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Wake from sleep issue..EDID?

post #1 of 30
7/9/12 at 9:40am
Thread Starter 
I've been plagued with this issue on my custom built HTPC for months and I've about had it and must dig deeper to find a solution. First for the hardware I opted for

My system build (works great)(Photo's included)
-- SilverStone Aluminum/Steel Micro ATX HTPC Computer Case GD05B (Black)
-- Gigabyte AMD GA-A75M-UD2H (rev 1.0) Mother board
-- AMD A8-3850 APU with AMD Radeon 6550 HD Graphics 2.9GHz Socket FM1 100W Quad-Core
-- Kingston Technology HyperX 8 GB (2x4 GB Modules) 1600 MHz DDR3 Dual Channel Kit (PC3 12800)
-- OCZ Agility 2 OCZSSD2-2AGTE60G 2.5" 60GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid State Drive
-- Western Digital Caviar Green 2 TB SATA III Hard Drive - WD20EARX
-- Pioneer Internal 12x Blu-ray Disc/DVD/CD Writer BDR-206DBK
-- Harmony One remote programmed for WMC IR Receiver
-- Antec (Neo HE650)(NeoPower 650) 650 Watt Power Supply
-- IOGEAR Multimedia Keyboard with Laser Trackball
-- Pioneed SC-35 AVR
-- Samsung UN60D8000Y (60" LED)


Running Win7 x64 WMC.

Resume from standby is the issue and seems as the HTPC wakes fine but I end up with a blank screen on the Samsung LED. Sometimes if I put it to sleep and wake it up 2-3 tries in a row it comes alive. A reboot always cures it. After much reading it sounds like an EDID trasmission issue. I also read of this device by Gefen called "HDMI Detective" that stores EDID info and will always pass it to the HTPC so wake up issued are generaly cured. Also did some reading about EDID Overrides...could this fix it? I did have a cure, but not without drawbacks. First we watch some SmartHub content from the Samsung LED built in menu and seems if you turn off the TV's "AnyNet (HDMI-CEC)" function you lose the audio return channel so no sound from SmartHub content but the HTPC will wake fine with this off. What I suspect is happening is the Pioneer AVR senses the audio return channel from the TV and is switching the input over to TV/SAT, which in turn stops sending the EDID to the HTPC because it switched inputs on me....this has been another pain as you must switch the input again after the Harmony One remote turns everything on and assigns inputs the Pioneer switches it at the last second and I believe it's the HDMI-CEC doing so. I wish they had a feature to not auto sense inputs and switch them...just use what I tell it to. Maybe I should just turn all that AnyNet and HDMI-CEC stuff off! I was thinking of doing that and run a seperate digital audio out cable from TV to AVR and that should cure it but not tested the theory yet.

Anyone have any thought on the best cure for this and what is really happening...my evaluation right?
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post #2 of 30
7/9/12 at 9:53am
For me it is just leaving it on 24/7/365. That costs about $5/month in electricty for always ready playback without issues.
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post #3 of 30
7/9/12 at 10:29am

OP,

 

Have you try MCE Standby Tool? http://slicksolutions.eu/

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post #4 of 30
7/9/12 at 10:37am
This HDMI extender from monoprice is reported to improve EDID connectivity per the reviews on monoprice's site and has, in fact, improved them for me.
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post #5 of 30
7/9/12 at 2:48pm
Thread Starter 
Leaving the HTPC on 24/7 is not an option for me.

The MCE standbye Tool does not mention as supported beyond Vista. Seems like a nice tool but keeping EDID info available, if this is even my issue, is not something it seems to address. I'd have to see what other info available on it.

The HDMI Extender. Read the description and reviews posted and I'm a little confused on what this does exactly. I understand it's for long HDMI runs but it's also listed as a repeater...what's it repeating exactly?

I did some experiments again on my setup. I turned off that Samsung Anynet feature, which is basically just HDMI-CEC. I then turned it off on my AVR as well. All this does for me is loose the audio return channel from TV to AVR so if this works I might just opt to add the cable and be done with it. CEC also helps turn off other devices but my Harmony One turns all that off anyway. Well it didn't work and I know it use to work when I experimented with this before. I did note something I thought odd though. The HTPC is powering on before the AVR and I swear it use to be the last thing being powered, not the first as it is now. So as I sat there with a blank screen I put HTPC back to sleep and woke it up again...bam video back. I think why I just got video back was because the AVR was already on and initialized. No sure why the "power on" order got changed but I just reprogrammed my Harmony remote so the HTPC is last and not first. I just tried it and it worked fine. I think with the Harmony One I can even program in a delay to "power on" to give the AVR a chance to be sure it's initialized. The more I think about it this is the best method for me to set this up...if it proves worthy over long term....I don't really need HDMI-CEC anyway as all I lost is audio return via HDMI so I just add a cable for that. The only real issue I had with all that HDMI-CEC enabled is the AVR would auto switch inputs on me as it sensed the arc from TV. The Harmony takes care of everything so no CEC needed for me really.

