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Marantz SR7007 AV Receiver Owner's Thread - Page 5

post #121 of 855
Speakers at 115dB? What's with that?

I'm running a SR5007 and I'm happy to try to answer any questions regarding the SR5007.

-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 10/2/12 at 6:00pm
post #122 of 855
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinebaron View Post

..... Other observations:
On my 5007 running at 7.2, I could never imagine running it at full volume with Audyssey setup, reaching 120dbs plus at less than 3/4 volume. SR7007, while driving the 500-600watts rms/channel XR-5 amp, I turned the SR7007 up to maximum volume which stopped at the 95 scale and I don't think it was anywhere near 110db plus; hence only attaining a little more than half XR-5 rated output (perceived per bar graph display on XR-5) .....

FWIW,

When I was exploring the GUI on my SR7007, I found where I could adjust the input signal level. I tried that once by increasing the input level from 0.0 to something like +3.0 and that by itself did increase the volume. I have not taken the time to run Audyssey yet.

I'm wondering if there could be an issue with the SR7007 having enough output voltage to drive the XR-5. Seem to recall reading that some receivers cannot output the same line level voltage as a separate PrePro.

Thanks
Bruce
post #123 of 855
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceOmega View Post

FWIW,
When I was exploring the GUI on my SR7007, I found where I could adjust the input signal level. I tried that once by increasing the input level from 0.0 to something like +3.0 and that by itself did increase the volume. I have not taken the time to run Audyssey yet.
I'm wondering if there could be an issue with the SR7007 having enough output voltage to drive the XR-5. Seem to recall reading that some receivers cannot output the same line level voltage as a separate PrePro.
Thanks
Bruce

That is exactly what I ended up doing to increase output of SR7007. My Onkyo 5007 was delivered (repaired) on Tuesday, I rigged it up (in 7.2 fashion), ran Audyssey MultEQ XT setup with 5 locations last night, and my room is again full of the natural and volumunous sound, I was used to, without having to boost individual signal levels. The SR7007 is going back this weekend; I realize this is an SR7007 thread and will not bash or criticise it however I definitely prefer the Onkyo sound, now with the latest firmware, is THX Ultra 2. This evening I'll connect the XR-5 to my Onkyo for a comparison.
post #124 of 855
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceOmega View Post

FWIW,
When I was exploring the GUI on my SR7007, I found where I could adjust the input signal level. I tried that once by increasing the input level from 0.0 to something like +3.0 and that by itself did increase the volume. I have not taken the time to run Audyssey yet.

Note that increasing the Source Level volume will in turn decrease the maximum master AVR volume.
post #125 of 855
after reading all the posts i decided to replace my old pioneer vsx1016txv with marantz 7007.
after all joy come from enjoyment.
presently using orb speakers, i may replace them with my waveforms and incorporate the bryston 3 chanel preamps and power amps for the front speakers.
any suggestion on how to incorporate them?
post #126 of 855
drdr,

Without knowing the exact model numbers of your Bryston equipment and how you're using them, I'd suggest eliminating the preamps. They're redundant once you have the receiver: connect your input devices (CD, phono turntable, etc) directly to the SR7007. The Bryston amps can be connected to appropriate preamp outputs on the Marantz receiver for driving some of the speakers if you want.
post #127 of 855
thanks
I have a BP 25 preamp, 10B crossover, 5BST power amps x2, waveform m17
post #128 of 855
The SR7007 does have some technical drawbacks. The phono input is limited to one of the two types of pickup (I don't recall which), so you might still need a phono preamp. Personally, I'm somewhat annoyed that this year's receivers all seem to have dropped HDCD decoding.

If you find that you prefer using your existing preamp for two-channel audio, one possible configuration (which you might already be using with the Pioneer) is to connect the receiver's front left and right preamp outputs to one of the preamp's inputs. Since the preamp doesn't include a multichannel bypass, you'd have to make a note of where you have the preamp's volume control set when you run the receiver's room equalization calibration, and always set it at that level when listening to multichannel audio. Other members of your household might object to this complication, though.
post #129 of 855
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

The phono input is limited to one of the two types of pickup (I don't recall which), so you might still need a phono preamp.

