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Recording With MythTV - How Are the Kids Doing it These Days?

post #1 of 40
Thread Starter 
I've been running MythTV to record with my R5000-HD to tap directly into the Dish transport stream, for many years now. Unfortunately development stopped on the R5000 patch to MythTV a couple years ago and I am stuck on Myth 0.22 . Starting to feel a bit left behind now that 0.25 is out.

I would love to update the R5000 patch, but I am not a coder and the dev (Alan Nisota) has dropped out of sight.

What's the latest on recording devices these days? (Please don;t tell my it's still the HD-PVR - hate that A.D conversion) Isn't there something better, for recording Dish Network?
post #2 of 40
Hi quantumstate, good to see you again, I hope you are doing well!
Sorry, can't help you with your question as I don't use Mythtv, but maybe someone else can.
post #3 of 40
Thread Starter 
Thanks tux. My system's run so well that now I'm starting to feel dated.

Thing is I'm one of the few using the R5000-HD, which requires a special patch to MythTV. But the dev stopped working on the patch a couple years ago and it won't apply to Myth newer than 0.22.

So wondering what others are using these days. What are you using for DVR recording?
post #4 of 40
Other than all the old standard tuner methods, two interesting options supported in current MythTV releases are:

1. HDHomeRun Prime: Network-based ATSC/QAM tuner which supports Cablecard. I use this, and it allows me to view/record most cable channels with the exception of the premium movie channels like HBO. It works very well.

2. Hauppage HD-PVR: Takes analog HD component video output and has a hardware H.264 encoder to create an HD stream for MythTV recording. I've never tried this one.
post #5 of 40
Thread Starter 
Oh dear. Nothing new under the Sun, or better than I have, even after several years. Guess I'm stuck at Myth 0.22.
post #6 of 40
@quantumstate,

Alan added support for Myth 0.24 back in 2010.

http://code.google.com/p/r5000-for-linux/source/list

When the Myth devs decided that they didn't want to include this patch in mainline due to non-existent DMCA problems, Alan moved his patch from Myth's TRAC to Google Code.

I'm not sure what's required to make it work on 0.25, but I can look into it.

I've never used Myth before, but I'm interested in trying it out.

-Wes
post #7 of 40
Thread Starter 
Oh, that's interesting. Yes I've just found that I'm actually running mythtv-fixes-0.24 build 27420 with Alan's R18, but it seems like I've been running this for years.

Problem with builds of 0.24 newer than mine and 0.25 is that the patch does not apply cleanly. I'm not a coder but I can tell you how I compile if you like.
post #8 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by quantumstate View Post

Oh, that's interesting. Yes I've just found that I'm actually running mythtv-fixes-0.24 build 27420 with Alan's R18, but it seems like I've been running this for years.
Problem with builds of 0.24 newer than mine and 0.25 is that the patch does not apply cleanly. I'm not a coder but I can tell you how I compile if you like.

Try asking on the mythtv-users mailing list. I'm sure you are not the only one who still has this setup. Probably one or two of the -dev's there have made it worked but not bothered to release the patches because no one has asked...
post #9 of 40
Yes, please.

That will save me time.

I'll take a look at the patch and see what's going on.

It may be a while, I'm pretty slammed at the moment, but keep an eye on this thread.

I should be able to figure it out.

-Wes
post #10 of 40
Thread Starter 
LOL, every time I mention the R5000 there, they get emotionally out of control. Ostensibly their problem is legal penalties for direct copying of the digital transport stream. Doesn't matter that a commercial Winduhs product (Sage) has R5000 functionality, nor that there is always a Cease and Desist before they begin to even think about penalties. Myth devs are so over-emotional about this that they drown out any technical discussion. More about King Of The Hill, than excellence.

Nevertheless, I'll try once again.

Take your time Waldo.
post #11 of 40
Don't bother asking at Myth.

I read the old trac ticket and that says plenty about how they feel.
http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/4752

They are really being unreasonable about it. There is no DMCA violation, because the copy-protection is NOT being circumvented.

