Crestron/Savant vs DIY

Welcome to AVS

check out this related thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1365187/savant-horror-story-need-help

I've used tapatalk for other forums, and I'm not impressed. This new avs site works pretty well on android natively.

The relative problem with all HA systems is the steep learning curve, for installation and programming. If you're a DIY'er, it needs to be a hobby, and the install may take a year or more for a full system, to get to the point of 'seamless'.

Control4 marketing has been pretty annoying lately, so I'd stay clear of them. Not sure how long they'll be around, either. The owners haft
a history of cutting their losses and running.

CQC installs can rival the quality of professionally installed systems, but it can take a while, and you'll have to be the kind of person that enjoys tech tinkering.

Elan may be another system to consider.

If you're outgoing and rich, you may be able to find an installer that gives you lots of control after the install.

I went through a lot of different remote systems....

started with Crestron but soon became disenchanted with it: every time a channel had to be remapped or I bought a new piece of gear, I had to call the programmer back in and pay him: tried several other remote systems as well...

Finally I worked with a local dealer and bought an RTI system: I offered to do programming for the dealer and in return got access to the program: I still use RTI and love it: and I have become proficient at programming including 2 way drivers and RTI iPad app: I would not go back to a proprietary system I could not program myself

Crestron/ RTI systems are expensive and most dealers will not give you the program: although now they can update programs off site so it is easier to get changes made remotely by the programmer

If you can't get access to the program, consider iRule: there is a thread here on AVS about it:: it is an excellent program and relatively inexpensive: and you can do it yourself

Happy to help with any detail questions: above is my opinion only

Just to be clear, CQC is designed for professional installers, but they allow DIY.

CommandFusion now offers its own hardware. I have no experience with the hardware but have used CF to program my iPad for use with a Crestron system. You may want to take a look into it. There is a GoogleGroup which offers pretty good support. Perhaps somebody else around here has some experience with it and can't talk about if it would be a good DIY solution.

Did you take a look at CQC? I bet they would do design work, too, to get you started.

Until Comcast (Xfinity) hires sophisticated technicians they will just be a wirepulling outfit installing home automation. And there are plenty of those out in the world.

Windows is everywhere. With a dedicated PC, stability is (almost) a non-issue. ATMs are a good example of Windows applications. There are steps that are taken to lock the system down.

The PC communicates with the lighting controller, the HVAC controller, the irrigation controller, the CCTV DVR/NVR. The mission critical components don't depend on the PC for operation.

I suggest you take a closer look.

Wow, we've never been called 'haggard' before. Not to worry, when we deploy our new Bow-Tox technology, all that will be behind us. Could you elaborate on haggard a bit? Hopefully I can then either allay your fears, or at least book some time at the spa.

As to being Windows based, as indicated above, it's not an issue. Set up the server, put it in the closet, never used directly, if you want to get more adventurous strip it down to the bare minimum functionality. It will remain stable without problems. Lots of servers out there are running Windows. Our web site is on a Windows machine that has been shut down once in something like 7 years, and that was just to upgrade the memory.

Hi OP, decided to register to get in on this discussion

I purchased a home to renovate a few months ago. I've been looking at the different HA systems for a few years now, and after looking at many expensive and proprietary options, decided to jump in head-first with Loxone. I dont have an electrical or installation background, but it hasnt been to bad so far. this is the stage I am at at the moment:



Pros, IMO:

- cheap. Miniserver (the main logic controller) retails for $465 USD. thats 8 digital relay outputs, and 8 digital inputs.
- robust. basically its a domesticated PLC, same as used in industrial automation
- small. DIN mounted unit that fits in a distribution board
- easy. once you get your head around how the hardware and software work together, its quite simple to configure
- scalable. if you need more inputs or outputs, or other functionality like IR control or DMX control, you add another extension unit
- good looking. the UI is clean - not a blue gradient or gaudy red button in sight

Cons:
- support. mostly in German at this stage, although there is an english forum. the UK reps are quite helpful at answering questions. For basic setup and operation though it shouldnt be a problem
- userbase. not many installations outside of the EU. what case studies they have presented look good though

Just another option for you OP. Honestly I cant see any justification in paying a company huge dollars for the hardware and then more for after-sales support.