More than 99.999999% certainty it's moving magnet wink.gif No A/V receiver made ever had a moving coil input smile.gif
post #130 of 855
thanks
I shall experiment and see which way to go to use the Bryston preamp or to bypass it. have to use the crossover for the m17 either way, phono is sota saphire with andane FG V
post #131 of 855
I'm considering replacing a Yamaha RX-A2020 with the SR7007. There seems to be some concern for what impedances the 7007 will handle. I have Paradign Studio 100's which are basically 4 ohm speakers. Will I have any issue with the 7007 driving these?

Also, are the HDMI outputs pass through?

Thanks....
post #132 of 855
The Marantz AVR models (as well as Denon AVRs) can handle 4-ohm speakers at average volumes of -20db generally without issue, although may struggle with reference level volume (0db). Yes, all the Marantz 2013 models support HDMI Standby pass through.
post #133 of 855
Hi guys,
As I am closing in the purchase of the BW CM series 5.1 set I really need your help in determining would SR7007 or 6007 cope with the BWs

Main infos are:
- B&W set - Cm8/Cm1/CmC/Asw10cm
- Room - 20x16x8 ft or 6x5x2.4m
- Purpose - music/movies 50/50
- Volume capacity usage - max 40-50%.

Would these two Marantz AVRs cover my needs which are more quality rather than quantity oriented i.e. pureness vs. loudness

I almost went for a Yamaha a2010 or a3010(caouse of the dropping prices), but the reviews and the matching (warm and musical sound) with B&W has really raised my interest for Marantz.

I would really appreciate your feedback as I am stock in this sea of choices.
I definately do not want a bi-amp, at least for the time being.
Later on I would be happy to try that out as well since both of the models provide the opportunity to add the amp.

Many thanks in advance
MG
post #134 of 855
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

The SR7007 does have some technical drawbacks. The phono input is limited to one of the two types of pickup (I don't recall which), so you might still need a phono preamp. Personally, I'm somewhat annoyed that this year's receivers all seem to have dropped HDCD decoding.
If you find that you prefer using your existing preamp for two-channel audio, one possible configuration (which you might already be using with the Pioneer) is to connect the receiver's front left and right preamp outputs to one of the preamp's inputs. Since the preamp doesn't include a multichannel bypass, you'd have to make a note of where you have the preamp's volume control set when you run the receiver's room equalization calibration, and always set it at that level when listening to multichannel audio. Other members of your household might object to this complication, though.

Hi Selden,
I had some problems not receiving the picture on the TV only the audio.
After some research I found out that HDCD decoding is one of the main reasons causing HDMI handshake problems. So maybe the negatives prevailed over the positives of the HDCD function - therefore it got removed.

Cheers
MG
post #135 of 855
mgida,

I think you're confusing two acronyms:

HDCD = High Definition Compatible Digital -- it's a way to transparently encode 20 bit audio on standard 16 bit CDs. It has nothing to do with HDMI or HDCP. It works fine in my AV8003 when playing CDs over HDMI from my Sony S590 BD player. My guess is that Microsoft (which bought the technology in 2000) is charging outrageous licensing fees. I'm hoping it'll be available in the AV8801.

HDCP = High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection, which is a royal pain in the HDMI. *ahem*
post #136 of 855
Hi Selden..my bad. I did mix the acronyms and I reacted promptly as this HDCP s..t used to make me go crazy.
At the end I just pluged in my sat dish directly to my TV set i.e. the CI interface, and removed the sat/receiver completely.


Cheers
MG
post #137 of 855
Why is it that Marantz still doesn't have Audyssey MultEQ XT32!!! Even Onkyo TX-NR818 has it in addition to Audyssey DSX enabled for Heights and Wides.

http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=TX-NR818&class=Receiver&p=i

Also not to add any fuel to the fire, I will just say that Denon and Marantz use all the same engineering just different packaging.

-- Oct 17 2012 18:45 --

I just picked up the phone and called D&M Customer Service in Canada at spoke to a rep who confirmed the units are the exact same

I asked about the insides and he put me on hold to confirm with Tech support that the boards, caps and transistors used for repairs are identical as well. As for my question with the insides he put me on hold to speak to a tech. When he came back on the line he said the tech said the parts are interchangeable when doing a repair the caps and boards are all in the same bins. They are manufactured on the same line. He specifically said the difference in the 2 units are purely cosmetic (i.e the marantz uses copper chasis screws Denon steel) and the number of inputs.