That's the beauty of the R5000 mod; it captures the virgin transport stream from the chip before the DRM is applied, so you don't have to circumvent a copy protection mechanism (and thus, you don't violate the DMCA).

If I were a betting man, I'd bet a bunch of money that's exactly why they released the VIP-211k, in order to bypass that DMCA loophole.

As for violating your "terms of service", are they serious?

Anyway, it's a shame they are so stubborn about it.

-Wes
post #12 of 40
Does this code work:

http://code.google.com/p/r5000-for-linux/source/browse/trunk/src/tools/r5ktest.c

currently? Supporting a new recorder for jflicks is trivial if there is a command line program to write video to the file system. It's how I use my HDHomerun devices now and it works great.
post #13 of 40
Thread Starter 
Exactly Waldo. By definition we have to be subscribers to Dish to get the transport stream decrypted, and we are only recording the result of that. Another beauty of the R5000 is that we are not decompressing and decoding then reencoding and recompressing, as with the HD-PVR. We are recording the pure digital transport stream as God intended, compressed by Dish's $50k compression engines so no loss of video quality, and digital perfect color. What a great system this is. I've told ppl everywhere about it for years, but everyone is frightened of the $250 cost and applying the patch. We are so dependent on this patch to MythTV.

And the problem with the ViP211 was that the computer bus was exposed as traces on the circuitboard, so we could tap into them. No Dish receiver since has done this, including the 211k; they all have all that within a SoC for exactly this reason.

djb yes rktest does work, if you have an R5000 kit installed. But you can only install it in certain receivers.
post #14 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldo22 View Post

Don't bother asking at Myth.
I read the old trac ticket and that says plenty about how they feel.
http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/4752
They are really being unreasonable about it. There is no DMCA violation, because the copy-protection is NOT being circumvented.
That's the beauty of the R5000 mod; it captures the virgin transport stream from the chip before the DRM is applied, so you don't have to circumvent a copy protection mechanism (and thus, you don't violate the DMCA).
If I were a betting man, I'd bet a bunch of money that's exactly why they released the VIP-211k, in order to bypass that DMCA loophole.
As for violating your "terms of service", are they serious?
Anyway, it's a shame they are so stubborn about it.
-Wes

The "Terms of Service" has nothing to do with Myth--it is the provider's ToS that matter. IANAL, but I would tend to agree that most providers would have a clause that disallows this kind of use.

Then Bill Southwell (apparently) says:
Quote:
And are you not aware that whenever Big Media doesn't like something, they always, always send a cease and desist giving plenty of time for the 'offensive' function to be removed, before any legal action is even considered?

What a bizarre statement. IOW, let's do something that we think is wrong and we'll stop when we get a court order.

Craig
post #15 of 40
Thread Starter 
You're right YANAL because there is the personal use doctrine, established by the Sony Betamax case decades ago. It allowed individuals to record shows for their personal use and for educational purposes. The DMCA was passed in 1999 by Republican Congress, bought off by big media, vastly undermining the personal use doctrine. Corrupt.

We are following the personal use doctrine, which historically allowed the tape recording of shows in the first place. Now the defeat of encryption of DIGITAL content is outlawed, whether you've paid for it or not. You do not understand that we are not defeating that encryption. We are paying for this content (which BTW used to be free OTA).

But you welcome our new big media overlords. How much corruption will you roll over for? You would pay for every song everytime you hear it? You take this out to the logical mathematical conclusion and eventually you will be paying for commercials, every step you take, every breath you breathe, etc.

Rightists these days do not understand concepts such as the Public Trust and Public Interest, which are what built the ancient civilizations. Let's all go back to the Stone Age, and hacking each other to pieces.
Edited by quantumstate - 7/24/12 at 10:20am
post #16 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by quantumstate View Post

The DMCA was passed in 1999 by Republican Congress, bought off by big media, vastly undermining the personal use doctrine. Corrupt.

