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Short subjective review of the Kreisel DXD-12012 DUO (aka MX-5000 Mk3) - Page 2

post #31 of 61
11/7/12 at 12:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Yes it can, all the responses were different from one another. Do you like said sub or do you like a certain response of a room. Basically, you like which ever sub has the response you prefer for that room. Every room will change the response as well. Most subs are eq'd flat outside but once put in a room the response is dominated by the room. Without EQ for each sub making them flat in that room it is a crap shoot. Usually the sub with the most spl wins, and with the better internal EQ.

O.k if they are all eq'd in the room can you differentiate between the subs in blind tests at more moderate levels, not approacing ear splitting spl's at some shoot outs. Sorry for seeming repetitive, just fascinated.
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post #32 of 61
11/7/12 at 1:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jchong View Post

You've got half the story right, but you missed the other half.
I think you are missing the point. I agree that the graph I linked to may not show the Sub at a high output, but if you take into consideration that it is a measurement of just a single DXD12012 showing it going down to 6Hz, you should be able to apply the brain capacity to realise that my dual Subs will go louder and still be flat to at least 10Hz. I never claimed to be running mine at ridiculous volumes and I never claimed to be able to hear 10Hz. When I measure my system at the average volume I usually play it at, it measures relatively flat to 10Hz, regardless of if I can hear it or not. I am not saying everyone will get the same results. I am not saying that the DXD12012's are better than all other Subs out there. I don't really give a rats ass if people want to believe me or not. The whole reason for posting again was that someone else is getting great results from just a single Sub, and it does back up what I originally said. You can all moan and bicker and blow things out of proportion, but that does not make me wrong.
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post #33 of 61
11/7/12 at 2:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

The two are inseparable. If it measures good it will sound good, if it sounds good it will measure good.
The less expensive one, assuming they were capable of equal output. Knowing that requires measuring not just at small signal levels but also at maximum power.
I remember that you argued with me years ago about the depth of bass was improved with cabinet size. Well, Ken Kreisel has gone against everything you said back then. So you can argue all you like, but I would prefer to believe someone with far more experience.
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post #34 of 61
11/7/12 at 2:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjf_uk View Post

I remember that you argued with me years ago about the depth of bass was improved with cabinet size. Well, Ken Kreisel has gone against everything you said back then. So you can argue all you like, but I would prefer to believe someone with far more experience.
We both started in loudspeaker design at about the same time. He did his first dedicated sub in 1969, I did my first in 1971, so he got the jump on me a bit there. Not that it matters. What is pertinent is your experience in the field.
As for the size aspect, google 'Hoffman's Iron Law'. Being a law neither Ken nor myself can break it. Chuck Norris, maybe. rolleyes.gif
Edited by Bill Fitzmaurice - 11/7/12 at 2:19pm
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post #35 of 61
11/7/12 at 3:30pm
Well Ken's advice and knowledge makes sense to me and never contradicts my experience, which is why I will take anything he has to say over your comments/claims every single time.
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post #36 of 61
11/7/12 at 7:04pm
Since I haven't heard much about this new KK sub, I found this review interesting:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/subwoofers/subwoofers-reviews/ken-kreisel-dxd-12012-dual-12-push-pull-subwoofer.html

FWIW, I got an e-mail back from Kreisel Sound on their trade-in program and would encourage anyone interested in the DXD-12012 to give them a call. YMMV
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post #37 of 61
11/8/12 at 1:08am
http://www.avforums.com/reviews/Kreisel-Sound-DXD-12012-Quattro-Stack-Review_395/Review.html

Brilliant review of the 12012 quattro stack here.
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post #38 of 61
11/8/12 at 3:32am
Nevermind, I had posted a link to the review but now I see it already above. My apologies.
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post #39 of 61
11/8/12 at 6:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbfern View Post

http://www.avforums.com/reviews/Kreisel-Sound-DXD-12012-Quattro-Stack-Review_395/Review.html
Brilliant review of the 12012 quattro stack here.

I read that one as well and was going to post it today. Should be interesting to see what the "delivered price" of at least a DUO will be?!
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post #40 of 61
11/8/12 at 7:05am
Looks like mjf_uk has been supported by a 3rd party in his reporting of the sub.
Edited by Glashub - 11/8/12 at 7:21am
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post #41 of 61
11/9/12 at 2:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjf_uk View Post

I think you are missing the point. I agree that the graph I linked to may not show the Sub at a high output, but if you take into consideration that it is a measurement of just a single DXD12012 showing it going down to 6Hz, you should be able to apply the brain capacity to realise that my dual Subs will go louder and still be flat to at least 10Hz.

