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Marantz SR7007 AV Receiver Owner's Thread - Page 8

post #211 of 852
I'm finally replacing my H/K AVR 7500, after exhausting reading of forums and reviews I decided to order SR7007. Christmas comes early since it should arrive next Tuesday eek.gif
post #212 of 852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucid Creations View Post

I'm trying to update my 7007 today, but it's been stuck for about an hour. The port hole display says EIMG 3 min and counts down to 1 then resets back to 3. after 15 min the receiver turns off then on and says update retry and starts this process all over again. It's been like this for over an hour. Does anyone know whats going on?

Did you get this resolved?

I had the same problem when I tried to do the 3 minute update. It was hung in a loop. I read the manual, did one of the tings they recommended which was to push the On/Off button for 5 seconds until the unit turned off, then watched as it turned on and tried to recover the update. Did not work even after multiple attempts. I unplugged the unit that night.

The next morning, I plugged it in and after a short bit of time it had corrected itself and the update was completed. Running fine now.

Thanks
Bruce
post #213 of 852
My understanding is that the "download firmware" option tends to be more reliable than the "check for firmware" option.
post #214 of 852
Wanted to follow up on this post. This has been a several week journey that took weeks of careful listening (in stereo) and consideration before reaching a solution.

I tried the SR7007 with another studio control room power amp 2x200 that I had in storage and it sounded really great. I don't think the amps in these modern AVRs are up to serious audio for music; replacing the built-in amps with anything reasonable is better and the better the replacement, the better the audio - easily noticeable.

So I returned the SR7007 and replaced it with a AV7701 along with an MM8077 7x150 amp. The difference in sound quality is night and day. My guess is the 7701 is exactly a 7007 with no power amps. The difference in quality is the 8077 power amp. All the richness in the electric guitars that should be there is there. All the crack and power in the snare and kick drum is there.

It might be a crude way to gauge performance, but weight must matter - when a unit with a 7ch amp weighs less that an inexpensive 2ch power-amp, there's probably going to be a sacrifice in sound quality. Seems like the older Denon units made in Japan performed better and are heavier, but lack all the HDMI and other modern tricks. To get those along with decent audio quality for music, the system has to be a reasonable challenge to lift. In other words, It needs to have a large heavy power supply - gutsy caps are a plus as well. And it has nothing to do with loudness or volume level - most of this can be heard at even modest listening levels - it is all about response.

At any rate, if anyone else has come up against this challenge, maybe this helps.

Steve
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevepow View Post

Pretty disappointed so far with the SR7007. Features have been dumbed down since previous Denon/Marantz models (no access to levels without test tone - levels apply universally rather than to different surround modes) - but I could live with these issues. The sound is just not great - like the amps are weak or have a strange response.
Maybe it is just meant more for as Home Theater rather than Home Audio?

I bought this amp for upgrading a music listening setup where I was using an old Onkyo A-809 that I always ran in direct mode - in the past with some old Advent Prodigy II speakers and more recently with some Sonus Faber Concertinos. I wouldn't say it was great sound, but it was quite enjoyable - the Sonus are small and I had been running an old Mirage sub with them to give them a little more bottom from around 60Hz down and it was all fine. So I got the "GREAT" idea to upgrade the setup to accommodate DVDA and SACD.

Having used Denon's in the past and having recently purchased a Marantz 1602 and a pair of B+W bookshelfs for my office, I thought the SR7007 would be the way to go as the 1602 sounds fine. I also picked up a decent REL sub to go with it.
Huge disappointment - the sound is terrible - even stereo in Pure Direct, no sub, is like a bad radio - harsh and bassy - no decent midrange or too much high-mids and not enough low-mids. I spent days moving speakers around, trying every Audyssey trick - some music sounds fine, but anything with electric guitars sounds nearly horrible no matter what.