Just like Integra and Onkyo smile.gif They tailor to different channels Mass retail or Custom Installer (which explains the high price and better margins) same with Denon and Marantz I will exclude the separates from Marantz
Edited by wse - 10/17/12 at 9:28am
post #138 of 855
Did the rep make mention that D&M has two distinctly different design teams for each; Denon and Marantz?

Quote:
Also not to add any fuel to the fire,...

As you add fuel to the fire in your comments regarding what the Rep had to say. rolleyes.gif
post #139 of 855
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Why is it that Marantz still doesn't have Audyssey MultEQ XT32!!!

You're not likely to see XT32 in a 700X model until it's also featured on the 331XCI model as well. Also note that XT32 is expected to be on the new Marantz 8801 to be released at the end of the year.
post #140 of 855
The Marantz also has HDAM for sound and the Denon doesnt.
post #141 of 855
A brief history of HDAM is available at http://www.dutchaudioclassics.nl/history_of_hdam_module/
(I don't know how accurate it is.)

While it might be unique to Marantz, it is not at all obvious that it makes any measurable, let alone audible, difference to the sound in modern equipment. Oh, well.
post #142 of 855
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgida View Post

Hi guys,
As I am closing in the purchase of the BW CM series 5.1 set I really need your help in determining would SR7007 or 6007 cope with the BWs
Main infos are:
- B&W set - Cm8/Cm1/CmC/Asw10cm
- Room - 20x16x8 ft or 6x5x2.4m
- Purpose - music/movies 50/50
- Volume capacity usage - max 40-50%.

Would these two Marantz AVRs cover my needs which are more quality rather than quantity oriented i.e. pureness vs. loudness

I almost went for a Yamaha a2010 or a3010(caouse of the dropping prices), but the reviews and the matching (warm and musical sound) with B&W has really raised my interest for Marantz.

I would really appreciate your feedback as I am stock in this sea of choices.
I definately do not want a bi-amp, at least for the time being.
Later on I would be happy to try that out as well since both of the models provide the opportunity to add the amp.
Many thanks in advance
MG

I have already ordered the SR7007 so please at least do not write anything negative now..smile.gif

Cheers
MG
post #143 of 855
Regarding Marantz and the SR series, there's nothing bad to post. I have the SR5007 and I'm as happy as a clam in a tide zone.

As to the question regarding the SR7007 and the B&W CM8's, they'll work fine for music but are anemic for Home Theater. Pick one and let the other fall where it may. You can't have both. Build your system around Home Theater or build your system around Music. Pick one and go from there. You can't say, I want 50/50 as in this case, 50/50 doesn't play and get along well with each other. Do you want beauty in sound (music) or do you want the beast to come out and rattle the dishes in the kitchen; Home Theater sound track? Do you want style and elegance (music) or to you want raw, rip your guts out power; Home Theater? You can't have both. Do you want a fine, well aged and respected wine with your extra large, on ice prawns, dipped in a Dijon mustard sauce (music) or do you want some kick butt bourbon, poured straight to go with your fast, over very high heat, grilled, bone-in, rib-eye, eaten after some way too loud music, back slapping good company and beer; Home Theater?

What's it going be?

PS, according to the B&W web site, the B&W CM8's are power limited to max, 150w. In my opinion, that's like totally unacceptable for the purpose of Home Theater, especially if one plans to add an outboard Amp. FWIW, FYI, a decent set of Klipsch surrounds are spec'd to 150w continuous/600w peak. If serious about Home Theater use, allow me to recommend reconsidering your choice of basing your sound reproduction system around CM8's.