And Bill Clinton signed it. So I guess it was a bipartisan screw job. biggrin.gif
post #17 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by djb61230 View Post

And Bill Clinton signed it. So I guess it was a bipartisan screw job. biggrin.gif

Yeah, let's not play Republican vs. Democrat here. They're all equally ridiculous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pvr4Craig 
The "Terms of Service" has nothing to do with Myth--it is the provider's ToS that matter.

You misunderstood me; I agree that it is probably a violation of the providers' ToS to "modify the box" in any way. (However, I OWN this box. It is mine to do with as I wish, as long as I don't violate any laws, like the DMCA).

What I meant was, the Myth Devs don't want to apply the patch because it may violate the provider's ToS??? When I said "are they serious?" I meant that the ToS is an agreement between me and my provider, and has nothing to do with Myth, and so if it is not illegal or immoral why do the Myth Devs care?

As long as they're not actually violating the DMCA, it shouldn't be a problem. I think it's ridiculous that they claim to be worried about helping someone violate their Terms of Service.

Is DeCSS part of the Myth Codebase? (maybe not, I'm not sure) Does that not violate the DMCA? How about libAV or libffmpeg? Don't those have patent implications?

You see what I mean.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Southwell View Post

And are you not aware that whenever Big Media doesn't like something, they always, always send a cease and desist giving plenty of time for the 'offensive' function to be removed, before any legal action is even considered?
Yeah, that's seriously misguided. If they do feel like something's wrong, doing it anyway and waiting for a cease-and-desist is foolish. I just disagree with them that it's wrong, immoral, or illegal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by quantumstate 
every step you take
Nice work, now avsforum has to pay royalties to Sting. tongue.gif
post #18 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by quantumstate View Post

... personal use doctrine ... Corrupt. ... We are paying for this content (which BTW used to be free OTA).
But you welcome our new big media overlords. How much corruption will you roll over for? ...

When you sign up for a service, it comes with a set of terms and conditions. If you don't like those terms and conditions, don't sign up. If you do sign up, you have no moral or legal grounds to circumvent or contravene those terms and conditions. All the rest is just hand-waving.

Craig
post #19 of 40
Thread Starter 
Remember Craig, you can not understand the personal use doctrine or the reasons for it. These are overarching.

In a sane world you can not sign away a Right. (not to say that this is a sane world)

Let's try this: Dish Network says it's OK to record shows using their DVR, right? Even skip commercials, in fact the new Hopper automatically skips commercials like Myth does! Well, I would like to have TV. There is no longer a choice for free TV, practically speaking, so I am forced to turn to Dish, Direct, or Comcast. They all offer the same service and they all charge for it, so it's not a question of having a choice. I HAVE to use one of them if I want TV.

This means we have an oligopoly, effectively a monopoly. A monopoly means vastly differing levels of bargaining power between buyer and seller, the buyer being at an extreme disadvantage. And this means the seller can impose any terms that he can get away with. In practice we have seen over and over that when one raises their prices or starts charging for service calls, service contracts, equipment, etc, that all the others -always- follow suit.

Does this sound like a Free Market to you? Do you think that you can line out clauses in their contracts that you don't like? Why do you think not Craig? The reason is because you are at a vast disadvantage in the bargaining equation. Why else would it be that they allow you to record with their recorder... but not yours? And that you can skip commercials with theirs, but not yours? Because it is in their commercial interest to force this upon you, and you have no choice but to accept these extremely asymmetric terms. Didn't you like to make rules in your own favor on the playground? (... or didn't you think of this ...)

What happened to all those other satellite and HD companies we used to have, do ya think? If you actually research it the answer is they were crushed by the Big Three. The Strong are very adverse to competition. The Strong use their strength to -crush- the Weak, not compete. Why don't you know this?

Maybe I'm wasting my time because you seem uneducated.
Edited by quantumstate - 7/25/12 at 10:14am
post #20 of 40
easy quantumstate,

I know where you're coming from, but Craig seems to be playing devil's advocate (or flame-baiting you...).

I understand the passion behind this.

You're thinking about the public domain, and about who "owns" our cultural creations.

