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Sony HDR-GW77: waterproof, dustproof, shockproof small HD camcorder - Page 6

post #151 of 637
Thread Starter 
I do not think this is true: "Also,you have to have the video set to 4:3 in order to shoot photos in that format."

In photo mode (the button on the top), you can choose whatever format for photos you want, independent of the setting for video, just like any camera (so, 4:3 photos in photo mode and 16:9 videos in video mode). What may be true is if you shoot photos in video mode you have to abide by the video mode format. That is why there are two modes. Check it out.
post #152 of 637
Well I just tried this and you are correct. Photos can be shot in 4:3 format while videos can be taken in 16:9. This after I had a live chat session with Sony who advised that it could not be done. Thanks very much.
post #153 of 637
Thread Starter 
The Sony technology is amazing; the manuals (including the more elaborate on-line versions) are terrible, as is evidently chat-line support.
post #154 of 637
I have done a small video with photos taken by my GW77
Considering the fact that it's a camcorder, not a camera, I am surprise that these photos look so good!
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EGktoBJPPYc
post #155 of 637
Nice work Rouky... I ordered mine yesterday, opted for ground shipping because I'm cheap LOL! So now I'll have to amuse myself and be envious until it arrives and then dig into it.

I'm a mac guy, so I'm already talking to other mac people about what they're using. Fortunately, I have plenty of HDD space connected to the iMac so most likely I'll dump everything I shoot onto the drive(s) at first to see how much of a learning curve is involved in these newer editing programs.

Mike
post #156 of 637
Yesterday I recorded a new video with the GW77's marco mode and I was quite surprised when I watched the video on the big TV. I reckon it's pretty good from a small camera/lens like the GW77.

Let me know what you think:
post #157 of 637
Thread Starter 
Tell us about this video: was it shot through glass in an aquarium, or was the camera submerged?

Also, you say "The original video was recorded in 1080p60, then cut/edited and converted to 1080p30. No post processing."

Converting the video to 108030p is "post-processing", and lowers the quality. You do not need to convert the video to upload to Youtube - Youtube also converts, which means your video was reprocessed twice.

Still looks pretty good.
post #158 of 637
Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

Tell us about this video: was it shot through glass in an aquarium, or was the camera submerged?
Also, you say "The original video was recorded in 1080p60, then cut/edited and converted to 1080p30. No post processing."
Converting the video to 108030p is "post-processing", and lowers the quality. You do not need to convert the video to upload to Youtube - Youtube also converts, which means your video was reprocessed twice.
Still looks pretty good.

It was shot through the glass. My aquarium is not big enough for a tripod. :-)

By post processing I meant changing contrast/saturation/etc., but you're right, it's misleading, because the video was compressed more than once. I will update the description.
post #159 of 637
Thread Starter 
Good. Did you change the scene setting in the camera to "underwater" mode? This corrects for light in water. Of course, the aquarium glass may have a slight tint, so this may not work well and the aquarium light is also involved. But it may be worth seeing how the results are different.
post #160 of 637
I noticed a 2 star review on Amazon on Aug 19th with a fair amount of complaints. For the owners here, are those legitimate complaints? Thanks.
post #161 of 637
Quote:
Originally Posted by KnowledgeSeeker View Post

I noticed a 2 star review on Amazon on Aug 19th with a fair amount of complaints. For the owners here, are those legitimate complaints? Thanks.

I love Amazon... just ordered some stuff today from them. But as far as those reviews go... take them with a grain of salt. Anyone complaining _AFTER_ they bought it that it doesn't have A/V I/Os and whatever... did they look at the specs before buying? Before I ordered mine, I read this thread from post #1 to the end, then I admit to PM Mark multiple times daily to ask dumb questions which he answered quickly and with great insight. I also spent two days looking at every YouTube and Vimeo movie made with the GW-77 and listened to all the video reviews as well. Is it exactly what I want? No. Its more than I wanted to spend, but I was motivated by how well it does with its "limitations" LOL, and I'm sure I will have my smile and teeth-grinding moments. Hell... Life is a compromise. cool.gif

Can't wait for it to show up.


