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HDTV DVR Comparision - Consumer owned units

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
Looked at chart comparing Tivo, Moxi, etc. and only Tivo and Moxi seem to support a TVGOS guide working off a cable card. Does this actually work via cable company alone? I have a 10 year old Sony HDD DHG250 DVR which I love for sports because it allows me to set advance and rewind time (at push of 1 button) to either 5, 10, 15, or 30 seconds so I can easily navigate between pitches for BB or snaps for football. Do either the Tivo or Moxi have similar functionality? My Sony has real issues with maintaining TVGOS absent use of OTA and I'm limited to cable so may need to find a replacement but don't want to give up the great advance/rewind one touch feature.

Thx!
post #2 of 24
Thread Starter 
Any thoughts on this topic are really appreciated!
post #3 of 24
Moxi is dead as a consumer owned product. mad.gif
post #4 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeattleSuburbia View Post

Moxi is dead as a consumer owned product. mad.gif

Why? Lack of reliability?
post #5 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestLeeD View Post

Why? Lack of reliability?

No, because Arris, the company that bought out Digeo (the company that originally made the Moxi), killed the product line. They're literally not making them anymore. The Moxi never used TVGoS for guide data.

Also, TiVo does not, and never has, used TVGoS as a guide data source. You have to connect your TiVo to a broadband Internet connection, or a phone line for models before the Premiere, to get TiVo's guide service (and pay monthly, annually, or as a lump-sum for its guide service).

There are DVRs (the CM7000/PalDVR, the Sony DHG-HDD250/500, and others) that use TVGoS, but Rovi seems to care less and less about keeping TVGoS actually working. The thread for the DHG-HDD250/500 shows the owners of them are in a constant struggle to get and keep guide data on their units, due to one problem or another with their local TVGoS feeds.
post #6 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by demonfoo View Post

No, because Arris, the company that bought out Digeo (the company that originally made the Moxi), killed the product line. They're literally not making them anymore. The Moxi never used TVGoS for guide data.
Also, TiVo does not, and never has, used TVGoS as a guide data source. You have to connect your TiVo to a broadband Internet connection, or a phone line for models before the Premiere, to get TiVo's guide service (and pay monthly, annually, or as a lump-sum for its guide service).
There are DVRs (the CM7000/PalDVR, the Sony DHG-HDD250/500, and others) that use TVGoS, but Rovi seems to care less and less about keeping TVGoS actually working. The thread for the DHG-HDD250/500 shows the owners of them are in a constant struggle to get and keep guide data on their units, due to one problem or another with their local TVGoS feeds.

Understand that Moxi is no longer made, but neither is my 10 year old Sony HDD DHG250 DVR, so what's problem with buying a used Moxi? Is it that it is as equally unreliable in the "new all digital" cable (in my case Comcast) world. All I want is a non-fee/month DVR that I can control advance and rewind time in 5 second increments, e.g., 1 click for 15 sec fwd and 1 click for 5 sec back, ala my Sony HDD DHG250 DVR. IF a Moxi could do that, and reliably obtain ;programming data from a cable feed, I'd consider switching to that from my Sony unit.

Thx.
post #7 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by demonfoo View Post

No, because Arris, the company that bought out Digeo (the company that originally made the Moxi), killed the product line. They're literally not making them anymore. The Moxi never used TVGoS for guide data.
Also, TiVo does not, and never has, used TVGoS as a guide data source. You have to connect your TiVo to a broadband Internet connection, or a phone line for models before the Premiere, to get TiVo's guide service (and pay monthly, annually, or as a lump-sum for its guide service).
There are DVRs (the CM7000/PalDVR, the Sony DHG-HDD250/500, and others) that use TVGoS, but Rovi seems to care less and less about keeping TVGoS actually working. The thread for the DHG-HDD250/500 shows the owners of them are in a constant struggle to get and keep guide data on their units, due to one problem or another with their local TVGoS feeds.