Craig's talking about abiding by the Terms of Service.

The Sony Betamax vs. Universal case established the right to "time-shift" and "space-shift" content, but now we can't do that the way we want to without breaching some Terms of Service document we've never seen, or violating the 1998 DMCA.

The real problem here is with the content owners, not DirecTV or Dish or Time-Warner or Comcast. They won't allow the cable/Sat companies to distribute that content without locking it down hard.

I'm sure that they insisted that Dish phase-out the VIP-211 when they discovered the exposed-trace loophole.

What we need is for Congress to pass a specific exemption to the DMCA to allow circumvention in order to make fair-use of content. That would effectively castrate the DMCA, but that's exactly what should happen. Instead of preventing everyone from being able to do anything with content, everyone would be able to do everything with content, and they'd have to prosecute those who unlawfully violate copyright. It's a paradigm shift. Trust people first, and prosecute/sue those that break the law, instead of preventing folks from making lawful use of content.

That would prevent people like the MythTV devs from having to worry about allowing people to circumvent DRM, because apps like MythTV have "significant non-infringing use" and it's primary purpose is to time-shift and space-shift, not piracy.

Anyway, let's work on compiling this patch.

-Wes
post #21 of 40
The Dish Network commercial skipping service is limited to its Primetime Anytime service. The Hopper DVR records the primetime block of ABC, FOX, NBC & CBS each night and stores it on the hard disk of the DVR for 8 days after which the DVR automatically deletes them. The skipping service requires the user to press a button each time a block of commercials are reached. Only programs recorded in this manner have the commercial skipping feature.

It's my guess that Dish is using the out of band signaling system used for local commercial insertion to establish where these commercial breaks occur within a program and then inserts the information into the recording. (or something similar where they know the commercial timing schedule beforehand) If this is the case, it is significantly different from MythTV and this is where the commercial networks might have a case.
Edited by blackcat6 - 7/26/12 at 2:55am
post #22 of 40
Thread Starter 
Understand Waldo, but I was trying to point out a key aspect of our current system that many do not recognize. We do not have a free market. When things are outlawed not because they are wrong, but because of corruption --IOW finding for corporate interests in opposition to Public interests-- then the system loses merit and does not deserve Public support except from the mindless. When our choices are reduced from many regional business to a few mega-corporations, we have all the ills of a monopoly. Many of us learned these lessons decades ago and enacted the Sherman Antitrust Act, but then many others do not know their history.

Changing the DMCA and subsequent laws actually written by the corporations themselves is not going to happen. Congress is bought and sold. Not until there are much bigger changes. So we just do with what we have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcat6 View Post

The Dish Network commercial skipping service is limited to its Primetime Anytime service. The Hopper DVR records the primetime block of ABC, FOX, NBC & CBS each night and stores it on the hard disk of the DVR for 8 days after which the DVR automatically deletes them. The skipping service requires the user to press a button each time a block of commercials are reached. Only programs recorded in this manner have the commercial skipping feature.
Correct. So?

Hopper is the second instance of a major product (Replay was the first), and the third instance of a commercial product (Sage is the other) which allows automatic commercial skipping. From experience I can tell you that for the Myth devs it's not actually about legal merit or hazard. It is just a political issue based in emotion. Well fortunately we've had a few talented souls who can make the R5000 work in Myth, and we can enjoy the benefits anyway.
post #23 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by quantumstate View Post

