disney WoW BD and even folks who have the Samsung UN46B8500 (full LED array local dimming LCD) have commented on how the great PQ is. The B8500 has never been calibrated.

However, I have noticed that it does not take much to have image retention on my plasma. I have set up the anti-IR features on the panel (pixel orbiter and scrolling bars), but its a pain to run scrolling bars for 15 mins every week. My panel does NOT buzz, but if you put up a white background like a blank browser window it does emit a very low buzzy sound and yes if I put my hand within 2-3 inches of the actual panel I can feel the heat (but that's the extent of the heat....it's not a furnace as some folks have reported)

Finally, how much PQ is really required? Lets face it, not ALL your video sources have the same quality. As a regular Netflix BD user, I can tell that not all BD's (lets say, post 2010 releases) have the same level of quality and HD TV channels also vary in quality. So a more philosophical question is what exactly are we chasing in PQ? What does reaching ideal black and ideal white on a test chart really mean when watching Elmo or Kardasians?

Will a properly calibrated (forget professionally calibrated) LED backlight LCD panel of newer vintage not give 99.9999% of the users the same benefit of a properly calibrated plasma?

PS: Sorry for the longish post, I am running anti-IR scrolling bars on my plasma...so I had nothing better to do.tongue.gif
post #36 of 292
I guess for me I like the look of the plasma TVs better and if there was no issue at all with burn in I would have already purchased the Panasonic GT50. Still on the fence.
post #37 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

same Y and D panels like last year's models
D means VA
Y means IPS

This is only for 2011 correct? I thought they all were ips in 2012? If I am wrong let me know.
post #38 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotthree View Post

This is only for 2011 correct? I thought they all were ips in 2012? If I am wrong let me know.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think the panel lottery still stands. It might vary from model to model and based on screen size though.
post #39 of 292
Be sure to buy from an authorized dealer so the warranty is valid.
post #40 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caduceus77 View Post

I guess for me I like the look of the plasma TVs better and if there was no issue at all with burn in I would have already purchased the Panasonic GT50. Still on the fence.

Having had my 60GT50 for a few weeks, watched a lot of CNN and sports (the last 4 NHL games) and have about 15 hrs of PS3 gaming in there and yes there is minor IR that popped up here and there but it never lasted more than a few hours. I mix up my viewing quite a bit with full screen shows from Netflix and BDs (of course no logos from those two sources) and it seems to help a lot. I've had minor IR with all my plasmas but it was never permanent (never became an issue with burn-in). But it will take a bit of effort on your part (i.e. never leaving a static image/logo overnight) which IMO is more than worth it to enjoy the phenomenal image quality.

But if this is something you're not sure you want to deal with, and it's totally understandable if you don't, then stick with full-array LCD/LED with local dimming. It's not cheap but it will come close to matching the new plasmas (in PQ, not in viewing angle) without having to worry about image burn, and you'll get a few bonuses with LCD like a much lower power consumption and no buzzing when viewing whites or bright scenes. If you can wait a few weeks/months then the Sharp 945 might be the TV for you. It's essentially an Elite that's priced closer to a plasma.
post #41 of 292
Wife just came back from the Recycling area of our local dump. Noticed, the bulk of the TVs there for recycling were plasmas versus LEDs. All my LEDS I've gotten over the years are still working with their new owners except, my mother-in-laws that blew during a storm. 4 new capacitors - up and running again. My original former Sharp, also took a hit during a storm producing a line down the middle of the screen. UPSs everyone! And plug the TV in on the Battery side!
post #42 of 292
LED is overrated its for posers whos top priority is the thinness of their tv.

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

Wife just came back from the Recycling area of our local dump. Noticed, the bulk of the TVs there for recycling were plasmas versus LEDs. All my LEDS I've gotten over the years are still working with their new owners except, my mother-in-laws that blew during a storm. 4 new capacitors - up and running again. My original former Sharp, also took a hit during a storm producing a line down the middle of the screen. UPSs everyone! And plug the TV in on the Battery side!

95% of tv buyers dont properly calibrate or even adjust anything period. The ones with burnt out plasmas are the peasants who ran their tvs for 22hrs a day, 7 days a week on max settings.
post #43 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Princeismyname View Post

LED is overrated its for posers whos top priority is the thinness of their tv.
Quote:
95% of tv buyers dont properly calibrate or even adjust anything period. The ones with burnt out plasmas are the peasants who ran their tvs for 22hrs a day, 7 days a week on max settings.

