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Comparison, Unbiased Review & Ranking of 12 High-End Home Cinema Audio Systems - Page 5

post #121 of 388
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by saeyedoc View Post

Doesn't Meridian's system work that way?

NO smile.gif

Meridian's system outputs digital to the speakers wherein it is converted to analogue and then amplified in the analogue domain. This is most certainly NOT the same as Steinway; and hence Meridian's system still suffers from the same audio degradation and noise introduction as conventional-type audio systems wink.gif
Edited by madboynutter - 7/7/12 at 11:44am
post #122 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by madboynutter View Post

In which case thank you for confirming that I have 20 years' A/V experience wink.gif
Wrong! as there is nothing to suggest that you possess such level of knowledge or expertise. Being an ethusiast for 20yrs doesnt suffice.
Quote:
And with regards to your analogy you have in fact entirely proved my point, in that FOOD CRITICS haven't undergone training as a Professional Chef... capish? biggrin.gif
Dont misappropriate my analogy. Dont remember anyone stating that only speaker designers and/or manufacturers can evaluate the quality and/or performance of a speaker.
post #123 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by madboynutter View Post

You have never actually auditioned a Steinway audio system have you? Because I know what I experienced when I auditioned the Steinway systems; and the room was enormous too. wink.gif

If you ever happen to pay a visit to the UK I strongly urge you to visit GECKO in Newbury and audition both S-SERIES and MODEL M systems; Rob Sinden will gladly turn the volume ABOVE reference levels for you... as he did for me... and you will eat those words my friend. tongue.gif

Many people here with dedicated rooms have treated rooms. I have a question. If the max SPL of the speaker is 114db (per manufacturer) and you have a treated room, where you lose 6db for doubling of distance and your listening distance is 13'. My room loses 6db for doubling of distance. How could the speaker play at reference level? That is 12db loss due to distance alone, not even counting power compression. Max SPL at the seat would be 102db. Reference level is 105db at the seat. Also most speakers are not playing that clean at their max output. That is why many people want to have 3db of headroom.
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post #124 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Many people here with dedicated rooms have treated rooms. I have a question. If the max SPL of the speaker is 114db (per manufacturer) and you have a treated room, where you lose 6db for doubling of distance and your listening distance is 13'. My room loses 6db for doubling of distance. How could the speaker play at reference level? That is 12db loss due to distance alone, not even counting power compression. Max SPL at the seat would be 102db. Reference level is 105db at the seat. Also most speakers are not playing that clean at their max output. That is why many people want to have 3db of headroom.


Yes, I gave up on this guy when it became clear he was going to talk around every question....


215
post #125 of 388
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

Actually, I see a lot of intelligent questions about your "methodology".

Such as? smile.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

What seems to be lacking is intelligent answers or process.

Sorry, but quit with the BS. It's obvious to anyone who reads this thread that the majority of posts have comprised aggressive attacks and criticisms, in most cases clearly demonstrating that the respective individuals have either failed to read my report properly and/or are passing judgement on my opinion on an audio system which they themselves have never even listened to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

What you wrote is an opinion paper which is fine. Your attempt to cast it as something else is the issue and it's being questioned by a community....

Sorry, but please quote a single example of were I am attempting "to cast it as something else".

Please kindly note that I state very clearly in my report that it is my opinion

Furthermore, I have reiterated this fact repeatedly throughout this thread.

Therefore, your accusation that I have been attempting to pass it off as something other than my opinion is wholly incorrect.

I suggest that you might like to re-read both my report and this thread and you will see your error. wink.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

...with far more audio science knowledge than you've exhibited to date.

Congratulations on yet again resorting to puerile insults. Please kindly note that I have absolutely no interest whatsover in partaking in a pissing contest. tongue.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

The problems began with the thread title, as your review is none of what you claim (direct, unbiased, comparison).

In my review report I am comparing 12 high-end audio brands; hence, by definition my review is indeed a comparison.

I have no affiliation to any specific brand or manufacture; therefore, by definition that makes me unbiased. If you do not agree, please kindly state exactly how I am biased.

Re "Direct" - I concede it is not direct in the absolute sense of the word because it was infeasible to 100% eliminate all influenceing factors that could to an extent affect audio peformance; however, it's as direct a comparison as is feasibly possible, isn't it?
Edited by madboynutter - 7/7/12 at 12:19pm
post #126 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by saeyedoc View Post

Doesn't Meridian's system work that way?