Mike
post #162 of 637
Thread Starter 
The Amazon reviews are funny.

This is my favorite: "This is basically just a rehashed version of the Sony TG-5V (for twice the price)."

Let me enumerate how many ways this is wrong:

1. When The TG-5V came out it was $999; the GW77 is $699.

2. The GW77 has a larger sensor, more megapixels (5MP versus 1.5MP), a better lens, a wider-angle lens (29.8mm versus 43mm at the wide end!), a larger and higher resolution LCD (this is critical), and optical stabilization (the TG 5V only has the inferior digital stabilization). And the best video setting for the TG 5V was 108060i at 17 Mbps as opposed to 108060 at 28Mbps on the GW77. The TG5V also did not take SD cards (only Sony memory sticks), and was not waterproof, shockproof or dustproof. It's only relevance is that it is the same form factor. You also needed a separate docking station/cradle to charge the TG 5V and connect it to a computer or TV. It did have analog video out, but of course you cannot output HD video over analog out, so what is the point?

Somone else complained about the lack of a lens cover. In fact the lens is covered, by scratchproof glass - the lens is never exposed.

The other criticisms are about still pictures in low light. The GW77 is not the camera for you if that is what you want.
post #163 of 637
Quote:
Originally Posted by IronHorse View Post

I love Amazon... just ordered some stuff today from them. But as far as those reviews go... take them with a grain of salt. Anyone complaining _AFTER_ they bought it that it doesn't have A/V I/Os and whatever... did they look at the specs before buying? Before I ordered mine, I read this thread from post #1 to the end, then I admit to PM Mark multiple times daily to ask dumb questions which he answered quickly and with great insight. I also spent two days looking at every YouTube and Vimeo movie made with the GW-77 and listened to all the video reviews as well. Is it exactly what I want? No. Its more than I wanted to spend, but I was motivated by how well it does with its "limitations" LOL, and I'm sure I will have my smile and teeth-grinding moments. Hell... Life is a compromise. cool.gif
Can't wait for it to show up.
Mike

Thanks for the reply, but it sounds like you were looking at the Aug 5th review, which I agree with you on. The Aug 19th review was a little longer and appeared to have more legitimate complaints, so I wanted to check with the owners to see if they are in fact legitimate, or if there is user error or misinformation since the manual is apparently so bad. I understand there will be compromises with whatever I purchase, but I also want to make sure I understand those limitations before purchasing.
post #164 of 637
Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

The Amazon reviews are funny.
This is my favorite: "This is basically just a rehashed version of the Sony TG-5V (for twice the price)."
Let me enumerate how many ways this is wrong:
1. When The TG-5V came out it was $999; the GW77 is $699.
2. The GW77 has a larger sensor, more megapixels (5MP versus 1.5MP), a better lens, a wider-angle lens (29.8mm versus 43mm at the wide end!), a larger and higher resolution LCD (this is critical), and optical stabilization (the TG 5V only has the inferior digital stabilization). And the best video setting for the TG 5V was 108060i at 17 Mbps as opposed to 108060 at 28Mbps on the GW77. The TG5V also did not take SD cards (only Sony memory sticks), and was not waterproof, shockproof or dustproof. It's only relevance is that it is the same form factor. You also needed a separate docking station/cradle to charge the TG 5V and connect it to a computer or TV. It did have analog video out, but of course you cannot output HD video over analog out, so what is the point?
Somone else complained about the lack of a lens cover. In fact the lens is covered, by scratchproof glass - the lens is never exposed.
The other criticisms are about still pictures in low light. The GW77 is not the camera for you if that is what you want.

Thanks for the reply, I agree with you on that particular review, but my question was only regarding the Aug 19th review.
post #165 of 637
Thread Starter 
What exactly about that August 19 review are you concerned about?