p.s. I also agree with your comments re: Rovi's lack of interest in consumer as I've left several messages, and stayed on hold for hours (literally) trying to get one of their engineers on the phone all to no avail as all I want to do is nail the source of my issues, i.e., Sony hardware or software/Rovi/or Comcast.
post #8 of 24
The TiVo Premier XL has one-button skip forward for 30-seconds, back for 8-seconds. Neither is user adjustable. Other models of TiVo may be different, I don't know.
The TiVo uses it's own program Listings obtained over the internet or telephone connection, as someone else indicated.
Any device that use TVGOS over-the-air or via Cable is going to be subject to all the same potential problems as the Sony DHG-HDDxxx.
post #9 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS65711 View Post

The TiVo Premier XL has one-button skip forward for 30-seconds, back for 8-seconds. Neither is user adjustable. Other models of TiVo may be different, I don't know.
The TiVo uses it's own program Listings obtained over the internet or telephone connection, as someone else indicated.
Any device that use TVGOS over-the-air or via Cable is going to be subject to all the same potential problems as the Sony DHG-HDDxxx.

Thx, and the other issue w/TIVO is that it charges a monthly fee making it from my perspective no better than the cable co offerings; just wish I could tell whether it's the DHG/Comcast/or Rovi that's left me without a guide since Memorial day on all 3 of my units.

p.s. I'm believing it's either Comcast (who went all digital in my area Mem day) or Rovi, and while perhaps they've since restarted transmission I've not yet figured out which group of steps to take to restart service for fear of wiping out my channel grid (allowing recording albeit only by my figuring out difference between actual and incorrect DHG clock)
post #10 of 24
Your hunch that it's Comcast is probably correct. cool.gif

My three TiVo's cost me around $700 each with the Lifetime service. My three Sony's cost me an average of about $500 each. With the TiVo's I can record a program on one machine and watch it on another over the network. We do that quite often. smile.gif

The link below is to the spreadsheet I developed a while back to convert current time to "SonyTime" and vice-versa. wink.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by WS65711 View Post

Is it this simple, or am I missing something?

http://av-pix.com/2011/DHG-SonyTime.xls
post #11 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS65711 View Post

Your hunch that it's Comcast is probably correct. cool.gif
My three TiVo's cost me around $700 each with the Lifetime service. My three Sony's cost me an average of about $500 each. With the TiVo's I can record a program on one machine and watch it on another over the network. We do that quite often. smile.gif
The link below is to the spreadsheet I developed a while back to convert current time to "SonyTime" and vice-versa. wink.gif

Thx for sharing that nifty calculator! Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that the TIVO units do not allow for advance and replay adjustment like the Sony increments I like (allows me to watch NFL snap by snap, or MLB pitch by pitch).
post #12 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestLeeD View Post

Thx for sharing that nifty calculator! Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that the TIVO units do not allow for advance and replay adjustment like the Sony increments I like (allows me to watch NFL snap by snap, or MLB pitch by pitch).

Mine (Premier XL's) don't have an adjustable increment. It's fixed at 30 seconds forward, 8 seconds back. Other TiVo models may be different, I dunno. I used to keep my Sonys set at 30 seconds forward and 5 seconds back, so it was fairly easy for me to adjust to the +30 -8 arrangement.
post #13 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestLeeD View Post

Understand that Moxi is no longer made, but neither is my 10 year old Sony HDD DHG250 DVR, so what's problem with buying a used Moxi? Is it that it is as equally unreliable in the "new all digital" cable (in my case Comcast) world.

No, they only have digital tuners. However, Arris has already made one pass at ending the Moxi guide service (they claimed that it was an "error", but I highly doubt that). I'd suspect in a year or two, they'll try again. If there's not enough outcry when it happens, every consumer-owned Moxi is instantly a brick.
Quote:
All I want is a non-fee/month DVR that I can control advance and rewind time in 5 second increments, e.g., 1 click for 15 sec fwd and 1 click for 5 sec back, ala my Sony HDD DHG250 DVR. IF a Moxi could do that, and reliably obtain ;programming data from a cable feed, I'd consider switching to that from my Sony unit.
Thx.