Yes. I have I have spent many hours listening to DSP6000's.
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post #127 of 388
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by toslat View Post

Wrong! as there is nothing to suggest that you possess such level of knowledge or expertise. Being an ethusiast for 20yrs doesnt suffice.

Sorry, but are you seriously saying that 20 years' A/V experience, including designing and building many audio systems, is insufficient knowledge or expertise to post opinion reviews of audio systems? rolleyes.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by toslat View Post

Dont misappropriate my analogy. Dont remember anyone stating that only speaker designers and/or manufacturers can evaluate the quality and/or performance of a speaker.

But you are saying that my 20 years' A/V experience, including designing and building many audio systems, is insufficient knowledge or expertise to post opinion reviews of audio systems?

In which case that is like saying a FOOD CRITIC who has 20 years' experience in the food insdustry isn't qualified to review food. QED. wink.gif
Edited by madboynutter - 7/7/12 at 12:18pm
post #128 of 388
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Yes. I have I have spent many hours listening to DSP6000's.

NO, as I have already stated (and explained why) I am afraid that Meridian's system does NOT operate this way. smile.gif
post #129 of 388
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Many people here with dedicated rooms have treated rooms. I have a question. If the max SPL of the speaker is 114db (per manufacturer) and you have a treated room, where you lose 6db for doubling of distance and your listening distance is 13'. My room loses 6db for doubling of distance. How could the speaker play at reference level? That is 12db loss due to distance alone, not even counting power compression. Max SPL at the seat would be 102db. Reference level is 105db at the seat. Also most speakers are not playing that clean at their max output. That is why many people want to have 3db of headroom.

I believe that the reason your conclusion is incorrect is because your original assumption is incorrect. wink.gif

As I have already stated, I have actually measured the SPL outputted by the Steinway S-Series System; and it breezes reference levels. smile.gif
post #130 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by madboynutter View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

Actually, I see a lot of intelligent questions about your "methodology".

Such as? smile.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

What seems to be lacking is intelligent answers or process.

Sorry, but quit with the BS. It's obvious to anyone who reads this thread that the majority of posts have comprised aggressive attacks and criticisms, in most cases clearly demonstrating that the respective individuals have either failed to read my report properly and/or are passing judgement on my opinion on an audio system which they themselves have never even listened to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

What you wrote is an opinion paper which is fine. Your attempt to cast it as something else is the issue and it's being questioned by a community....

Sorry, but please quote a single example of were I am attempting "to cast it as something else".

Please kindly note that I state very clearly in my report that it is my opinion

Furthermore, I have reiterated this fact repeatedly throughout this thread.

Therefore, your accusation that I have been attempting to pass it off as something other than my opinion is wholly incorrect.

I suggest that you might like to re-read both my report and this thread and you will see your error. wink.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

...with far more audio science knowledge than you've exhibited to date.

Congratulations on yet again resorting to puerile insults. Please kindly note that I have absolutely no interest whatsover in partaking in a pissing contest. tongue.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

The problems began with the thread title, as your review is none of what you claim (direct, unbiased, comparison).

In my review report I am comparing 12 high-end audio brands; hence, by definition my review is indeed a comparison.

I have no affiliation to any specific brand or manufacture; therefore, by definition that makes me unbiased. If you do not agree, please kindly state exactly how I am biased please.

Re "Direct" - I concede it is not direct in the absolute sense of the word because it was infeasible to 100% eliminate all influenceing factors that could to an extent affect audio peformance; however, it's as direct a comparison as is feasibly possible, isn't it?

Rather than needlessly respond to that long form, I'll simply say:

"It can't be everyone else all the time"

You posted an ego piece masquerading as something with legitimacy and got called out on it - virtually universally here, which by itself is a rarity. Perhaps false claims weren't identified or the community didn't care as much in your previous endeavors in mock health "remedies" but for better or worse, AVS rarely lets BS slide.

