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The "Super-Slim" PS3 (4000 model series) - Page 2

post #31 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by deathindustrial View Post

I would argue that a low end slim is a media box first, game machine second. It's competition would primarily be Apple TV, Google TV, Roku, Boxee, etc. Folks coming from Apple / Google realm are used to buying <$10 apps (which means small file sizes) so the fact that you can't fit multiple large PSN games on it is mostly irrelevant.
Part of it boils down to what sorts of savings we are talking about. If removing the blu-ray drive gets the price down to $150 or lower then that could be pretty compelling no?
Cheers

If Sony did anything you said they would be putting a nail in their coffin. You are basically describing a PSPGo situation. They made that mistake before and you seriously think a plan to not include the player is a good thing? They don't have the money to just chance it and throw it out on the market to see if consumers would like this option. Your now saying that Sony needs to advertise your description of the latest version as a media box vs what they have advertised for the last 6 years including the push this E3 as a gaming system? Plus Sony already makes a media box for $70 so they are already competing against those companies. You whole idea is dead because you are saying Sony basically needs to rewrite what the Playstation brand would stand for all to save cost from a new slim version of a system that is a gaming console first.

In addition why would this attract a Roku or even an Apple TV owner to a more expensive slim of your description. Apple TV is 99 dollars. What is the initial benefit just to get a Slim over what they already have? How will this be a benefit to consumers that are buying SmartTV with these features including web browsers and soon streaming games from the display itself. It goes beyond those media boxes and again consumers want convenience. Consumers are going to choose convenience every time.
Edited by mboojigga - 7/6/12 at 2:04pm
post #32 of 272
Pretty compelling for who? It seems to me like you're suggesting a PS3 revision for a market that doesn't even exist. I don't see people paying $150 for a crippled version of a Playstation 3 just so they can stream Netflix and such from it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mboojigga View Post

If Sony did anything you said they would be putting a nail in their coffin. You are basically describing a PSPGo situation.

And it would all be without a primary benefit like the PSP Go had to offer which was having all your games on the built in internal memory for increased portability.

I see very little to be gained from his suggestion for anyone. All it would do is gut the PS3 experience.
Edited by Leo_Ames - 7/6/12 at 6:15pm
post #33 of 272
Building a low cost PS3 with on board memory and add-it-yourself hard drive makes lots more sense than a PS3 that can only play a small percentage of the games available. If they're gonna get rid of the BD drive they could save time and paint a PS3 logo in their Google tv box and call it done.
post #34 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblow View Post

There's some speculation at NeoGAF's forum that the new unit will include an improved PSEye (better depth perception according to patents). Also, a rumor says the new model's release will coincide with a firmware update that will have (among other things) a better browser.

Well, they need to because their current browser is useless. You can't even watch YouTube in HD for crying out loud.
post #35 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_Ames View Post

The mandatory installations of some of the most popular software on the platform would eart up a huge chunk of those 16 gigs.
It isn't going to happen. A hard drive is a required item for the PS3. They're not going to ever not include one and just provide a few gigs of flash memory in its place.
And the Blu-Ray drive also isn't going anywhere. I don't know why people dream up such things when they're not even practical let alone desirable.

Because Teh Future!

You should wander over to the Xbox nexbox thread. Some of the predictions over there are flat out spec masturbation. Pretty soon it'll start up here too for the PS4.

Everything next gen is pointing to a smaller jump, iteration type consoles. But the PC / Techies don't want to hear it. They think the lessons of this gen are going to fall on death ears and Sony/MS will pump out another $600-700 box, digital content only!
post #36 of 272
I stand by my prediction that Sony will go with an AMD APU for the PS4, lots of power, low cost.
post #37 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by deathindustrial View Post

