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Loved my speakers at 8 feet, but not so much at 16 feet - why?

post #1 of 12
7/23/12 at 3:18pm
Thread Starter 
We are rearranging our HT room, and moved our couch (primary listing position) from its existing location about 8 feet from the TV to 16 feet from the TV (about a foot from the rear wall). Room is 25 * 18 *7, with the TV on the 25 foot wall like this:
TV F I R E P L A C E |
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Old Couch Loc. |
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New Couch Loc. |

Due to the fireplace and the left wall, my set-up includes a Paradigm 3-in-1 speaker bar in front (along with a Marantz 1601 receiver and Martin Logan Dynamo sub). http://www.paradigm.com/products/products-by-category/lcr/paradigm-reference/millenia-series/millenia-20-trio

I use the Audyssey set-up from the receiver. In the old listening position, I was really happy with the set-up. With the low-moderate volumes it almost always sees (sleeping kids upstairs and no insulation between floors), it was good enough for now. Now, we've moved the couch back, and I've re-run Audyssey, but it's missing something. Obviously, we listen at a bit higher volume setting on the receiver (2-4db) so that relative volume levels at the listening position is the same, but the sound is thinner (if that's the right word). Why would this be? Am I cruising for an update to my HT?

Kipa
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post #2 of 12
7/23/12 at 3:31pm
Unless the TV is a screen you are too far away; rule of thumb is about 2 - 3 time the screen diagonal. As for the speakers, you have moved essentially from near-field to far(ther)-field listeing which can change the sound dramatically. Plus you are now in a different position with respect to room modes, reflections, and all that jazz. The sound can change significantly as you move the speakers and/or listening position due to interaction with the speakers, room, and listeners.
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post #3 of 12
7/23/12 at 3:41pm
The location against the back wall is not a good choice sound wise. Also the dispersion pattern of the speaker is going to be different at that distance.
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post #4 of 12
7/23/12 at 3:42pm

1.  Soundbars are near-field devices constrained by their limited lateral dimensions.

2.  You are now sitting in close proximity to the rear wall and subject to destructive reflective interference.

 

There is only so much that Audyssey can do.

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post #5 of 12
7/23/12 at 4:05pm
Thread Starter 
Thank you all. I've read here how a room can affect sound more than any component - I just didn't realize how big a difference it could make. A couple follow-up questions:

1) I was eventually planning on replacing the Millenia 3-in-1 with something else for a wider sound stage - would a certain type of speaker be better at the bigger distance?
2) Would moving the couch 1-2 feet forward away from the back wall make a significant difference, or would that still be too close?
3) Would a better Audyssey product (XT32) help?

Someone, moving the couch is leading to needing a whole new audio set-up.

Kipa
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post #6 of 12
7/23/12 at 4:14pm
Yes, different speakers can definitely help. You are expecting a lot from a soundbar placed that far back. I would look for something that is a little more dynamic for home theater. I would also try moving the couch away from the wall as wel. Walls are reflection points.

Basically just what Kal stated, you are asking too much for your soundbar and your room.

What is your budget?
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post #7 of 12
7/23/12 at 4:26pm
Thread Starter 
Let's say $4K for front 3 speakers, new AVR, plus sub, but I guess it would depend on how much of a difference upgrading would be if I'm still having the rear wall issue. If the best solution is to move the couch 6+ feet away from the rear wall, then no big need to replace anything, right?

Kipa
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post #8 of 12
7/23/12 at 4:36pm
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kipa View Post

Let's say $4K for front 3 speakers, new AVR, plus sub, but I guess it would depend on how much of a difference upgrading would be if I'm still having the rear wall issue. If the best solution is to move the couch 6+ feet away from the rear wall, then no big need to replace anything, right?
Kipa

What size is your TV, and is this setup for TV mostly or music?
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post #9 of 12
7/23/12 at 4:40pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

What size is your TV, and is this setup for TV mostly or music?

TV is currently 46", but part of moving the couch back is a move to a 65" soon. Almost all movies (have a seperate Denon/Monitor Audio system for music in another room).

Kipa
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post #10 of 12
7/23/12 at 4:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kipa View Post

TV is currently 46", but part of moving the couch back is a move to a 65" soon. Almost all movies (have a seperate Denon/Monitor Audio system for music in another room).
Kipa

Well, as mentioned above even with a bigger TV you are still limiting your ability to resolve 1080p. I would propose getting the 65" TV first and then decide the appropriate viewing distance. You may still want something more dynamic for home theater, and with your budget proposed above, that will be easily accomplished.

Just a reference for viewing distance to screen size. I would say you would be a perfect candidate for a front projector and screen, but I am guessing the fireplace may limit what you can do there.

http://carltonbale.com/1080p-does-matter/
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post #11 of 12
7/23/12 at 5:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kipa View Post

Let's say $4K for front 3 speakers, new AVR, plus sub, but I guess it would depend on how much of a difference upgrading would be if I'm still having the rear wall issue. If the best solution is to move the couch 6+ feet away from the rear wall, then no big need to replace anything, right?
Kipa

Both will help and, if you can only do one, do it.  My small system is in a room where the couch is less than 2' from the rear wall and we enjoy pretty good sound despite that.  Decent speakers and full-sized receiver with a more advanced version of Audyssey (XT or XT32) will be worth it.

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post #12 of 12
7/23/12 at 7:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Both will help and, if you can only do one, do it.  My small system is in a room where the couch is less than 2' from the rear wall and we enjoy pretty good sound despite that.  Decent speakers and full-sized receiver with a more advanced version of Audyssey (XT or XT32) will be worth it.

Agreed. I would look at Denon receivers. They also have DynamicVolume control which will help you with your after hours viewing and not waking up the kids.

As for speakers, I will check out some of your local shops that carry brands like PSB, Paradigm, Kef, etc.
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