What percentage of TV viewers are Peasants - probably about 95%!
2% for Commercial use, with us TV Nuts making up the last 3%. The peasants like their TVs BRIGHT! Since peasants are usually happy just to have colour, then they should be buying LEDs to get more months of use from them. BUT, since Plasmas are Bigger, Cheaper - guess what they buy? (And burn out) Manufacturer's will cater somewhat to us Nuts, but they're in it for the volume buying Peasants who'll get 2 or 3 years out of their sets. Burn them out, then go buy another one.
post #44 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

What percentage of TV viewers are Peasants - probably about 95%!
2% for Commercial use, with us TV Nuts making up the last 3%. The peasants like their TVs BRIGHT! Since peasants are usually happy just to have colour, then they should be buying LEDs to get more months of use from them. BUT, since Plasmas are Bigger, Cheaper - guess what they buy? (And burn out) Manufacturer's will cater somewhat to us Nuts, but they're in it for the volume buying Peasants who'll get 2 or 3 years out of their sets. Burn them out, then go buy another one.

biggrin.gif
post #45 of 292
Well the averge consumer doesnt even tweak or caljbrate their tvs cause they always think out of the box is best lmao. They think it comes tweaked in the factory lol. Either that or they dont know what the hell theyre doing. I have friends who run their tvs in torch mode it looks downright atrociois. Killing the tv and everyones eyes. Backlights at 7/10, brightness and contrast at 90, my god.

If youre not gonna bother tweaking it properly, then you dont deserve to own a tv. Throw it out or give it to someone competant.
post #46 of 292
And yet, some here may be considered "peasants" in other areas of interest. . . And, I venture to say were "peasants" of the TV world at one time.

Also, there are many here that look down their noses at others here based on their own personal values and standards of TV characteristics. Arrogance probably won't attract nor help those who have limited technical knowledge.

Just sayin' . . .cool.gif
post #47 of 292
Those reading here, came because they wanted to step up from being a peasant. They've learned the manufacturers tweak their sets to draw the crowds in, and they wanted THEIR sets to look Different - namely - CORRECT! They wanted their sets to look correct, and do their best to obtain the results. They come to this Forum to learn how to manage this. To hear of others with their problems and how to overcome them. The pluses and minuses of what they have chosen, or how to find what to choose. We're not thumbing our noses at the peasants, just wanting to be better informed, resulting in, hopefully the Ultimate PQ, and the Best we can get out of our purchase!
post #48 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

they wanted THEIR sets to look Different - namely - CORRECT! They wanted their sets to look correct, and do their best to obtain the results. They come to this Forum to learn how to manage this.

hopefully not by copying or eyeballing settings... which is all too common on this side of the forum
post #49 of 292
I bought a Panasonic TH-50PH9UK 5 years ago, I go into Best Buy and my plasma still smokes all led and lcds screens! And its only 1080i, The blacks are richer and the whites are right on! I'm keeping mine till it dies! I would look at what visual apex that's where I got mine good luck!
post #50 of 292
I was going to buy a samsung 64d8000 plasma yesterday, however I felt the colors were just too dull and dark for my tastes
compared side by side to a 55es8000 panel

The only problem was, there is currently no stock of a 60" samsung led where I'm at
post #51 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by theblademan View Post

I was going to buy a samsung 64d8000 plasma yesterday, however I felt the colors were just too dull and dark for my tastes
compared side by side to a 55es8000 panel
The only problem was, there is currently no stock of a 60" samsung led where I'm at

Keep in mind that in-store environment and lighting will always make it seem as though plasmas are dull and dark. Hope you get es8000 and enjoy it but If you're basing your decision on what you saw in-store then you've just ruled out plasmas for the wrong reasons.
post #52 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATC7 View Post

Keep in mind that in-store environment and lighting will always make it seem as though plasmas are dull and dark. Hope you get es8000 and enjoy it but If you're basing your decision on what you saw in-store then you've just ruled out plasmas for the wrong reasons.

not to mention that all TVs there are in torch mode by default (and will return to torch mode defaults automatically after a while even if the settings and/or modes are changed by a shopper)
Edited by PlasmaPZ80U - 7/2/12 at 3:48pm
post #53 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATC7 View Post

Keep in mind that in-store environment and lighting will always make it seem as though plasmas are dull and dark. Hope you get es8000 and enjoy it but If you're basing your decision on what you saw in-store then you've just ruled out plasmas for the wrong reasons.

you saying I should take another look? they gave me a pretty good price on the 64" plasma

the video playing was just too dark like something was wrong with the set
so I went ahead and placed a reservation for a 60es8000, eventhough the size
of the 64d8000 is what I NEED for watching movies in total darkness

how about the buzzing, the higher energy consumption, IR ?