If one wants to know what I'm posting about, they should check out the recent Denzel Washington movie, "Unstoppable." Now that's a Home Theater movie sound track that's meant to be played at THX reference levels and is not a sound track meant to be reproduced by anemic speakers. Systems designed to reproduce this type of dynamics, are not meant for music. And you know, once your system is set up and you've consumed the prawns and wine, you're going want to crank the volume. biggrin.gif


-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 10/18/12 at 7:27am
post #144 of 855
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Regarding Marantz and the SR series, there's nothing bad to post.
As to the question regarding the SR7007 and the B&W CM8's, they'll work fine for music but are anemic for Home Theater. Pick one and let the other fall where it may. You can't have both. .. What's it going be?-

Well, if your system can reproduce music faithfully then movies will be perfectly fine. : My system reproduce music at orchestra levels, and I don't miss any bass when playing movies therefore I have a system that shines in both biggrin.gif

The problem with Marantz is one more time they left out Audyssey MultiEQX32 !!! Even Onkyo has it in modes that are lower in price!
post #145 of 855
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Well, if your system can reproduce music faithfully then movies will be perfectly fine. : My system reproduce music at orchestra levels, and I don't miss any bass when playing movies therefore I have a system that shines in both biggrin.gif
The problem with Marantz is one more time they left out Audyssey MultiEQX32 !!! Even Onkyo has it in modes that are lower in price!

If you've ever taken a sound meter to a performing arts center, you'll find out the sound level produced at center/center is no where near THX reference levels because it's more like 75dB. If one says they're not missing any bass, then they don't know what they're missing. THX mixes are meant to rumble walls, floors and the viewer's chest with bass peaks of 115dB. The rest of the sound tracks are mixed to handle dynamics that consist of ~65dB - 105dB, low whispers to full on explosions.

With a sensitivity of 88dB and a max rating of 150w, at a main listening position of 4m, I suspect the CM8's would fry before enough power could be pumped through them to reach constant, THX reference level peaks. We all say we don't like it loud and then we get our gear installed and what's the first thing that happens? Greed. And then out comes the sound meter and the need to; let's see this system rock. Nobody ever says; want to see how underpowered my car is? Just saying, human nature is what it is.

As to not having XT32, I don't see that as a problem but I do see that as a shortcoming. A shortcoming which many AVR's have as I don't any problems with the Marantz, SR series of AVR's. If someone must have XT32, my recommendation would be to check out the Denon, 4311Ci. My point, in the end, is any movie buff happy with a system that's not THX, reference level capable? My recommendation; pick one, music or Home Theater and be happy with the other.

Beach landing: "Saving Private Ryan"

Gets loud fast.

-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 10/18/12 at 9:10am
post #146 of 855
All I am saying is that you can design a system for music that will do a great job in movies. As for music with no bass just go listen to Berlioz Symphony Fantastique or Bach Organ music

- Bach: Complete Organ Music [SACD]
http://www.sa-cd.net/showtitle/3072

- Keeping Score-Berlioz: Symphonie Fantastique, San Francisco Symphony, Michael Tilson Thomas
http://www.keepingscore.org/interactive/berlioz-symphony-fantastique

or if Classical is not your thing then there is always: "Danger: Ultra Low Bass Volume 1
https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/danger-ultra-low-bass-volume-1/id481110791

Just to name a couple

my system is design for music first and movies do just fine smile.gif

7.2 Diamond Audio & Front Projection Cinema
Audio:
Speakers:
- Bower & Wilkins 800Diamond (Left, Right)
- Bower & Wilkins 802D (Center Surround side right, Surround side left)
- Bower & Wilkins Signature 7NT in ceiling (back speakers)
Subwoofers: JL Audio Fathom F113 (2)
Amplifiers: Classé CA-M600 mono-blocks & CA-5200
Surround Sound Processor 7.1: Classé SSP-800
Universal Blu-Ray Player, DVD-A, SACD: OPPO BDP-95
Music Server: Apple TV
Super Audio CD (SACD): Sony XA777ES
Cables: Speaker cables: Kimber Kable 8TC, Interconnect: Mogami, HDMi 1.3: Belden
Accessories: Power Conditioner: Furman, Dedicated: 20amp line

