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Sony HDR-GW77: waterproof, dustproof, shockproof small HD camcorder - Page 14

post #391 of 637
Thread Starter 
More on trains video
Quote:
Originally Posted by Railfan View Post

Sweet. A couple of questions, Mark.

1) Did you do anything special about keeping the model trains in focus?

No, I had no time to invoke focus tracking, so all auto. If I had time, I would have watched the layout, anticipated what was going to happen and then do focus select and tracking. It seems to have been ok in full auto.

2) Same question regarding the real train moving towards you.

Same as above. Normal continuous autofocus seems to do ok for objects moving towards the camera.

3) I noticed flickering light on the pavement in the station, and on the sides of the passenger cars (real train). Do you know the source of this?

The lights are 50Hz frequency in China, and shooting at 1/60th shutter and 60fps sometimes results in flickering under those circumstances.

Good low light performance. Thanks for the video.
Mike(Railfan)

Edited by markr041 - 11/26/12 at 8:17am
post #392 of 637
Thanks Mark. If you get a chance, it would be interesting to see how the spot focus, or tracking focus (or whatever it is called) works in similar situations. I have been asked to video a customers' model railroad (HO scale), with moving trains coming towards the cam and away. A tracking focus would be just what the doctor ordered, if it works well under those circumstances.

Mike (Railfan)
post #393 of 637
Hello Gw77 users, I just purchased a gw77 to try it out and noticed something quite disturbing. In situations with low audio noise the GW77 records what sounds like an old film projector running - it is in all locations (I thought it might be something in my house.) and I've tried with wind reduction on / off and recording levels, normal and low. I'm quite disappointed by this, it is enough to send it back. Anyone else experienced this? This unit doen'st have moving parts in general, so I don't get it.

You can't hear it if there is a fair amound of noises going on.
post #394 of 637
Quote:
Originally Posted by seaberttheseal View Post

Hello Gw77 users, I just purchased a gw77 to try it out and noticed something quite disturbing. In situations with low audio noise the GW77 records what sounds like an old film projector running - it is in all locations (I thought it might be something in my house.) and I've tried with wind reduction on / off and recording levels, normal and low. I'm quite disappointed by this, it is enough to send it back. Anyone else experienced this? This unit doen'st have moving parts in general, so I don't get it.
You can't hear it if there is a fair amound of noises going on.

Go back to post #382 and #386. Bo Barker says it is the autofocus working.
post #395 of 637
Thread Starter 
In "low noise" settings, lock focus. You are hearing the focusing mechanism. In normal situations you will not hear the sound. I recommend always using the "low" audio setting for best auio in all circumstances.

And yes, someone else reported this and discovered: "Auto focus was the culprit. By switching the focus to manual, the sound stopped. Turning the auto-focus on brought the humming/clicking sound back. (verified with my ear)." Just a few posts back.
post #396 of 637
Thanks, this is still pretty disconcerting. One might not want to lock autofocus...
post #397 of 637
Thread Starter 
What circumstances are you shooting in exactly where you hear this? What kind of videos do you want to take? And how does this issue compare with other autofocus cameras?

To take good video with any camera you must use manual modes at times. Auto everything will not work on any camera in all circumstances.
Edited by markr041 - 12/2/12 at 8:02am
post #398 of 637
I'm in my house with my kids running around or I'm outside shooting a landscape scene wanting to hear the surroundings.
post #399 of 637
Thread Starter 
Do you hear it in the video I posted: https://vimeo.com/47831360

Here is another, taken in a garden, where the only sounds are nature. Do you hear a problem? https://vimeo.com/45606199. There is absoultely no mechanical noise that I can hear from the camera, except an occasional click from me (this was my very first GW77 video before I learned how to avoid clicks). You hear birds, and wind and ambience; you do not hear the camera (sometimes you can hear me breathing).

In neither video is focus locked.

How are you listening; a device that is autoleveling audio? I listen with Sennheiser HD650 headphones and a digital amp. Are you using audio set to low on the camera? Am I deaf?
Edited by markr041 - 12/2/12 at 9:11am
post #400 of 637
No, I do not hear them in the posted video. (Both links are the same.) The problem is if there isn't at least a low level of ambient noise.

I listen to videos on my PC with Klipsch 5.1 speakers. My other camcorders HF100, RX100, and Optura 50 didn't have this problem. I will upload the videos to see if you can hear it, it's quite bad.
post #401 of 637
And yes recording level is low.
post #402 of 637
Thread Starter 
I corrected the link (https://vimeo.com/45606199) - to the outdoor, nature video. If you cannot hear mechnical noise in this, where the only sound is nature (and I do not), then I do not get it.