For whatever the reasons for the production, you do seem to have put time into this. Too bad you aren't willing to learn so that the product could be improved because in its current state, there are far too many inconsistencies and incorrect information to be useful.
post #131 of 388
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

Yes, I gave up on this guy when it became clear he was going to talk around every question....
215

So it's apparent that my taking the time to answer everyone's question is now also being criticised... tongue.gif
post #132 of 388
Here is the Steinway-Lyngdorf speaker at AXPONA NY 2011, (those are CD's on the table in front of the speaker, and the CD's look to be the same size as the "woofer"):

700

To give some more perspective, here is Peter Lyngdorf giving the marketing schtick, (the speaker is the object on the shelf behind him):

450

Now, here is the Triad Platinum LCR, (this is the right, front speaker in my basement HT, (note the CD case for perspective):

650

And you want us to believe that the Steinway Lyngdorf speaker has the potential for "limitless output"... more-so than any of the other speakers you "reviewed"???
Quote:
madboynutter said:
The volume capability of the S-SERIES audio system is practically limitless. Firstly, despite the tiny
size of the STEINWAY LYNGDORF S-15 speakers the S-SERIES audio system outputs more
sound than even the largest and most expensive of other audio systems.

You must be joking. Either that or there is some very funny stuff being ingested with your nutritional supplements. eek.gif

I actually *heard* the pictured S-L system at AXPONA NY. As I stated, it had surprising output for its' size. It also had very good sound quality... very open, airy, even uncompressed; again, surprisingly so for such a small speaker system. However, your HYPERBOLIC statement above is so over the top that it loses all credibility. There is NFW it can compete for sheer, undistorted, uncompressed output with any of the larger systems you "reviewed." I have heard the Procella system, the Klipsch THX U2 system, (in 3 different installations), the JBL Synthesis system, an older version of the M&K system, and the Wisdom Audio system. ALL of those system have the potential for VASTLY more undistorted, uncompressed, dynamic output than the S-L system. You are entitled to your opinion of the sound quality of the S-L system, (questioinable as that may be.) However, you are not entitled to your own FACTS. And the fact of the matter is that these other systems will simply have more output capability than the S-L system. I can't imagine that even Peter Lyngdorf would try to claim otherwise.

More importantly, your portrayal of Triad as a "wolf in sheep's clothing" is so utterly ridiculous that it absolutely destroys *any* credibility you might have had.
Quote:
madboynutter said:
CONCLUSION:
 However well you try to dress up a wolf in sheep’s clothing you simply cannot change
the fact that it is still in fact a wolf; and the same goes for A/V equipment. Acoustic
colouration is a phenomenon which almost without exception plagues all horn type
speakers; and unfortunately Triad’s flagship range of audio equipment, as good as it
is in other areas, suffers from exactly this affliction, resulting in the typical ‘honky’
non-neutral, inaccurate, coloured sound that has come to be expected from speakers
with this type of architecture. Furthermore, invariably horn type speakers are better
suited to listening to music than home cinema usage; and this is exactly the case
here. For these reasons alone my advice is to avoid, unless you happen to be
fanatical about horn type speakers; but even then there are much better choices.

You are entitled to your opinion of Triad speakers, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with it, or respect it... or you. Once you proffer this kind of nonsense as some seemingly "experienced" opinion, I lose all respect for anything else you have to say, (your ability to make ice cream notwithstanding.)

To address the issue of "honkiness with the Triad Platinums, I submit a full range measurement of the speakers in my room:

290

Please point out the anomaly that would sound like "honkiness" in this measurement.

Craig
Edited by craig john - 7/7/12 at 2:19pm
post #133 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewHTbuyer View Post

Umm..not sure what to say to this. I live in CO in the USA, not England. Go ahead and read my posts if you want to waste time.
You are definitely entitled to your opinion, as is the OP. I was mainly trying to point out that the initial reaction of you and other posters was to doubt that he is who he says he is and view his "report" as a marketing ploy. No doubt such tactics have been used before and you smelled something fishy. OK, fine, you have been on these boards way longer than I am, and thus have more experience with such underhanded tactics. What I saw was people piling on the OP before he had even had a chance to verify his identity. That is a crummy way to treat others, guilty until proven innocent if you get my drift.
Let's just go to our separate corners now. Maybe next time I won't be so naive when I see a thread like his and you won't be so skeptical until more facts are known.