A driveless lower priced PS3 is a pretty good alternative to Apple TV, Google TB, Roku or Boxee as it can do the core streaming stuff (Netflix, Hulu, NHL, etc.) as well as games + web browsing at the same or near to same price point. The media management within the PS3 sucks for any large amount of files so the SSD does not need to be massive, just enough to handle a handful of full size games (which average between 2 and 14GB usually) and some smaller PSN downloads.
My PS3 phat that I used in the bedroom died a short while back and I would likely bite on a lower priced, quiet replacement. From the number of folks I see using Netflix in my friend's list I would say I am not the only one using the PS3 as a streaming device.
PSPGo is a different beast which was primarily killed by Sony's utterly botched execution (lack of day and date releases, crap DRM implementation, shoddy storefront, etc.).
Cheers

Then why call it a Playstation? Because it can play some PSN games? Big friggin deal. It'd be a Google TV box aping the PS name. No thanks. They already tried that with their ****** Experia Play phones and see how that turned out for them. Also, the PSPGo was a disaster, no need to repeat that mistake. Just make the system lighter weight, have less parts, and cost less to manufacturer. If they want to redesign the shell, go for it. Outside of that it doesn't make any sense at all to do any of the suggested changes being proposed in this thread.
post #38 of 272
Quote:
Just make the system lighter weight, have less parts, and cost less to manufacturer.

This has been the main reason why they do these revisions on consoles. You don't fragment the system in the process.
post #39 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by mboojigga View Post

Quote:
Just make the system lighter weight, have less parts, and cost less to manufacturer.
This has been the main reason why they do these revisions on consoles. You don't fragment the system in the process.

And Sony won't be. Cheap HDD space is the name of the game of their system BD and gaming is the name of the game for their system. They're probably going tot take out the PSU, use a smaller BD drive and loading mechanism, and combine some more chips. Taking out the PSU as a heat source alone will do wonders for dropping temps further and allowing a more compact case.
post #40 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by deathindustrial View Post

I would argue that a low end slim is a media box first, game machine second. It's competition would primarily be Apple TV, Google TV, Roku, Boxee, etc. Folks coming from Apple / Google realm are used to buying <$10 apps (which means small file sizes) so the fact that you can't fit multiple large PSN games on it is mostly irrelevant.
Part of it boils down to what sorts of savings we are talking about. If removing the blu-ray drive gets the price down to $150 or lower then that could be pretty compelling no?
Cheers

Why do you keep forgetting that the PS3 is a game machine first? Have you not kept up with the financial goings on at Sony? SCE is one of the few dependable moneymaking units of Sony corporate. Why would they risk that kind of profit (which they sorely need right now) taking a chance on a machine that is essentially a media player and will not allow them to make third party royalty profits from outside developers? No BD drive + tiny HDD = no physical media sold, few DLC games sold, and no profits from third party developers.

Also, I feel a wager coming on...

Here are the terms: I believe the super slim will have a BD drive and you do not, one of us will be right, the other will be wrong; this is a straight-up wager, whoever is wrong will exile themselves from AVS for one year (exile meaning that they can lurk but no posting whatsoever).

So, as Guile says, are you man enough to fight with me?
post #41 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by GalvatronType_R View Post

So, as Guile says, are you man enough to fight with me?[/B]

First, I said "possibly" no blu-ray drive.

I think it is an option for a low end PS3 a la the low end Xbox 4GB that is pushed more for casuals. Since there is no subscription fee required for PSN it makes a good option as a streaming box if they can get the price down. The whole PSPGo argument is mostly irrelevant since "streaming only" was not what killed that platform (poor implementation / execution did) and the fact Boxee and Roku are making a go of it suggest that the market is there for such hardware. Pitching the low end PS3 more for those markets means Sony does not lose those customers as they bring Gakai online in their eco-system. PSN is where their future profits lay since TVs are commodity items, 3D is a non-starter and blu-ray is going to be a short lived format.

Second, I thought we were having a conversation. What is this, high school?

Cheers
post #42 of 272
Thread Starter 
There is no chance a PS3 model will ever come out with no BD drive. Absolutely none.

