Media Center to be free with Win 8 Upgrade and a low cost upgrade - Page 3

Thanks, really appreciate the info you provided, I was not aware of it. Instead of upgrading my Win 7 Home Premium to Win 7 Pro now, I think that I will wait until this Win 8 upgrade deal goes live, and then either upgrade to Win 8 or use the Win 7 Pro option you mentioned.

I don't think that article is correct. Unless MS changes their policy for Win8 this won't get you a downgrade option.
http://www.microsoft.com/oem/en/licensing/sblicensing/pages/downgrade_rights.aspx

I think MS are expecting a rocky road with 8. They're testing the waters with this unified Metro interface, which they hope will be a success on desktops, tablets and phones. Trouble is, I don't think this is a 'one size fits all' market. Trying to force desktop/laptop users to use an interface primarily designed for phones and tablets is a asking a lot from consumers, but for MS it's s sure fire way to save in development costs. To really get the most from Metro, no matter what MS say, you need a touch screen, and while monitor manufacturers will be pushing everything 'touch' in the coming months, in the current economic climate, I can't see a huge queue forming. Once you try and fumble around Metro with a keyboard and mouse, you quickly realise how difficult it is to navigate. Business are likely to totally bypass 8 as well. In my company, were well on the way with our Win7 deployment, and feedback is very good. Metro is just not a business class interface, and would lead to a huge drop in productivity as far as I can see.

Rumours are Apple is considering moving iOS to the desktop as well, unifying their desktop/mobile interfaces. It will be interesting to see, if they try this, whether it works for them either.

Microsoft would be smart to have the option for a typical desktop interface with the start button on their Win8 platform and not have Metro be the lone interface. I think they do too.

+1
Most defense contractors use a form of linux in there systems to keep costs down. The end user doesn't care whats underneath, they are trained to operate the software when it comes out. The Air force doesn't control which operating system is used on any of there weapons systems. The contractor sells a product and delivers.
Edited by SUBCOB - 7/4/12 at 7:23am

I can't see a rush to touchscreens happening at all outside of tablets. Touchscreen on a laptop is awkward at best and on a desktop it's a path to tendon damage.

In principle you shouldn't need a touch-screen. A large multi-touch touchpad or drawing tablet (like Wacom's current-generation Bamboo) should provide the same capabilities. Whether they really do or not, I don't know.

They do. You just have to move to the left edge to enable. Otherwise, you pin blocks or in their words apps on the main/start screen. Of course, there have not been any tests or comparisons showing 8 vs XP & 7 in speed on same hardware.

I read the page you linked to in its entirety, and it seems to be specific to OEM resale of the OS, and related issues (sublicensing, etc.). The Win8 upgrade offer is for in-place upgrading of previous versions of OS... so it seems like two different situations, to me, at least.

I guess we'll find out either way, come release time.

+1. You also end up with a screen covered in dirty finger mark smudges that hinder the quality of what you're viewing.

Plus you're obscuring the display with your hand in the first place.

I can't wait until we have touchscreen TV's so we can get rid of those pesky remote controls.

Only if you are too lazy to clean the screen after shutting down, or when you can. Our tablet never has any smudges or fingerprints, due to we keep the screen clean, so that you do not have them.

Our PC screen is dirty enough four our kids without them being required to touch it despite my best efforts to keep it clean

But who said W8 was an a future Enterprise product? I watch Windows Weekly on Twit with Paul Thurrott fairly often and never heard that mentioned. LAUSD is still using XP, I imagine they will upgrade to Windows 7 because its stable. I was just saying talking about W8 for Enterprise is Off-Topic...

I knew about this, I just forgotten about it. Thanks.

I think the problem is that you are assuming that enterprise will actually be taking MS up on this deal... I've not read of many enterprises that will go and buy retail licenses for Windows.

I don't think MS are expecting a rocky road, I think they are not stupid enough to think it is not a possibility though. As for the interface, people really need to stop and think for a bit because it is getting to be a bit of the same "Vista sucks" bandwagon that persisted via a number of people (not all) who didn't use the product in question for any extensive period of time. The interface is designed to be touch friendly, but it is not designed to be touch exclusive. I've played around with the interface and after learning some keyboard shortcuts, there are things that are better than in Windows 7, those that require some adjustment (similar to how the move from XP to Vista required adjustments) and there are those that now have more steps compared to early windows (some of these won't be issues for some people because they are usually rarely touched). It all depends on what you use your computer for that will determine how quickly (if ever) you would be able to adopt Windows 8 into your workflow. The good thing is, Windows 7 is still around and will continue to be supported and since nobody is forcing people to upgrade, I don't see why there is so much negativity towards Windows 8. It is an option, and last I heard, choice is a good thing. I find for everyday productivity (at least on a single monitor, I have not yet had enough time to play with the latest preview on my primary workstation) to be better in windows 8 - not that it was a huge hindrance in 7. I rarely used the start menu in windows 7 anyway, everything I used regularly was pinned and what I didn't have pinned could easily be searched in the start menu - which is easy to do in the new metro interface. So in a nutshell - windows search, integrated into the metro screen = search in start menu and pinning apps to the task bar = pinning tiles to the metro screen. Once you have launched the apps you need to use, metro fades into the background just as the start menu did.