What a pain in the neck this has all been.

I went through a massive learning curve just getting my VIDEO_TS folders converted to .mkv files and play nice inside of WMC...major headache and time invested. Had some bad video stuttering going and found for whatever reason the defaul Handbrake setting of "Variable frame rate" was not well liked on the HTPC while my desktop pc had no trouble with it at all. Once I swapped that to "Constant frame rate" the stutter was gone...took forever and testing to discover this as the problem. I could go on with the audio troubles but I've babbled enough.
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post #6 of 30
7/9/12 at 2:54pm
If it works in Vista, It works in Win7.

The pauses in the Harmony will definitelly help. You can also set it to have the AVR start on a different input, pause to let the HTPC finish coming awake and then switch to the input that the HTPC is on.

The extender/repeater repeats the EDID codes, I believe (Uses the power of the HDMI® bus to enhance and repeat the signal).
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post #7 of 30
7/9/12 at 3:07pm
I would temporarily remove the AVR from your setup. Turn off the AnyNet and HDMI-CEC and connect the HTPC directly to TV. See if there is any issue without the AVR in the loop. If there is no issue, then connect the digital audio out from TV to AVR (skipping the HDMI input to your AVR). It should work. The less HDMI cables, the better.

If there still is a problem, check the order that you are turning on the HTPC and TV. In my situation, I turn on the TV first, wait a few seconds, then press the wake up button for the HTPC. The AVR comes on last.

If there is still a problem. You should use moninfo to create a custom monitor driver for your HTPC. You can read about it here. I was going to buy the HDMI Detective, but my setup started to work after using moninfo.

If it still doesn't work, I find that crying makes me feel better.

I have an HTPC to a Google TV (Logitech Revue) to a Samsung LCD TV (ANYnet and HDMI-CEC off). I run an optical out from the Revue to my receiver. After spending too many hours on the HDMI handshake problems, everything finally works including sleep. And I never have to change an input on the receiver or TV. When I tried to run the HDMI through my receiver, I had too many handshake problems.

My tears have subsided (for the moment).
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post #8 of 30
7/9/12 at 3:14pm
You may want to take a look here too. (Thanks to jdsmoothie in the Denon forums.)
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post #9 of 30
7/9/12 at 3:18pm
Thread Starter 
Ya I figured I could mess with the Harmony to get that annoying auto input switching BS to not cause an issue with the HTPC coming out of standbye...either by delay/pause or changing some order around. If I got that to all work nicely I'd then not have to add a seperate audio cable out from TV to AVR but not sure that's really all that big a deal to me. In order to watch any SmartHub content you have to hit a programmed activity on the Harmony that I set up and it switches the input over so only difference there will be the HDMI would use arc. If I have a seperate optical out cable I just have to set the AVR to assign theaudio input from "via HDMI" to "optical"....no biggie.

It's been a trip getting this all to work, and the add ons I've dialed in to WMC. Felt I regretted it at first but once most all issues worked out it's real nice having all your movies, photos, music, and TV in one easy location. Now to shrink my years worth of video_ts folders to .mkv's...good grief. :-)
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post #10 of 30
7/9/12 at 3:22pm
dont buy anything, just block pin 19 on the HDMI cable (any end) with a piece of tape

http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/getfile/71953

Pin 19 is the "hot plug detect" pin, it tells the computer when something has turned off/on, which causes wake issues. Blocking the pin makes the computer think its always on and doesnt disconnect anything, so it will always get the same signal rather than waiting for the device to respond.
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post #11 of 30
7/9/12 at 3:23pm
Shrink? God forbid.

Of course with your HTPC you have the whole internet at your disposal not just the sites inside Samsung's walled garden.
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post #12 of 30
7/9/12 at 7:00pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by idividebyzero View Post

dont buy anything, just block pin 19 on the HDMI cable (any end) with a piece of tape
http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/getfile/71953
Pin 19 is the "hot plug detect" pin, it tells the computer when something has turned off/on, which causes wake issues. Blocking the pin makes the computer think its always on and doesnt disconnect anything, so it will always get the same signal rather than waiting for the device to respond.

