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Projectors at CEDIA Expo 2012 - Page 5

post #121 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

I would love to know this as well. Is there a successor to the 7000 and if so is it being shown?

I don't think we'll see a W7000 follow up this year considering the firmware wasn't really cooked until May 2012 and a number of dealers held back sales until it was fixed.
post #122 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Here is the technical description.
http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/tech_desc.jsp?model_id=MDL102123&feature_id=02
The net effect is a perceived increase in image resolution and contrast. I am a big fan of this tech on my 142" 16:9 at a close seating distance.
Click on this link if you'd like to see it close up.

Thanks
post #123 of 384
Just got back from the AVAD Dealers reception with JVC at the Expo. Took these pics with my iPhone. Sorry that a couple are a little blurry, I was balancing a glass of wine and my iphone at the same time. smile.gif Good news is a new lamp and light engine. The engineer I spoke with says 4000 hours and 15% loss of lumens at 2000 hours. Can't wait to see the reviews. I saw the RS 46 on a Black Diamond in a lighted room, the RS4810 on a Studiotec 130 and the RS 66 on a Stewart with 1.7 gain (not sure what it was). All looked amazing. There are 4 models this year; RS46, RS48, RS56, RS66. All have 3D and top 3 have E-shift. Also had an 84" 4K LCD flat screen on display for maybe spring release that was incredible (no photos).

post #124 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvcdude View Post

The engineer I spoke with says 4000 hours and 15% loss of lumens at 2000 hours.




Pardon me if I dont hold my breath on this claim and please allow me to call BS. I will believe that when/if it happens and not a second before. wink.gif Improved lamp is one thing, but that type of light loss seems totally unrealistic in all due respect.
post #125 of 384
"E-shift2 shifts the pixels of the 1080p D-ILA chips half a pixel horizontally and vertically, creating quad-HD resolution on-screen. I was unimpressed when I reviewed the previous version for S+V, but the demo they had at the show here of the new version did look exceptionally detailed. That could also have been the excellent contrast ratio."

Source:
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/blog/2012/09/06/cedia-expo-2012-new-jvc-projectors
post #126 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by kraine View Post

Yes 160 000 euros eek.gifeek.gif

At least they thought about the everyday consumer. These will sell like hotcakes. tongue.gif
post #127 of 384
Originally Posted by dvcdude

The engineer I spoke with says 4000 hours and 15% loss of lumens at 2000 hours.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Pardon me if I dont hold my breath on this claim and please allow me to call BS. I will believe that when/if it happens and not a second before. wink.gif Improved lamp is one thing, but that type of light loss seems totally unrealistic in all due respect.

I'm with you but dayam....... if true.... eek.gifeek.gifeek.gif

At the very least.....after 2 years of crap lamps you have to marvel at the stones of the engineer to say that. And at a cheaper price. Is corporate really passing this information down to the guys who will get beaten up if it's BS???
post #128 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonF View Post

Originally Posted by dvcdude
The engineer I spoke with says 4000 hours and 15% loss of lumens at 2000 hours.
I'm with you but dayam....... if true.... eek.gifeek.gifeek.gif
At the very least.....after 2 years of crap lamps you have to marvel at the stones of the engineer to say that. And at a cheaper price. Is corporate really passing this information down to the guys who will get beaten up if it's BS???

It would be SO great to be wrong since this would be amazing, but if it sounds too good to be true........

I just cant get excited about such a wild claim until/if it were to actually happen. Last year we had the crosstalk canceler, this year we have some sort of superhero type of bulb.............. tongue.gif I just cant buy it.
post #129 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

It would be SO great to be wrong since this would be amazing, but if it sounds too good to be true........
I just cant get excited about such a wild claim until/if it were to actually happen. Last year we had the crosstalk canceler, this year we have some sort of superhero type of bulb.............. tongue.gif I just cant buy it.