These are the other issues that concerned me

Thanks
post #54 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

not mention that all TVs there are in torch mode by default (and will return to torch mode defaults automatically after a while even if the settings and/or modes are changed by a shopper)

Now that you mentioned it, I didn't take time to change the settings
on the 64" plasma tv, I am wondering now if I should have, I think
I"m going to have another look at it

Can I ask you what you think about the other issues that concern plasmas? The buzzing,
the energy consumption, the IR/Burn in?

How do they perform in total darkness?
post #55 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by theblademan View Post

you saying I should take another look? they gave me a pretty good price on the 64" plasma
the video playing was just too dark like something was wrong with the set
so I went ahead and placed a reservation for a 60es8000, eventhough the size
of the 64d8000 is what I NEED for watching movies in total darkness
how about the buzzing, the higher energy consumption, IR ?
These are the other issues that concerned me
Thanks

Taking another look in the store doesn't really help. What I'm saying is the TV will look totally different in your home theatre room. My 60GT50 is super bright, in fact in THX Bright Room setting it's too bright for my room. Of course I'd never know it seeing it in the store as it does indeed look drab and uninviting compared to LCD/LEDs. My post was strictly in response to brightness and pop seen in store. IMO, those are not the reasons to avoid plasmas, certainly not the 2012 models especially from Panasonic.

Buzzing, higher energy consumption and IR? Yes, those are legitimate issues with plasmas and I would totally understand avoiding plasma if any or all those factors are things you don't want to put up with. Buzzing is sadly a part of plasma TVs, all plasmas I've owned buzzed but the 60GT50 I have buzzes a lot more, especially noticed when viewing bright content with low volume. I exchanged it once and the new one is the same. Some people swear that theirs is silent but I have yet to see a non-buzzing plasma. I think some people can't hear it as well while others can put up with it. Unfortunately I'm cursed with zero-loss hearing which is why my second 60GT50 is going back.

Energy consumption on my set peaks at the high 400 watts range (all white background) but averages in the 150-300 watts during normal viewing. Still very high IMO but not a deal breaker for me. Ditto for IR. It happens but it's all non-permanent (I watch a lot of CNN and channels with bright logos and game a fair bit on a PS3). You do have to take care not to leave a static image overnight as that might lead to severe IR or even burn-in which is permanent. Thankfully, the Pansonics at least (I'm sure Samsungs have a similar feature) have a setting in menu that turns off the TV if in three hours there was no activity.

Sadly, the only LED/LCD TVs that I've seen that came close to matching my 60GT50's image were the Elite and the Sony HX929, both of which are double the price, not to mention that neither match the GT50 in viewing angles. It seems there is no perfect TV, everything is a compromise. The question is, which compromises are you most willing to live with?

FWIW, I'm a little excited about the upcoming Sharp 945 series. It looks to have most if not all the Elite features (full array with local dimming, RGB+Y etc....) at a lower cost. If it does end up matching the Elite in PQ, with its price, the only compromise there might then be the viewing angle and that IMO would make it one of the best overall TVs.
post #56 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by theblademan View Post

Now that you mentioned it, I didn't take time to change the settings
on the 64" plasma tv, I am wondering now if I should have, I think
I"m going to have another look at it
Can I ask you what you think about the other issues that concern plasmas? The buzzing,
the energy consumption, the IR/Burn in?
How do they perform in total darkness?

I'd do product research online and read expert reviews if possible (stuff like CNET and CR.org... it's not perfect but will tell you a lot more than you will find out in store or via user reviews on most sites). You can also find the owner threads for the TVs your are considering on this forum (LCD and Plasma sections) for user reviews from fellow AVS members, some of which are picky enough to share all the pros/cons of their set (which is the next best thing to expert reviews, especially when it comes to things like the LCD panel lotteries). You can't judge PQ accurately in the store given the bright harsh florescent lighting in most stores. So, even if you change the pic mode and settings, you still won't know how it will look in your home (unless the TV you're looking at is in a darkened room or section of the store that is close enough to your typical viewing environment).

I have a 2008 entry level 1080p plasma from Panasonic and I have no buzzing whatsoever or issues with IR/burn-in (fleeting IR is there, but nothing persistent or permanent). Power consumption is average, given it's only a 42" screen. It performs great in total darkness and has pretty good blacks compared to the typical LCD today (last time I measured it was .017 fL in my fully calibrated Cinema mode).
Edited by PlasmaPZ80U - 7/2/12 at 4:03pm
post #57 of 292
i can't think of a single reason why you wouldn't get a Plasma, since you are currently a plasma owner. Plasmas have just gotten better. There's nothing wrong with LED but if you were satisfied before, you'll be fine. As far as glare and IR and all the things that keep being brought up... if it wasn't a problem before, it won't be again.
post #58 of 292
EASILY! LCD/LED...I bought the Samsung es8000 but your budget would allow the 6000/6500 in a 55/60. I tested everything plasma and LCd 60" and up when shopping the past three weeks under proper conditions. I brought a Sony s550 bluray player with 5th element,, avatar toy story3 and casablanca blu rays to test to my satisfaction......I bought the Samsung es8000 one week ago.