Well, it's reliable for now - until whenever Arris decides they're tired of providing the service for "free" ("free" is in quotes, because one of the selling points when they were still being made was that "unlike with TiVo, you don't have to pay for guide service for the life of the unit, it's paid for up front!" - the problem with that being since they're not getting a continuing revenue stream, they see no fiduciary interest in continuing to provide it). Dunno if the Moxi provides adjustable skip-forward and -back times, but I don't believe that's the case.
post #14 of 24
Quote:
The thread for the DHG-HDD250/500 shows the owners of them are in a constant struggle to get and keep guide data on their units, due to one problem or another with their local TVGoS feeds.
Of the thousands that were sold, the handful of members that are having problems are a very small percentage.
No difference than issues with TV's. The problems always comes out. Why post when you don't have a problem? wink.gif
Quote:
but neither is my 10 year old Sony HDD DHG250 DVR,
That Sony came out in 2005. Lets' not make it older than it is.
Quote:
control advance and rewind time in 5 second increments, e.g., 1 click for 15 sec fwd and 1 click for 5 sec back
You do that through a commerical break? Your finger and the associated button must really be in bad shape by now. eek.gif
post #15 of 24
Is the Moxi like the Sony; no Guide data, no recording or is there a manual option like there should be?
post #16 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

Is the Moxi like the Sony; no Guide data, no recording or is there a manual option like there should be?

Yes, that's my understanding of the situation. Without the guide service, the box is basically useless. And unfortunately, there'd almost certainly be no option for the service side to be bought out for someone to continue providing it, like with TiVo; if it goes away, it's gone. Gone gone.
post #17 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by demonfoo View Post

And unfortunately, there'd almost certainly be no option for the service side to be bought out for someone to continue providing it, like with TiVo.
Replay TV boxes have continued to get guide service long after they were a footnote. No one can really say what will happen should TiVo go under. If there is a profit to be made supplying guide service, someone will step to the plate.
post #18 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

Quote:
 Why post when you don't have a problem? wink.gif
 

 

Because you gave up on it long ago, and moved onto something more reliable? Most people that have DVR's want them to "just work".


Edited by Rammitinski - 7/17/12 at 1:06am
post #19 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
If there is a profit to be made supplying guide service, someone will step to the plate.

 

Which leaves out TVGOS through cable and OTA. Internet delivery has already been decided on, as far as the future, most profitable, TVGOS delivery mode. 


Edited by Rammitinski - 7/17/12 at 2:11am
post #20 of 24
Quote:
Most people that have DVR's want them to "just work".
Now that's a silly idea. What fun is in that? biggrin.gif
post #21 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by demonfoo View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

Is the Moxi like the Sony; no Guide data, no recording or is there a manual option like there should be?

Yes, that's my understanding of the situation. Without the guide service, the box is basically useless. And unfortunately, there'd almost certainly be no option for the service side to be bought out for someone to continue providing it, like with TiVo; if it goes away, it's gone. Gone gone.

 

According to this Moxi user, you can't even watch live TV w/o the Guide.

post #22 of 24
Pure stupidity. Period.

Almost as bad as producing a digital tuner/recorder that can't do HDTV. wink.gif
post #23 of 24
Yep, they really cheaped out in the software when they didn't even provide capability to do manual (time-based) recordings or view live TV without the guide. IMO they would have to release an update to enable this before pulling the plug on the guide service, but from what I've read they only sold around 5k units so they might just pull the plug and settle with whoever gets a lawyer.

Either way, Moxi is not a viable option at this point unless you get a really cheap used one.
post #24 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

Replay TV boxes have continued to get guide service long after they were a footnote. No one can really say what will happen should TiVo go under. If there is a profit to be made supplying guide service, someone will step to the plate.
But you have to pay for that guide service, like with TiVo. Which is fine. My point was that the Moxi box is a different story because unlike those cases, Arris still owns the tech, protocols, infrastructure, etc., and because existing Moxi owners who paid full price for the units probably won't want to pay monthly for the guide service that they paid a buttload up front to get. If TiVo went under, someone would probably buy them up at least for their customer base, but this wouldn't be Arris going under, just them saying "We're sick of doing this for a product we don't sell anymore and aren't making money from, F off".
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