The only possibility of playing PS3 software with no option of a Blu-ray drive on the machine is if/when they add PSN streaming support to Sony HDTVs, handhelds and supported smart phones.
post #43 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by deathindustrial View Post

First, I said "possibly" no blu-ray drive.
I think it is an option for a low end PS3 a la the low end Xbox 4GB that is pushed more for casuals.

And those 4 gigs are ample space for someone to fully enjoy the Xbox 360 which wasn't designed with the mindset of having a high capacity HD as standard.

The Playstation 3 was designed as such and a decent amount of storage space is a necessity with things like huge patches for some games, large mandatory installations, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by deathindustrial View Post

Pitching the low end PS3 more for those markets means Sony does not lose those customers as they bring Gakai online in their eco-system. PSN is where their future profits lay since TVs are commodity items, 3D is a non-starter and blu-ray is going to be a short lived format.

You'e already been told that Sony produces such a thing already and it only cost $70. And PSN being where the bulk of their profits lay is very much ahead in the future well past this console generation. Retail distribution is still #1 and will continue to be the dominant form of distribution for this console throughout its life. It remains to be seen if PSN will even be on par with retail in importance with this upcoming generation let alone being where the bulk of the PS3's profits are to be made for the remainder of this current console's life. And as best as I can tell, 3D is hardly a nonstarter (Although I don't think it's nearly as important to consumers as Sony hoped it would be at this point) and Blu-Ray seems to be growing well and have a future.
Edited by Leo_Ames - 7/7/12 at 2:23pm
post #44 of 272
www.joystiq.com/2012/07/13/rumor-new-ps3-model-photographed/

CECH 4011A/B/C photos have been leaked.

444

475

475

444

447

Looks like the predictions for a flash memory option are right.
Edited by Mikazaru - 7/13/12 at 3:48pm
post #45 of 272
Thread Starter 
Hmmm, I hope the rumor is true. I'll likely get a second PS3 for the house if they offer a 16 GB option and give my launch unit to the kids. That way I can choose my own HDD.
post #46 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblow View Post

Hmmm, I hope the rumor is true. I'll likely get a second PS3 for the house if they offer a 16 GB option and give my launch unit to the kids. That way I can choose my own HDD.

It almost looks like a top loader like the PS2 slim, but it looks like a prototype model right now, that uneven top just looks wierd... It also looks only slightly slimmer than the current model, but it may be condensed down a little...

And I'll do the same most likely with the 16gb model if it comes out.
Edited by PENDRAG0ON - 7/13/12 at 5:22pm
post #47 of 272
Looks better than the current slim, that's for sure. At least it has some contrast to it with the shiny plastic bits. If the 16 gig model is only 200 bucks, I'll probably buy one and put my 500 gig drive in it and use my old 40 gig for media streaming.
post #48 of 272
The 16GB SKU sounds a bit suspicious to me. If they configure it like the previous iterations (user replaceable HDD) and price it below the 250 and 500, what's the point of having larger capacity PS3s? No one will buy those and everyone will buy the 16GB and get a cheap notebook drive for replacement.

If the 16GB exists, it may indicate a hardwired HDD that is not user replaceable (it may ever be an SSD).
post #49 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by GalvatronType_R View Post

The 16GB SKU sounds a bit suspicious to me. If they configure it like the previous iterations (user replaceable HDD) and price it below the 250 and 500, what's the point of having larger capacity PS3s? No one will buy those and everyone will buy the 16GB and get a cheap notebook drive for replacement.
If the 16GB exists, it may indicate a hardwired HDD that is not user replaceable (it may ever be an SSD).

16GB model makes sense. Don't you look at X360 competing models? (If you only play PS3, then you better open your eyes.) Difference is X360 games are not required to have hard drive if you don't include DLCs or certain 2-discs games. Still on PS3, 16GB hard drive - formatted actual space - 10% reserved space - part of the firmware still give you 10GB(?) of free hard drive space that is enough to run any PS3 game(s) today. You may only be able to install 1 to a few games but remember, Sony never say anything about being practical. 16GB hard drive is to compete with 4GB X360 hard driveless model which is something Sony hasn't been able to do.

