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Sony HDR-GW77: waterproof, dustproof, shockproof small HD camcorder - Page 5

post #121 of 637
Thread Starter 
A video that no other camcorder could make.

The camera needs to be:

1. Waterproof.

2. Inconspicuous.

3. Good quality.

Here is a video that documents a storm-based interruption of service on a major East Coast train line at night:





Be sure to select, using the gear icon, 1080p.

It was pouring rain, the camera was wet throughout the video. The lighting conditions were atrocious: hot spots and very dim (does not look it in the video, but it was).

Edited in Sony Vegas Pro.
post #122 of 637
Impressive. I have been getting great results with regards to both video and photos of our grandchildren. I'll be in Cancun in a couple of weeks and should be able to give it a good workout.
post #123 of 637
Quote:
Originally Posted by vadislav22 View Post

Impressive. I have been getting great results with regards to both video and photos of our grandchildren. I'll be in Cancun in a couple of weeks and should be able to give it a good workout.

kids and grandchildren grow too quickly. so take as many video of them as possible. capture their innocence, smiles, laughter and special moments as they grow. so after 30years they can look back the day and see themselves how you saw them. also, have them video you (with the kidproof pocketable sony gw77 camcorder) so after 30years, they can recall how they view their parents or granpa when they where growing up.

also, take video with family member in 95% of video, only 5% without family member in video.

note: i am still saving to buy the sony gw77. everytime mark041 post video of gw77, makes me jealous, cause my sony hdr-xr550 stay home most of the time, and my samsung galaxy s2 phone with video cam even with me all the time, take not so good video.
Edited by spyker1212 - 8/10/12 at 3:08pm
post #124 of 637
Quote:
Originally Posted by spyker1212 View Post

....everytime mark041 post video of gw77, makes me jealous...
Me too.
post #125 of 637
I am a firm believer in taking family video- have about 45 hours taken from 1987 until the mid 2000s. Now the dilemma with the GW77. As I am using a Mac I can edit up to 1080i. I have been saving the video on DVD but then I am not taking full advantage of the camera's HD capabilities. I have been uploading the videos to Youtube in hi def but how long will they be there as things evolve. I don't have a Blue Ray external burner for the Mac but perhaps I should look at getting one. I have an external HD but in what format would I save the videos for future TV viewing? Any opinions?
post #126 of 637
Quote:
Originally Posted by vadislav22 View Post

..... As I am using a Mac I can edit up to 1080i. I have been saving the video on DVD but then I am not taking full advantage of the camera's HD capabilities............ I have an external HD but in what format would I save the videos for future TV viewing? Any opinions?

I'm sorry you're stuck with a Mac. Macs make everything so easy, their owners don't always spend the time figuring out file formats and other techno details! (grin).

You say you are "saving" the files on a DVD. Big difference between having your Apple make DVDs for TV Standard Definition DVD Players and copying your original, untouched files to data DVDs for storage. Most current versions of Panasonic and Sony Blu-Ray players will even play the files on data disks. They do this to support sales of camcorders and HD TVs.

Apple may not like Sony's AVCHD and 1080p formats in their free software, but Adobe does. Adobe Premier Elements 10 runs about $60 and does 1080p. The box includes three versions: Mac, Windows 32 and Windows 7 64. You pick. Download the free 30 day trial and I'll give you the 10 second shortcuts to 1080p60 functionality. (Hint: It's a little hidden because it is one of a hole bunch of presets to cover all sorts of formats, probably including your 1987 stuff.)

Premier Elements even makes a third version of a DVD. It is called an "AVCHD Disk". It puts up to about 30 minutes of HD quality video on an ordinary cheap DVD that plays like a (expensive) Blu-Ray disk in Blu-Ray players.

Always save the original files direct from the camera. Most people will suggest some version of two separate HDDs so that when one fails, you have not lost anything. Work with copies of your files. Premier Elements is a Non Destructive, Non Linear Editor. (NLE) it ONLY works with copies. It never and can't change the originals in any way. In other words, it works by making copies.

