or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Speakers › My first Magnolia store experience
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

My first Magnolia store experience - Page 2

post #31 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

Wonder if you said the same thing about Circuit City? Remember them?

I thought CC would go bankrupt. They fired all their good employees and replaced them with minimum wage Haitians. Or at least Haitians where I lived. Shopping at CC was a nightmare. No help. Even if you decided what you wanted, often times you couldn't buy it. There was no one to get the merchandise for you. While the future doesn't look bright for Best Buy, they're in much better shape than CC was in the last couple of years. I think they'll be around for at least another 10 years.
post #32 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by toslat View Post

Unless the customer has personal issues with the store, I doubt it qualifies as zero intention.

The intention is to buy at the best source, usually in terms of value for money. If the B&M pricing is similar or possibly better, I am sure the customer would buy.
The problem is when some think B&M should be 'compensated' for letting the customer audition. People that feel so are free to do so, but do not have the right to criticize those of a different opinion.

This debate started with a poster who suggested going to the store for demoing then exclusively buying on the web. I haven't seem anyone suggest that the big box B&M store should be compensated for the audition.

If someone wants to buy from the web, that's great. Just don't waste the time and money of the B&M to audition their products if you have zero intent to purchase there.
post #33 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post

So how is this different that say, going to 5 different stores to see who has the best price on a TV set!? Technically, you are wasting the time of every salesperson except the one you eventually buy from....

+1
post #34 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by jproy13 View Post

and educated buyer will look at more then just the cheap price. He/she should look at return policies among others. I like the little things like when bringing a defective piece of equipment for warranty work, the human being at the B&M store will give you a loaner. I like it when you have a problem with a piece of equipment, you simply bring it back and they give you another one right then and their. I guess I'm a dying breed.
It would be a pretty sad economy we live in if everybody would do what is suggested by some...

I do too. The thing is, if it is easy to ship back for warranty / returns, online is just as good.

There is a lot of interesting speculation of how the future will develop. For Hifi, I was thinking about this:

Imagine a giant showroom with lots of systems set up solely for the purpose of demoing the equipment. They would have all brands because they are not selling, just demoing. There is a fee to get in, lets say $20 per hour and in that time you can listen to all the equipment you want. Here's the kicker -the equipment can be on loan from audiophiles that want to earn some money from their extra speakers. Let's say I have an extra set of B&Ws or Paradigms collecting dust... loan them out to the speaker demo place and make some extra $$$$!
post #35 of 92
^ In some ways, the shows are functioning like this giant showroom you describe. Sometimes the shows are the only place you can hear lots of different speakers.

Even stores like BB/Magnolia have a very limited selection.

Could it get to the point that people have to go to consumer electronics shows to see/hear what they want?
post #36 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

This debate started with a poster who suggested going to the store for demoing then exclusively buying on the web. I haven't seem anyone suggest that the big box B&M store should be compensated for the audition.
If someone wants to buy from the web, that's great. Just don't waste the time and money of the B&M to audition their products if you have zero intent to purchase there.
Why? Am I supposed to be concerned about their profitability? Do you tell the stores too to not waste my money by marking up the goods they sell when I cant afford it.?

The stores are free to act as they deem fit (and they do), as I am too. Your one-sided allocation of responsibility is (at best) hilarious.

Window shopping as existed for centuries and the notion that it some unethical practice is just silly.
post #37 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelkingdom View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jproy13 View Post

and educated buyer will look at more then just the cheap price. He/she should look at return policies among others. I like the little things like when bringing a defective piece of equipment for warranty work, the human being at the B&M store will give you a loaner. I like it when you have a problem with a piece of equipment, you simply bring it back and they give you another one right then and their. I guess I'm a dying breed.
It would be a pretty sad economy we live in if everybody would do what is suggested by some...

I do too. The thing is, if it is easy to ship back for warranty / returns, online is just as good.