Remember Craig, you can not understand the personal use doctrine or the reasons for it. These are overarching.
In a sane world you can not sign away a Right. (not to say that this is a sane world)
Let's try this: Dish Network says it's OK to record shows using their DVR, right? Even skip commercials, in fact the new Hopper automatically skips commercials like Myth does! Well, I would like to have TV. There is no longer a choice for free TV, practically speaking, so I am forced to turn to Dish, Direct, or Comcast. They all offer the same service and they all charge for it, so it's not a question of having a choice. I HAVE to use one of them if I want TV.
This means we have an oligopoly, effectively a monopoly. A monopoly means vastly differing levels of bargaining power between buyer and seller, the buyer being at an extreme disadvantage. And this means the seller can impose any terms that he can get away with. In practice we have seen over and over that when one raises their prices or starts charging for service calls, service contracts, equipment, etc, that all the others -always- follow suit.
Does this sound like a Free Market to you? Do you think that you can line out clauses in their contracts that you don't like? Why do you think not Craig? The reason is because you are at a vast disadvantage in the bargaining equation. Why else would it be that they allow you to record with their recorder... but not yours? And that you can skip commercials with theirs, but not yours? Because it is in their commercial interest to force this upon you, and you have no choice but to accept these extremely asymmetric terms. Didn't you like to make rules in your own favor on the playground? (... or didn't you think of this ...)
What happened to all those other satellite and HD companies we used to have, do ya think? If you actually research it the answer is they were crushed by the Big Three. The Strong are very adverse to competition. The Strong use their strength to -crush- the Weak, not compete. Why don't you know this?
Maybe I'm wasting my time because you seem uneducated.

What a load of bull pucks! You say "There is no longer a choice for free TV, practically speaking, so I am forced to turn to Dish, Direct, or Comcast." First, you seem to be in an OTA-rich location:

From http://yourfreedtv.com/Seattle/

Free Seattle/Tacoma Area HDTV Channels

Station Channel RF Channel Network
KOMODT 4.1 38 ABC
KINGDT 5.1 48 NBC
KINGDT2 5.2 48 NBC
KIRODT 7.1 39 CBS
KIRODT2 7.2 39 Ind
KCTSDT 9.1 41 PBS
KCTSDT2 9.2 41 PBS
KCTSDT3 9.3 41 PBS
KCTSDT5 9.5 41 PBS
KSTWDT 11.1 36 CW
KVOSDT 12.1 35 Ind
KCPQDT 13.1 18 Fox
KCKADT 15.1 19 PBS
KCKADT2 15.2 19 PBS
KCKADT3 15.3 19 PBS
KONGDT 16.1 31 Ind
KONGDT2 16.2 31 Ind
KTBWDT 20.1 14 Ind
KMYQDT 22.1 25 MyN
KMYQDT2 22.2 25 Ind
KBCBDT 24.1 19 Ind
KBTCDT 28.1 27 PBS
KBTCDT2 28.2 27 PBS
KBTCDT3 28.3 27 PBS
KWPXDT 33.1 32 i
KWPXDT2 33.2 32 Ind
KWPXDT3 33.3 32 Ind
KHCVDT 45.1 44 Ind
KHCVDT3 45.3 44 Ind
KHCVDT3 45.3 44 Ind
KHCVDT4 45.4 44 Ind
KUNSDT 51.1 50 USI
KWDKDT 56.1 42 Ind

Next, you say " I HAVE to use one of them if I want TV. " No you don't don't--you can buy or rent programming online or on DVD. Or go without!! If you want to hurt The Big Three, stop paying them. Convince lots of people to do it and they'll be forced to change their services to meet the needs of the people they want to sell to.

Clearly, you don't care about violating the ToS that you've agreed to. Fine. But then, for instance, you'll won't be able to complain if a company sells a product containing GPL code. After all, if you can set aside terms you don't care for, they should be able to do the same. No?

Craig
post #24 of 40
Thread Starter 
Just being loud and abrasive, doesn't make you more convincing Craig. Neither does doubling up channels.

You can't even splutter to address the larger issues I raise, and they probably frighten the Hell out of you.

Have you actually watched OTA lately? Answer this honestly to yourself.
I have, and there is almost nothing substantive or of any value. Exceptions would be Nova and Frontline, but two shows a week doesn't do it. Maybe your kind of show is Family Guy or Married With Children...

Craig you are so propagandized that it's no use discussing this further. You defend the rights of the Strong in opposition to the Public interest, which is against your own best interests unless you are the CEO of Dish. Always amusing to see someone vociferously advocate against their own self interests, in fealtal support of mega-corporations. As you strive to cut taxes for the wealthy, your primary and secondary schools will continue to turn out third-rate pupils with limited opportunities, while you enjoy the satisfaction of making it on your own without health care when a catastrophic illness bankrupts your family.