That tape is an amazing idea but if the HTPC gets zero signal on pin19 then how does it ever think anything is connected? Are you saying it doesn't need to know?

I can't seem to get this all working right...thought I had it but the last few changes I just did to the Harmony remote seems to have messed with it and made it not wake. All I did was make sure the AVR turns on first so that by the time the HTPC turns on it should be ready and seen. I then tried adding a delay and that didn't help either. Even though I have no video I confirmed the HTPC is actually awake because I can access the shared folder from my desktop pc without any problems. So if I put just the HTPC asleep again and leave AVR & TV, then wake HTPC it works just fine. I don't have to have to dealt with putting it back to sleep and waking it for it to work.

Guess I could try this tape thing as it's pretty simple..did this work for people?
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post #13 of 30
7/9/12 at 7:08pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Shrink? God forbid.
Of course with your HTPC you have the whole internet at your disposal not just the sites inside Samsung's walled garden.

ok...so what's up with converting all my video_ts folders to .mkv files? I've now added yet another 2tb drive and simply ripping movie only folders to HD is still giving me 3-4gb movies. In .mkv containers I get the size down to 1gb with good quality using Handbrake. With 1k movies scattered all over this shrink sure could get more use of my available HD space. Is it not a good idea? There are drawbacks I've encoutered but I can live with it. 1.) Not all rooms in house are setup to acces the HTPC so in video_ts folders I could burn a disk real fast...I gave up giving kids original disks years ago!! 2.) Chapter skip doesn't work well with WMC & .mkv files. I do use My Movies 4 which allows me to use external players I configure and VLC works fine with .mkv chapters. This is really not a big issue to me.
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post #14 of 30
7/9/12 at 7:59pm
Thread Starter 
Well got it back to working and guess the order that things are turned on effects it big time...why I have no idea nor why it worked with the order. Since why method of putting the HTPC back to sleep and wake it up again worked this told me that the AVR being already on is making the difference. I had made the power on order as follows based on this finding

AVR
TV
HTPC

It will not wake like that. The Harmony setup had a default setting for power on order...I reverted back to it. It worked...but the order makes no sense as to why it works.


HTPC
TV
AVR

I have no clue why turning the HTPC on before the AVR would make this thing now wake up fine but it does, and I tried three time in a row with success. My chosen order didn't work once in 6 attempts. Anyone have the logic why that second order works? Now if I turn HDMI-CEC on at all this stops working again. Logitech suggests the feature off in all equipment and let the remote handle it...I agree. I just need to run a digital out from TV to AVR and be done with it.
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post #15 of 30
7/10/12 at 4:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken62465 View Post

Leaving the HTPC on 24/7 is not an option for me.
The MCE standbye Tool does not mention as supported beyond Vista. Seems like a nice tool but keeping EDID info available, if this is even my issue, is not something it seems to address. I'd have to see what other info available on it.

I have MCE Standby Tool running on 64-bit Win 7 and confirm that it works. It fixed my problem with the HTPC locking up at a black screen when waking from S3. I don't know if it was EDID related.
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post #16 of 30
7/10/12 at 6:38am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kesawi View Post

I have MCE Standby Tool running on 64-bit Win 7 and confirm that it works. It fixed my problem with the HTPC locking up at a black screen when waking from S3. I don't know if it was EDID related.

I did download it so if my current configuration takes a dump I'll give it a shot but after sleeping all night it woke just fine this morning. Seems to be in the order my Harmony remote wakes them is very important for some reason I can't explain and seems opposite what my earlier findings indicate order should be...it works that's what's important but I'm so damn technical the "why it works" is going to haunt me.
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post #17 of 30
7/10/12 at 9:23am
Quote:
That tape is an amazing idea but if the HTPC gets zero signal on pin19 then how does it ever think anything is connected? Are you saying it doesn't need to know?
Its called hot plug detect, its only purpose is for plugging in and swapping displays while the computer is on, some HDMI cables dont even have that pin because it causes so many problems. It may require a restart for the computer to discover a display is connected, but once it discovers it it will never disconnect that display until shutting down (and then obviously on boot up it will reconnect), removing any need for forcing EDID stuff since it will never drop the initial EDID values on boot up.

