Comparison, Unbiased Review & Ranking of 12 High-End Home Cinema Audio Systems - Page 3

Firstly, you clearly haven't read my report properly. I don't just speak well of Steinway. I clearly state that the best audio system you can buy for £18,000 is MK Sound. I also clearly indicate that the best horn-type audio system is PRO Audio Technology, and the best conventional-type audio system with regards to audio peformance is Wisdom Audio. Furthermore,I clearly state that PRO Audio Technology, which are 'Horns' do NOT suffer from the 'honkiness' that typically plagues horn-type speakers, which basically means that your statement that I "extrapolated from that any possible shortcomings that could be used against them (all horns are honky!)" is wholly incorrect.

Furthermore, you have gone on to falsely accuse me of "misrepresent yourself as an impartial seeker of audio perfection in doing so, and its especially wrong to trash a bunch of other products which you have never heard in the process" when I AM an impartial seeker of audio perfection, regarding which I believe I have now imparted sufficent information within this thread to demonstrate this, and I HAVE auditioned these audio systems.

To audition all these audio systems is very easy and you don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure out how... for example, go pay a visit to Genesis Technologies demonstration centre in Bracknell, England and you can audition the PRO Audio Technology and Wisdom Audio systems (ask to speak to Neil Davidson); go visit Artcoustic UK in Chelmsford Essex and you can audition their home cinema system (ask to speak to Paul Cummin); go visit Gecko's demo rooms in Newbury, Berkshire, and you can audition the Steinway Lyngdorf, MK Sound and James Loudspeaker systems (ask to speak to Rob Sinden)... and so on...

Furthermore, when you've been into AV for over 20 years you tend to develop relationships with AV equipment suppliers wherein they are happy to let you demo equipment. I happen to have the KEF speakers still sitting in my lounge, since they were the last that I auditioned. I will happily have someone take a photo of me standing next to them tomorrow and post it here if you like. Would you like me to do that for you Mr Doubting Thomas?

Next time I suggest you get your facts straight before falsely accusing a complete stranger of doing something he hasn't done and unjustly criticising him in the insulting manner that you have.

You appear to be incapable of reading properly. I have NEVER stated that Audyssey will work better in 'my system' with the speakers placed as they are.

I believe you are now being deliberately obtuse. I suggest you re-read my previous posts, wherein I have already answered this. I am not going to repeat the same information. Furthermore, you are going waaaayyyy off topic


Please kindly confirm which other brand operates the same way as Steinway Lyngdorf.

JBL's Everest sounds bright and it's harsh when played at reference levels. Harshness = Ear Fatigue. QED.

And it costs £1/4 Million

You haven't bothered to read my report properly... it you had you would have noted that with regards to my review of the PRO Audio Technology audio system, which comprises horn-type speakers, I state the following:

"It’s horns Jim, but not as we know it… PRO Audio Technology’s flagship home cinema audio range seemingly offers all of the benefits associated with horn-type speakers, including high speaker sensitivity, excellent clarity and good dynamics, but without the usual negatives, such as ‘honky’ coloured and inaccurate sound, and harshness. In fact, somewhat uniquely, I actually completely forgot that I was listening to horn-type speakers. PRO Audio Technology have achieved audio excellence using horn-type speakers, and eliminated the acoustic flaws that typically plague horn-type speakers, where even the most expensive home cinema audio systems, such as JBL Synthesis, have failed. This achievement in itself is nothing short of miraculous."

So please explain, how exactly is this dismising all horn loaded tweeters? Or writing off horn-loaded speakers right away? Oh that's right, it isn't.

If you go back and read my posts properly you will note that I state that my brother invented an audio technology practically identical to Audyssey DSX, over 20 years ago, which he called "Panoramic Audio"

Panoramic Audio entailed unusual speaker placement in exactly the same way as Audyssey DSX entails unusual speaker placement.

You criticise me by stating Panoramic Audio's unusual speaker placement is wrong and hurl insults at me about it...

...in which case you should go and do the same to Chris at Audyssey. Well go on then, send him an email to Chris at Audyssey telling him his speaker placement is wrong and hurl insults at him!

Actually, I haven't participated in any AV forums to date because of all the politics, petty insults and jibes, and general childish behaviour. Because it's the Internet it is impossible to maintain an intellectual discussion.

So far, everyone is doing a spectacular job of proving I was absolutely right to avoid these forums like the plague, so don't expect me to be around for too long

You have failed to read properly my definition of "volume capability" and have incorrectly concluded that woofer size or power handling is singularly responsible for a system's volume capability.

Consider this, if an audio system sound's HARSH when played at reference levels, that means by definition its audio performance is degraded and as such it's volume capability is POOR.

Rule of thumb, if you have to turn the volume down because the audio is grating on your ears then the systems Volume Capability, (i.e. the volume at which you can listen to the system), is POOR. Get it?

The JBL Synthesis Everest system is bright and sounds harsh when played at reference levels, therefore I'd have to turn the volume to below reference levels to be able to listen to the system without onset of ear fatigue; therefore, its Volume Capability is POOR, hence the low score.

The Procella Audio system distorted when I played Dire Straits SACD; hence, again I'd have to turn the volume to below reference levels to be able to listen to the system, this time to prevent distortion from occurring; therefore, its Volume Capability is POOR, hence the low score.