For ultimate playback, buy a WD TV Live. Link: Amazon WD TV Live. Ignore that it streams NetFlix, etc. Its strong point is as a media player. Put all your years videos, in what ever format, on any HDD and play them with an organized menu and remote on any TV with plugs on the the back. You can even plug in a thumb drive or the SD card (with cheap generic adapter) directly from the camcorder.

Bill
post #127 of 637
Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

A video that no other camcorder could make.

"And the waterproof GW77V is there to witness all the drama."

Your video is killing me on two counts. You're using it in the rain and the walk through the tunnel toward the end is stable enough to comfortably watch.

Do you notice a significant difference in stabilization between your TM 900 and the GW77?

Bill
post #128 of 637
Thread Starter 
"Do you notice a significant difference in stabilization between your TM 900 and the GW77?"


The TM900 stabilization is rock-solid: I use it for many sports videos, where extended telephoto shots are common. No one who saw them could believe the camera was not on a tripod. At these events other videographers would laugh at me handholding, until they saw the results (one example:https://vimeo.com/38663820). I, however, never tried moving with the camera (usually a non-no).

Since Sony kept claiming you could walk and shoot in 'active' mode I decided to try that with the GW77. It really adds an interesting dimension to candid video when done appropriately, and rarely.

The GW77 is very, very light - it uses the same battery as the Hx9v, which you know is tiny. A small light camera is harder to hold steady than a heavier camcorder, so it is hard to compare. I also tend to hold the GW77 with one hand, while I normally use two for the TM900. That makes a difference. Holding a tiny light-blue camera with one hand is effective in getting people to ignore me.

Speaking of color, many people are reporting that they have lost their (black-only) RX100. They are used to big cameras. Having a bright blue camera helps protect against that.
post #129 of 637
" effective in getting people to ignore me" is a shooting technique that is underused. It is one of the reasons I can frequently get better clips from my HX9V. I took the SDT-750 to a family wedding and the results were not good. Older people seem to especially dislike being shot with a "real" camcorder.

"lost their (black-only) RX100" or stolen?
post #130 of 637
Thread Starter 
At my family events, the younger ones like to wave at the camera - as soon as they think the camera is pointed at them, they wave. Each and every time (until I finally told them to stop). In Asia, they like giving the victory sign.

Those ex-RX100 owners don't know why their camera is gone.
post #131 of 637
Not to steer this off topic too much, but recently I was at Disney World and I noticed that I seemed to be the only one with a camcorder. Everyone else had i-phones and the like taking pictures and short videos. Perhaps this GW77 would fill that gap between what my camcorder could do and the convenience of the i-phone type device.
post #132 of 637
Thread Starter 
That is precisely on topic - a device you can easily carry around wherever you go that gives you really high quality, and, as bonus, it is waterproof and shock proof, so you can take videos anytime and anywhere. It is why I think the GW77 is a real breakthrough device (I bet the next version has wifi built-in).

I do enjoy watching people taking videos holding their phones vertically - tallscreen!

My favorite is someone taking videos with an iPad.
Edited by markr041 - 8/10/12 at 12:42pm
post #133 of 637
So how does the video produced by the GW77 compare to the much more expensive CX760?
post #134 of 637
Thread Starter 
The CX760 provides a lot more add-on features: mic in, Dolby 5.1, and manual controls of video. It also has the new stabilization - on stabilization the CX760 is better.

Now on raw video quality, we have some info from Slashcam.de, which provides reliable and consistent tests. One tells us about sharpness and artifacts, and we can see for ourselves.

First, the test result for the Sony SR11:


camcorder-testergebnisse_testbilder_testbild_iso_kleinSR11.jpg


Next, the CX760:


camcorder-testergebnisse_testbilder_testbild_iso_kleincx760.jpg


And then the GW77:


GW77.jpg

What you can see from this is the SR11 is accomplishing some of its sharpness artificially (electronically): there are artifacts around the numbers (like white shadows), and the ring lines on the right are completely obscured. This means the videos have an unnatural look (only noticeable when you compare). The video is not really sharp.