I started thinking that maybe the Sonus Fabers just weren't up to the task and was about to start shopping speakers - but wait, no - they were fine with the Onkyo....
So I pull out an old AudioSource "Amp Two" 80 watt x 2 power amp I had bought ages ago to drive some outdoor speakers and for the hell of it, hooked it up to the pre-outs of the Marantz and drove the Sonus Fabers with that - WOW!!! Not quite as rich as the Onkyo A809, but a huge improvement. This AudioSource "Amp Two" was an inexpensive, although supposedly decent, power amp - nothing to write home about, but it simply kills the SR7007 amps.
My old Denon ARV5700 weighed a ton it seems like. Even the Onk 809 feels heavier than the SR7007 and the little amp I have driving the speakers now is low profile but not flimsy feeling. Is this the problem? Is all this modern stuff just sort of "bells and whistles" with no real guts and built too light?

I am baffled about what to do - I have about 2 weeks left to return it, but then what?

I don't mean to be absurdly picky - my reference system is a set of Meyer HD-1 powered speakers mated to a Genelec sub in a recording studio. That is spectacular sound, but I don't need that in this listening area, just something decent that can play back electric guitar as richly as it can a symphony.

Should I just forget the integrated receivers and go with components? Or do I just keep the SR7007 as a pre and get some decent amps? Or is there a decent sounding integrated receiver out there with decent amps - I don't really have any brand alliance.
This forum seems like a place where people would know this or have run into before - thanks for any help or insight.

Steve confused.gif
post #215 of 852
I couldn't agree more. I owned and operated a retail A/V store for over a decade, and believe the receiver heyday is by and large behind us. Maybe it's the economy, maybe the fickle demands of the consumers that want to flip units every time a new feature or format is introduced, I don't know. I remember when class D was almost a dirty word, and build quality was paramount over bells and whistles. New receivers to me sound hollow, and lifeless. Don't get me wrong, I like the latest Dolby, and DTS processing as much as the next guy but the digital amps leave a lot to be desired. You can spouts specs and quote white paper until your blue in the face, and maybe if your new to the hobby, or you are comming from a HTIB background you have a right to be pleased with the sound. I believe most who have had the chance to listen to an older style amp, tube, A, A+B etc something with ample headroom and a chassis that weighed enough to quell your buyers remorse will attest, most of the new units leave something to be desired. Installed a 7007 for a client about a month ago, and think it is a fine unit, probably one of the best new models on the market, but I am glad he is powering small efficient speakers with it. Just saying.
post #216 of 852
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevepow View Post

Wanted to follow up on this post. This has been a several week journey that took weeks of careful listening (in stereo) and consideration before reaching a solution.
I tried the SR7007 with another studio control room power amp 2x200 that I had in storage and it sounded really great. I don't think the amps in these modern AVRs are up to serious audio for music; replacing the built-in amps with anything reasonable is better and the better the replacement, the better the audio - easily noticeable.
So I returned the SR7007 and replaced it with a AV7701 along with an MM8077 7x150 amp. The difference in sound quality is night and day. My guess is the 7701 is exactly a 7007 with no power amps. The difference in quality is the 8077 power amp. All the richness in the electric guitars that should be there is there. All the crack and power in the snare and kick drum is there.
It might be a crude way to gauge performance, but weight must matter - when a unit with a 7ch amp weighs less that an inexpensive 2ch power-amp, there's probably going to be a sacrifice in sound quality. Seems like the older Denon units made in Japan performed better and are heavier, but lack all the HDMI and other modern tricks. To get those along with decent audio quality for music, the system has to be a reasonable challenge to lift. In other words, It needs to have a large heavy power supply - gutsy caps are a plus as well. And it has nothing to do with loudness or volume level - most of this can be heard at even modest listening levels - it is all about response.
At any rate, if anyone else has come up against this challenge, maybe this helps.
Steve
post #217 of 852
The sonus fabers are great speakers the marantz has a fifty dollar preamp op amps. Also the amps are not all discrete they use chip amps it sad marantz use to make good recievers. Not trying to be rude but driving concertos with a marantz 7007 is like using a dynex cd player in a hi end system the analog stages are cheap really the preamp may be 25.00 dollars worth of parts plus a cheesy r core power supply with small cheap electolytic caps. Sorry it not worthy of the fabers. Try a Pathos or primare great bang for the buck. Keep cheap home theater gear out of your two channel. Unless you have a classe ssp 75 or a ssp800 with a good multichannel amp or amps I'm using a classe omicron for fronts and one in mono for center and an Ayre v-3 for rears but thats 27k in amps and a 7 k preamp. Also plinius is awesome stuff I have a sa 100 mk3 it's incredible too.
Edited by wadia 9 - 12/17/12 at 11:02pm
post #218 of 852
^^^