It easily outshined any plasma. It was only bested by the ELITE. Definately a notch above the Samsung 7500 and i dont know why as i thought only skype cam and smart features separated them but it was worth the xtra few bucks.

LOVE THIS SET! inky black, razor sharp detail, gorgeous color palet, endless tweaks available....it seems to have improved over the past week.

Right now there is a promo to get the Samsung soundbar subwoofer. A nice add if you need sound or can use a second system. My soundbar will go to the game room and mate with my 7 yr old Sony 60" RPlcd.

I have absolutely zero complaints one week in. Every single blu, dvd or fios source material thrown at it looks profoundly better than I ever have seen them before.

I matched the samsung 6500 3d blu player and do recommend it as a great source (love the slot load feature and sexy look to match the sexiest looking flat screen on the market right now)
post #59 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bladerunner1959 View Post

EASILY! LCD/LED...I bought the Samsung es8000 but your budget would allow the 6000/6500 in a 55/60. I tested everything plasma and LCd 60" and up when shopping the past three weeks under proper conditions. I brought a Sony s550 bluray player with 5th element,, avatar toy story3 and casablanca blu rays to test to my satisfaction......I bought the Samsung es8000 one week ago.
It easily outshined any plasma. It was only bested by the ELITE. Definately a notch above the Samsung 7500 and i dont know why as i thought only skype cam and smart features separated them but it was worth the xtra few bucks.
LOVE THIS SET! inky black, razor sharp detail, gorgeous color palet, endless tweaks available....it seems to have improved over the past week.
Right now there is a promo to get the Samsung soundbar subwoofer. A nice add if you need sound or can use a second system. My soundbar will go to the game room and mate with my 7 yr old Sony 60" RPlcd.
I have absolutely zero complaints one week in. Every single blu, dvd or fios source material thrown at it looks profoundly better than I ever have seen them before.
I matched the samsung 6500 3d blu player and do recommend it as a great source (love the slot load feature and sexy look to match the sexiest looking flat screen on the market right now)

Nice TV the ES8000, I've only seen it in stores and at a friend's but objectively speaking there's no way it beats the 2012 Panasonic Plasmas. An edge-lit LCD (ES8000) cannot beat a good plasma in terms of colour accuracy, contrast and black levels, not to mention uniformity and off-axis viewing. The only thing that comes close to matching this year's Pannys are full-array LED/LCDs with local dimming; i.e. The Elite, and even then the Elite was beaten overall by the VT50 in this year's VE shootout. If you look at the shootout (link), which included the ES8000, most the top scorers in Black Levels, Contrast Ratio, Colour Accuracy and Sharpness went to plasmas (VT50 and E8000) and the Elite beat the VT50 by a hair in black levels and contrast but still lost overall. The ES8000 wasn't even close if you look at the results towards the end (box) from the link above. Believe me, there are many drawbacks to plasmas but overall-PQ isn't one of them.
post #60 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATC7 View Post

Nice TV the ES8000, I've only seen it in stores and at a friend's but objectively speaking there's no way it beats the 2012 Panasonic Plasmas. An edge-lit LCD (ES8000) cannot beat a good plasma in terms of colour accuracy, contrast and black levels, not to mention uniformity and off-axis viewing. The only thing that comes close to matching this year's Pannys are full-array LED/LCDs with local dimming; i.e. The Elite, and even then the Elite was beaten overall by the VT50 in this year's VE shootout. If you look at the shootout (link), which included the ES8000, most the top scorers in Black Levels, Contrast Ratio, Colour Accuracy and Sharpness went to plasmas (VT50 and E8000) and the Elite beat the VT50 by a hair in black levels and contrast but still lost overall. The ES8000 wasn't even close if you look at the results towards the end (box) from the link above. Believe me, there are many drawbacks to plasmas but overall-PQ isn't one of them.

based on that link, the Panasonic VT50 plasma was best and the Samsung E8000 plasma was nearly as good too... the Sharp Elite wasn't bad, but costs WAY more and so that's something to keep in mind if you are looking for the most bang for the buck and best screen uniformity/viewing angles/color accuracy... also keep in mind that best black level and contrast ratio only counts if you view the TV directly from the H and V center... move away slightly and it all begins to fall apart vs. the VT50 or E8000
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