If you use your computer as I do then the OS does come more into play since I juggle lots of windows at a time, but I also know quite a few people for which once the browser is launched, there is not much else the OS needs to do... the occasional loading of their media player of choice to play music/movies, ingest-catalog-edit photos etc. etc. For these people, the metro interface won't be a hindrance at all. For me, I'll be able to adapt and in time it will become second nature, as all OSes before it have. Just for reference, I have a triple monitor setup on my primary workstation and use my machine for development, documentation, cad work, photo/video/audio editing, browsing, playing media etc. etc. in essence, the usual tasks. Windows 7 will serve me fine for a while, but with MSDN /technet, it is a zero dollar investment to give windows 8 a try.

Windows 7 is very much like windows vista, but the simple aero snap feature alone is enough reason to upgrade (I am aware of third party tools - but it was just one of many reasons and a good one at that). With windows 8, there are a number of features that have my interest and would warrant further investigation... e.g. faster boot times, storage spaces/pools, multi-monitor enhancements just to name a few. You take the good with the bad and you weigh up the pros and cons for your particular usage and then make a decision if it is even something you need to consider. Afterall, quite a large number of people are still on XP so it's not like you have to upgrade (unless of course there is something that is no longer supported e.g. DirectX etc.)

I would agree, my company is transitioning about 15,000 PCs from XP to Win 7 Pro (32 bit of all things). Before that it was NT 3.5 followed my Win 2000. I can guarantee we will never be on Win 8. I think that is pretty common in enterprise. Now, at home, for $40, I'll pick up at least one upgrade to play with - I want to try out drive extender, but I expect the main machines will stay on Win 7 pro for quite a while.

Bet they still play Angry Birds on their tablets, though.

Im sorry? I just choked. Are you seriously suggesting that after years of getting people transitioning to using a mouse to navigate the desktop, we should consider going back to using keyboards??? ALT-this and SHIFT-that!! Unix'heads will love the idea, but this is not the way we should be using a modern desktop interface in 2012. Personally, I'm happy with either (I work in IT), but navigating Metro with a mouse is hard work and very frustrating. Navigating with a keyboard would, while working for some, confuse the hell out of everyone else who hardly touch the thing whenever they use a PC. Touch will obviously work on tablets and phones, but it's just not right for desktop use. If I stretch my arm out fully to my monitor, I still can't touch it. I'm not going to work with a monitor 12" from my face, and I bet the number of touch enabled monitors in use at the moment is a fraction of a fraction of a percent.

No matter how MS are going to sell Metro, 8 still needs an option for a classic desktop with the old start button, fully usable with a mouse. MS don't make much money from consumers, so if they have any plans to make serious money from 8, they need corporates to start to buy licenses in their millions on the volume license schemes, handing over the annual wodge of cash to MS just to carry on using Windows. It's a fallacy to expect corporates to suddenly buy tablets for everyone, or go out an replace all their monitors with more expensive touch screens just to watch their staff struggle with doing the basics. No way, not in a million years will companies buy into this.

MS should release Windows 8 Enterprise with Metro turned off by default if they want to stand any chance of selling to the corps.

Teach them not to do it. They make covers that you can place over the screen. The problem with touching the LCD screens, is that the oils from your hands will slowly eat the anti-glare coating, if you do not keep them clean. We just use the flatscreen cleaner that we use on our plasma, for cleaning the computer monitors in our house. Works very well.

Kind of hard, when they are locked down to only allow what they need to do their job. Not everyone plays angry birds as you believe, and also not everyone is going to risk their jobs playing games on company time.

Keyboard shortcuts are far more efficient and productive than using a mouse in the vast majority of applications where non-spatial input is required. To move to a mouse/touch only interface would be travesty. However, as few people I've encountered know even the basics such as how to use cut, copy and paste, the interface when using a mouse is going to need to remain efficient.

Again, why harp on MS having trouble with Win 8 adoption in the enterprise sector?