You are putting words into my mouth, I never claimed the report is a marketing ploy. I am staffed on one of the three audio boards this "report" was posted at, so I know more about the OP's identity than you realize. I just didn't feel it necessary to put his personal info out there. Because if nothing else, all I need to support my skepticism is the OP's review. That alone is enough.
post #134 of 388
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

Rather than needlessly respond to that long form, I'll simply say:
"It can't be everyone else all the time"
You posted an ego piece masquerading as something with legitimacy and got called out on it - virtually universally here, which by itself is a rarity. Perhaps false claims weren't identified or the community didn't care as much in your previous endeavors in mock health "remedies" but for better or worse, AVS rarely let's BS slide.
For whatever the reasons for the production, you do seem to have put time into this. Too bad you aren't willing to learn so that the product could be improved because in its current state, there are far too many inconsistencies and incorrect information to be useful.

Yes folks, we have yet more puerile insults, instead of intelligent discussion.

Well at least we seem to be progressing somewhat in the right direction, in that I am now being accused of posting "an ego piece" as opposed to 'a sales piece'... however, I completely fail to understand how my posting an opinion paper makes it an "ego piece".
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

Too bad you aren't willing to learn so that the product could be improved because in its current state, there are far too many inconsistencies and incorrect information to be useful.

"Too bad you aren't willing to learn"??? Don't patronize me boy.

Your so-called "inconsistencies and incorrect information" are in fact nothing more than your opinion, which of course you are perfectly entitled to; but this does not make my opinions "incorrect".

Why can't you simply say you don't agree with my opinion and leave it at that? confused.gif
post #135 of 388
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

I actually *heard* the pictured S-L system at AXPONA NY. As I stated, it had surprising output for its' size. It also had very good sound quality... very open, airy, even uncompressed; again, surprisingly so for such a small speaker system. However, your HYPERBOLIC statement above is so over the top that it loses all credibility. There is NFW it can compete for sheer, undistorted, uncompressed output with any of the larger systems you "reviewed." I have heard the Procella system, the Klipsch THX U2 system, (in 3 different installations), the JBL Synthesis system, an older version of the M&K system, and the Wisdom Audio system. ALL of those system have the potential for VASTLY more undistorted, uncompressed, dynamic output than the S-L system. You are entitled to your opinion of the sound quality of the S-L system, (questioinable as that may be).


However, you are not entitled to your own FACTS. And the fact of the matter is that these other systems will simply have more output capability than the S-L system. I can't imagine that even Peter Lyngdorf would try to claim otherwise.

More importantly, your portrayal of Triad as a "wolf in sheep's clothing" is so ridiculous that it absolutely destroys *any* credibility you might have had.

You are entitled to your opinion of Triad speakers, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with it, respect it... or you. Once you proffer this kind of nonsense as some seemingly "experienced" opinion, I lose all respect for anything else you have to say, (your ability to make ice cream notwithstanding.)
To address the issue of "honkiness with the Triad Platinums, I submit a full range measurement of the speakers in my room:
290
Please point out the anomaly that would sound like "honkiness" in this measurement.
Craig

Hi Craig,

It was inevitable that by writing a brutally honest opinion I would offend the owners of the brands that I gave low scores to. As such, it is clear that I have upset you and you'd like to pick a fight with me, but that is not going to happen. smile.gif

Let's agree to disagree OK? I respect your opinion. I simply ask that you respect mine.

And with regards to the SPL capability of the Steinway S-Series Audio system I will publish the test results of the system I am installing into the Cinema I am currently building. Let's wait for those and see, OK?

You can harp on about the fact that the S-15's 5 /14" driver isn't capable of outputting the SPL levels necessary to achieve reference levels til the cows come home... it won't change the FACT that I measured it doing just that with an SPL Meter. wink.gif

So I repeat let's wait and see how the test results of the S-Series System I am installing pans out, OK? smile.gif
post #136 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by madboynutter View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

Rather than needlessly respond to that long form, I'll simply say:
"It can't be everyone else all the time"
You posted an ego piece masquerading as something with legitimacy and got called out on it - virtually universally here, which by itself is a rarity. Perhaps false claims weren't identified or the community didn't care as much in your previous endeavors in mock health "remedies" but for better or worse, AVS rarely let's BS slide.
For whatever the reasons for the production, you do seem to have put time into this. Too bad you aren't willing to learn so that the product could be improved because in its current state, there are far too many inconsistencies and incorrect information to be useful.

Yes folks, we have yet more puerile insults, instead of intelligent discussion.