If it is this "But ultimately, the reason it is going back is because of a software glitch that causes it to fail to turn on about every fifth try." I can say that I have used this camera for a longer time and shot more videos with it than probably anyone on this planet and never once have I encountered this problem. The camera has turned on every time I have opened the lid. Period.

And the battery lasts for more than 20 minutes, and there is a lens cover, etc.

I have never shot a panorama underwater - it appears that if you do this incorrectly, you have to open and close the lcd. I have never had a problem with the touchscreen not responding.

This is this guy's conclusion: "excellent video even in relatively low light."

That's what the camera is all about. The useability issues he raises in editing on the camera (who would do that?) are the same across all Sony camcorders.
post #166 of 637
Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

What exactly about that August 19 review are you concerned about?
If it is this "But ultimately, the reason it is going back is because of a software glitch that causes it to fail to turn on about every fifth try." I can say that I have used this camera for a longer time and shot more videos with it than probably anyone on this planet and never once have I encountered this problem. The camera has turned on every time I have opened the lid. Period.
And the battery lasts for more than 20 minutes, and there is a lens cover, etc.
I have never shot a panorama underwater - it appears that if you do this incorrectly, you have to open and close the lcd. I have never had a problem with the touchscreen not responding.
This is this guy's conclusion: "excellent video even in relatively low light."
That's what the camera is all about. The useability issues he raises in editing on the camera (who would do that?) are the same across all Sony camcorders.

The one about if you're doing underwater shooting, that if there was a message pop up for any reason, there isn't a way to clear the message since the Touchscreen is disabled. What would be the best workaround to get by this situation?

That "the touchscreen is touchy at best, often requiring several taps before it recognizes the input". You answered that one for your gw77, so thanks for that, I'm curious if others have issues.

That "when you delete a still or video it returns back to the very first one, not where you left off at, so you have to start scrolling all over again." Is that true?

That "This camera is touted as 20 megapixels but that's typical Sony hype. It is 5MP." Is that true?

Thanks.
post #167 of 637
Thread Starter 
"The one about if you're doing underwater shooting, that if there was a message pop up for any reason, there isn't a way to clear the message since the Touchscreen is disabled. What would be the best workaround to get by this situation?"

This message pops up if you do a panaorama (not a regular still or video) and don't do it correctly. There are no other messages. To clear, close and open the LCD - one second. So, not only is this no big deal, but if you do underwater panoramas, it is easy to do it correctly. Btw, this is the only camera in the world that allows you to do panoramas underwater. So if you actually wanted to do those, returning the camera makes no sense (again, close and open, one second). The reviewer admits the panoramas are good.

" That "the touchscreen is touchy at best, often requiring several taps before it recognizes the input". You answered that one for your gw77, so thanks for that, I'm curious if others have issues."

I think also he does not understand how the camera works: suppose you want to touch focus (you tell the camera where to focus by placing your finger on the subject you want). You first tap on the screen to get the relevant icons to show (the icons are not visible by default (that can be changed)). Then you tap on the place you want to focus. If you thought that you just tap on the screen once to focus you would think the screen is unpresponsive since it did not focus on the first tap. Again, if the default is to have the icons always show, then one tap would work.

" That "when you delete a still or video it returns back to the very first one, not where you left off at, so you have to start scrolling all over again." Is that true?"

Don't know or care.

" That "This camera is touted as 20 megapixels but that's typical Sony hype. It is 5MP." Is that true?"

The sensor has 5 megapixels. That is more than you need for HD video. If there were more pixels on the same-sized sensor, the pixels would be so small that they would not perform well in low light. So for video, you do not want to have a lot of pixels, and this is a video camera (check out the number of pixels of pro camcorders; they have even less). Now, for stills what the camera does is to use the latest artificial intelligence technology to increase the resolution of the 5MP stills to achieve the "equivalent" of 20MP.That is what is advertised. Please read this thread; it has lots of info on the cmarea, with videos and stills.