The reality is that the enterprise sector is never the first to embrace a new os, regardless of how good or bad it is. Look how long it has taken just to get some companies to transition to Win 7, an OS most agree is very good. At best, I wouldnt expect Win 8 adoption until 3 years after launch, regardless of how consumer focused it is claimed to be.

Maybe MS gets this and has decided to front load the OS launch with more consumer oriented features, all the while building up what the enterprise needs in win 8 behind the scenes for when companies are ready to upgrade again. Win 7 or Win 8 sales are all the same to MS.

Adding a method for disabling the metro start screen and putting a traditional start menu back will not change enterprise adoption.

That's quite a leap. Tell me, when you do a search on your computer, do you go and click the letters in the search box with your mouse or do you use your keyboard?

The future is more likely to be skewed towards search oriented navigation... which means more keyboard reliance (or maybe speech etc.) But the fact remains, as we consume more and more data and have to deal with an ever increasing variety of data, search is one of the most logical ways to go about finding things. Sure an argument could be made that if people do proper cataloguing, proper folder structures etc. that they would always know the right mouse clicks to navigate to what they want. But the same could be said of search i.e. that with the right cataloguing and metadata structure, the search would improve.

Also, you need to read the rest of the thread. I mentioned that the majority of the time people will be using a handful of applications on a regular basis, these applications will be pinned as tiles on the metro screen so I don't see how that is any different. You have an opinion of how starting programs should work, and that is based on how you have used it for a long time. I'm not intimately familiar with all other OSes but windows start bar is unique to windows so clearly there are people out there that don't have a problem using an alternate navigation scheme.

MS did fine with the low Vista adoption in enterprise, they are also doing fine with the presently low 7 enterprise adoption. If enterprise make a move to windows 7 instead of 8, that is a win for Microsoft not a loss, they don't need Enterprise upgrading every time they release a new OS... in fact they know full well that this is never the case.

In any case, as I said, Metro is perfectly usable with mouse and keyboard, there is no requirement to have a touchscreen just because you use Metro. So painting this scenario whereby enterprise "MUST" purchase tablets and "MUST" replace all monitors with touch enabled models to use Windows 8 suggests hate for the sake of it.

Also, if you have worked in enterprise anything, the unique software that is used from one workplace (or version or alternative) to the next is often a far steeper learning curve them memorising a few keyboard shortcuts will ever be. I would also shudder to think of companies hiring people who have no ability to adapt or whose knowledge surrounding the usage of software is so rigid that small changes throw them off their game for any significant amount of time. Did you know that right clicking in applications doesn't always do the same thing? That's right, people have to learn to use different software, learning to use a new OS is just like learning to use a new application.

+1. The search function in the start menu of Windows 7 is one of the features I use the most on my work and gaming PC for starting programs and finding files, it's very quick and efficient. However, from a HTPC perspective the windows 8 interface for me will need to be able to efficiently accomplish most taks with an IR remote. The bottom line is different interfaces suit different PC roles better. For a workstation keyboard and mouse input, for a laptop keyboard and touch pad, for a HTPC IR remote, for a tablet it's touch (these are my views but then every individual has different preferences). A common interface has its advantages, but poorly executed they too often become a jack of all trades and master of none, making everyone unhappy. If Windows 8 is to be a truely common interface then it needs to allow sufficient customisation to suit a broad range of platform and user preferences.

They hand them back in to a guard as they walk out the door to go home? Or maybe they are on company time 24 hours a day...

This is essentially the problem. Windows 8 will be good for someone who moves information between a pc, a tablet and a phone. I have run into the problem of not being able to syncronize my outlook calendar on my pc and my phone. But that is a problem I can live with better than a clunky interface, the time it take to get my computer setup on a new interface, functionality that does not transfer and stuff that gets lost in the move.

The "Windows 8 to go on a thumb drive" setup does not seem to get me to being able to test media center on a dual monitor system because media center must be added later as a accessory. Maybe I will look into dual boot or just forget Windows 8 for the time being.

You can install any software you want on a Windows-to-Go drive. In that regard, it's no different from any other Win8 prerelease.

Remember that I suggested the use of Windows-to-Go just for testing, to avoid risking damage to a working Win7 installation. Windows-to-Go will not be officially available to non-enterprise users after Win8 is released, and (like all other Win8 prereleases) will expire and have to be wiped entirely when or if you decide to install an official Win8 release.

Thank...something else I did no know. I will get a 32 gb usb 2 drive, (I don't have usb 3).

Windows 7 will be a fully supported o/s for a while. We are gradually moving over to ubuntu so I won't be upgrading. I also didn't care for metro and they are causing some drama in the linux community with secure boot. The consumer version should be free as they are basically opening a store on your desktop.