It is the year of super heroes Todd smile.gif
post #130 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

It would be SO great to be wrong since this would be amazing, but if it sounds too good to be true........
I just cant get excited about such a wild claim until/if it were to actually happen. Last year we had the crosstalk canceler, this year we have some sort of superhero type of bulb.............. tongue.gif I just cant buy it.

biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif No kidding....that is so out of left field you have to wonder what the bleep. It would be a huge story. Here's this unheard of lamp performance and oh by the way....to make amends to everyone for past 2 years.....it's less money too.
post #131 of 384
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvcdude View Post

Just got back from the AVAD Dealers reception with JVC at the Expo. Took these pics with my iPhone. Sorry that a couple are a little blurry, I was balancing a glass of wine and my iphone at the same time. smile.gif Good news is a new lamp and light engine. The engineer I spoke with says 4000 hours and 15% loss of lumens at 2000 hours. Can't wait to see the reviews. I saw the RS 46 on a Black Diamond in a lighted room, the RS4810 on a Studiotec 130 and the RS 66 on a Stewart with 1.7 gain (not sure what it was). All looked amazing. There are 4 models this year; RS46, RS48, RS56, RS66. All have 3D and top 3 have E-shift. Also had an 84" 4K LCD flat screen on display for maybe spring release that was incredible (no photos).

Was there any indication that the new JVC projectors can accept a 4K input via HDMI or are they like last year's models where they can, at best, only upscale 1080p inputs?
post #132 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

It is the year of super heroes Todd smile.gif

That is true! While we are dreaming, maybe by the time these prototypes become final they will also have zero ghosting and flicker.................. tongue.gif The problem is all we have seen from JVC as far as 3d goes is prototype quality! eek.gif Sorry, that was harsh, but unfortunately true and with the same 120hz panels, these new models are most likely not going to make any significant strides.
post #133 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonF View Post

biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif No kidding....that is so out of left field you have to wonder what the bleep. It would be a huge story. Here's this unheard of lamp performance and oh by the way....to make amends to everyone for past 2 years.....it's less money too.

biggrin.giftongue.gifbiggrin.gif Exactly. If this type of bulb existed, they sure as hell would not discount it! biggrin.gif
post #134 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

That is true! While we are dreaming, maybe by the time these prototypes become final they will also have zero ghosting and flicker.................. tongue.gif The problem is all we have seen from JVC as far as 3d goes is prototype quality! eek.gif Sorry, that was harsh, but unfortunately true and with the same 120hz panels, these new models are most likely not going to make any significant strides.

Well they have to be a bigger improvement in 2D than the HD 350/RS 10 ? Im really thinking of upgrading or holding off for another year hopefully for 4K but then again who knows what bugs they have.
post #135 of 384
I verified with a JVC rep today the new eshift2 models will NOT accept a native 4k input. The 4k source demos at the Sony booth (and I believe the only native 4k material at the show) looked GREAT! Oh and I spent 10-15 minutes looking at the Darbee with Mike from AVS at the darbee booth and while at first it looked shockingly impressive, it wasn't long before I saw tons of horizontal bleeding artifacts (even as low as 40-30 on the setting). Not worth it, for my use case (text and video). I can see using it at no higher than 40 with video, but not for me.

I'm going to be doing critical viewing of Espon, Mitsu, Sony, for 3D and anyone else with reasonably priced (<5k) projectors. If anyone wants to go around checking them out with me, let me know.
post #136 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

biggrin.giftongue.gifbiggrin.gif Exactly. If this type of bulb existed, they sure as hell would not discount it! biggrin.gif

I saw in the info plaque above one of the JVC projector photos above "NSH". Did a few quick searches but as of yet haven't found what the initials stand for such as ultra high pressure for UHP. Did of course see China mentioned in some of the search results, but also data projectors mentioned in this blurb below. Still calling BS.... biggrin.gif


Lamps for Data Projectors (NSH Lamps)

Created based on the super high-pressure UV lamps, NSH lamps realize compact design, high luminosity, non-flick lighting and high reliability. The lamps support high-performance projectors in a variety use situations, including business, education and the home theatermarket.