The CX760 has little or no artifacts and almost completely reproduces the fine ring lines on the right.

And the GW77 is similar.


You will get a BIG step up in video quality when you upgrade, either way. It will be noticeable. Sony sensors have really been improved over time.


Oh, and here is the FX7 test:


FX7.jpg


This is like a history of sensor technological improvement by Sony. But, the GW77 performance is even more impressive, because it is in a small package.


And the RX100, you ask?


The Sony RX100 test:


RX100.jpg


The RX100 is a big step backwards in video, because nobody has yet found a way to cheaply get sharp and no-artifacts video from a big sensor packed with pixels.


You see why I am excited by the GW77.

Of course, there is more to video than resolution and artifacts; like dynamic range, color accuracy, performance in low light. But these two characteristics are very important.
Edited by markr041 - 8/10/12 at 6:57pm
post #135 of 637
Thread Starter 
Amazing feature of the GW77: clean HDMI out signal



The Sony HDR GW77 puts out an uncompressed HDMI signal straight from the sensor, with no icons or anything. The signal continues to go out in record mode as well. Clean as whistle.

Here is video proof:

The first part of the clip shows the output on an HDMI monitor; the next shows both the GW77 and monitor: the LCD on the GW77 has icons. The HDMI-attached monitor screen does not.

You can attach an HD recorder, and record at 250Mbps, not just the 28Mbps the camera does! And of course an external (portable) monitor with focus peaking, zebras, false color; the works.



The video was shot with the Sony Hx9v. Its HDMI out signal is unclean (icons) and, when you go into record mode, HDMI out stops completely. Most DSLRs do not have clean HDMI out signals. Most camcorders do not either (maybe the red record dot
shows up externally). I believe the Panasonic has a clean HDMI out, but you can only make the icons disappear with a button on the remote. Clean HDMI is the default on the GW77.
Edited by markr041 - 8/11/12 at 9:49pm
post #136 of 637
Thanks Mark, that is impressive. I like my SR11 and FX7, but from what you have shown, they are really behind aren't they? From what I have seen from others and their video examples, the GW77 produces a nice video image. I really want to wait and get the CX760, but for almost half as much I can get the CW77 which produces just about as good a picture (video). Do you know how the colors compare between the CW77 and the CX760? How about low light performance? Too bad the CW77 does not have 5.1, but you can't have everything.
post #137 of 637
Quote:
Originally Posted by vadislav22 View Post

As I am using a Mac I can edit up to 1080i.

get a windows system or wait till apple adopt the 1080 60p. with court battle between samsung and apple going on now. it's going to take awhile for mac to read 1080 60p.

the new generation smartphone will have 1080 60p video.


Samsung’s New Exynos Mobile Chip: USB 3.0 and 1080p Video at 60fps
Samsung has released the specs of its new Exynos 5 Dual mobile chip, and it looks set to be an absolute powerhouse. An ARM-based 1.7 GHz mobile CPU, it seems set be a massive leap forward from the Exynos 4 Quad which currently powers the Galaxy S III .

So, what can you expect to see? For starters, the Exynos 5 is home to a quad-core Mali-T604 GPU which can support screen resolutions up to 2560×1600, as well as providing stereoscopic 3D and, oddly enough, DirectX 11 support. That last point could mean that it could be used with Windows 8, but we'll have to wait and see.

Samsung has built in USB 3.0 and SATA III controllers, so your mobile might soon play nice with the ultra high speed connections of your computer, and also claims that it should have enough grunt to decode 1080p video at 60fps in a whole swathe of codecs. We did say it was a powerhouse.

