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Marantz SR7007 AV Receiver Owner's Thread - Page 3

post #61 of 862
on topic...

other than 4k (which at this point is of no value), is there anything "we" have been able to find that would make this unit more feature rich than the 7005?
post #62 of 862
Thread Starter 
Toyota makes a couple of automobile product lines that share the same "platforms" but they have different design teams. Try driving the equivalent Toyota and Lexus and tell me there is no difference but a "few connections" and cosmetics. EXAMPLE: Toyota Camry versus Lexus ES series.

You can then see by comparison the Denon line is the Toyota and the Marantz the Lexus. A lot of manufacturers in vastly different industries use common "platforms" but the product can be vastly different even if they look alike.
post #63 of 862
^^^

drawing an analogy and hoping it holds doesn't strengthen your position...

you may "believe" what you like... some of have actually owned a cloned marantz unit (such as the av7005) and are of an inquisitive bent, and have actually put a considerable amount of effort and time into this particular topic...

vs. just looking at a nameplate and marketing literature...

in either case... back to my on-topic question... has anyone found any worthwhile reason for an av7005 owner to "upgrade"? or are we safe in recommending that people just stick with what they have?
post #64 of 862
I don't think there is enough authoritative information about the new pre/pros, except for the additional audio channels, to decide if an upgrade is otherwise worthwhile.
post #65 of 862
Well I returned the SR6007 today, I loved the sound but it went into protection everytime a big loud scene would play. I am sticking with the Anthem for now!
post #66 of 862
Long time reader, first time poster.

I am a newbie and have just started to build my first dedicated HT setup.
Everything I have purchased so far: A pair of Martin Logan Electromotion ESL
ML Motion C2 center
ML Dynamic 700 subwoofer
Marantz 7005
Monster power conditioner (can not remember which model)

I should note that nothing I have bought so far as been open, I had to leave the country right after I bought everything mad.gif

After buying the 7005, I saw that the 7007 was about to come out, so I have a 7007 on order (should be available for pick up on 8/24, I come back Sept 19). I have an agreement with the retailer when I get back to the US I can test both units and then return the one I do not want.

From what I have read the differences between the two is not much, but I really like that On-screen menu look much better and that there is an Android supported app.

As for the Denon vs Marantz debate, this the 7007 owners thread NOT whats-the-difference-between-the-two thread. rolleyes.gif
post #67 of 862
decoding bitstream to PCM is included on the 7007. It was (if I´m not mistaken) included in the SR 8002 and then they took it off from the SR 7005. Now they put it back. And that´s a nice feature.
post #68 of 862
^^^

nope, it existed on both...

the 8002 could not apply audyssey AND unpack the codecs, as it did not have enough processing power to do both...

realitically, it's a feature that "doesn't matter", as where the codec is unpacked (either the player or the avr) does not matter... one unit does not "unpack it better than the other"... it can't... by definition, the high rez codecs are lossless...
post #69 of 862
Sorry for my bad english but....

Just got home my Marantz SR6007 and have some questions.
When I ran the Audyssey set up the GUI showed only 6 positions.
According to the spec, the SR6007 MultEQ XT system that will measure 8 positions.

The manual says:

11 Repeat step 10, measuring positions 3 to 8.
When measurement of position 8 is completed, a
"Measurements finished." Message IS DISPLAYED.

But my GUI shows that said only 6 positions.

I wonder if:

- Is there a setting that specifies the number of messuring points, checked the manual and the WEB-IF but can not find one.

- Is this a bug?

- If my SR6007 only has MultEQ and MultEQ XT is not that spec and the manual states? (MultEQ - 6 points, MultEQ XT 8 points)

Have checked and there is no newer FW to install

Hope someone can help !
post #70 of 862
The number of sample points is determined by which menu you use to start the calibration. Apparently this is an intentional feature in the current generation of both Denon and Marantz receivers. To use 6 positions, use the [Setup Wizard] menu. To use 8 calibration positions, use the [Speakers - Audyssey Setup] menu

For details, see post #4 in the Denon xx13 thread at http://www.avsforum.com/t/1409431/the-official-denon-avr-xx13-model-owners-thread-faq#post_21995257
post #71 of 862
Thanks a lot !

Nor my store or Marantz EU was able to find/answer this question !?!
post #72 of 862
You're very welcome. An big advantage of an international forum like AVS is that it can draw on the extensive experience of enthusiasts like jdsmoothie and batpig, and isn't limited to people who happen to live nearby.
post #73 of 862
World class forum :-)

Just re-run the calibration, this time I got more accurate distances and lower crossover for front and center.