The copy reads like China as well
post #137 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dvcdude View Post

Just got back from the AVAD Dealers reception with JVC at the Expo. Took these pics with my iPhone. Sorry that a couple are a little blurry, I was balancing a glass of wine and my iphone at the same time. smile.gif Good news is a new lamp and light engine. The engineer I spoke with says 4000 hours and 15% loss of lumens at 2000 hours. Can't wait to see the reviews. I saw the RS 46 on a Black Diamond in a lighted room, the RS4810 on a Studiotec 130 and the RS 66 on a Stewart with 1.7 gain (not sure what it was). All looked amazing. There are 4 models this year; RS46, RS48, RS56, RS66. All have 3D and top 3 have E-shift. Also had an 84" 4K LCD flat screen on display for maybe spring release that was incredible (no photos).

Was there any indication that the new JVC projectors can accept a 4K input via HDMI or are they like last year's models where they can, at best, only upscale 1080p inputs?

Upscale only.
post #138 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

Well they have to be a bigger improvement in 2D than the HD 350/RS 10 ? Im really thinking of upgrading or holding off for another year hopefully for 4K but then again who knows what bugs they have.

Definitely! These will be awesome 2d movie machines no question, especially with the inclusion of eshift. Even though we are getting just tweaks this year (IMO), these look like awesome movie projectors. My beef is mainly with 3d and the lack of improvement in other areas such as the relatively high lag. I would just like to have a solid 3d and gaming JVC projector as well which is not happening yet. frown.gif
post #139 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gradius2 View Post

"E-shift2 shifts the pixels of the 1080p D-ILA chips half a pixel horizontally and vertically, creating quad-HD resolution on-screen. I was unimpressed when I reviewed the previous version for S+V, but the demo they had at the show here of the new version did look exceptionally detailed. That could also have been the excellent contrast ratio."
Source:
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/blog/2012/09/06/cedia-expo-2012-new-jvc-projectors
I saw the demo today. This was on Stewart Tek 130 and unfortunately the same shimmering crystal pattern is visible that was on the original eShift. The demo was on a rather small screen and I was sitting in the front row.
post #140 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Definitely! These will be awesome 2d movie machines no question, especially with the inclusion of eshift. Even though we are getting just tweaks this year (IMO), these look like awesome movie projectors. My beef is mainly with 3d and the lack of improvement in other areas such as the relatively high lag. I would just like to have a solid 3d and gaming JVC projector as well which is not happening yet. frown.gif

Thanks Todd. Ill have a look into which way I want to go, ive been told about Sony so I will look into that as well.
post #141 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

I saw the demo today. This was on Stewart Tek 130 and unfortunately the same shimmering crystal pattern is visible that was on the original eShift. The demo was on a rather small screen and I was sitting in the front row.

So there is no real change from e-Shift ?

I'm also wondering about HW50.
post #142 of 384
I thought I read a week or so ago somewhere on this forum that there would be big news from Sony. I thought it was noted about the time Kraine was getting ready to attend the show in Germany and someone said the information would not be released until CEDIA. Does anyone else recall seeing this somewhere on the forum? If so, what was the big news?
post #143 of 384
this may sound negative, but is anyone else a little dissapointed at Cedia/IFA this year?

Sony: no VW1000 successor, no VW95 successor, HW50 succeeds HW30, brighter and some sort of sharpness enhancer

JVC: Basically last years projectors with (probably unnoticeable) incrimental black level improvement, RF glasses, and Eshift 2. Same price as old series. Hopefully ghosting improved, but no improvement on lag?

Epson: all the projectors are almost identical to last year

Mits: No SXRD successor, new DLPs are very similar to old series

Panasonic: Almost the same as lest year

Don't get me wrong, there are incremental improvements, but no lasers, no leds, no new 4k, no contrast breakthrough. next year maybe? i think i'll wait until i find a used VW1000:p
post #144 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitetrash66 View Post

this may sound negative, but is anyone else a little dissapointed at Cedia/IFA this year?
Sony: no VW1000 successor, no VW95 successor, HW50 succeeds HW30, brighter and some sort of sharpness enhancer
JVC: Basically last years projectors with (probably unnoticeable) incrimental black level improvement, RF glasses, and Eshift 2. Same price as old series. Hopefully ghosting improved, but no improvement on lag?
Epson: all the projectors are almost identical to last year
Mits: No SXRD successor, new DLPs are very similar to old series
Panasonic: Almost the same as lest year
Don't get me wrong, there are incremental improvements, but no lasers, no leds, no new 4k, no contrast breakthrough. next year maybe? i think i'll wait until i find a used VW1000:p

I dont think you are being negative, I think you are being honest and realistic and I agree with you. Not much to get excited about this year from any of these projectors IMO vs last year.