baloney...
post #219 of 852
Quote:
Originally Posted by wadia 9 View Post

... I'm using a classe omicron for fronts and one in mono for center and an Ayre v-3 for rears but thats 27k in amps and a 7 k preamp. Also plinius is awesome stuff I have a sa 100 mk3 it's incredible too.

Did I understand right, you use 3 different power amps with an AVR beeing a pre amp? They probably don't have the same maximum power. I thought power amps always do their maximum, so if they are different, you would have 3 different levels of volume...And you obviously don't. How is that possible?
Can I, for example, add the 7004 stereo amp (as power amp) to the 7007's fronts and leave the rest to the 7007's power amps, considering 7004 is 70 and 7007 is 125 W/ch?
post #220 of 852
You could but to what end? Generally you only want to add an amp that is more powerful than the AVR, not less powerful.
post #221 of 852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kri View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by wadia 9 View Post

... I'm using a classe omicron for fronts and one in mono for center and an Ayre v-3 for rears but thats 27k in amps and a 7 k preamp. Also plinius is awesome stuff I have a sa 100 mk3 it's incredible too.

Did I understand right, you use 3 different power amps with an AVR beeing a pre amp? They probably don't have the same maximum power. I thought power amps always do their maximum, so if they are different, you would have 3 different levels of volume...And you obviously don't. How is that possible?
Can I, for example, add the 7004 stereo amp (as power amp) to the 7007's fronts and leave the rest to the 7007's power amps, considering 7004 is 70 and 7007 is 125 W/ch?

no, amps don't "always do their maximum"...
post #222 of 852
Different amps do sometimes have different gains. In other words, for a given voltage of input signal, different amp designs can produce different sound levels. However, Audyssey detects different sound levels and adjusts the gains so that the same input signal produces exactly the same sound level for every channel at the primary listening position. Audyssey can't tell if the difference in sound level is due to different amp gains, different speaker efficiencies or the effects of room treatments (or the lack thereof).
post #223 of 852
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

You could but to what end? Generally you only want to add an amp that is more powerful than the AVR, not less powerful.

The reason is I heard oppinions from different sides that 7004 is very audiophile, very musical amp and that power amps are not the best side of 7007. My personal expeerience confirms that said about 7004 and for 7007 I'm not sure yet, it is new and I'm still testing and experimenting. The first impressions are very good, but any improvement is always wellcome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

no, amps don't "always do their maximum"...

When, for example?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Different amps do sometimes have different gains. In other words, for a given voltage of input signal, different amp designs can produce different sound levels. However, Audyssey detects different sound levels and adjusts the gains so that the same input signal produces exactly the same sound level for every channel at the primary listening position. Audyssey can't tell if the difference in sound level is due to different amp gains, different speaker efficiencies or the effects of room treatments (or the lack thereof).