Now I love my SR6007 even more :-)
post #74 of 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^
nope, it existed on both...
the 8002 could not apply audyssey AND unpack the codecs, as it did not have enough processing power to do both...
realitically, it's a feature that "doesn't matter", as where the codec is unpacked (either the player or the avr) does not matter... one unit does not "unpack it better than the other"... it can't... by definition, the high rez codecs are lossless...

Thanks for the reply. I just posted it as, in another discussion on the Blu Ray Area, another user stated that, when matting the Marantz Receiver with a Blu Ray Player from the same brand "...the Marantz UD5005 Blu Ray Player offers full SACD over HDMI support...it will output pure DSD bitstream, but the SR-7005 could not decode it. The workaround is letting the UD5005 output the DSD as PCM (88.2khz) which sounds pretty good but ideally it would be nice to have both options..."

Wouldn´t in this case be a better sollution to handle decoding to the receiver if it could now (as on the SR 7007) decode it at higher rates than 88.2kHz? Or would it make no difference at all?

Thanks again and regards,

Carlos
post #75 of 862
^^^

ah, you are referring to sacd (dsd) not the lossless codecs (dts-ma, dolby true-hd)... this is generally referred to as "decimation"...

imo/ime... anything over redbook cd rates is transparent audibly, so a "higher rate" doesn't really buy you anything... the "bigger number", while comforting emotionally, doesn't improve sound qualiy, as you can't get "more transparent"... the "reason" why many of us buy sacd's is because they tend to have a bit more care put into the mixing/mastering process...

unless the decimation process is "broken" on one of the pieces of equipment (unlikely), it really doesn't make a difference if you decimate the dsd to pcm in the player or in the avr... note thwat the "jitter and high sample rate boys" may want to dispute this... ask for bias controlled tests if someone does..

a few things:

- if you expect to apply digital processing (room correction, etc.) the data has to be converted to pcm one way or the other...

- while many avr's will "accept" dsd, that does not mean that they include the processing to do a direct dsd-to-analog conversion, they will at the very least convert it to pcm to feed it through the dac...

- if an avr does do dsd-to-analog conversion, using it that way eliminates all of the "goodies" that actually do have an impact on sound quality...
post #76 of 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icon Master View Post

Sorry "bfreedma" but the person I spoke to has been in the audio, video, stereo, etc industry for more years than probably your age and possibly your age times two or three. He and his family own one of the largest distributors of A/V electronics in the south and southwest. He is also a manufacturers rep for many A/V product lines as well.
He is an experienced professional in this field and has life long experience to back up his knowledge. He is one of the "go to" guys in this industry and I know his answer about the difference between Denon and Maranz was factual. He is not a guy that BS's.
Many here have argued endlessly about black levels and how important that is to the "look" of a display or projector yet in the real world putting even a dim light on in a HT blows the deep black levels to kingdom come. Several made fun of the better sounding circuits comment about the Marantz versus Denon like units. Like the black levels that can be measured its still hard to quantify it in a real world setup unless you have a HT in a real cave with virtually no light seeping in. How a better designed circuit translates to better sound is also hard to quantify. However even with my old ears the Marantz sounds better than the Denon I had. Even a friend who happened to stop by when I installed the Marantz (SR7005) made the comment that my system sounded better yet the only thing I had changed was the A/V receiver.
As time goes by Ilook forward to seeing serious posts here from folks who have had the opportunity to setup like Denon and Marantz A/V receivers and hear what they have to say. For now all we have is the fact that the two brands share like platforms but from the back panel views it is clear there are differences there which mean the circuits inside have to be different too. Eventually we will see posts here based on listening tests. I look forward to seeing those but I am starting to save up for an SR7007 and not the Denon.

Appreciate your reference to the experienced person in the field as well as sharing your opinion.

I just placed an order for the SR7007 and am looking forward to getting it into my emerging system.