There is a lot of interesting speculation of how the future will develop. For Hifi, I was thinking about this:

Imagine a giant showroom with lots of systems set up solely for the purpose of demoing the equipment. They would have all brands because they are not selling, just demoing. There is a fee to get in, lets say $20 per hour and in that time you can listen to all the equipment you want. Here's the kicker -the equipment can be on loan from audiophiles that want to earn some money from their extra speakers. Let's say I have an extra set of B&Ws or Paradigms collecting dust... loan them out to the speaker demo place and make some extra $$$$!

take this post down, you may be on something here....tongue.gif
post #38 of 92
I don't think fee based showrooms would work. Consumers are driven by 'free'. Imagine how many people wold bail if twitter or Facebook charge a dollar a month
post #39 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by toslat View Post

Unless the customer has personal issues with the store, I doubt it qualifies as zero intention.

The intention is to buy at the best source, usually in terms of value for money. If the B&M pricing is similar or possibly better, I am sure the customer would buy.
The problem is when some think B&M should be 'compensated' for letting the customer audition. People that feel so are free to do so, but do not have the right to criticize those of a different opinion.

This debate started with a poster who suggested going to the store for demoing then exclusively buying on the web. I haven't seem anyone suggest that the big box B&M store should be compensated for the audition.

If someone wants to buy from the web, that's great. Just don't waste the time and money of the B&M to audition their products if you have zero intent to purchase there.

The point you completely missed is it started as a suggestion for a budget buyer who doesn't have experience with hifi and doesn't know what he is looking for yet. A suggestion to maximize the budget, to educate himself in an easy way and to avoid the rip-offs that normally associated with your beloved BB.

Personally BB doesn't carry none of the audio products I look for with the exception of cables. I use AudioQuest and it's normally the only reason I'd set foot in a Magnolia store. And your honest living sales person are the ones that always start to suggest to buy speakers, subs or receivers by saying "why don't you come to the room and take a listen to what we have..."
Edited by kzhtoo - 7/13/12 at 6:41pm
post #40 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by kzhtoo View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by toslat View Post

Unless the customer has personal issues with the store, I doubt it qualifies as zero intention.

The intention is to buy at the best source, usually in terms of value for money. If the B&M pricing is similar or possibly better, I am sure the customer would buy.
The problem is when some think B&M should be 'compensated' for letting the customer audition. People that feel so are free to do so, but do not have the right to criticize those of a different opinion.

This debate started with a poster who suggested going to the store for demoing then exclusively buying on the web. I haven't seem anyone suggest that the big box B&M store should be compensated for the audition.

If someone wants to buy from the web, that's great. Just don't waste the time and money of the B&M to audition their products if you have zero intent to purchase there.

The point you completely missed is it started as a suggestion for a budget buyer who doesn't have experience with hifi and doesn't know what he is looking for yet. A suggestion to maximize the budget, to educate hisself/herself in an easy way and to avoid the rip-offs that normally associated with your beloved BB.

Personally BB doesn't carry none of the audio products I look for with the exception of cables. I use AudioQuest and it's normally the only reason I'd set foot in a Magnolia store.

how are they ripping off ppl? with all the tools we have at our disposition, if one gets "ripped off", one probably deserves it. I buy regularly at Future Shop, I walk in knowing how much the item I want is selling for. I'll state my intent with the salesperson, negotiate on a price and more often then not, I get the price I'm looking for, it's not complicated.

I'm failing to understand that "I'm entitle to waste another person's time and livelihood" attitude.
post #41 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by kzhtoo View Post

The point you completely missed is it started as a suggestion for a budget buyer who doesn't have experience with hifi and doesn't know what he is looking for yet. A suggestion to maximize the budget, to educate himself in an easy way and to avoid the rip-offs that normally associated with your beloved BB.
Personally BB doesn't carry none of the audio products I look for with the exception of cables. I use AudioQuest and it's normally the only reason I'd set foot in a Magnolia store. And your honest living sales person are the ones that always start to suggest to buy speakers, subs or receivers by saying "why don't you come to the room and take a listen to what we have..."

I don't care about Best Buy as a specific entity. What I do care about is having a place where I can go to audition gear - fortunately in my area, there are still a few good independent stores that make that opportunity available. Paying a small percentage over the minimum internet price to retain that type of service is worth it for me, particularly for speakers. The stores know that they have to get reasonably close to internet pricing to make the deal and if they can't when given the chance, then everyone walks away with a handshake and no hard feelings.

Whats going to kill these stores are people who go to demo then don't give the B&M a chance to make the deal. If there's value in using the facility to educate oneself, then why participate in it's demise?