Yes, but I have analog audio oriented universal player, so I don't use HDMI/Audissey for audio, but analog mch outs/pure direct mode.
post #224 of 852
Can somebody please help me with the following problem:

I want to avoid turning on my plasma tv every time I want to listen to my music disks or files. So, I would like to be able to show player's interface on my mini lcd tv which has "video" ("composite") input only. Since my 7007 AVR has "video" ("composite") too, I thought there will be no problem. But, I can't get the picture on my mini lcd. Is it the resolution? The mini has 1440x234 only, but wouldn't it be normal that the 7007 "expects" something like that?
post #225 of 852
The source device also needs to be connected to the AVR with a composite video cable.
post #226 of 852
@kri...

amps virtually NEVER do their "maximum"... think about what you are asking for a minute...

won't comment on the rest, other than to suggest you might want to "unlearn" some of the things you have "learned"...,
post #227 of 852
Kri,

How much power is used by an amp depends on the circuit design.

Class A amplifier designs dissipate the same amount of power at all times, no matter what the input signal is.
(This circuit design designation has nothing to do with the "class A" ratings Stereophile uses in their reviews.)

Class A/B and Class D amplifier designs only dissipate the maximum power when they're driven with the maximum input signal and thus producing the maximum audio volume. Class A/B amps are the most common, and most of the time movies and music are played at sound levels which are far below the maximum levels that amps can provide.

If your Universal player has an HDMI output and your receiver or pre/pro has HDMI inputs, then you owe it to yourself to experience the difference in the quality of the sound when calibrated room equalization is applied to HDMI audio by the processor. In most cases, the improvement is very noticeable. Room EQ can compensate for defects in your listening envionment but can't be applied to multi-channel analog audio. Please remember that the multichannel audio player outputs and receiver inputs originally were intended to make up for older receivers not having decoders for newer audio formats at a time when room EQ simply wasn't possible. The improvement in sound provided by the processor's EQ software usually is substantially more than the subtle audio differences resulting from different DAC designs.

If you're using a processor with Audyssey, be sure to follow the instructions provided in the FAQ and "101" documents provided at the beginning of the dedicated Audyssey thread at http://www.avsforum.com/t/795421/official-audyssey-thread-faq-in-post-1 The instructions provided by most receiver and pre/pro manufacturers are incomplete. I suspect many people who dislike the results of using Audyssey haven't followed those recommendations, although defective microphones certainly have been encountered, too. FWIW, I suspect many of the recommendations apply equally well to the other major room EQ software packages.
post #228 of 852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kri View Post

Did I understand right, you use 3 different power amps with an AVR beeing a pre amp? They probably don't have the same maximum power. I thought power amps always do their maximum, so if they are different, you would have 3 different levels of volume...And you obviously don't. How is that possible?
Can I, for example, add the 7004 stereo amp (as power amp) to the 7007's fronts and leave the rest to the 7007's power amps, considering 7004 is 70 and 7007 is 125 W/ch?

The Audio Source Amp I was using as Band-Aid was rated 80x2 and it was a big improvement over the 7007's front channels. I just let Audyssey sort out the difference in levels. And it is arguable that the 7007 can really lay down 125w/ch anyway. So yes, any decent "real" amp is probably going to help the sound. If you have one laying around, you should try it - with some music, you may not hear much difference, but find something with lots of transients like drums and electric guitar - the smack of the snare, the definition of the kick, the crunch and fullness of the guitar - it should be dead obvious.
Edited by stevepow - 12/20/12 at 4:40pm
post #229 of 852
Quote:
Originally Posted by wadia 9 View Post

The sonus fabers are great speakers the marantz has a fifty dollar preamp op amps. Also the amps are not all discrete they use chip amps it sad marantz use to make good recievers. Not trying to be rude but driving concertos with a marantz 7007 is like using a dynex cd player in a hi end system the analog stages are cheap really the preamp may be 25.00 dollars worth of parts plus a cheesy r core power supply with small cheap electolytic caps. Sorry it not worthy of the fabers. Try a Pathos or primare great bang for the buck. Keep cheap home theater gear out of your two channel. Unless you have a classe ssp 75 or a ssp800 with a good multichannel amp or amps I'm using a classe omicron for fronts and one in mono for center and an Ayre v-3 for rears but thats 27k in amps and a 7 k preamp. Also plinius is awesome stuff I have a sa 100 mk3 it's incredible too.