Thanks
Bruce
post #77 of 862
^^^

yup... i trust salesmen, for sure...

hint to the op: at least one poster in this thread has owned both denon and marantz equipment... there is currently a denon 5800 and a100 here right now, and i was an early adopter of the av7005 (in terms of recent marantz equipment).... not to mention the last 2 pioneer flagships (59 and the susano), as well as a few pieces from "boutique" manufacturers... oh, and a few other dalliances as well...

second hint: i rarely note the cost/value of my equipment/room... but i'm gonna this time, just for you, because you seem to be under the illusion that the advice being given is because other posters are, ummm, cheap... i have over $35k invested (wasted? tongue.gif ) in my theater, not counting the 1000's of hours of work, calibration, learning, invetigating, etc. (and others have spent much more and will give the same advice as i am)... i also have a pretty decent set of audio/video measurement and calibration tools (my video processor alone cost more than the units we are discussing here), as well as the experience and knowledge to use them... you REALLY think someone like me would sweat the few hundred dollars between the marantz and the denon if there was even a marginal chance of improvement? please.... rolleyes.gif

furthermore, please don't conflate video black levels with "mystical audio"... you couldn't be farther off base there... video black levels changing because of environment is analogous to sound quality changes because of environment (i.e. changing the acoustics of the room/speaker interface)... it is not analogous to some "belief" that different nameplates (and/or marketing terms) somehow confer "better sound quality" on any given unit... video black levels and the room/speaker interface are definable and measurable, and those measurable differences are proven to be visible/audible...

again, it's up to people who they choose to believe... some members have spent a not insignificant amount of time on this topic, and "we" are confident in the statements that have been made...

oh, and fwiw... one of the first signs that a poster has nothing but opinion (vs. knowledge) is the "how old are you" and "xxx has been is business 2-3x longer than you've been alive...

but the answer that question for the op as well... multiplying bfreedma's age by 3 essentially gets us back to the previous ice age... tongue.gifbiggrin.gif

edit: i find it very unlikely that we will get any results from "listening tests" posted... i find it quite likely that we will get all kinds of "comparisons" that are worthless to anyone with even a cursory understanding why those "comaprisons" are fatally flawed...
Edited by ccotenj - 8/29/12 at 3:24pm
post #78 of 862
^^
bravo, chris. well said...

you & I are about = on $ "invested eek.gif I just don't have the measuring gear u have...yet wink.gif some of my $ are tied up in Luddite gear, like turntables, laserdisc player biggrin.gif

Luddite, how's that for a brand name? tongue.gif
post #79 of 862
^^^

i'm a bit cranky, i've spent the last 5 solid days remodeling my front porch from a "storage area" into a "sitting room" (and still have to paint and stain/poly the floor)... swmbo finally decided to extract her pound of flesh for the theater room, and "suggested" that this be done... since it's generally wise to follow "suggestions", i took heed... tongue.gif

so that's why this one stuck in my craw in particular, and i felt the need to vent a bit... you know i don't like to discuss money and/or bona fides... but enough is enough... i'm sick of being told by random posters, both new and old, that i (and other "trusted" posters) are young and lack knowledge/experience and money...

"luddite" as a boutique manufacturer... i like that... biggrin.gif likely everything they make would score at least in the 95th percentile on both the harley AND fremer scale when fed through my lirpa labs suite of testing equipment... wink.gif

tell ya what, if you'd send me one of those spare ld players, i'd at least hook it up... tongue.gif
Edited by ccotenj - 8/29/12 at 4:08pm
post #80 of 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

a few things:
- if you expect to apply digital processing (room correction, etc.) the data has to be converted to pcm one way or the other...
- while many avr's will "accept" dsd, that does not mean that they include the processing to do a direct dsd-to-analog conversion, they will at the very least convert it to pcm to feed it through the dac...
- if an avr does do dsd-to-analog conversion, using it that way eliminates all of the "goodies" that actually do have an impact on sound quality...

I'm no expert here but isn't that what the "DSD direct" option is for on the SR6007 & SR7007? When sending a DSD signal over HDMI directly from the SA-CD player to the amplifier it will avoid any PCM conversion and intermediate processing and do a direct dsd-to-analog conversion.
post #81 of 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^
yup... i trust salesmen, for sure...

... Valuable info deleted for brevity...


one of the first signs that a poster has nothing but opinion (vs. knowledge) is the "how old are you" and "xxx has been is business 2-3x longer than you've been alive...
but the answer that question for the op as well... multiplying bfreedma's age by 3 essentially gets us back to the previous ice age... tongue.gifbiggrin.gif

Thanks! - I think.... eek.gif

Might have to make that my new sig! Now off to battle some sabre tooth tigers and mastodons (or clients).
post #82 of 862
Correct manual says:
When playing back Super Audio CD, DSD signals are converted into
PCM signals which are then converted into analog signals.
post #83 of 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljudnisse View Post

Correct manual says:
When playing back Super Audio CD, DSD signals are converted into
PCM signals which are then converted into analog signals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by g12345567 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

a few things:
- if you expect to apply digital processing (room correction, etc.) the data has to be converted to pcm one way or the other...
- while many avr's will "accept" dsd, that does not mean that they include the processing to do a direct dsd-to-analog conversion, they will at the very least convert it to pcm to feed it through the dac...
- if an avr does do dsd-to-analog conversion, using it that way eliminates all of the "goodies" that actually do have an impact on sound quality...