You dont have to start things in order (which I can pretty much guarantee will not work all the time, it didnt for me, the computer will sometimes lag when waking and screw up the timing, and you are bound to miss IR signals every now and then). Just block the pin with a piece of tape (any tape, scotch works) and the computer will actually behave better when switching inputs and waking since its not looking for monitors or disconnecting them. You will be able to shut down the TV/AVR or switch inputs at will and not have to worry about the connection breaking, before when I did that WMC would just crash and my audio would stop working until restarting.
Edited by idividebyzero - 7/10/12 at 11:09am
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post #18 of 30
7/10/12 at 9:44am
So after doing this I suppose that you no longer want to hot swap the HDMI cable?

Not that I do that every day but it might be something to keep in mind that if you are swapping cables or otherwise unplugging the HDMI cable for any reason to shut everything down first.
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post #19 of 30
7/10/12 at 10:37am
its connected to the TV, theres nothing else to swap it with. And if you have to unplug it temporarily then it doesnt matter, the computer wont know and will keep running like a display is connected, plugging it back in will get the picture back, thats the whole point of blocking the pin, when a TV shuts off the computer disconnects it from the device list and that causes all sorts of problems if the TV/AVR/Videocard arent communicating properly. What shouldnt work is swapping different monitors without restarting, and I dont know why anyone would want to do that, especially for HTPC, if for some reason you absolutely need to plug in a different monitor then video cards have plenty of other DVI ports to use.
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post #20 of 30
7/10/12 at 10:48am
Okay. Now I understand better. I was thinking that if the pin was covered then you could have problems with short circuits swapping cables or whatever while hot.

So this just doesn't let the sync (AVR or HDTV as the case may be) tell the HTPC that it isn't connected so it tricks the HTPC into thinking that it is always connected. Perfect, simple solution. I was reading the HDMI spec and came to this conclusion after my earlier post..
Quote:
8.5 Hot Plug Detect Signal
An HDMI Sink shall not assert high voltage level on its Hot Plug Detect pin when the E-EDID is
not available for reading. This requirement shall be fulfilled at all times, even if the Sink is
powered-off or in standby. The Hot Plug Detect pin may be asserted only when the +5V Power
line from the Source is detected. This will ensure that the Hot Plug Detect pin is not asserted
before the Third Make of the connector (see Section 0).
A Source may use a high voltage level Hot Plug Detect signal to initiate the reading of E-EDID
data.
A Source shall assume that any voltage within the range specified for High voltage level in Table
4-26 indicates that a Sink is connected and that E-EDID is readable. It does not indicate whether
or not the Sink is powered or whether or not the HDMI input on the Sink is selected or active.
An HDMI Sink shall indicate any change to the contents of the E-EDID by driving a low voltage
level pulse on the Hot Plug Detect pin. This pulse shall be at least 100 msec.

https://engineering.purdue.edu/477grp10/Datasheets/CEC_HDMI_Specification.pdf
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post #21 of 30
7/11/12 at 7:10am
For those who may not have seen it there's another post going discussing this issue.
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post #22 of 30
9/6/12 at 9:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by idividebyzero View Post

dont buy anything, just block pin 19 on the HDMI cable (any end) with a piece of tape
http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/getfile/71953
Pin 19 is the "hot plug detect" pin, it tells the computer when something has turned off/on, which causes wake issues. Blocking the pin makes the computer think its always on and doesnt disconnect anything, so it will always get the same signal rather than waiting for the device to respond.
I see the tape on the outside of the plug doe's this piece of tape extend down inside the plug?
Thanks STB
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post #23 of 30
9/7/12 at 10:23am

Hey, stevethebrain.

 

I also wondered whether or not the tape for HDMI pin 19 extended down inside the HDMI plug. Looking inside the HDMI plug, you can see metal strips that appear to be part of the pin connections. So, I decided to run the tape down inside the HDMI plug. I used a toothpick to apply the tape on the single metal strip directly behind pin 19. I have had this fix in place now a couple of days, and my audio works when the AVR is in active mode using the speakers or when I put the AVR in standby mode with pass through of the audio to the TV and the connected wireless headphones. I can switch back and forth without any disconnect of the audio device.
 

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post #24 of 30
9/8/12 at 1:44am
My Problem is blank TV screen when switching from PC activity to example watch TV then back to PC w/in the amount of time 10 minutes PC is set to sleep PC is on however when I switch back to PC activity I have a blank screen even when PC is on not sleeping yet. even moving the mouse won't wake it up I'm forced to physicalley turn off PC the turn back on to have video.

I also have problems w/ PC turning on from sleep like I have to press PC activity nurmerous times usalley 3-4 times before I get a desktop.
procedure is press PC activity/power on PC/ then status eventualley it will sometimes come on.