Elsewhere, there's support for the video streaming Wi-FI Display function and a whole bunch of other technical stuff we don't need to worry about too much. Sadly there are no products that have been officially announced as containing the new chip—but rest assured that, when they land, they'll be really quite impressive. [Samsung Report via Android Authority via Verge]

http://gizmodo.com/5933539/samsungs-new-exynos-mobile-chip-usb-30-and-1080p-video-at-60fps
post #138 of 637
Thanks for the replies. I am a senior who was encouraged to switch from PC to Mac by his sons. I have a WDTV unit (not live) but can't seem to find an output format on FCP X that is compatible with the WDTV when I transfer the video to a thumb drive.I have transferred my approx 45 hours of VHS family video to DVD but never have done any editing of it. It is amazing to see the improvement in quality over approximately 25 years and 4 video cameras. If only our old family videos were of the quality produced by the GW77!
Spending the $ on another video editing software doesn't concern me, it is the hours of frustration I will endure to learn about it after finally becoming familiar with FCP X.
post #139 of 637
Quote:
Originally Posted by vadislav22 View Post

Thanks for the replies. I am a senior who was encouraged to switch from PC to Mac by his sons. I have a WDTV unit (not live) but can't seem to find an output format on FCP X that is compatible with the WDTV when I transfer the video to a thumb drive.I have transferred my approx 45 hours of VHS family video to DVD but never have done any editing of it. It is amazing to see the improvement in quality over approximately 25 years and 4 video cameras. If only our old family videos were of the quality produced by the GW77!
Spending the $ on another video editing software doesn't concern me, it is the hours of frustration I will endure to learn about it after finally becoming familiar with FCP X.

back in the 70s. my dad video us with canon 8mm super 8mm and kodak 16mm film camcorders. he also let us use the 8mm amd 16mm camcorders. i recently convert all the film to digital. and bought 8mm and 16mm film projector to do the convertion. (one thing i regret looking at the 8mm films i took, i took too many views(street and building and less family members)

i am sure years from now. your grandkids will just laught at the poor quality of gw77. and have to buy avchd V2 machine to convert to their new avch6d v23.
Edited by spyker1212 - 8/11/12 at 3:43am
post #140 of 637
Yes, my father had an 8mm camera in the late 50s and early 60s and I have transferred those (unprofessionally) to DVD. They are pretty bad.
post #141 of 637
Thread Starter 
Another GW77v video. This one shows control over dof, focus point, zoom control (discretely), walking while shooting (following subject physically), color, focus tracking and audio.

With respect to the latter, in the 2012 Sony line more cameras have control over audio. On the GW77 you can set the audio to 'low' from auto, which essentially allows for dynamic range - no pumping. In this video you hear an essential feature of an urban park - when you are on the periphery there is lots of traffic noise; in the interior it is hushed. This comes across nicely in the video - you get to hear the contrast between loud and soft that is obliterated by auto-level (agc) that is set in most cameras (like the Hx9v and the Rx100 and most Canon DSLRs!).

Content: Preaching, speed chess, flowers, firemen in action, people on wheels, people selling and buying and resting, water, art, food. All before noon.


Some frame grabs:


2012080510053512.jpg

201208050956502.jpg

The video:

https://vimeo.com/47405804
post #142 of 637
Mark

How did you manage to control the DOF ? Is there any manual control with this camera that allows fixing the aperture ? Thanks.
post #143 of 637
Hi Mark

I am new on this forum
I am a french speaking person from Montréal, Province of Québec, so sorry for the mistakes.
I know i do not reply to the post of slimoni, sorry, but I do not find the way to write a new post on this forum
I have GW-77 and I am very satisfied. The only problem is to see in the LCD in full sun.
I saw LCD Hood from Vello on BH Photos site
Do you think the 3 inches will fit and will help?
post #144 of 637
Thread Starter 
The 3" Vello hood seems like a good solution. It appears you do not have to attach anything permanently to the screen, so it does not affect portability. I know that many video pros benefit from using such kinds of hoods when there is no viewfinder.
post #145 of 637
Thread Starter 
Control of dof: physics and a secret

It is correct that the GW77 does not have control over iris (you can manually control exposure). So dof is controlled by making use of three principles of physics:

1. dof is shallower the closer you are to the subject. So you can change the distance to the subject.