I use the camera to take videos. Its stills in good light are actually pretty good (as that odd reviewer admits). In this thread you can see examples of the stills made by the GW77. You can decide for yourself, but again, this is a video camera. If you want great stills and mediocre video and audio (relatively), get an RX100.

The GW77 menu system and the up-resolution for stills are exactly the same for the whole 2012 Sony camcorder line, including their $1499 camcorder. Not special to the GW77.

These gripes, to the extent they have any validity, are really silly next to the video and audio performance of this pocketable camcorder. It has the best LCD screen, a great lens and the second-best stabilization of all camcorders, and produces video and audio as good as any without worrying about how to carry it, whether it gets wet, or dropping it. Look at (and listen to) the posted videos.
Edited by markr041 - 8/20/12 at 5:45pm
post #168 of 637
Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

"The one about if you're doing underwater shooting, that if there was a message pop up for any reason, there isn't a way to clear the message since the Touchscreen is disabled. What would be the best workaround to get by this situation?"
This message pops up if you do a panaorama (not a regular still or video) and don't do it correctly. There are no other messages. To clear, close and open the LCD - one second. So, not only is this no big deal, but if you do underwater panoramas, it is easy to do it correctly. Btw, this is the only camera in the world that allows you to do panoramas underwater. So if you actually wanted to do those, returning the camera makes no sense (again, close and open, one second). The reviewer admits the panoramas are good.
" That "the touchscreen is touchy at best, often requiring several taps before it recognizes the input". You answered that one for your gw77, so thanks for that, I'm curious if others have issues."
I think also he does not understand how the camera works: suppose you want to touch focus (you tell the camera where to focus by placing your finger on the subject you want). You first tap on the screen to get the relevant icons to show (the icons are not visible by default (that can be changed)). Then you tap on the place you want to focus. If you thought that you just tap on the screen once to focus you would think the screen is unpresponsive since it did not focus on the first tap. Again, if the default is to have the icons always show, then one tap would work.
" That "when you delete a still or video it returns back to the very first one, not where you left off at, so you have to start scrolling all over again." Is that true?"
Don't know or care.
" That "This camera is touted as 20 megapixels but that's typical Sony hype. It is 5MP." Is that true?"
The sensor has 5 megapixels. That is more than you need for HD video. If there were more pixels on the same-sized sensor, the pixels would be so small that they would not perform well in low light. So for video, you do not want to have a lot of pixels, and this is a video camera (check out the number of pixels of pro camcorders; they have even less). Now, for stills what the camera does is to use the latest artificial intelligence technology to increase the resolution of the 5MP stills to achieve the "equivalent" of 20MP.That is what is advertised. Please read this thread; it has lots of info on the cmarea, with videos and stills.
I use the camera to take videos. Its stills in good light are actually pretty good (as that odd reviewer admits). In this thread you can see examples of the stills made by the GW77. You can decide for yourself, but again, this is a video camera. If you want great stills and mediocre video and audio (relatively), get an RX100.
The GW77 menu system and the up-resolution for stills are exactly the same for the whole 2012 Sony camcorder line, including their $1499 camcorder. Not special to the GW77.
These gripes, to the extent they have any validity, are really silly next to the video and audio performance of this pocketable camcorder. It has the best LCD screen, a great lens and the second-best stabilization of all camorcders, and produces video and audio as good as any without worrying about how to carry it, whether it gets wet, or dropping it. Look at (and listen to) the posted videos.

Excellent responses, thats what I was looking for. Thanks.
post #169 of 637
Here are 3 photos taken during night, without a stand, in Newburyport
I have try various settings, do not exactly remember but i think I activated the low lux icon
Not to bad for a camcorder


http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/r585/Rouky2/6bc5e004.jpg

http://s1173.photobucket.com/albums/r585/Rouky2/?action=view&current=827829ac.jpg

http://s1173.photobucket.com/albums/r585/Rouky2/?action=view&current=738ff6f3.jpg
post #170 of 637
Thread Starter 
GW77 Video of Mystic Seaport: Boats, Ships, Songs, Butterflies and Antique Engines - from steam to airplane.