VIDEO:
Projector: JVC DLA-RS35U Reference Series
Screen: Stewart Film Screen Visionary, FireHawkG3 (10 feet wide, 2:35 aspect) ratio
post #147 of 855
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Regarding Marantz and the SR series, there's nothing bad to post. I have the SR5007 and I'm as happy as a clam in a tide zone.
As to the question regarding the SR7007 and the B&W CM8's, they'll work fine for music but are anemic for Home Theater. Pick one and let the other fall where it may. You can't have both. Build your system around Home Theater or build your system around Music. Pick one and go from there. You can't say, I want 50/50 as in this case, 50/50 doesn't play and get along well with each other. Do you want beauty in sound (music) or do you want the beast to come out and rattle the dishes in the kitchen; Home Theater sound track? Do you want style and elegance (music) or to you want raw, rip your guts out power; Home Theater? You can't have both. Do you want a fine, well aged and respected wine with your extra large, on ice prawns, dipped in a Dijon mustard sauce (music) or do you want some kick butt bourbon, poured straight to go with your fast, over very high heat, grilled, bone-in, rib-eye, eaten after some way too loud music, back slapping good company and beer; Home Theater?
What's it going be?
PS, according to the B&W web site, the B&W CM8's are power limited to max, 150w. In my opinion, that's like totally unacceptable for the purpose of Home Theater, especially if one plans to add an outboard Amp. FWIW, FYI, a decent set of Klipsch surrounds are spec'd to 150w continuous/600w peak. If serious about Home Theater use, allow me to recommend reconsidering your choice of basing your sound reproduction system around CM8's.
If one wants to know what I'm posting about, they should check out the recent Denzel Washington movie, "Unstoppable." Now that's a Home Theater movie sound track that's meant to be played at THX reference levels and is not a sound track meant to be reproduced by anemic speakers. Systems designed to reproduce this type of dynamics, are not meant for music. And you know, once your system is set up and you've consumed the prawns and wine, you're going want to crank the volume. biggrin.gif
-

One hyperbollically poetic dude you are..
First of all,you must have misunderstood something, as by 50/50 I was speaking about the usage time and not the quality.
I have heard/demoed the speakers (on a Yamaha) and they were absolutely fantastic. Marantz should only be better, no?
I will place them in my living room and as a medium sized one with no personal preference of extreme volume , B&W CM8 and the rest should apparently be jawdropping in terms of both SQ and esthetics, and if they dont rumble throughout the house I have no problem. So yes, music is my priority
Nevertheless, repeatitively, I have found reviews and opinions on all types/brands of speakers, stating that ones that do good with music are equally good with surround formats of movies.
And, SR7007 is also highly regarded for its performance on movies.

So my main and only question was if SR7007/6007 would be effiecient enough for my needs (40-50% of volume) to power and integrate with the BWs.
Nevermind that now, as I already took the decision now, and based on everything I am hearing around, I am sure I am not going to regret it.

Cheers
MG
post #148 of 855
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

All I am saying is that you can design a system for music that will do a great job in movies. As for music with no bass just go listen to Berlioz Symphony Fantastique or Bach Organ music
- Bach: Complete Organ Music [SACD]

I've stated THX reference levels and I don't see conversation revolving around my conversation. To show a kindred connection, our mains are connected with Kimber, TC8 cable. biggrin.gif As to line conditioning, we're connected straight into the utility transformer. Can't get any more stable then that. biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif

As to your system, it's hard to argue with $8k worth of subs but you weren't thinking music when you bought those subs as no contemporary classical performing arts concert hall produces that much bass energy when scaled to a contemporary, open cathedral living room of 3,500 cuft. wink.gif In real terms, total, you spent how much on your system? A pair of 800 Diamonds are how much? Now you're being unintentionally insulting as I'm discussing a $2k/pair of mains and you're discussing a $24k/pair of mains and a speaker/Amp system that specs out, at or about $86k as if they're the same thing. Down here where the rest of us fiscal mortals play, we're happy if we spend $10k - $15k on the whole system, including peripherals like a Blu-ray transport and big screen TV.

And yes, I agree, based on your enviable system, there are clearly exceptions to my statement.

-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 10/18/12 at 10:46am
post #149 of 855
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgida View Post

One hyperbollically poetic dude you are..

I do try to have fun when I can. tongue.gif

Quote:
First of all,you must have misunderstood something, as by 50/50 I was speaking about the usage time and not the quality.

Yes as my assumption is, you're wanting quality at both ends of the 50/50.

Quote:
I have heard/demoed the speakers (on a Yamaha) and they were absolutely fantastic. Marantz should only be better, no?