2 .The dof is narrower the higher the focal length of the lens (telephoto). So you can use the zoom lens and change focal length.

3. The dof is narrower the larger the aperture.

Now you cannot control the third. But, here is a dirty little secret of most camcorders: internal ND filers are used instead of (or in addition to) an iris. That is, light is reduced not by narrowing an iris but by placing a set of ND filters between the lens and the sensor.

Closing the iris to control light has two effects:

1. It can, when closed down and small, lead to diffraction (lowering resolution). Most pros do not want to shoot at f-stops smaller than f4 or f5.6.

2. It changes dof. Now, while shooting if the light changes and the response is the iris opening or closing the dof would be changing too - and that would look strange in a video clip. So, by using a set of ND filters this does not happen - the dof stays the same but the light is controlled without changing shutter speed.

For our purposes, the use of the internal ND filter means that for the most part the GW77 is effectively shooting almost wide open - and even at the telephoto end the aperture is relatively wide (unlike most cameras, like the Hx9v or RX100). So, narrow dof can easily be accomplished, taking advantage of the top two points.

As you can see in the video above, there are plenty of shots that have narrow dof. A big sensor is not needed to get narrow dof - with internal (or external) ND filters, and a small sensor you can control dof and not suffer from artifacts and low resolution.

And you can see the narrow dof you get from close ups and having an additional external ND filter:

Select 1080p.
Edited by markr041 - 8/13/12 at 2:10pm
post #146 of 637
Mark,

Thanks. Great stuff, as usual.
post #147 of 637
Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

Speaking of color, many people are reporting that they have lost their (black-only) RX100. They are used to big cameras. Having a bright blue camera helps protect against that.

next generation sony gw77 and rx100 will have wifi. so precious video and photo will be live stream and stored in remote location on the spot. so if camcorder or camera get stolen. precious memories will not be lost.

also if took some discriminating video and that someone demand you to hand over the camcorder memory card to destroy the evidence. you can give the memory card but the video evidence already send to remote storage for safe keeping.
post #148 of 637
Thread Starter 
I think you are correct: wifi built-in is inevitable (and of course already in the Hx30v, the successor to the excellent Hx9v).

But I won't be happy unless it streams at 108060p, which is not the case now with existing cameras with wifi.
post #149 of 637
I hate to admit it, but I think I'm sold on the GW-77. Oh... I'd love to have a wifi-enabled one that can send movie clips, frame grabs, and even stills to my home network or maybe the wife's iPad LOL... but who knows when that will happen. I have to nail down some final questions about output because I'm a mac user and I want to not be hobbled by the Sony's output format. I suspect that editing in iMovie is a non-starter, but who knows at this point. I've read through this thread, and picked Mark's brain over the past few days LOL (Thank You Mark) and also watched way too many YouTube and Vimeo videos shot with the Sony GW-77 to not be convinced. Its more than I wanted to spend, but perhaps it'll be like my Mac... it was worth it. Have to figure out if I should buy a memory stick with it, and how big.

No brown-nosing but honestly having a guy like Mark who is willing to share his knowledge and experiences is what makes these forums work. I've been a member for ages, and have helped many in the design and construction of cabinetry for their large home theaters as well as documenting how to care fore, clean, and change bulbs in DLP HD TVs. I figure its all part of what goes around comes around and payback. Again... thank you Mark and everyone else for all the good information here.

Mike
post #150 of 637
Well I have had the GW77 for about a month now and don't regret my purchase. A couple of things which surprise me (as a non professional). When reviewing photos, you can not zoom in on them to examine them in greater detail. Also,you have to have the video set to 4:3 in order to shoot photos in that format.
I am currently editing in FCP X however, as stated above, you cannot edit 1080P with it. As Mark advised, purchasing Adobe Premier Elements 10 should remedy this problem. For the average user (that's me) am I going to notice the difference with 1080i vs 1080p?
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