This isn't a diatribe against internet purchasing, but I don't believe it's good for the hobby to leverage the B&M's as nothing more than auditioning stations for the internet storefronts. When buying from the internet, use the web for research then get the best price you can.

Special AudioQuest cables from Magnolia? If you want a real tip on saving money via internet purchasing, I have one for you.
post #42 of 92
Quote:
I'm failing to understand that "I'm entitle to waste another person's time and livelihood" attitude.

In the 2 Best Buy stores here in Fresno, most of the time the employees are talking to themselves or standing around doing nothing. In fact most of the time, there are more employees in the store than customers. It's not 'wasting' an employee's time when they weren't doing anything productive in the first place.

Plus, customer service is HUGE for stores like Best Buy. If the employees take their time to answer customer's questions, even if the customer doesn't buy that item there, it will help out the store in the long run(and definitely won't hurt the store because, remember, the customer never intended to buy there anyway) because word will get around how great their customer service is.

I worked at Best Buy near Santa Cruz, and their whole philosophy was that great customer service was always better than making a sale, because even even if the customer is an 'online buyer', it will pay off in the long-run because they will tell someone about their great experience. While I was living over there, that store was always in the top percentile for most sales, so they must be doing something right.
post #43 of 92
^^^^^^^
you are right about customer service and it's all find and dandy but it still don't give anybody the right to waste's one's time and livelihood without giving that person a chance to make a sale. Believe me, when you start in commission's sales, you have all the best intention in the world, but it gets demoralizing very quickly when you walk up to a customer who has 0 intention of buying from you day in and day out. The result is typically employees just standing there looking at the clock waiting for the big needle to hit the 5.

I wish there was a BB with a Magnolia in my area. Typically these type of store can carry several brands of speaker within several price ranges compare to a smaller specialized store who just can't afford to carry a large inventory. I'd be broke by now:eek:

My whole point is not that I'm in love with BB or Future Shop, it's mostly about common courtesy towards another person, a little bit of respect (seems to be gone sadly). I take 20mins of their time, I'm going to give them a chance to get compensated for their time. If we both walk away happy, everybody wins. A lot of the time, they'll come in your store to spend that buck. That's my point.
Edited by jproy13 - 7/14/12 at 7:13am
post #44 of 92
Sam's and Costco for example have people stocking shelves and cashiers. Need to find something? Good luck! And that's fine and may be the future of retail. Shelves of items, very minimally marked up, good return policies and no customer service.

I guess I'm okay with that.

There's always room for boutique hifi shops that can provide the customer service angle.
post #45 of 92
^^^
it could very well be. Something tells me that Costco operate at nearly 0% margins but rely on volume rebates (and Lord knows it probably is substantial) as their main source of revenue. From a business standpoint, makes a whole lot of sense. By selling near cost, you create volume, and buy having volume, you buy more and the more you buy, the higher your volume rebate.

I don't know this for a fact, but it looks that way.
post #46 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by jproy13 View Post

^^^
it could very well be. Something tells me that Costco operate at nearly 0% margins but rely on volume rebates (and Lord knows it probably is substantial) as their main source of revenue. From a business standpoint, makes a whole lot of sense. By selling near cost, you create volume, and buy having volume, you buy more and the more you buy, the higher your volume rebate.
I don't know this for a fact, but it looks that way.

To be chosen as a supplier for Costco is a massive opportunity. They carefully select what they sell and then sell it in 100s of stores. Then as a supplier to Costco, they pretty much tell you what they'll pay for the item. It's brutal but it's the price of entry.
post #47 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by jproy13 View Post

^^^^^^^
you are right about customer service and it's all find and dandy but it still don't give anybody the right to waste's one's time and livelihood without giving that person a chance to make a sale. Believe me, when you start in commission's sales, you have all the best intention in the world, but it gets demoralizing very quickly when you walk up to a customer who has 0 intention of buying from you day in and day out. The result is typically employees just standing there looking at the clock waiting for the big needle to hit the 5.
I wish there was a BB with a Magnolia in my area. Typically these type of store can carry several brands of speaker within several price ranges compare to a smaller specialized store who just can't afford to carry a large inventory. I'd be broke by now:eek:
My whole point is not that I'm in love with BB or Future Shop, it's mostly about common courtesy towards another person, a little bit of respect (seems to be gone sadly). I take 20mins of their time, I'm going to give them a chance to get compensated for their time. If we both walk away happy, everybody wins. A lot of the time, they'll come in your store to spend that buck. That's my point.
My problem is with the lopsidedness of your sympathy. If the sales guy and/or his employer do not care if they are wasting my money, why should I care about wasting their time.