Your agricultural universities will continue issuing Ph.D.s in football, and bogus Protestant Evangelical and Fundamentalist theology, and how to jerk off a bull safely. Your children will learn to borrow enough money to erect chicken houses so that they, like you, can take custody -- not possession, but custody -- of Tyson's chicks, feed them, rear them, assume losses from those that fail to thrive, and in the end earn just enough money to service their endless debt, and realize a profit of perhaps $12K a year. Your bank thanks you; Tyson thanks you; and I thank you.

The multinational corporations that hold you in bondage remain free to profit off your sweat nearly tax free, while their overpaid senior execs continue to pay a pittance in personal income tax. What we wanted for you would have been far better than that which you, in your pride, demanded for yourself. We will come out no worse for wear, although you will come out very much diminished, deeper in debt, and less able to improve your circumstances by your own powers. But because you wish to be flattered more than helped, you will be grateful for your a__ f___ing from the corporate elite that is laughing behind your back today.

So you are just going to have to deal with the fact that I am recording all the content that I want, in pure digital with no translation and in the highest resolution possible, and automatically skipping all commercials. Deal with it. Presumably "Pvr4Craig" is not PVRing anything?
Edited by quantumstate - 7/26/12 at 12:17pm
post #25 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by quantumstate View Post

Just being loud and abrasive, doesn't make you more convincing Craig. Neither does doubling up channels.
You can't even splutter to address the larger issues I raise, and they probably frighten the Hell out of you.
Have you actually watched OTA lately? Answer this honestly to yourself.
I have, and there is almost nothing substantive or of any value. Exceptions would be Nova and Frontline, but two shows a week doesn't do it. Maybe your kind of show is Family Guy or Married With Children...
Craig you are so propagandized that it's no use discussing this further. You defend the rights of the Strong in opposition to the Public interest, which is against your own best interests unless you are the CEO of Dish. Always amusing to see someone vociferously advocate against their own self interests, in fealtal support of mega-corporations. As you strive to cut taxes for the wealthy, your primary and secondary schools will continue to turn out third-rate pupils with limited opportunities, while you enjoy the satisfaction of making it on your own without health care when a catastrophic illness bankrupts your family.
Your agricultural universities will continue issuing Ph.D.s in football, and bogus Protestant Evangelical and Fundamentalist theology, and how to jerk off a bull safely. Your children will learn to borrow enough money to erect chicken houses so that they, like you, can take custody -- not possession, but custody -- of Tyson's chicks, feed them, rear them, assume losses from those that fail to thrive, and in the end earn just enough money to service their endless debt, and realize a profit of perhaps $12K a year. Your bank thanks you; Tyson thanks you; and I thank you.
The multinational corporations that hold you in bondage remain free to profit off your sweat nearly tax free, while their overpaid senior execs continue to pay a pittance in personal income tax. What we wanted for you would have been far better than that which you, in your pride, demanded for yourself. We will come out no worse for wear, although you will come out very much diminished, deeper in debt, and less able to improve your circumstances by your own powers. But because you wish to be flattered more than helped, you will be grateful for your a__ f___ing from the corporate elite that is laughing behind your back today.
So you are just going to have to deal with the fact that I am recording all the content that I want, in pure digital with no translation and in the highest resolution possible, and automatically skipping all commercials. Deal with it. Presumably "Pvr4Craig" is not PVRing anything?