For hardcore gamers, I would love to buy the 16GB hard drive model if Sony prices it a lot cheaper because I usually upgrade the hard drive anyway. Why waste the small built-in hard drive without any use later?

For marketing, 16GB hard drive will make total sense as long it's priced like 4GB X360 model. Casual gamers will not know any different as long it's cheap. Once they feel the need of larger hard drive, it doesn't matter because Sony already gain an additional customer. That's what Microsoft has been doing all these years and some how PS3 gamers are the ones asleep of the success of the marketing strategy because they only think "big" and ignore the small consumer market who must have super cheap out of the box model.

Don't agree, explain to me how Sony can compete with Microsoft 16GB X360 pricing. Stop using excuses of PS3 comes with more. Remember, you have to win the casual and cheap consumers who only look at the sticker price. (Also look at why Wii U doesn't come with a hard drive.)

As for the model 4000 look, we'll see. If Sony discontinues the 3000 model and keeping 4000 model the only available model (will happen sooner or later), either you switch to other platform or accept the new look. Or, buy pre-owned old models. Your choice if you want to play PS3.
Edited by Vortex3D - 7/13/12 at 8:49pm
post #50 of 272
So long as the HDD is upgradable in the 16gb model while still having the flash memory for the OS and save files, I will buy one, slap a fast hdd in there (either a 7200rpm or SSD if I can get a good deal) and be good to go.
post #51 of 272
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GalvatronType_R View Post

The 16GB SKU sounds a bit suspicious to me. If they configure it like the previous iterations (user replaceable HDD) and price it below the 250 and 500, what's the point of having larger capacity PS3s? No one will buy those and everyone will buy the 16GB and get a cheap notebook drive for replacement.
If the 16GB exists, it may indicate a hardwired HDD that is not user replaceable (it may ever be an SSD).
You greatly over estimate the tech ability of casuals, which make up the bulk of console owners. I mean even on the PC side many people buy pre-made towers instead of building their own (which is pretty easy to do these days).
post #52 of 272
Casuals will be sadly disappointed when they discover that a casual-gamer friendly game like Playstation Move Heroes or Ratchet & Clank All 4 One each have installs in the 5- 6 GB range. And forget about the downloadable version of either one. So what can someone do with only 16GB of memory? Even many PSN titles are hitting the 2 GB range.
post #53 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zookster View Post

Casuals will be sadly disappointed when they discover that a casual-gamer friendly game like Playstation Move Heroes or Ratchet & Clank All 4 One each have installs in the 5- 6 GB range. And forget about the downloadable version of either one. So what can someone do with only 16GB of memory? Even many PSN titles are hitting the 2 GB range.
This may mean that Sony will start selling its own brand of HDDs.
post #54 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zookster View Post

Casuals will be sadly disappointed when they discover that a casual-gamer friendly game like Playstation Move Heroes or Ratchet & Clank All 4 One each have installs in the 5- 6 GB range. And forget about the downloadable version of either one. So what can someone do with only 16GB of memory? Even many PSN titles are hitting the 2 GB range.

A disappointed customer is better than no customer. Though disappointed...they will continue to move items around to make space for what they want to play, and Sony already got their $150-200. I am a perfect example. I dislike Apple, but I got an Ipad for fathers day and LOVE it. I use it every day. I just tried to download Season 2 of the walking dead...but my Ipad can only hold 8 episodes because of capacity. I am disappointed and wish I had more storage, but will continue to buy things from the Ap Store because my kids are hooked and I am not willing to spend $600-800 for more room so I will just shuffle things around, delete watched episodes and move on.
Same thing for the 16gb PS3.
post #55 of 272
VBKp5.jpg

If the image fails to load either refresh or click the direct link below.

http://www.gamefocus.ca/UserFiles/VBKp5.jpg

It shows how much they shrunk the new slim.
post #56 of 272
I will probably sell my old 40gb and pick up the 16gb if this is true. I have an extra 500gb hard drive laying around not getting used.
post #57 of 272
I'm surprised they could even find a manufacturer for a 16 gig HD. I remember when Microsoft had to up the HD size when they stopped being able to source 8 gig ones for the original Xbox (Even though the larger HD's were formatted so only 8 gigs were available to the user).