Key features highlighted: sound - from soft harmonica, to solo singing to a 12-cylinder diesel and an airplane engine. Sights: rigging a tall ship, requiring extra telephoto; a boat ride, showing the stabilizer in action; and more.


https://vimeo.com/47913856


The original 108060p file is downloadable.
Edited by markr041 - 8/21/12 at 9:32am
post #171 of 637
You know Mark - you can use a $50 phone to make a video and It would still look good smile.gif
post #172 of 637
Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

GW77 Video of Mystic Seaport: Boats, Ships, Songs, Butterflies and Antique Engines - from steam to airplane.
Key features highlighted: sound - from soft harmonica, to solo singing to a 12-cylinder diesel and an airpalne engine. Sights: rigging a tall ship, requiring extra telephoto; a boat ride, showing the stabilizer in action; and more.
https://vimeo.com/47913856
The original 108060p file is downloadable.
Mark,

You're 'killin' me!

My photography started with a Kodak Brownie and worked through a couple of Nikons, lenses from 20mm to 500mm and a hand built personal 6' x 15' positive pressure darkroom. I had to sell that house and then, one year film cameras became obsolete. I pretty much gave up in anger when I found out that my equipment didn't have enough value to trade for a digital camera. I went through a couple early Canon and Nikon pocket cameras to capture the mandatory family holidays.

Then the bug bit again when I started playing at digital video with my granddaughters when they decided they would rather do that than play Wii. You helped me pick out two cameras that have helped my two favorite people on earth learn new things. My granddaughters are now showing interest in adding photography to the video skills they are developing. So, the Sony RX100 is on the real short list for this year's new toy.

But, you keep posting results from your GW77 and it is messing with my feelings about wanting a new toy. Today I'm in Lewiston, ID waiting for a jet boat departure for a five hour trip up Hell's Canyon. The forecast includes some rain and a few thunderstorms. My wife and I are discussing how to pack her new FZ150 and I'm putting my HX9V in a zip lock.

I think I would come back with better video and photos if I have what you have, but I'm still stuck on the RX100 sensor size. The GW77 would be busy capturing sights and sounds regardless of rough ride, boat spray and thunderstorms! The HX9V might have to stay in my pocket and I certainly would not be pointing a $650 RX100 into the spray off the rapids.

I have scheduled a purchase in about 6 weeks so as to have a new toy to play with and learn on a cruise through the Panama Canal. So, the struggle goes on!

Switching the subject, your "Mystic Seaport" video reminded me of a few things. My dad sold Evenrudes in his hardware store when 10hp was big. He had one on a 12 foot cedar plank boat. That round airplane engine reminded me of when I was a Navy pilot and put about a 1,000 hours into flying Navy airplanes with the Wright R-1820. (Wikipedia0

Most important, your video reminded me that I should adjust my creative thinking a little. I should first think about the audio and then think of the video as wonderful enhancement. The motion in the picture adds to the audio. Not the other way around. The temptation with video is that I think about what I will see on the screen and then I find how little attention I placed on getting the audio right. And, as usual, you keep the panning and zooming to a minimum.

Getting the audio right is timely for me. I have been appointed as the person that will record the memories and thoughts of the family elder during a 100 person reunion next weekend. It will be more important to capture what she is talking about than what she looks like.

Certainly, your video demonstrates the audio capture ability of the GW77.

As before Mark, thanks for the tips and lessons!

Bill
Edited by bsprague - 8/21/12 at 9:17am
post #173 of 637
Where can I find a GW77 to try out? I'm in Ohio. Best Buy does not carry these and a Google "local" search yields nothing. I'm more curious than anything if I'd like the 1 hand approach to video recording.