The Steinway S-SERIES System could be played at up to and above reference levels without any degradation in audio quality whatsoever and no ear fatigue whatsoever; therefore, its Volume Capability is PERFECT, hence the maximum score.

Understand?
Edited by madboynutter - 7/6/12 at 7:19pm

Ah, sorry I forgot you only like to insult complete strangers for no reason whatsoever

You have not read my report properly and hence have not understood my defining of Volume Capability.

This is what I state in my report:

"VOLUME CAPABILITY:

This is defined by the capability of the respective audio system to consistently maintain the same quality of audio performance across all volume settings up to, including and beyond Cinema Reference Levels. You may ask “Beyond Cinema Reference Levels? Why on earth would you ever want to listen to audio at above Cinema Reference Levels?” Well the answer to that question is quite simple, namely that it is important to consider the volume threshold at which the audio quality begins to deteriorate, since this will be representative of how much headroom (if any) the particular audio system has when played at Cinema Reference Levels; and if a particular audio system has a decent amount of headroom when played at Cinema Reference Levels then it will tend to perform consistently better and with more stability than an audio system which is maxed out at Cinema Reference Levels."

Therefore, the dimensions of the woofer is not the singular factor, nor even a key factor, which determines a speakers Volume Capability.

An audio system's defined Volume Capability is the volume threshold at which audio performance begins to deteriorate.

Hence, if an audio system sounds harsh when played at reference levels, then the harshness means degradation of audio quality, and means that you would need to reduce the volume below reference levels in order to listen to it without onset of ear fatigue, and hence the volume capability is POOR, hence the low score.

The "l-thingy" (Steinway Lyngdorf S-15) has a 5.25 woofer" and can be played up to and above reference levels without any degradation in audio quality or ear fatigue whatsoever. Hence the perfect score.

Understand?



What did you think of my conclusion that MK Sound is the best home cinema audio system that you can buy for £18,000?

You also have misunderstood my definition of Volume Capability.

And you have also completely failed to take into consideration the fact the audio that is outputted by the Steinway LS Boundary Woofers, which have 12-inch drivers and output audio up to 500Hz.

It is interesting to note the vast SPL that can be outputted and with the cone hardly moving at all. Stick Master & Commander Ship Battle on and you are literally lifted out of your seat.

I have never claimed that my primary profession is in AV. In fact, I have already made very clear that my current business is property development; and prior to that nutritional science.

A/V has been a passion of mine since childhood. Think of it akin to asking someone who has played the piano since aged 7 whether or not they are skilled in playing the piano...

I am not claiming to the the fountain of knowledge with regards to all things A/V related, but I know a lot more than the next guy and I have designed and built countless systems over the years.

Furthermore, I was not aware I was on trial... and hence was not aware that I needed to prove I am a 'professional' regarding audio. I would have thought my history and the report itself speaks for itself.

And to come back to what I have been needing to repeat time and time again, please kindly take it for what it it, namely my opinion; you do not have to agree with it.

It's not like I'm claiming I'm MOSES or anything. Sheez!


How easy for you to criticise my due dilligence exercise and report. Since you are so critical, please kindly submit your report of similar due diligence process wherein you auditioned all these systems in exactly the same room... Oh what's that? You haven't completed it? Well, what about anyone else then? Anyone? Oh that's right NOBODY has to date yet completed such a due diligence comparison. When you HAVE you can criticise. Fair enough?

Do you actually realise the ridiculousness of what you are intimating? The only way to avoid what you bizarrely refer to as "major errors" would be to purchase all 12 audio systems, and then build a house containing 12 identical specially built rooms into which the 12 systems would be installed. And you think that is REASONABLE do you?

So instead, you pooh-pooh my effort wherein I have done the best that can possibly be done with regards to minimising influencing factors such as differing volume levels, source material, listening position etc...



Are you telling me that you can't remember how an audio system sounded that you have previously listened to? I simply can't believe some of this stuff that's being said here!

And ever heard of TAKING NOTES at the time of auditioning?


You need to read the FULL TEXT of that study; which states this:

"virtually all of the SACD and DVD-A recordings sounded better than most CDs— sometimes much better. Had we not “degraded” the sound to CD quality and blind-tested for audible differences, we would have been tempted to ascribe this sonic superiority to the recording processes used to make them."

If you are unable to tell the difference between CD Audio and SACD / DVD-A then I genuinely feel sorry for you.


I wasn't aware that it was! Am I still doing it? I have no idea! Blame my English teacher...


Erm... then I guess my writing style is truly bizarre... or perhaps you are just paranoid and seeing conspiracies where there are none?

You have never actually auditioned a Steinway audio system have you? Because I know what I experienced when I auditioned the Steinway systems; and the room was enormous too.

If you ever happen to pay a visit to the UK I strongly urge you to visit GECKO in Newbury and audition both S-SERIES and MODEL M systems; Rob Sinden will gladly turn the volume ABOVE reference levels for you... as he did for me... and you will eat those words my friend.

Have YOU actually ever listened to a Steinway System? Or are you simply passing comment on something that you've never listened to?

And that's the whole conundrum regarding the S-15 speaker by the way... they are tiny, yet seem to break the laws of physics...