As far as JVC goes, if there is some improvement in ghosting it certainly wont be significant with the same 120hz. I would be surprised if there was ANY improvement to be honest. frown.gif Like you mention, still no improvement to lag either. I love my 45 for 2d movies, but if I was in the market right now for a single projector solution, I would not buy a JVC since it feels like more of a 1 trick pony (movies). Anyone who wants to also play games (and cares about performance/lag) and enjoy 3d, well the JVC is not great for either (in the case of 3d, it is far from great frown.gif). With the competition having better all around units like Epson which will be at least good with everything, it is getting harder to justify buying a JVC IMO when it has some significant weaknesses in other areas outside of movie watching. Epson heard the complaints about the lag last year and they have made improvements in this area from what we are hearing. People have been complaining about this to JVC for years now and still nothing......... confused.gif I think JVC is resting too comfortably on their native contrast heels and not working on other areas where they are weak vs their competition. Native contrast is awesome no doubt, but it is FAR from the only factor that makes up a great projector.
post #145 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitetrash66 View Post

this may sound negative, but is anyone else a little dissapointed at Cedia/IFA this year?
Sony: no VW1000 successor, no VW95 successor, HW50 succeeds HW30, brighter and some sort of sharpness enhancer
JVC: Basically last years projectors with (probably unnoticeable) incrimental black level improvement, RF glasses, and Eshift 2. Same price as old series. Hopefully ghosting improved, but no improvement on lag?
Epson: all the projectors are almost identical to last year
Mits: No SXRD successor, new DLPs are very similar to old series
Panasonic: Almost the same as lest year
Don't get me wrong, there are incremental improvements, but no lasers, no leds, no new 4k, no contrast breakthrough. next year maybe? i think i'll wait until i find a used VW1000:p

I've been waiting patiently to upgrade. My old Marantz projector. I was hoping for JVC to support 3D better or Sony to support TCP control like JVC. Don't think I can wait another year! I'll wait a little longer to see what reviewers and forums have to say...
post #146 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

I dont think you are being negative, I think you are being honest and realistic and I agree with you. Not much to get excited about this year from any of these projectors IMO vs last year.
As far as JVC goes, if there is some improvement in ghosting it certainly wont be significant with the same 120hz. I would be surprised if there was ANY improvement to be honest. frown.gif Like you mention, still no improvement to lag either. I love my 45 for 2d movies, but if I was in the market right now for a single projector solution, I would not buy a JVC since it feels like more of a 1 trick pony (movies). Anyone who wants to also play games (and cares about performance/lag) and enjoy 3d, well the JVC is not great for either (in the case of 3d, it is far from great frown.gif). With the competition having better all around units like Epson which will be at least good with everything, it is getting harder to justify buying a JVC IMO when it has some significant weaknesses in other areas outside of movie watching. Epson heard the complaints about the lag last year and they have made improvements in this area from what we are hearing. People have been complaining about this to JVC for years now and still nothing......... confused.gif I think JVC is resting too comfortably on their native contrast heels and not working on other areas where they are weak vs their competition. Native contrast is awesome no doubt, but it is FAR from the only factor that makes up a great projector.
some disappointing this year !!
sony 4k pj 2k lamp-life with unaffordable price for most people ( you can buy a new car biggrin.gif )
why not concern about led/laser for long life maintenance with that much of price !!

for the led/laser tech that acer k750 came out 1080p and 1600 lumen . but the price of $2.600 range
really disappointing . i don't know what so special about it ( low end 1080p ) you could say .

wanna go with pj but i think ( price + lamp-life + screen + light control + PQ + lag + RBE + ghosting + ...ect )
drives me all the way to led panels of 65" and let go of pj market
pj market really not handy for HT PJ ( Pico PJ market you can call it until then )
Edited by yyy484 - 9/7/12 at 7:48am
post #147 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