I do not believe in the existence of the 'win-win' situations for both seller and buyer as their objective are directly opposing. its a zero sum game: the more profit a seller makes on a sale the less value per dollar a buyer is getting i.e. the more one wins, the more the other loses. Yes they can be fortunate to come to an agreement at a midpoint, but they both cant said to have won or lost - they simply reached an agreement.
post #48 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by toslat View Post

My problem is with the lopsidedness of your sympathy. If the sales guy and/or his employer do not care if they are wasting my money, why should I care about wasting their time.
I do not believe in the existence of the 'win-win' situations for both seller and buyer as their objective are directly opposing. its a zero sum game: the more profit a seller makes on a sale the less value per dollar a buyer is getting i.e. the more one wins, the more the other loses. Yes they can be fortunate to come to an agreement at a midpoint, but they both cant said to have won or lost - they simply reached an agreement.

How are you determining value per dollar? Is it purely based on the lowest internet price of said item? If so, you might consider that B&M stores provide more value in certain areas than an internet seller.

When you are sick, would you go to Medi-India.com and do a live chat to get diagnosed? Yes? Then if you were misdiagnosed who would you take issue with? A hospital is a good place to go if you have medical issues. They can help you the whole way.
post #49 of 92
Quote:
I do not believe in the existence of the 'win-win' situations for both seller and buyer as their objective are directly opposing. its a zero sum game: the more profit a seller makes on a sale the less value per dollar a buyer is getting i.e. the more one wins, the more the other loses. Yes they can be fortunate to come to an agreement at a midpoint, but they both cant said to have won or lost - they simply reached an agreement.

confused.gif
post #50 of 92
Anybody who is thinking try before you buy should read this thread.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1418929/best-buys-90-day-ban-policy-for-returns-not-a-great-deal
post #51 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelkingdom View Post

How are you determining value per dollar? Is it purely based on the lowest internet price of said item? If so, you might consider that B&M stores provide more value in certain areas than an internet seller.
When you are sick, would you go to Medi-India.com and do a live chat to get diagnosed? Yes? Then if you were misdiagnosed who would you take issue with? A hospital is a good place to go if you have medical issues. They can help you the whole way.
In a given transaction, the buyer pays the cost of X dollars and receives good and/or service. then Value per dollar = (Value of good and/or service)/(cost in dollars)
Cost can include other factors beyond sale price like time, transportation, convenience etc
Value is determined by the buyer and thus a subjective evaluation. Irrespective of the variations of value and/or cost between individual transactions terms, it always holds that the more a buyer pays the less value he/she is getting per dollar.
post #52 of 92
Please give me a break !! Who in this world cares if or wants the sales person to make big bucks from your sale, Its screw or get screwed...
Like the song from Low Spark Of High Heeled Boys by Traffic. " The man in the suit has just bought a new car from the profits he made on your dreams "
post #53 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

This debate started with a poster who suggested going to the store for demoing then exclusively buying on the web. I haven't seem anyone suggest that the big box B&M store should be compensated for the audition.
If someone wants to buy from the web, that's great. Just don't waste the time and money of the B&M to audition their products if you have zero intent to purchase there.

Why? It's our right to go to any store and audition EQ. Where we buy it is up to the person spending their money. If the OP asked if BB would price match, then maybe that's what he should do. Problem solved. Then the EQ is bought locally and if there is a problem then he could return the product. In FL, when I lived there, I went to a place called Sound Advice. ALL of there products were overpriced to say the least. But I went in to audition speakers and receivers (Polk towers and Denon). Then I went to a small audio business and auditioned EQ there and bought from him instead of the bigger over priced store because the EQ he sold was better and sounded better AND cost me less money. A car dealer told me when we were trying to buy a car "we are not in the business of loosing money"!! I said "neither am I"! And promplty walked out.