Yes, I realize your dual subs can go louder. So what is the point you are making here?
Quote:
I never claimed to be running mine at ridiculous volumes and I never claimed to be able to hear 10Hz. When I measure my system at the average volume I usually play it at, it measures relatively flat to 10Hz, regardless of if I can hear it or not. I am not saying everyone will get the same results. I am not saying that the DXD12012's are better than all other Subs out there. I don't really give a rats ass if people want to believe me or not. The whole reason for posting again was that someone else is getting great results from just a single Sub, and it does back up what I originally said. You can all moan and bicker and blow things out of proportion, but that does not make me wrong.

When you first posted that your KK subs could hit 10Hz in room, I believe all people wanted from you was to substantiate the claim. Simple as that. There was never anything about whether the "DXD12012's are better than all other Subs out there". It was just asking for proof, which you refused to provide. Anyway, proof has been shown now by someone else. Hooray for you!

Now the question which some have posed for you above is what is the value of having extension to 10Hz if you don't have the output to make it practical (this is just an "if" since the max output at 10Hz is not known).
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post #42 of 61
11/9/12 at 12:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jchong View Post

Anyway, proof has been shown now by someone else.
Nuff said. wink.gif
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post #43 of 61
11/10/12 at 1:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjf_uk View Post

Well Ken's advice and knowledge makes sense to me and never contradicts my experience, which is why I will take anything he has to say over your comments/claims every single time.

You never change do you as you continue to post in that aggressive way despite having received infractions here as well as on the UK forum. You seem to be of the view that there are only two types of opinions in the world, yours and wrong ones.

I wonder if the members of this forum are aware that you work for the sole UK retailer of Ken Kreisel speakers and thus have a vested interest in hyping them to the rooftops
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post #44 of 61
11/10/12 at 3:59am
I'm not here to take sides but I for one Am hyped by the mere mention of Ken Kreisel making subs and speakers again, his credentials more than speak for themselves, accurate bass reproduction is in high demand and Ken is a Zen Master. There will always be subs that play louder and rattle everything to the point you no longer hear clean sounding bass( which does have a sound as beautiful as mids or highs) and all else gets caught in the collateral damaging distortion.I want clean out put, pitch definition, deep extension and the ability to integrate with an already great sounding pair of mains.Get my music scores in movies right as they can convey emotional impact and make me feel under attack when the Enterprise or a Transformer is ready to release the pain. This is not an easy task to pull off and only few have obtained it. From what I see from the "Secrets" measurements my sub hunt has reached an end !
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post #45 of 61
11/10/12 at 5:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian J View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjf_uk View Post

Well Ken's advice and knowledge makes sense to me and never contradicts my experience, which is why I will take anything he has to say over your comments/claims every single time.

You never change do you as you continue to post in that aggressive way despite having received infractions here as well as on the UK forum. You seem to be of the view that there are only two types of opinions in the world, yours and wrong ones.

I wonder if the members of this forum are aware that you work for the sole UK retailer of Ken Kreisel speakers and thus have a vested interest in hyping them to the rooftops

well now... that certainly adds some perspective...
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post #46 of 61
11/10/12 at 9:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian J View Post

You never change do you as you continue to post in that aggressive way despite having received infractions here as well as on the UK forum. You seem to be of the view that there are only two types of opinions in the world, yours and wrong ones.
I wonder if the members of this forum are aware that you work for the sole UK retailer of Ken Kreisel speakers and thus have a vested interest in hyping them to the rooftops
The comment you quoted was directed at another member, about something you have no knowledge of, so you are in no position to make assumptions - as you always do.

Yes I do now work for them. For the past 4 weeks in fact. Something I have not hidden from anyone, but also something I don't feel is really relevant when I am posting my opinion on the Subwoofers that I own. You think you are clever trying to suggest that I am only saying things because I now sell them, but my excitement and liking of these Subs started when I bought them. If you feel that my opinion is only in an effort to sell them and not worthy because you think it is just a sales pitch, then you are very much mistaken. You tried to accuse me of securing sales for the company many months before I was even offered a position. Now you are just trying to use it as an excuse to discredit me. Well if you feel good about it then go ahead, but your ruse makes no difference to me at all. I just find it very sad more than anything.

