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Projectors at CEDIA Expo 2012 - Page 2

post #31 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

it has nice specs, 6x color wheel, but it's a shame it still has the crippled lens shift.

Quoted for truth! Why is a decent lens shift such a rarity for DLP projectors???? confused.gif The BenQ has it, why dont other manufacturers add this? Is it that much of a cost increase to do so? Some other reason?
post #32 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Quoted for truth! Why is a decent lens shift such a rarity for DLP projectors???? confused.gif The BenQ has it, why dont other manufacturers add this? Is it that much of a cost increase to do so? Some other reason?

The Benq has to be mounted between the top and bottom of the image. Most people would not consider that a good lens shift range. A large percentage of projector owners ceiling mount their projectors. Having the lens even with the top of the image, would place the projector so low that you could hit your head on it. The percentage of people that need to be able to mount the projector low for a High Power screen is much lower. By the way, I am a High Power owner.
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post #33 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

The Benq has to be mounted between the top and bottom of the image. Most people would not consider that a good lens shift range. A large percentage of projector owners ceiling mount their projectors. Having the lens even with the top of the image, would place the projector so low that you could hit your head on it. The percentage of people that need to be able to mount the projector low for a High Power screen is much lower. By the way, I am a High Power owner.

Good info Mike. I am speaking more from a High Power owner perspective which I should have made clear. I also own a HP screen and the ONLY 3d DLP projector that will work in my setup from any sort of practical standpoint is the BenQ 7000 while most of the non DLP projectors I could work with. It just seems like DLP projectors are very limited in general as far as placement vs LCD/Lcos.Most LCD/Lcos projectors you could easily do either a ceiling OR shelf mount, but with DLP it seems they are more catered to a ceiling mount.
post #34 of 384
As a traditionalist,. lens shift to me is the range above center measured in screen vertical dimension that one can raise the projector above or lower it below screen center.Some projectors allow significant lens shift but use of such subnstantially degrades thelens' ability to optimally fucus the pixels because the chip image is moved too far from the lens center sweet spot.

Regardless of lens shift, every projector has on optimum offset, with seme having a fixed offser (with obviously no lens shift) and others an offset range of which the optimum offset falls within. Its complex, because the system could be designed say with the optimum offset being atscreen center (thus being at 0 offset) and then lens shift allowing the unit to be raised or lowered to say top and bottom of the viewing surface or somewhat higher or lower. The optimal offset point could be say at top or bottom of the viewing surface and then movement up or down allowed from there but not always the same in each directyion. Then we have the babied HP owners hate. A fixed offset above or below screen top oy a variable offset (*with lens shift) allowing some up or down but not enough for optimum performance with an HP screen.An oxymoron if I ever heard one.
Edited by AV Science Sales 4 - 8/30/12 at 6:13am
post #35 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post


Good info Mike. I am speaking more from a High Power owner perspective which I should have made clear. I also own a HP screen and the ONLY 3d DLP projector that will work in my setup from any sort of practical standpoint is the BenQ 7000 while most of the non DLP projectors I could work with. It just seems like DLP projectors are very limited in general as far as placement vs LCD/Lcos.Most LCD/Lcos projectors you could easily do either a ceiling OR shelf mount, but with DLP it seems they are more catered to a ceiling mount.


I'm in your category and want the pj to be near midpoint of the screen, vertically as well as horizontally.

post #36 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

As a traditionalis,. lens shift to me is the range above center measured in screen vertical dimension, one can raise the projector.Some projectors a;;ow significant lens shift but use of such subnstantially degrades the lenses abilty to optimally fucus the pixels because the chip image is moved too far from the lens center sweet spot.

Thanks Mark. In light of what you just said, I would think it would make more sense to have more projectors that at least had the ability to be mounted within the vertical screen area so you could get closer to lens center when projecting which does not seem to be the case with a lot of DLP units.
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post


I'm in your category and want the pj to be near midpoint of the screen, vertically as well as horizontally.

No doubt! This is crucial for us HP owners.
post #37 of 384
My BQ SP890 at work (identical lens/chassis to the W7000) uses extreme lens shift due to a high ceiling mount and a 120" image on a white wall. This is used strictly for 1920x1080P PC work. The image is crystal clear right down to the pixels in the tool tray in the far, lower right corner of the screen. The W7000 looks equally good with a center screen lens shift, ~ 1 ft above eye level.