Well at least we seem to be progressing somewhat in the right direction, in that I am now being accused of posting "an ego piece" as opposed to 'a sales piece'... however, I completely fail to understand how my posting an opinion paper makes it an "ego piece".
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

Too bad you aren't willing to learn so that the product could be improved because in its current state, there are far too many inconsistencies and incorrect information to be useful.

"Too bad you aren't willing to learn"??? Don't patronize me boy.

Your so-called "inconsistencies and incorrect information" are in fact nothing more than your opinion, which of course you are perfectly entitled to; but this does not make my opinions "incorrect".

Why can't you simply say you don't agree with my opinion and leave it at that? confused.gif

Sorry, but as Craig John replied above, you are welcome to your own opinion but not welcome to your own facts. Your claims simply don't align with physics and the gushings about your favorite speaker company are technically absurd.

Also liked how you complain about insults in the same post you make several including calling me "boy", though that's as technical as any of the other responses from you to date.

In my opinion, there could only be two purposes for your "review". Either a marketing piece or a purely ego driven exercise to show off all of the expensive gear you have allegedly listened to.

Either way, not much of a success.
post #137 of 388
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tesseract67 View Post

...so I know more about the OP's identity than you realize. I just didn't feel it necessary to put his personal info out there.

Don't try and imply that there is something sinister with regards to my "personal info" or "identity" because if you have it you know that there isn't. rolleyes.gif

You're playing games matey and I am calling you on it! wink.gif

And for what it's worth, I have already posted my identity and personal details, so there in fact isn't any "more" to "know", is there? tongue.gif
post #138 of 388
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

Your claims simply don't align with physics and the gushings about your favorite speaker company are technically absurd.

Erm... aren't we forgetting about MK SOUND? confused.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post


Also liked how you complain about insults in the same post you make several including calling me "boy"...

Ah, so you are allowed to insult me, but I am not allowed to stand up to you? Is that how you see it?

Not a very good bully are you? tongue.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post


In my opinion, there could only be two purposes for your "review". Either a marketing piece or a purely ego driven exercise to show off all of the expensive gear you have allegedly listened to.
Either way, not much of a success.

Aw, you went and spoiled that with the word "allegedly".. I've already stated where I auditioned everything and have even given contact names. I have even offered to have a photo taken of me with the KEF speakers which I still have sitting in my living room, however I am sure that even photographic evidence wouldn't be enough for you... biggrin.gif
post #139 of 388
Quote:
NO

Meridian's system outputs digital to the speakers wherein it is converted to analogue and then amplified in the analogue domain. This is most certainly NOT the same as Steinway; and hence Meridian's system still suffers from the same audio degradation and noise introduction as conventional-type audio systems

So how doesn't the panasonic bypass the issue of audio degradation?
post #140 of 388
Thread Starter 
OK everyone,

It's been fun, but I'm signing off now... feel free to fight amongst yourselves biggrin.gif

I hope to make a start on my posting with regards to my latest uber-cinema installation... finger's crossed we see a bit more intelligent discussion and a bit less schoolyard behaviour than what's been happening in this thread. wink.gif

All the best,

Nigel smile.gif
post #141 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by madboynutter View Post

Don't try and imply that there is something sinister with regards to my "personal info" or "identity" because if you have it you know that there isn't. rolleyes.gif
You're playing games matey and I am calling you on it! wink.gif
And for what it's worth, I have already posted my identity and personal details, so there in fact isn't any "more" to "know", is there? tongue.gif

NewHTbuyer incorrectly assumed I knew nothing about you. I am saying that I already knew your identity and personal details before you revealed them here. Nothing sinister about dietary supplements and property management, but they do not make you an audio expert. In fact, you have proven to the community quite the opposite.

If you do indeed wish to learn more about this hobby of ours, you would do well to take note of what the community is telling you. Or continue to counter facts with a lot of hot air, using terms like Panoramic Audio, Volume Capability, Cinema Reference Level, and tales of ice cream making.