Costco? Wal-Mart?
post #174 of 637
Thread Starter 
It is surprisingly light, not just small. The lack of stores carrying cameras is a real problem. Is there a mall nearby that has a Sony Store? They carry them for sure (which is where I first tried one) and they let you play with it. The highest-quality camcorder that my closest BestBuy carries costs less than $500! It is almost impossible nowadays to try out higher-end or even medium-level equipment without buying and returning on line.
post #175 of 637
I bought a Canon HG-10 ($1349) at my local Best Buy but they don't carry this Sony model or the RX100. Go figure.
post #176 of 637
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shield View Post

Where can I find a GW77 to try out? I'm in Ohio. Best Buy does not carry these and a Google "local" search yields nothing. I'm more curious than anything if I'd like the 1 hand approach to video recording.
Costco? Wal-Mart?
B&H is certainly a major camera retailer. Part of their strategy is to give you a 30 day guarantee. My guess is that they somehow share the cost of returns with Sony.

If you know you are only going to play with it for a few days, I would consider it unethical to ask them to send you one. On the other hand, if there is a 50% chance you will keep it, it would be ethical to give it a try.

The real world that is coming, or may already be here, is that retail like we've known it is gone. Best Buy is having a tough time because we try things there and go home to shop the internet. Circuit City is history. Best Buy will change or be gone too. A possibility is that Best Buy will carry no inventory. It will be a showroom. If you try it and like it, it will be on your doorstep via UPS the next day.

The government does not help either. In Washington State, where I live, there is an automatic 10% price reduction on anything I buy from B&H. That's because they don't charge me Washington State Sales Tax. B&H does free shipping. So, with a $700 camcorder, Best Buy has to be $70 cheaper for me to spend money in their local store.

The "showroom" may already be internet based. Maybe the future provides shipping of "trial" models to be returned and exchanged for a "new" one. Maybe its cheaper to send you a new one and encourage you to send it back if you don't like it. Sony, can then re-sell it as "refurbished".

Zappos, now owned by Amazon, quietly encourages women (and of course men) to order a batch of shoes for them to 'try on'. The return shipping is free on the ones that aren't cute enough. Guess who is selling a ton of shoes?

So Shield, order one, try it out. Send it back if you don't like it. Keep it if it blows your socks off. That's the way it is.

Bill
post #177 of 637
Hey Bill. Have you been out to shoot anything of Mt. Rainier?

Mike
post #178 of 637
I am in Cancun at present and decided to submerge the camera in a couple of feet of water. I took about 30 seconds of video and then shut it off and came out of the water. A few minutes later I noticed a misty circular patch about 10MM in diameter on the glass lens cover. I tried to wipe it off but it was on the inside. After a couple of minutes it started to receed and disappeared. I submerged it again but this time there was no trace of moisture. It has been about an hour since I last used it and there is no sign of moisture. Any thoughts?
I was fairly distressed thinking the camera would be inoperable for the rest of our vacation.
post #179 of 637
Thread Starter 
I have had this exact same phenomenon once or twice (over many hours): it is just lens condensation, and I find it goes away in a few minutes or less if you turn off the camera, as you found. Usually this occurs when there is an abrupt shift in moisture or temperature.

I had the same thing happen to me with a full-kit underwater housing for a big camcorder - on a boat ride, the lens developed condensation and in that case I had to wait an hour. It is a common phenomenon around water.
Edited by markr041 - 8/22/12 at 2:54pm
post #180 of 637
Quote:
Originally Posted by Railfan View Post

Hey Bill. Have you been out to shoot anything of Mt. Rainier?
Mike
Yes, but more stills than video. Making video of a big mountain that does not move is an interesting challenge. My favorite travel video camera is a Sony HX9V. I discovered it has an HDR Scene selection so I was trying to see what that really does.

I missed my best chance at video when the mountain did move. The HX9V is a little slow at getting started. While on a scenic walk at Sunrise, I heard a jet like roar. I turned around to see a huge avalanche come off just below the peak. I would love to have had video ready, but it will have to be a memory. The camera was too slow.

Bill
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