Maybe there is something wrong with your version.
post #403 of 637
I do not hear it in your video. Here is a link to a quick clip I took to see how the camera pans. There is a low noise which is a plane or lawn mower, but you can hear the movie projector sounding noise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIn-VqrGQ8M - Outdoor

http://youtu.be/BvxKipl_zAw - Indoor

If you hold the camcorder on your ear, you can hear what sounds almost like a miniDV tape running.

It the first thing I noticed when I watched an indoor shoot. Shoot something in your house and see if you can hear it.
post #404 of 637
Thread Starter 
I hear it in both of yours - including the outdoors one, not in any of mine, indoors or out. Maybe call Sony tech support and see what they say.
Edited by markr041 - 12/2/12 at 10:12am
post #405 of 637
I just spoke to Sony and escalated the call to a "Product Specialist." They had nothing on the file of this problem and no recall at this time, but he said the MHS-PM5 camera has the same lens configuration and same noise problem. He said he could do warranty fix, but he thought they would just return it as this is an inherent problem with the camera. Case number e56181404.

I agree that you need to understand what the camera is doing and cannot always rely on auto. My HF100 tended to overexpose, and in low light push gain too high, however, I don't think I can live with a camcorder that can't utilize autofocus in a quiet setting.

Unfortunately, I am returning it.
post #406 of 637
Thread Starter 
I think you had a defective product. My GW77 does not have this noise at that level .Period, in any clip under any conditions. Anyone can check this out in the scores of videos I have posted, all of which can be downloaded (they are originals).


This is not t osay, that others may have this problem with a GW77.


I agree the noise you had was not acceptable.


BUT, what that Sony rep said is total and utter hogwash: "he said the MHS-PM5 camera has the same lens configuration and same noise ."

That camera is *fixed* focus. It is not possible for it to have this noise problem; it is also a different sensor and lens and has a rotatable lens mount. It is completely different. The configuration of the GW77 is most like the HDR-CX580 - same lens and sensor and specs.
Edited by markr041 - 12/2/12 at 12:05pm
post #407 of 637
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boe Barker View Post

The sound is faint, but present. If you listen closely, you will here a sound similar to a fan spinning. Not the wind that would be produced, but the sound of a vibration. I did not have the ceiling fan on, nor is this a single occurrence. I've tried both normal and low audio choices.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W9trIx1ZAY
http://youtu.be/y5FI_gZv01w
Side note: Using the auto white balance and exposure, I tend to get this desaturated look. I have had some improvement with switching to manual white balance settings, but the color remains desaturated. Easy fix in fcp, but none the less an extra step.
These where the clips posted in #374. Boe figured it out in #386.

These clips have the same noise. It is a little fainter because Boe is taking video of his kid and there is more "real" noise. But, in the background you can hear the same thing.
post #408 of 637
SeaBertTheSeal,

I had the same problem. It frustrated me greatly. If there is sufficient background noise (ie cars, waves, resturant sounds, etc) you will not hear the sound. However, at home the "rolling film" sound is noticeable. I never noticed this problem with the Kodak ZX3 pocket cam, Canon HF20 Vixia, or Canon XF100 I used. Good news, is that it can be eliminated by using manual focus, or reduced by using the "low" audio setting.

This video compares four settings, if you'd like to hear my camera's sound.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3DIK4Mj-cc

My biggest complaints concerning the HDR-GW77V are the "rolling film" sound, the lack of lower quality progressive settings, and the color saturation. When comparing this camera to others, the color saturation is actually pretty darn good. My HF-20 and ZX3 come nowhere close to the low light / color saturation performance of this camera. The Canon XF-100 does slightly better, but that thing costs 3k.

As stated earlier, the rolling shutter can be eliminated. I often film my child playing in the house. My viewers have never complained about the "rolling film" sound. Although it is annoying to me, it at least sounds like rolling film and not some awful screeching sound. I actually filmed an interview a few days ago. I used my iphone and a lav mic to record the audio separately. Problem avoided!

It would have been nice to have an external mic port. That way, the issue could be eliminated in quiet rooms.

Nonetheless, the camera turns out great quality video, is waterproof, easy to use, and small. It's hard to beat.
Edited by Boe Barker - 12/2/12 at 12:12pm
post #409 of 637
Markr041,

I've actually heard this sound in your videos. It is partly why I no longer thought my camera was defective.

Here are a couple of your videos with the "rolling film" sound present.
Many points throughout:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=swps7TA7pSM#!

At the very beginning:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=07hHU-MDErc

I should mention that I am hearing the sound via Macbook Air internal speakers.
Edited by Boe Barker - 12/2/12 at 12:15pm
post #410 of 637
Thread Starter 
You are correct - if you lift the volume up you can hear it. These are outside, silent but nature videos.
post #411 of 637
Thanks for all the comments and helpful information. I just can't live with guessing which scenes will have the "film roll" sounds e.g. Is it noisy enough around here? Even a simple outdoor shot around my house had the sound.