That may be good advice, but I think the objective there is very different. I'm not going for a pristine or "automobile priced" audio setup so much as I am a decent / fun system. More of a spending as little as possible for satisfaction rather than as much as possible. I'd worry at those prices that I'm paying for something besides the components and engineering. When the playback equipment costs more than what it would cost to make a great recording, I think I'd have to do more research to buy into that. You could put together a high quality 5 channel or more recording setup for $34+k. But it is odd to me already how the cost of good industry standard studio recording gear is much more reasonably priced than high end playback systems - $1000 cables and such nonsense that would make George Martin or Rupert Neve laugh out loud. biggrin.gif

FWIW, I have heard much nicer sounding Sonus and B&W fronts driven with essentially the same equipment I have now. The concertinos are nice, but small and were originally rears in another system I have. My next upgrade would likely be front speakers rather than more expensive amps or pres. A friend of mine has some old B&W towers that need repair - they sounded amazing - even with a consumer-grade amp, but one died. We'll fix those and try them out. Going slow with upgrades and correctly identifying the weakest link is the best approach. I can see room treatment in my future too. wink.gif

That said, I do worry that the Marantz 7701 pre-amps are not so great - just because of the more obvious corners cut on the 7007 amps, but I think they are adequate for decent sound when mated to an also decent amp and the 8077 seems decent enough.

I just picked up an Oppo BDP-105 to run into my setup using its DACs for SACD / DVDA / Sonos playback. I love it. It can also be used as a sort of makeshift pre-amp, so maybe I give that a go later to see how it sounds with the AV7701 out of the picture. That should give me a good idea whether or not the AV7701 pre is hurting my sound too much.

Steve
Edited by stevepow - 12/20/12 at 4:38pm
post #230 of 852
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

The source device also needs to be connected to the AVR with a composite video cable.

Thanks, but it seems the source device is the problem. Unfortunately, it seems it can't output composite signal the same time it outputs HDMI signal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

@kri...

amps virtually NEVER do their "maximum"... think about what you are asking for a minute...

won't comment on the rest, other than to suggest you might want to "unlearn" some of the things you have "learned"...,

Yes, I would like to unlearn things and to learn something useful from you. So far - nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevepow View Post

The Audio Source Amp I was using as Band-Aid was rated 80x2 and it was a big improvement over the 7007's front channels. I just let Audyssey sort out the difference in levels. And it is arguable that the 7007 can really lay down 125w/ch anyway. So yes, any decent "real" amp is probably going to help the sound. If you have one laying around, you should try it - with some music, you may not hear much difference, but find something with lots of transients like drums and electric guitar - the smack of the snare, the definition of the kick, the crunch and fullness of the guitar - it should be dead obvious.

Tanks, I will try it with my 2x70 audiophile amp. Only, I have an excellent analog audio oriented universal player, so with HDMI/Audissey I would loose it's great analog sound.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Kri,

How much power is used by an amp depends on the circuit design.

Class A amplifier designs dissipate the same amount of power at all times, no matter what the input signal is.
(This circuit design designation has nothing to do with the "class A" ratings Stereophile uses in their reviews.)

Class A/B and Class D amplifier designs only dissipate the maximum power when they're driven with the maximum input signal and thus producing the maximum audio volume. Class A/B amps are the most common, and most of the time movies and music are played at sound levels which are far below the maximum levels that amps can provide.

If your Universal player has an HDMI output and your receiver or pre/pro has HDMI inputs, then you owe it to yourself to experience the difference in the quality of the sound when calibrated room equalization is applied to HDMI audio by the processor. In most cases, the improvement is very noticeable. Room EQ can compensate for defects in your listening envionment but can't be applied to multi-channel analog audio. Please remember that the multichannel audio player outputs and receiver inputs originally were intended to make up for older receivers not having decoders for newer audio formats at a time when room EQ simply wasn't possible. The improvement in sound provided by the processor's EQ software usually is substantially more than the subtle audio differences resulting from different DAC designs.