I'm no expert here but isn't that what the "DSD direct" option is for on the SR6007 & SR7007? When sending a DSD signal over HDMI directly from the SA-CD player to the amplifier it will avoid any PCM conversion and intermediate processing and do a direct dsd-to-analog conversion.

see the first quote above... if the manual is being read correctly (and i'm not doubting that it is), what the unit will do is what most units that accept dsd do, and convert it to pcm as soon as it enters the avr...

in order to do "dsd direct to analog", the avr must contain a dac that has this capability...

as alluded in my post you quoted... "dsd direct to analog" is likely the worst route to choose, even if the avr has the capability to do it... "dsd to pcm to analog", and invoking bass management and room correction is the "best" route to choose...
post #84 of 862
There is nothing wrong with different individuals having different opinions / different preferences. Having objective discussions about such is useful.

But if people are passionate about winning a debate over Marantz versus Denon, I suggest that be done in a new thread.

I’d like to see this thread focus on being an SR7007 owner’s thread. I just skimmed through the whole thread and did not see where anyone owns an SR7007. Is that correct? Has anyone else besides me placed an order for one?

Looking forward to hearing about hands-on experiences.

Thanks
Bruce
post #85 of 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceOmega View Post

I’d like to see this thread focus on being an SR7007 owner’s thread. I just skimmed through the whole thread and did not see where anyone owns an SR7007. Is that correct? Has anyone else besides me placed an order for one?

To some, it seems to be a social crime if someone buys, likes and/or recommends a Marantz product over a Denon product in this neck of the cyberwoods.

FWIW, there isn't a thread for a SR5007 and since they're the same series as the SR7007, I ended up here. And like you, I seem to be the only person in all of AVS land who has a SR5007. Well, I for one love my SR5007 and when your SR7007 comes in, after getting it set up and dialed in, I'm quite sure that you too will love your Marantz SR series AVR.

-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 8/30/12 at 2:23pm
post #86 of 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

see the first quote above... if the manual is being read correctly (and i'm not doubting that it is), what the unit will do is what most units that accept dsd do, and convert it to pcm as soon as it enters the avr...
in order to do "dsd direct to analog", the avr must contain a dac that has this capability...
as alluded in my post you quoted... "dsd direct to analog" is likely the worst route to choose, even if the avr has the capability to do it... "dsd to pcm to analog", and invoking bass management and room correction is the "best" route to choose...

Seems like it from reading the manual. Then whats the point of DSD Direct? Just to eliminate all the internal processing, except the PCM conversion. In the end its up to the end user to decide what sounds best to them. Whether it be the DSD>PCM>Analog (with post processing) or the DSD>Analogue route (Direct route).
post #87 of 862
^^^

to make a certain group of individuals "happy"...

the user can "do" whatever they like... be aware that "preference" isn't always "reference", and small room acoustics dictate that time aligned, bass managed and eq'd "sound" (if nothing else, the modal area will require eq) will give you results closer to "reference"...

imo, choosing a preference without establishing a reference is shortsighted...

"eliminating processing", while emotionally appealing, doesn't result in "purer" sound... nothing could be further from the truth...
post #88 of 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceOmega View Post

. I just skimmed through the whole thread and did not see where anyone owns an SR7007. Is that correct? Has anyone else besides me placed an order for one?
Looking forward to hearing about hands-on experiences.
Thanks
Bruce

I ordered one before I left the country. It is currently waiting at Best Buy for pick up, frustratingly it has been waiting for me for over a week. I will be back on the 19th.
post #89 of 862
Deleted a bunch of posts.

Smarten up guys or a few of you will be removed.
Trolls first.

K
post #90 of 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by swickrem View Post

I ordered one before I left the country. It is currently waiting at Best Buy for pick up, frustratingly it has been waiting for me for over a week. I will be back on the 19th.

We'll look forward to your comments once you have the system hooked up and dialed in.
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