Since there really is no good way to tell what the threshold is until you hear the playback on a computer / TV, I'm going to have to keep searching...

Mabye I got a unit that is more affected than others?
post #412 of 637
I don't think so. Mine has the same issue. It was disappointing to me as well, but I just got over it.
post #413 of 637
Thread Starter 
I could easily hear seaberttheseal's noise without increasing my normal listening volume; at that same volume I could not hear the noise from my camcorder - I had to turn up the volume. So, I think this problem, to the extent it is a problem, varies.
post #414 of 637
If that's the case, maybe Sony will hand seaberttheseal and me less noisy cameras. smile.gif
post #415 of 637
Thread Starter 
Yes, so why don't you try an exchange and see, since it does bother you? rolleyes.gif
post #416 of 637
Thread Starter 
Another nightime GW77 Video: The Nanjing Qinhuai River Area at Night

The Qinhuai River area of Nanjing at night is a bustling center of activity. In this video you see the Confucian temple, a sampling of ancient music, and take a boat ride on the Qinhuai, all at night.


https://vimeo.com/54739766
post #417 of 637
^ In China again Mark. You must be getting pretty good at speaking and reading Chinese by now? Love the China videos. Please post more footage of the street musicians playing those crazy instruments.
post #418 of 637
Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

I could easily hear seaberttheseal's noise without increasing my normal listening volume; at that same volume I could not hear the noise from my camcorder - I had to turn up the volume. So, I think this problem, to the extent it is a problem, varies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boe Barker View Post

If that's the case, maybe Sony will hand seaberttheseal and me less noisy cameras. smile.gif

The purr..purr..purr noise could definitely vary in volume from cam to cam.The autofocus mechanism on each individual cam is most likely slightly different in build. Mark and I have experienced this noise in the past with cams. I would exchange a unit that seems to have a more pronounced auto focus noise with another unit to see if it is less severe.

It can be annoying at times but it is easily fixed by locking focus. All cams have their issues and you have to be prepared to adjust for those issues in certain filming scenarios if it bothers you. Like Boe Barker states, "it is a little disappointing but you quickly get over it", especially knowing the focus lock eliminates it entirely.

This particular autofocusing noise problem would not deter me from purchasing a GW-77. It has taken the small portable waterproof, shockproof, and dustproof cam to a whole new level.
post #419 of 637
OK, on the edge of purchasing the GW77. Unfortunately, no Sony stores around here, nor are there any stores that have the GW77 in stock around here. So.....I have to order on line. Question: Which of the following two businesses would be the favorite to order on line; Amazon or B&H? Which of the two has a better return policy if I get an extra noisy GW77? Which of the two can be trusted more?

Thanks.
Railfan (Mike)

Hope it is OK to ask these questions.
post #420 of 637
Quote:
Originally Posted by Railfan View Post

OK, on the edge of purchasing the GW77. Unfortunately, no Sony stores around here, nor are there any stores that have the GW77 in stock around here. So.....I have to order on line. Question: Which of the following two businesses would be the favorite to order on line; Amazon or B&H? Which of the two has a better return policy if I get an extra noisy GW77? Which of the two can be trusted more?
Thanks.
Railfan (Mike)
Hope it is OK to ask these questions.
I am a very regular customer at Amazon. I pay the annual fee for free two day shipping. (Amazon Prime) I think I save money by not driving to the store for things like ink cartridges. I buy everything I can from them. Recently I saved money on fuel and oil filters for my motorhome! Their return policy is fine. Basically, you click on the right spots and your printer will print a return label and you go to a UPS location.

For camera gear I prefer B&H, although their free shipping is slow. In my state we have a near 10% sales tax. Since they have a single New York store, they don't find it necessary to charge me sales tax. Amazon is home based in my state. They have to charge me sales tax! In other words, every day is a 10% off sale for me at B&H

B&H service is legendary and stellar!

Part of the B&H retail strategy is a 100%, no questions asked, 30 day return. I bought a camera from them a few weeks before an out of country trip and realized my 30 days would expire before I returned. I emailed for an extension in case I discovered flaws on the trip. They emailed back a 30 day extension. (I kept the camera.)

I bought an expensive video workstation laptop and screwed up the system software at about 45 days. I "on line chatted" where they offered me a refund or replacement. I like computer and asked if they could help me get it repaired. They provided a contact at the computer maker and all is now fixed at no cost to me.

My wife bought a camera from B&H two weeks ago. The next day there was a $50 price drop due to Black Friday competition. She "online chatted" with them. In seconds, she got a $50 credit.

I don't know any insiders at B&H. I think the see the costs of their 30 day return program to be cheaper than having branch stores. They can service the entire country from one place. I know they get abused by a lot of camera junkies that just want to play with a new toy for a few days, but they still do it.

In short, buy ALL your camera gear from B&H. They are that good.

Bill
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