Don't know as all of my experience is with either Denon and Marantz. I find the Marantz sound to be clean and neutral, uncolored.

Quote:
I will place them in my living room and as a medium sized one with no personal preference of extreme volume , B&W CM8 and the rest should apparently be jawdropping in terms of both SQ and esthetics, and if they dont rumble throughout the house I have no problem. So yes, music is my priority

Then you'll be very happy.

Quote:
Nevertheless, repeatitively, I have found reviews and opinions on all types/brands of speakers, stating that ones that do good with music are equally good with surround formats of movies.

Up until one gets the THX, reference level bug and then everything goes South until they've revamped their system to meet THX, reference level capabilities.

Quote:
And, SR7007 is also highly regarded for its performance on movies.

As stated, I'm running a SR5007 and have no trouble reaching THX, reference level standards but our mains are 100dB rated and the center channel is rated 99dB.

Quote:
So my main and only question was if SR7007/6007 would be effiecient enough for my needs (40-50% of volume) to power and integrate with the BWs.

Despite the verbosity of my excessive ramblings, in the simple, absolutely.

Quote:
Nevermind that now, as I already took the decision now, and based on everything I am hearing around, I am sure I am not going to regret it.

With the SR5007, I'm two steps down from the SR7007 and I've not experienced a moments of buyer's remorse. With that in mind, if you will allow me, I know you won't regret your purchase of the SR7007.

..................................................cool.gif
post #150 of 855
Pretty disappointed so far with the SR7007. Features have been dumbed down since previous Denon/Marantz models (no access to levels without test tone - levels apply universally rather than to different surround modes) - but I could live with these issues. The sound is just not great - like the amps are weak or have a strange response.

Maybe it is just meant more for as Home Theater rather than Home Audio?

I bought this amp for upgrading a music listening setup where I was using an old Onkyo A-809 that I always ran in direct mode - in the past with some old Advent Prodigy II speakers and more recently with some Sonus Faber Concertinos. I wouldn't say it was great sound, but it was quite enjoyable - the Sonus are small and I had been running an old Mirage sub with them to give them a little more bottom from around 60Hz down and it was all fine. So I got the "GREAT" idea to upgrade the setup to accommodate DVDA and SACD.

Having used Denon's in the past and having recently purchased a Marantz 1602 and a pair of B+W bookshelfs for my office, I thought the SR7007 would be the way to go as the 1602 sounds fine. I also picked up a decent REL sub to go with it.

Huge disappointment - the sound is terrible - even stereo in Pure Direct, no sub, is like a bad radio - harsh and bassy - no decent midrange or too much high-mids and not enough low-mids. I spent days moving speakers around, trying every Audyssey trick - some music sounds fine, but anything with electric guitars sounds nearly horrible no matter what.

I started thinking that maybe the Sonus Fabers just weren't up to the task and was about to start shopping speakers - but wait, no - they were fine with the Onkyo....

So I pull out an old AudioSource "Amp Two" 80 watt x 2 power amp I had bought ages ago to drive some outdoor speakers and for the hell of it, hooked it up to the pre-outs of the Marantz and drove the Sonus Fabers with that - WOW!!! Not quite as rich as the Onkyo A809, but a huge improvement. This AudioSource "Amp Two" was an inexpensive, although supposedly decent, power amp - nothing to write home about, but it simply kills the SR7007 amps.

My old Denon ARV5700 weighed a ton it seems like. Even the Onk 809 feels heavier than the SR7007 and the little amp I have driving the speakers now is low profile but not flimsy feeling. Is this the problem? Is all this modern stuff just sort of "bells and whistles" with no real guts and built too light?

I am baffled about what to do - I have about 2 weeks left to return it, but then what?

I don't mean to be absurdly picky - my reference system is a set of Meyer HD-1 powered speakers mated to a Genelec sub in a recording studio. That is spectacular sound, but I don't need that in this listening area, just something decent that can play back electric guitar as richly as it can a symphony.

Should I just forget the integrated receivers and go with components? Or do I just keep the SR7007 as a pre and get some decent amps? Or is there a decent sounding integrated receiver out there with decent amps - I don't really have any brand alliance.

This forum seems like a place where people would know this or have run into before - thanks for any help or insight.

Steve confused.gif
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