Just saying. smile.gif
post #142 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by madboynutter View Post

I believe that the reason your conclusion is incorrect is because your original assumption is incorrect. wink.gif
As I have already stated, I have actually measured the SPL outputted by the Steinway S-Series System; and it breezes reference levels. smile.gif

I don't follow you here. What Assumption did I make? Many rooms lose 6db per doubling of distance. Mines does. I have measured it using a calibrated mic, MIC2200 and REW. The manufacturer lists 114db max at one meter. At four meters that is a loss of 12db. 114-12 = 102db. That is not reference. Many people have rooms with greater listening distances than 13'. Also when you measured with your SPL meter, how did you determine the system could hit reference level since reference level is a single speaker hitting 105db at the seats.
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post #143 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by madboynutter View Post

Hi Craig,
It was inevitable that by writing a brutally honest opinion I would offend the owners of the brands that I gave low scores to. As such, it is clear that I have upset you and you'd like to pick a fight with me, but that is not going to happen. smile.gif
Dude, I don't want to fight with you... I want to completely discredit you. I want to ensure that anyone reading your "review" knows not to believe the nonsense you are spewing... simple as that. smile.gif
Quote:
Let's agree to disagree OK? I respect your opinion. I simply ask that you respect mine.
Sorry, but I can't just agree to disagree. I know from everyday, first-hand experience that your opinion of the Triad Platinum speaker system is 180 degrees out of phase with the truth. I can't permit your disparaging comments to go unchallenged. Your disrespect for the quality of these speakers, as well as your disparaging comments about the manufacturer, (some of these people I know personally), as well as your disparaging comments about a number of other excellent speaker systems, makes you look like a total fool.
Quote:
And with regards to the SPL capability of the Steinway S-Series Audio system I will publish the test results of the system I am installing into the Cinema I am currently building. Let's wait for those and see, OK?
You can harp on about the fact that the S-15's 5 /14" driver isn't capable of outputting the SPL levels necessary to achieve reference levels til the cows come home... it won't change the FACT that I measured it doing just that with an SPL Meter. wink.gif
So I repeat let's wait and see how the test results of the S-Series System I am installing pans out, OK? smile.gif
I couldn't care less about the system you plan to install in your concrete bunker. At this point, it's vaporware. You can quit talking about it until it's something more than that. (BTW, you may not be a "shill" for S-L, but are they cutting you a deal on those speakers so you'll write a "review" for them and publish it on the internet? Hmmmm....)

Moreover, even if you do show some impressive measurements of the "physically-challenged" S-L system, it won't change what I think of you, or your totally inappropriate and incorrect comments about other systems.

Craig
post #144 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by madboynutter View Post

As I have already stated, I have actually measured the SPL outputted by the Steinway S-Series System; and it breezes reference levels. smile.gif
You don't even know what "Reference Level" is, or how to measure it. I showed that a few pages back, which you never responded to. rolleyes.gif
post #145 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by madboynutter View Post

Don't try and imply that there is something sinister with regards to my "personal info" or "identity" because if you have it you know that there isn't. rolleyes.gif

Perhaps not truly sinister but in your case it's a bit like Rupert Murdoch meets the Kardashians. biggrin.gif

Chris
post #146 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

And you want us to believe that the Steinway Lyngdorf speaker has the potential for "limitless output"... more-so than any of the other speakers you "reviewed"???

Steinway uses new "Boson" speaker technology to break into heretofore unattainable areas of physics.
post #147 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

You don't even know what "Reference Level" is, or how to measure it. I showed that a few pages back, which you never responded to. rolleyes.gif

That is pretty clear, a sum of 115 dB doesn't mean reference (maybe the sub alone was playing). The denial of basic physics supports this as well.
post #148 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Dude, I don't want to fight with you... I want to completely discredit you.

lol, he hardly needs your assistance in this regard!
post #149 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by madboynutter View Post

Sorry, but are you seriously saying that 20 years' A/V experience, including designing and building many audio systems, is insufficient knowledge or expertise to post opinion reviews of audio systems? rolleyes.gif
But you are saying that my 20 years' A/V experience, including designing and building many audio systems, is insufficient knowledge or expertise to post opinion reviews of audio systems?
In which case that is like saying a FOOD CRITIC who has 20 years' experience in the food insdustry isn't qualified to review food. QED. wink.gif
Bingo! that you have spent 20yrs doing something does not necessarily make you an expert in the field. You are an expert by how much you know and not how long you have been doing it.
You can spend 20yrs and still not be an expert, and you can spend 5yrs and become an expert - it all depends on what you know, and not how long it took you to know it and/or how long you have known it.
post #150 of 388
Thread Starter 
Hi Everyone,