You should probably stop trying to make out that other people have something to hide, when you yourself have done, and are doing, far worse than the things you are trying to accuse others of doing. I believe it is currently Seaton that you now have a vested interest in. Something that you obviously will not admit, but not everyone is as stupid as you think.
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post #47 of 61
11/10/12 at 9:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

well now... that certainly adds some perspective...
If you think so, but you are obviously easily led by people who only post part of the whole story. But feel free to believe whatever you like, I honesty don't care.
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post #48 of 61
11/10/12 at 10:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian J View Post

You never change do you as you continue to post in that aggressive way despite having received infractions here as well as on the UK forum. You seem to be of the view that there are only two types of opinions in the world, yours and wrong ones.
I wonder if the members of this forum are aware that you work for the sole UK retailer of Ken Kreisel speakers and thus have a vested interest in hyping them to the rooftops

Russell Williams reviews of the new KK subs goes to show without a doubt that these are by far just more than hype and something far more special, Ken Kreisel is back and with a big BANG!
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post #49 of 61
11/10/12 at 10:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by recruit View Post

Russell Williams reviews of the new KK subs goes to show without a doubt that these are by far just more than hype and something far more special, Ken Kreisel is back and with a big BANG!
Those of us that trusted Ken never doubted. Maybe those who dismissed them purely based on specs will realise these are serious subwoofers.

As for this "vested interests" rubbish - how is it that a UK based company benefits from a predominantly US forum? Nonsense.
Edited by Dav1dF - 11/11/12 at 4:41pm
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post #50 of 61
11/10/12 at 11:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian J View Post

You never change do you as you continue to post in that aggressive way despite having received infractions here as well as on the UK forum. You seem to be of the view that there are only two types of opinions in the world, yours and wrong ones.
I wonder if the members of this forum are aware that you work for the sole UK retailer of Ken Kreisel speakers and thus have a vested interest in hyping them to the rooftops

Pot kettle.
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post #51 of 61
11/10/12 at 11:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by philb37 View Post

Pot kettle.
It's nice to know that there are even people on AVS that see through his BS. biggrin.gif
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post #52 of 61
11/12/12 at 5:44am
Good for you buddy they look beautiful and must sound amazing. Here is my MX-90. Can't seem to let her go and why would I wink.gifu4a9u6yt.jpg
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post #53 of 61
11/12/12 at 7:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjf_uk View Post

It's nice to know that there are even people on AVS that see through his BS. biggrin.gif

Most of us are seeing through someone's agenda....
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post #54 of 61
11/12/12 at 8:05am
HOw much are these subs again?
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post #55 of 61
11/12/12 at 8:46am
Based upon the Ken Kreisel Sound Store website:

DXD-12012 x 1 = $2,995
DXD-12012 x 2 (DUO) = $5,995
DXD-12012 x 4 (QUATTRO) = $11,995
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post #56 of 61
11/30/12 at 1:00pm
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/subwoofer-reviews/63550-ken-kreisel-dxd12012-subwoofer-review.html#axzz2De28HKUd

Some outdoor measurements are coming shortly. I think it has been clearly established across multiple reviews that this unit has superb sound quality.
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post #57 of 61
11/30/12 at 3:46pm
I have possibly days before I can order one, and if I:eek: get zealous maybe two
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post #58 of 61
12/1/12 at 5:23am
KK SUBS

UK prices

8in --- £1150
12in --- £1979

I have the 8in in the UK, as my room is only of the small size. This may not be HT as you know it but I find the sub very musical and for films practical with neighbors.

Brian.
Edited by Atagie - 12/1/12 at 6:45am
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post #59 of 61
12/3/12 at 8:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atagie View Post

KK SUBS
UK prices
8in --- £1150
12in --- £1979

I have the 8in in the UK, as my room is only of the small size. This may not be HT as you know it but I find the sub very musical and for films practical with neighbors.
Brian.

Ada user? Which one? I use Ada as well, check out my video(short)

http://vimeo.com/53050429

My sub system produces under 7% THD at 130 dBs so reference is under 3% THD.
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post #60 of 61
12/5/12 at 6:36pm
I ordered my DXD 12012 today after alot of consideration of other subs (JL f12, SVS sb13 , Rythmik fv15 and the lnfamous Seaton subm) the reviews iced the cake and look forward to setting it up! I just need one good sub to get the job done;)
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