Wow dude, chill out. Look I do agree with you on some of your points, especially on politicians being owned by big money interests. But remember big business isn't the only group throwing a lot of money around. There are also unions and "charity" organizations buying politicians too. And honestly, watching tv is not a right. And what makes you the moral judge when it comes to peoples beliefs? I'm not only against big business, but I'm also against big government and big unions too. I don't see you critizising them. ALL LARGE ORGANIZATIONS ARE CORRUPT. It's the nature of being large.
post #26 of 40
Thread Starter 
Hasn't always been so. After WWII we had Reasonable regulation, to rein in avariciousness and to prevent mega-corporations, and face it it was those years that made America prosperous and a superpower. Gone out the window now because these "outdated" regulations were overridden. Government has a function, and as long as it performs that function (reasonable regulation) it serves the Public interest. Ours doesn't anymore; the SEC can't control the stock market, the FDA can't protect our food, the IRS fired 80% of their tax lawyers... the reason is they've been starved from within.

Many blindly criticize "Big Government" because Reagan did, but Reagan actually presided over a 40% INCREASE in the federal payroll, LOL. And please don't think that all unions combined have even 1/10,000th of the resources of large corporations. Unions also developed for a good reason BTW; to balance the abuses of powerful corporations, if you look at it rationally. Workers are in a very asymmetrical bargaining position, and that matters in an abusive organization, until they join together.

Rightists think that cutting taxes for mega-corporations, creates jobs. Well look at it -- it hasn't worked for ten years! Crazy to keep doing it. Stop lying! They actually passed tax incentives in 2001 to encourage job outsourcing to India and China! WTF? But that's what they did. Face it.

Anyway, I'm chillin', studying for the PMP. Just mocking the heavily propagandized.
post #27 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhufnagel View Post

...There are also unions and "charity" organizations buying politicians too....
...I'm not only against big business, but I'm also against big government and big unions too...
And one very big one that you missed: Church and religious institutions. They need to start paying taxes too.

You have to stop believing what the Republicans say about unions. Like their name says, they are a union of people, in this case working people. In many ways they resemble our own government, they join together and elect their leaders. When Republicans spread lies about the "Big Union Bosses", you should know that this is a big pile of BS. Unions actually are responsible for people having 8 hour work days/40 hour weeks, health insurance, paid vacations, paid holidays and pension plans. With the demise of Unions, these are fading too. The Unions actually care about the middle class working people, because that is what Unions mostly consist of. Do you think that the "Big Corporate Bosses" (who sent our jobs overseas for bigger profits) actually care about us?
post #28 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pvr4Craig View Post

Clearly, you don't care about violating the ToS that you've agreed to. Fine. But then, for instance, you'll won't be able to complain if a company sells a product containing GPL code. After all, if you can set aside terms you don't care for, they should be able to do the same. No?
Craig

Well, not exactly. You are allowed to sell products with GPL code, you just have to distribute the source along with the product. Most people don't do this, because why would you buy something if you can simply download the source code and compile it yourself for free? Well, maybe you can't compile code. If someone builds a product and violates the GPL by not releasing their sources, they are violating the copyright of the original author of the code.

It's not the same with breaching terms of service; if you breach ToS, they have the right to terminate your service, but have no legal recourse whatsoever.

You haven't broken the law by breaching the ToS.

The problem with these ToSes is that they are written specifically to deny you the right to time-shift and space-shift in the way that you choose, a use that is explicitly considered to be fair-use by the US Supreme court (don't know about Canada).

I don't pirate their content, but I have an R5000-HD mod (to hardware that I own, by the way) in order to exercise my fair-use rights over content that I have legally subscribed to.

Without it, I am limited to accepting their control over what I can and can't record, which is control that is not granted to them by copyright law.

There's no reason to bring politics and religion into it, though wink.gif
post #29 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by quantumstate View Post

Just being loud and abrasive, doesn't make you more convincing [blah blah blah]

Whatever you're smoking, you need to cut down! wink.gif

Yes, I watched OTA last night and I will again tonight--recorded with Myth via an HDHomerun--part of the reason I chose this system is that it _is_ on-side.

As for the rest of your diatribe, please don't let me keep you from rejoining the Occupy group. You just keep rationalizing that the big faceless corporations deserve to be screwed--even though they're ultimately owned by regular people. Not sure you're one of those! wink.gif

Craig
post #30 of 40
Thread Starter 
Nice. Totally predictable Hate.

I know you can't understand Craig. wink.gif
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