Since the BQ can be used in either scenario (ceiling or center of screen), I don't see why the other DLP manufacturers don't allow for the same flexibility (same as the LCOS/SXRD projectors).

The 3D brightness with max gain on the HP is intoxicating, I couldn't give that up now even for better featurers. There has to be another 3D DLP coming out in the future with a full lens shift.
post #38 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by b curry View Post

The information I have:

Mitsubishi HC8000D
  • 330,000:1 contrast ratio
  • Lamp life up to 5000 hours in low mode
  • Universal 3D glasses and Mitsubishi proprietary glasses


edit: some info from a Cedia 2012 advertisement

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/newbay/cedia-vip_2012/index.php?startid=10#/10

HC8000.jpg
Edited by zombie10k - 8/29/12 at 8:33pm
post #39 of 384
Is Epson demonstrating the successor to the 5010?
post #40 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

edit: some info from a Cedia 2012 advertisement
http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/newbay/cedia-vip_2012/index.php?startid=10#/10
HC8000.jpg

Looks like they are both going to be based on the HC7800.
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post #41 of 384
Looking forward to see whats coming out. Im hoping JVC has native 4K.
post #42 of 384
Last I heard with JVC they will be adding more e-shift machines. There 4k machine may not be ready for this year, but is on the road map.

The Only thing I see is that they are still using the same chips from last year. So unless they have some magic going on there 3d will be the same.
post #43 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by space2001 View Post

Last I heard with JVC they will be adding more e-shift machines. There 4k machine may not be ready for this year, but is on the road map.
The Only thing I see is that they are still using the same chips from last year. So unless they have some magic going on there 3d will be the same.

Magic it would have to be. Maybe this year they will have a SUPER crosstalk canceler.........LMAO. Why not? It certainly could not be any more useless than this years crosstalk canceler. rolleyes.giftongue.gif
post #44 of 384
Is there any reason for hope still during this blacked out press period......that the RS55's replacement model would be able to input an actual 4K signal this year? Or did I miss it and we've been over that and it's confirmed not happening?



Sorry did not see similar topic posts above when I was posting. I guess the main thing is there any confirmation one way or the other. Is it for certain with the information JVC put out there already and with the on-line english translations, that they would have at that point in time mentioned real 4K input if it was there?


Not sounding good.
Edited by RonF - 8/30/12 at 11:33am
post #45 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonF View Post

Is there any reason for hope still during this blacked out press period......that the RS55's replacement model would be able to input an actual 4K signal this year? Or did I miss it and we've been over that and it's confirmed not happening?
Sorry did not see similar topic posts above when I was posting. I guess the main thing is there any confirmation one way or the other. Is it for certain with the information JVC put out there already and with the on-line english translations, that they would have at that point in time mentioned real 4K input if it was there?
Not sounding good.

Doesn't look as if there will be any true 4k inputs. But its not official yet. If no 4k input, hopefully the eshift is improved. With all this 4k talk, let's see 4k material!!!
post #46 of 384
Hi,

some informations about upgrade (brightness) for Digital Projection International' projectors with LED :

http://www.cepro.com/article/digital_projection_upgrades_brightness_for_led_projectors/K5
post #47 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun View Post

The 7800 used the DC3 with excellent optics and a clear, clear 2D picture. I bought one and had to return it because it was rough, and not ready to be released. Dim 3D and those terrible glasses.
This are issues which no-doubt will be corrected in the 7900.
So welcome news.
Readers are reminded that professional reviewers were overall terrible in missing many anomalies which owners later caught (and were stuck with).
Proceed with caution!

Who are the pro reviewers in which you refer?
post #48 of 384
Lets take one projector model as an example. The Panasonic 7000
One way is to bookmark projector reviews and keep a running tally of who said what (important) and when.