Jeff
post #54 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobL View Post

And watch more stores close:rolleyes:

idiotic. It's all a profit game.

If Best Buy can "audition" equipment from one wholesaler and buy it cheaper at another, they would do the exact same thing (retailers do this ALL THE TIME, they are constantly looking for cheaper middle men to buy product from).
post #55 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by joehonest View Post

Please give me a break !! Who in this world cares if or wants the sales person to make big bucks from your sale, Its screw or get screwed...
Like the song from Low Spark Of High Heeled Boys by Traffic. " The man in the suit has just bought a new car from the profits he made on your dreams "
Yeah but Low Spark was all about drugs -heroin and cocaine- right?
post #56 of 92
So according to some posts here every time you go into a store if you don't buy you're waisting the salesperson time? That is lunacy. How many times have you gone into a store to research between several products. I have done this many times. I had no intention of buying so i was waisting the sales person time? I don't normally go into a store with one and only one model that I'm looking at. I touch, play, look and listen. Then go home and do more reading as i narrow down what i want. So every time I do this I'm waisting a sales persons time? I thought that was their job to help us decide what to buy based on our needs, and what we can afford. So when you buy a car you must have bought from the first dealer you went to, don't want to waste the sales person time. I must be an a@@H%^& I went to a Ford, Chevy, Lexus and Toyota and only bought from one of them. I can't believe I wasted those sales persons time. Don't know how I will live with myself.
post #57 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnbiker socal View Post

So according to some posts here every time you go into a store if you don't buy you're waisting the salesperson time? That is lunacy. How many times have you gone into a store to research between several products. I have done this many times. I had no intention of buying so i was waisting the sales person time? I don't normally go into a store with one and only one model that I'm looking at. I touch, play, look and listen. Then go home and do more reading as i narrow down what i want. So every time I do this I'm waisting a sales persons time? I thought that was their job to help us decide what to buy based on our needs, and what we can afford. So when you buy a car you must have bought from the first dealer you went to, don't want to waste the sales person time. I must be an a@@H%^& I went to a Ford, Chevy, Lexus and Toyota and only bought from one of them. I can't believe I wasted those sales persons time. Don't know how I will live with myself.

It is like going into a mattress store and taking a nap. When you wake up, you tell the sales people, "no thanks. I was just browsing."

It's like going to Costco only for the samples.

It's like showing up for Christmas only for the presents.
post #58 of 92
Whenever I've been in a store browsing (wasting time) and a sales person approaches me, I'm always 100% clear that I'm only looking, wasting some personal time while waiting on the wife (or somethign like that) and am not a buying customer. If there are other people milling about, I'll say that they might want to talk to them because they are only wasting their time with me as there is no sale going to happen.

Sometimes they smile, thank me and go to the next customer, sometimes they say "nah, they've been helped by George... what are you looking at and I'll play it for you" and basically join me in my lurking about their store. Sometimes we end up having a nice session and 'talk shop' about the subject at hand.

I think they appreciate knowing straight up that I'm a dead end and wiling to be honest about it rather than lie and act like "oh, I'll come back later after I think about it" or some crap like that.


I might add that I've been in/around sales for a good part of my life and detest time wasters. If you're interested, great. I'll bend over backwards to help you as much as I possibly can (not necessarily upsell you but to try to assess your needs and fill your needs accurately AND honestly). If you are not interested, that's great too... just say so and don't make me waste my time by calling you back "next week" like you asked me to... only to put it off again.

I only ask that you treat me with the same respect.

I've never had a salesperson get outwardly put out by my honesty with them.
post #59 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

Yeah but Low Spark was all about drugs -heroin and cocaine- right?

That's the beauty of music, lyrics and poetry, its means something at all levels of life.

Going into a retail store just to look / listen and play around is America's #1 past time, soldiers fight for our freedom to do this..
Sales people win some and lose some, sometimes the sales person gives it away, so the next one may have to be riped-off, but it won't be me balancing their books...
post #60 of 92
^^^

i really doubt soldiers fight to preserve your right to windowshop... rolleyes.gif

don't demean the people who have given their lives for our country with such a flippant remark... mad.gifmad.gifmad.gif
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Speakers
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Speakers › My first Magnolia store experience