I dont think you are being negative, I think you are being honest and realistic and I agree with you. Not much to get excited about this year from any of these projectors IMO vs last year.
As far as JVC goes, if there is some improvement in ghosting it certainly wont be significant with the same 120hz. I would be surprised if there was ANY improvement to be honest. frown.gif Like you mention, still no improvement to lag either. I love my 45 for 2d movies, but if I was in the market right now for a single projector solution, I would not buy a JVC since it feels like more of a 1 trick pony (movies). Anyone who wants to also play games (and cares about performance/lag) and enjoy 3d, well the JVC is not great for either (in the case of 3d, it is far from great frown.gif). With the competition having better all around units like Epson which will be at least good with everything, it is getting harder to justify buying a JVC IMO when it has some significant weaknesses in other areas outside of movie watching. Epson heard the complaints about the lag last year and they have made improvements in this area from what we are hearing. People have been complaining about this to JVC for years now and still nothing......... confused.gif I think JVC is resting too comfortably on their native contrast heels and not working on other areas where they are weak vs their competition. Native contrast is awesome no doubt, but it is FAR from the only factor that makes up a great projector.

As far as I am concerned the JVC's have only passable contrast ratio, other digital projectors are simply unacceptable and not suitable for movies. The weaknesses that seem to bother some are non issues to me as they dont affect 2D movie performance.

There is only one aspect of performance I want JVC to improve and thats native contrast ratio, it needs to be much, much better. It seems that has not been addressed in the new models so JVC can keep them, I'm not interested.
post #148 of 384
.. if only red with its laser 4k... at ces..
but anyway they need silver screen:mad:

I'm completing my home cinema in November hopefully
and even if I was waiting for a lampless solution
I probably will go with Sony 1000.
Led are not enough bright for my AT 11' screen gain 1.0
and a laser 4k will come not just before 1 year I think.. (Sony 1000 laser 4k?)
post #149 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

I dont think you are being negative, I think you are being honest and realistic and I agree with you. Not much to get excited about this year from any of these projectors IMO vs last year.
As far as JVC goes, if there is some improvement in ghosting it certainly wont be significant with the same 120hz. I would be surprised if there was ANY improvement to be honest. frown.gif Like you mention, still no improvement to lag either. I love my 45 for 2d movies, but if I was in the market right now for a single projector solution, I would not buy a JVC since it feels like more of a 1 trick pony (movies). Anyone who wants to also play games (and cares about performance/lag) and enjoy 3d, well the JVC is not great for either (in the case of 3d, it is far from great frown.gif). With the competition having better all around units like Epson which will be at least good with everything, it is getting harder to justify buying a JVC IMO when it has some significant weaknesses in other areas outside of movie watching. Epson heard the complaints about the lag last year and they have made improvements in this area from what we are hearing. People have been complaining about this to JVC for years now and still nothing......... confused.gif I think JVC is resting too comfortably on their native contrast heels and not working on other areas where they are weak vs their competition. Native contrast is awesome no doubt, but it is FAR from the only factor that makes up a great projector.

I think your assessment is right on the money.
post #150 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

... I think JVC is resting too comfortably on their native contrast heels and not working on other areas where they are weak vs their competition. Native contrast is awesome no doubt, but it is FAR from the only factor that makes up a great projector.

This seems very true. Once other manufacturer's catch up (which is happening very slowly) then JVC will have been dethroned. Quite frankly I'll be glad when that day comes so that I don't feel tied down to one choice (I'm not spending that $2k-$5k extra for a tiny amount of added contrast which comes at a loss of light output).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen View Post

As far as I am concerned the JVC's have only passable contrast ratio, other digital projectors are simply unacceptable and not suitable for movies. The weaknesses that seem to bother some are non issues to me as they dont affect 2D movie performance.
There is only one aspect of performance I want JVC to improve and thats native contrast ratio, it needs to be much, much better. It seems that has not been addressed in the new models so JVC can keep them, I'm not interested.

It seems that we've hit a point with native contrast that manufacturer's either no longer care about improvements or we've hit a technological brick wall and a new technology will be required for improvements in this area.
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