I sincerely would like to thank everyone for all the considerable amount of feedback posted so far regarding my review; and this includes thanks for both positive and negative feedback, as I value both as much as each other. smile.gif

I have in my report been brutally honest, and I very much appreciate that everyone’s efforts to do the same. I can’t stand brown-noses and don’t want anyone blowing smoke up my arse; although I think it’s clear that there is very little chance of that happening here! wink.gif

Let’s cut through all the BS for a moment, and examine the RELEVANT facts:

1) My review report is solely MY OPINION. I state this fact clearly within the document itself; and I have repeated this fact time and time again within this thread; and I am repeating it again here. smile.gif

2) It is obvious that certain individuals, who are spearheading attacks on me, have their own agendas; e.g. unlike me, they themselves are in fact affiliated with a brand or brands of A/V equipment; or they happen to be the owner of one of the audio systems that I have stated in my opinion has poor audio performance in some regard, etc.. Hence, of course they are going to disagree with my opinion. It is only right, however, that they are honest and up front about their own agendas. wink.gif

3) You do not have to be a SOUND ENGINEER to REVIEW A/V equipment. To revert to someone’s excellent analogy, a FOOD CRITIC does not need to be qualified as a PROFESSIONAL CHEF in order to REVIEW food; the qualification required is sufficient experience working within the industry. To put forward another analogy you don't need to know how to edit films to be able to offer an opinion that a film is badly edited... I myself am NOT a SOUND ENGINEER and have never pretended for an instant that I am; however, I do not consider myself to be merely an A/V ENTHUSIAST either. My A/V background comprises over 20 years’ A/V experience, stemming from a childhood interest (which is not included in those 20 years) through to date wherein I own and run an A/V company whose sole function is to service all the A/V needs of the property development company that I also own and run; this includes personally designing and overseeing the construction of high-end cinemas. Does this mean I am the oracle of all things A/V related; no it doesn't and I have never claimed it does; but it doesn't mean that I am an ignorant "AV Enthusiast" either wink.gif

Despite what some of you clearly believe, I have in fact taken on board and considered everyone’s comments, (which I have to say hasn’t been easy given the fact the vast majority comprise wholly unwarranted petty jibs and childish attacks upon my personage, as well as unfairly prejudging my character and falsely accusing me of all sorts) and I have amended and re-posted my report accordingly:

1) I have changed the title to: “COMPARISON, UNBIASED REVIEW & RANKING OF 12 HIGH-END HOME CINEMA AUDIO BRANDS” smile.gif

I removed the word DIRECT because, whilst I carried out my auditions in such a way that kept factors that might influence audio performance to a minimum as much as was feasibly possible given the circumstances (something which I believe warrants some credit) I concede this is not the ideal, and hence I have removed the word DIRECT, since whilst I am indeed making a comparison, I can see both sides of the argument with regards to how DIRECT it is.

2) I have made the following additions to re-iterate the point that the report is solely MY OPINION and should be taken as such (even though I do already state this fact clearly within the report):

a. I have added the following notice on the front cover: “PLEASE NOTE: THIS REVIEW IS MY OPINION AND ONLY MY OPINION. ACCORDINGLY IT SHOULD ONLY BE TAKEN AS SUCH AND YOU ARE PERFECTLY ENTITLED TO EITHER AGREE OR DISAGREE WITH IT”.

b. I have changed the section title on the final page from “AT A GLANCE” to: “MY OPINION – AT A GLANCE”.

3) I have added more detail on my personal background and my experience to date with regards to A/V. I didn’t do so originally because I don’t especially like to blow my own trumpet and didn’t want to bore everyone with my life history; however, with hindsight this was clearly an oversight, since I do agree it should be made clearer precisely what is my A/V experience such that everyone reading it is crystal clear in that regard when reading it; and also, hopefully this will quash any such implications that I have been seeking to pass myself off as something I am not, which if you read through this entire thread has never in fact been the case, as I have always been up front and honest about everything, including my identity, personal history and A/V background. However, I do agree that it was an oversight not including this pertinent information; this was nothing more than an oversight, which I have now corrected. smile.gif

4) I have reworded the disclaimer to remove the word PROFESSIONAL, since this has clearly irritated some people, and is in fact redundant, because this is not a LAB TESTING REPORT; it is A REVIEW. wink.gif
Edited by madboynutter - 7/10/12 at 8:05am
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