Let me know if youve got any questions. Im not affiliated with Loxone in any way

GB

I am really biting my tongue here...

I honestly wish you the best, please keep us posted with your progress and update once you go live.

ok, an addendum; I cant see any justification in paying a company huge dollars for the hardware and then more for after-sales support, if you are reasonably comfortable with the basics of HA and are willing to put in a little time with the config software, because I cant see anything this system cant do that the expensive ones can

GB

i guess you could split my installation into 4 areas of input - pushbutton / switches, ipad and iphone, sensors, and IR

any switch capable of closing a 24v contact can be used for digital input. so the switch you have on your wall now is probably compatible. the miniserver works by recognizing pulses of closed / open contact, so pushbuttons are preferred. examples of pushbuttons i have tested

clipsal impress, rrp around $14



pdl pushbutton, about the same price per module



im using a couple of these in the bathroom - ip68 pushbuttons, $5-10 each. one in the shower for music control



there are plenty of options. the idea is to reduce inputs on the wall switch - so instead of having 4 and 6 gangs each for individual functions, you can program a button to recognize double-clicks, triple clicks, push and hold, or any combination of each. these can be assigned to different functions. for example single push for lights on / off, double click for music on, push and hold for dimming.

sensors are similar, as long as they have a NO / NC relay output capable of 24v they can be used. im using a couple of these paradox ceiling sensors from dx.com, $10 maybe



again there is lots of options here

switches and sensors are wired back to the inputs on the miniserver with cat 5.

the IR extension module can be used to consolidate IR commands. for example you can program the IR signal from the nice looking apple remote to control lights, blinds, a combination of functions. just a matter of piecing the program blocks together in the config

video distro - i have no idea about really, but im sure you can work a third party into Loxone, in a similar way that they support Casatunes for multi-room audio

the ipad wallmount that Loxone produce is really nice, i have one in the kitchen. the ipad is one of the best looking and best functioning touch interfaces around, of course that is what you want mounted on the wall, not some big-bezzled beast that cost 4 times the price and lags out when you operate it
Edited by greenbone - 2/23/13 at 3:40am

Greenbone, where do you live? UK?

I think you should post some more information on what you are doing, ie size of home, controls for A/V, alarm, temperature, lighting, etc. Do you want touchscreens, ipads, smart phone controls. Do you care if you use 2 or 3 apps or does one app need to operate all systems. Do you care if there is 'wall clutter', or do you want single 4-8 button keypads in each room?
One thing I would suggest is to use a system where the company has been in business successfully for at least 5 years, new companies seem to come and go.

I live in New Zealand

For a young startup they seem to have solid financial backing .. new headquarters in Austria and big pushes into the UK and now US

since the post-install tweaking is a major factor in your decision, I would recommend downloading the Loxone config software and having a play .. there is a testing mode so you can try out different program structures and how they will operate without having any hardware connected

its really simple and quick to get basic functionality. when you begin it starts with a blank miniserver, with 8 ins and outs listed. so you drag out an input into the work area (ive used the first input, I1)



drag in a program block. ive used a push button here



drag in an output from the miniserver, here ive added the first relay Q1 (relays are labled Q1 - Q8)


connect them up



and thats it. when you turn on the test mode, clicking on "input I1" would light up output Q1, clicking on the input again turns it off. if you were happy with that, you would save the config which then gets flashed to the miniserver. after that, any pushbutton input on the physical input I1 would open and close the Relay Q1. repeat for the other 7 ins and outs

obviously with lots of other program block types, timers, analogue inputs and logic gates it can be as complicated as you need it to be

Hey guys this thread has been brought to my attention and if you guys have any more questions about Loxone products I can help you out with them. We are opening up our US location and soon will be offering seminars and training on these products but as of right now we just have our normal support.