If you're using a processor with Audyssey, be sure to follow the instructions provided in the FAQ and "101" documents provided at the beginning of the dedicated Audyssey thread at http://www.avsforum.com/t/795421/official-audyssey-thread-faq-in-post-1 The instructions provided by most receiver and pre/pro manufacturers are incomplete. I suspect many people who dislike the results of using Audyssey haven't followed those recommendations, although defective microphones certainly have been encountered, too. FWIW, I suspect many of the recommendations apply equally well to the other major room EQ software packages.

Tanks for your very detailed explanation. I will add my 2x70 audiophile amp and repeat the Audissey meassurement. Only, I would rather keep the great analog sound of my excellent analog audio oriented universal player.
post #231 of 852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kri View Post

Did I understand right, you use 3 different power amps with an AVR beeing a pre amp? They probably don't have the same maximum power. I thought power amps always do their maximum, so if they are different, you would have 3 different levels of volume...And you obviously don't. How is that possible?
Can I, for example, add the 7004 stereo amp (as power amp) to the 7007's fronts and leave the rest to the 7007's power amps, considering 7004 is 70 and 7007 is 125 W/ch?
post #232 of 852
Really guys you must not understand how a processor works. It doesn't matter auddssey usees a mic and adjust gain and delay. You can also use a db meter to check. I'm really surprised you didn't understand that. You can also use speakers with different impedance which is the same thing. Or different efficiency front could be 90 db at 1 watt center could be 86 rears could be 100 db at 1 watt doesn't matter. Shoo!!
post #233 of 852
Look at the Denon 4520 ci more power bigger power supply able to drive 4 ohms.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icon Master View Post

Just noticed that the two zone one HDMI outputs are simultaneous. That was my only issue with the prior Marantz top receiver which had dual HDMI outputs but only one could be active at time. Great upgrade Marantz!
I am saving up to buy an SR7007 asap!
post #234 of 852
Quote:
Originally Posted by wadia 9 View Post

Look at the Denon 4520 ci more power bigger power supply able to drive 4 ohms.
Marantz cannot drive 4 ohms. It is 6ohm to 8 ohms
post #235 of 852
I
Quote:
Originally Posted by wadia 9 View Post

[/quoteI I'm using an ssp -800 classe but it wouldn't matter
post #236 of 852
Quote:
Originally Posted by wadia 9 View Post

Marantz cannot drive 4 ohms. It is 6ohm to 8 ohms

Sure it can as I've been doing it with a pair of LSi15's. You just don't want to push it too hard.
post #237 of 852
Quote:
Originally Posted by wadia 9 View Post

Marantz cannot drive 4 ohms. It is 6ohm to 8 ohms

Any Denon or Marantz AVR can drive 4-ohm speakers when the volume is limited to only average volume levels.
post #238 of 852
So I had to do a hard reset of the microprocessor and the network card because of my problems with the Pandora update. The issue has now been resolved, but I noticed something strange with some of the light indicators on the lower screen of the receiver. Prior to the update I use to see two separate light indicators(above the speaker indicators) one read LFE and the other IN. After the reset I no longer see these light indicators. What I do see is a new light indicator that says OUT just to right of were it use to say IN. Any ideas?
post #239 of 852
From the factory (or after doing a reset) the Front Display - Channel icon (p. 141 OM) reads OUT to indicate to what speakers the audio from the AVR is going. You can manually change the setting to indicate the input channels being received from the source by changing this setting to IN.




Also, AFAIK, the LFE icon will only display when the AVR is receiving an audio track with a dedicated LFE signal (eg. DD/DTS 5.1).
post #240 of 852
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Any Denon or Marantz AVR can drive 4-ohm speakers when the volume is limited to only average volume levels.
and that effects headroom and dynamics which is what home theater is all about

Quote:
Originally Posted by XStanleyX View Post

Sure it can as I've been doing it with a pair of LSi15's. You just don't want to push it too hard.
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