I imagine that's just about the bare minimum something could get by with on this console. Even my 80 gig PS3 which seemed huge at one time after going several years with my original Xbox 360 with its 20 gig HD is seeming pretty cramped these days.
Edited by Leo_Ames - 7/14/12 at 10:30am
post #58 of 272
The 16gb will be flash memory. Odds are it will be built into the unit and the HDD slot will be empty in that model.
post #59 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

The 16gb will be flash memory. Odds are it will be built into the unit and the HDD slot will be empty in that model.

That is how 4GB X360 model has the 4GB flash storage. When I add a hard drive, the 4GB flash storage is always available as another storage device. I use it to store the 2nd part of the firmware because if I remove the hard drive, the console doesn't complain about missing part of the firmware. Since the firmware doesn't use up all the 4GB flash storage, I can also store my Gamertags there. It would be very useful if 16GB PS3 follows this because the 2nd part of the firmware can also be stored there. Big question is will Sony be willing to do something practical like this (like Microsoft has been doing for years.) Reason I'm saying this is Sony has to provide special storage feature to 16GB model only that none of the other models have. Microsoft did it because they felt the need. We'll find out if Sony is willing to go out of their way to be more practical.
post #60 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zookster View Post

Casuals will be sadly disappointed when they discover that a casual-gamer friendly game like Playstation Move Heroes or Ratchet & Clank All 4 One each have installs in the 5- 6 GB range. And forget about the downloadable version of either one. So what can someone do with only 16GB of memory? Even many PSN titles are hitting the 2 GB range.

You keep missing the points of 16GB model in marketing. How do you think X360 gamers able to use the 4GB X360 model? Something Microsoft isn't telling is part of the 4GB is also used for the firmware which gives you less storage in reality. But there are still a lot of buyers of 4GB. Buyers consist of very casual gamers and hardcore gamers. If you are wondering why hardcore gamers would buy 4GB X360? It's because the hardcore gamers always want to put different size hard drive in it (legal or mod) or reuse large hard drive they already have. For casual gamers, 4GB would work for a short while but if they do become more of a real gamers over the time, they will pick up a hard drive (doesn't matter if that costs more because they already have the console).

With PS3, Sony has no chance to get into this part of the market. 16GB model will be the first time they can have a casual model like 4GB X360 and probably be priced alike, $199 MSRP. I can't say if Sony care or wants hardcore gamers to start buying the 16GB model and install a hard drive of any size themselves. I would because I always replace my PS3 hard drive anyway. Ask any hardcore PS3 gamers out there. As for games install requirements (download version doesn't count here), so far there isn't any that require more than 14GB of hard drive space (14GB is estimated after installed the 2nd part of the firmware because latest firmware size is 192MB). Maybe Sony will add a minimum install size for future games to always work with 16GB model to be safe. Remember both 16GB PS3 or 4GB X360 is only good as a starter console. Any gamer who plays a lot of gamers will have to pick up a hard drive later. Don't be surprised to find very casual gamers finding the 16GB storage enough for years. I have personally met some casual X360 gamers at Gamestop that way. To them, as long they can load up the games directly from the DVD drive and able to save their game progress, they are happy. Why can't casual PS3 gamers do that with 16GB model? As for download games, if the casual gamers do get that "advance", then it's time for them to know the need of a larger hard drive. Does Sony promise you that 16GB model has the built-in storage for downloading all the download games? Obviously not.

Either way, once Sony has the 16GB model, they are able to compete the same group of gamers that Microsoft has for years. Remember this will be a big win for Sony.
Edited by Vortex3D - 7/14/12 at 11:46am
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