Here's the order my Harmony turns on the PC activity
tv/ Samsung PN58C500
AVR/Yamaha RV-X465
Sub/Polk audio DSW pro 1000
PC/ Acer 3910M

BTW I have a separate optical audio cable out of AVR into the TV and still have the no audio problem however I can just start play of another recorded TV show then stop and resume initial recorded TV show.

The tape over pin 19 on the HDMI cable did'nt work. note my tape isn't extended down inside the plug.

Next I'll try turning off the Samsung anynet/CEC.

Hopefully I won't need 3rd party software.


Thanks for any advice on these rediculous sleep issuses. STB
Edited by stevethebrain - 9/8/12 at 2:09am
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post #25 of 30
9/8/12 at 6:45am
I experienced many of the same problems when switching inputs on my tv, and avr. I decided to spend the money and get myself an HDMI Detective. It solves all of the issues in 5 minutes. It's not not cheap and I won't get back the hair I pulled off my head either:eek:
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post #26 of 30
9/8/12 at 8:03am
actualley I can live w/ some of this issuses (I'm sure there are solutions it will take time to find) like no audio on a resume play and pressing PC activity numurous times to revive PC from sleep, however been forced to turn off the PC that's allready on is a major PITA.

I started w/ HTPC about 6 months ago did'nt really have these sleep related issuses untill I started monkeying around w/ screen saver and when the PC sleeps maybe I'll just try to reset the settings back to defualt (not including the one minute screen saver) just when display turns off at 15 minutes of inactivity and when PC goe's to sleep I believe defualt is 30 minutes (is 30 minutes correct?) maybe the current 10 minutes is to agressive.

problems started occuring when I started to excluesively use the Harmony remote control set up as SE for W7MC before issuses I used to use the wireless mouse like when I stop play of recorded TV I would have the screen saver window open and just perview SS.

Thanks STB
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post #27 of 30
9/8/12 at 12:55pm
I don't see why using a different remote would cause these problems. The problems you're describing were some of the problems I had. Check out user experiences with the HDMI Detective and many people, including me, wonder why we didn't just buy it from the start.

I don't work for Gefen, nor am I associated with them in any way. I am just a happy customer.
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post #28 of 30
9/9/12 at 1:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by idividebyzero View Post

dont buy anything, just block pin 19 on the HDMI cable (any end) with a piece of tape
http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/getfile/71953
Pin 19 is the "hot plug detect" pin, it tells the computer when something has turned off/on, which causes wake issues. Blocking the pin makes the computer think its always on and doesnt disconnect anything, so it will always get the same signal rather than waiting for the device to respond.
acording to this link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI

the tape is on pin 1 not 19.

idividebyzero is correct about Pin 19 being the Hot Plug detect (all versions)
Edited by stevethebrain - 9/9/12 at 2:05am
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post #29 of 30
9/10/12 at 6:45am

Hi, stevethebrain.

 

I came back to this thread to post some disappointing news, and then I saw your post about the picture showing which pin to apply tape. So, have you applied masking tape to the pin 19 indicated in the wikipedia article? If so, what was your experience?

 

My disappointing news is that while I did not lose the audio device with the tape applied to the HDMI pin indicated in the previously posted picture, I noticed over the weekend that my AVR was not indicating Dolby Digital or DTS-HD or TrueHD or anything other than LPCM. Apparently, some information on that pin that I blocked told the AVR what audio decoding standard should be used.

 

So, I have removed the tape altogether and am now resolving the issue with a little piece of code called HDMIOn. I remembered reading something about this when I was first trying to resolve this issue. So, a Google search pulled up a post over at superuser.com concerning HDMIOn and how one user has integrated launching HDMIOn code into the start up routine with his Harmony remote. I configured my HTPC and Harmony remote in this manner last night, and it has worked with my equipment. I am seeing the proper audio standard displayed on my AVR. You can find the HDMIOn software over at Travis Hydzik's blog.

 

Good luck!

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post #30 of 30
3/31/13 at 2:31pm
For any of you who were still wondering if the tape on pin 19 trick works, I can confirm it works like a charm! Just put the tape on the rightmost pin on the top row if you're looking at the plug and make sure you run the tape inside the plug, because that is where the plug makes contact with your video card. After this reinsert the plug. You will immediately notice if your tape is positioned correctly, because windows won't detect your display. Reboot your pc, et voila, you can now turn of your receiver or tv and windows won't disable that output device. Great find, no need for a Gefen whatsoever smile.gif
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