Here 6 months after release, the most perceptive owners will figure out the real insidious issues. I wrote this on 5/17/2012
I thought it important to highlight the unusual issues which cause can cause ghosting, at least for the Panasonic 7000 LCD projector. This anomalies are now well documented:
1) dynamic iris
2) altitude
3) temperature
4) ceiling mounting
5) lamp brightness
6) sharpness and clarity settings
7) lamp age
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1382091/jvc-rs-45-sony-hw30-benq-w7000-epson-5010-mini-shootout/2640_60#post_22035512

Review Sites
The best is the meticulous German site Cin4Home*
They have already posted an excellent in-depth technical preview of the improvements to the new Panasonic 6000/8000:
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&langpair=de|en&oe=UTF8&prev=/language_tools&rurl=translate.google.com&u=http://www.cine4home.de/tests/projektoren/Panasonic_PTAT6000/AT6000_Test_A.htm&usg=ALkJrhi6lHo_IbXJ1wBw0SoY26fKnV3bzQ

3D is a new technology and it took everyone time to come-up-to-speed and determine what is important. In this past year major issues are 3D ghosting and flicker, 1:1 pixel mapping, lamp issues, and overall reliability issues. Notice that no one is reporting the new models allow for owner firmware upgrades, a feature which EVERY other component allows. For shame!

There is much lower on/off contrast measured for combination 2D/3D projectors, especially for DLP. For home theater, Texas Instruments DLP technology is regressing.

The latest deficiency for LCoS, is the ANSI contrast which seems todegrade inversely proportionally to on/off contrast improvements (at least from one manufacture). Our own retired optical engineer says the culprit is not correcting the light scatter from the wire grid polarizer.
I share fault too, as I incorrectly attributed not being able to see the LCoS pixel elements solely to degraded lens quality, but it may be that with bright scenes, the light scatter increases so the pixels can't be seen.

I expect higher review standards this year as we graduate from the School of Hard Knocks.

*Finnish Dvdplaza (pteittinen) and French (Kraine) were really good too, especially with ghosting and contrast. Zombie10K's work merit special mention too

This is my opinion. The other projectors are left as an assignment for those interested.
Edited by HiFiFun - 8/31/12 at 3:25pm
post #49 of 384
Here is a perfect documentation (after the fact) of poor image quality (noticeable by many) which can be attributable to far less than perfect optical design:
AT6000_Test_A_clip_image021.jpg
Reflections reduce light output and contrast. So much so its embarrassing. Thanks to Cine4home.de for this proof
post #50 of 384
Just received e-mail invite to "D-ILA VIP Suite to see JVC's latest breakthrough in home theater projectors at CEDIA 2012." Dang. Wish I was going. Wonder what "breakthrough" they'll be showing???
post #51 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Ballentine View Post

Just received e-mail invite to "D-ILA VIP Suite to see JVC's latest breakthrough in home theater projectors at CEDIA 2012." Dang. Wish I was going. Wonder what "breakthrough" they'll be showing???

Maybe a flicker canceller to add to the breakthrough crosstalk canceller from last year!










biggrin.gif
post #52 of 384
Funny smile.gif
post #53 of 384
Perfect video cross talk cancellation is easy to achieve. No fancy gadget or circuit is needed. Just shut one of your eyes, I disclaim any responsibilty for the loss of 3D this will cause.
post #54 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Ballentine View Post

Just received e-mail invite to "D-ILA VIP Suite to see JVC's latest breakthrough in home theater projectors at CEDIA 2012." Dang. Wish I was going. Wonder what "breakthrough" they'll be showing???

Im upgrading to a new projector next year so Im very interested to know what the breakthrough is too.
post #55 of 384
Going by the new model numbers.........I don't think there is going to be any breakthrough...just a tiny tweak or two!cool.gif but hope I'm wrong...........few days left.....
post #56 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post

Going by the new model numbers.........I don't think there is going to be any breakthrough...just a tiny tweak or two!cool.gif but hope I'm wrong...........few days left.....

I hope your wrong too Highjinx smile.gif
post #57 of 384
Maybe JVC is adding an auto iris for absolute BLACK (no hand puppets smile.gif) fade-to-blacks! eek.gif
post #58 of 384
Many here would like that too but I think that would go aginst their philosophy of the best blacks in the business without having to use a DI. Thats been their advertising angle for years and their machines deliver the blacks as advertised. But in theory many here argue that a well implemented DI such as Sony's, would result in even better blacks and give JVC a further advantage because their DILA chip has such good blacks compared to a Sony XSRD without switching on their DI.

I look forward to seeing what JVC has this year. I know we will sell a bunch of them.
post #59 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Ballentine View Post

Maybe JVC is adding an auto iris for absolute BLACK (no hand puppets smile.gif) fade-to-blacks! eek.gif

That would be so awesome! I know jvc is proud to have the best blacks without a DI but imagine how the blacks will be with a DI implemented!
post #60 of 384
I would bet 20 to 1 against it happening.
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