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2012 Summer Olympics - Page 12

post #331 of 799
Quote:
Originally Posted by agus0103 View Post

When CTV and an American network are airing the exact same show in primetime, there's no blacking out or sim-subbing or whatever of the Canadian network.

AIUI, the sim-subbing works the other way around, in that, the Canadian cable system is supposed to black out the American station, so that Canadians are forced to watch the Canadian commercials.
post #332 of 799
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvideo View Post

Doesn't explain what happened, i.e., what was said to get picked on. Plus, I can't keep an ear out.
Ah - I thought you'd managed to watch the UK ceremony coverage. His commentary didn't really add anything - and wasn't exactly the most insightful...
Quote:
Not offered in my area. My ISP is TDS, while the analog phone lines are in AT&T territory. I asked about dual pair DSL, so the I could increase my speed, but it is not available. What AT&T offers sucks. They are not pulling fiber. TDS is, in areas that they own. A friend works for TDS and he now has fiber.
Unfortunately, my sat dishes are outside of the Astra footprint mad.gifbiggrin.gif

Ah - I'm considering switching to 'fibre-to-cabinet' vDSL which would get me 50Mbs+, or Virgin Media cable, which could deliver 120Mbs - but at the moment I'm not sure I need the extra capacity, and I don't want to switch to cable for my TV so the maths makes less sense (it's usually better value to get Voice+Data+TV as a single package).
post #333 of 799
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCL View Post

Now on a slightly different topic.......
... for the very few people who still own a 4:3 cathode ray tube (CRT) TV set.... Almost all of the networks in Canada that carry the Olympics will display the entire 16:9 feed from the host on their standard-def channels, i.e. letterboxing. Good call. Those people may not benefit from the extra pixels of High Definition, at least they get the whole picture. But when we swtich to the peacock network on the CRT, we get a full frame display -- i.e. the 4:3 center-cut, with the sides of the 16:9 feed hacked off. They are not only butchering the competition, they are butchering their own HD feed for the audience who are still on analog! It's just such an unpleasant picture to look at, on the CRT.. This goes to show how BEHIND THE TIMES these guys are.

It's a result of NBC no longer generating a 4:3 SD feed, and not using AFDs to signal to those who generate 4:3 SD feeds how best to downconvert. As some content is still 4:3 SD pillarboxed to HD, you can't do a permanent 16:9 letterbox without delivering a postage stamp/window box feed on some content, so most providers do a permanent centre-cut. If NBC (and other US broadcasters) properly deployed AFDs, and SD rebroadcasters deployed AFD-friendly kit, then you'd be able to have a mixed 4:3 full-screen (for pillarboxed content) and 16:9 letterbox (for 16:9 native content), as well as other options.

In the UK this has been the case with OTA SD broadcasts for over 10 years - where digital receivers feeding 4:3 sets dynamically switch between 4:3 centre cut, 14:9 letterbox and 16:9 letterbox based on flags set by the broadcaster. The same systems were used to feed analogue SD transmitters (though all but a couple of these have been switched off). Analogue cable doesn't really exist here these days, though there are still a lot of analogue distributed TV systems in hotels, apartment blocks etc. (with a bunch of digital receivers feeding them)
post #334 of 799
NBC kind of did it again...

Gymastics is going on, second rotation, they do one of their commercials "Tomorrow on Today: Gabby Douglas"... this kinda let you know where she's gonna finish.. (I knew the result myself but how bout those people that don't want to be spoiled)

Yeah I was also scratching my head when they didn't show the Russian's final score... they also rapidly kinda explained why Raisman didn't get the bronze on some tie breaker thingy... (IMO they should given 2 bronze why in some sports they can tie and not here)
post #335 of 799
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrLar View Post

NBC kind of did it again...
Gymastics is going on, second rotation, they do one of their commercials "Tomorrow on Today: Gabby Douglas"... this kinda let you know where she's gonna finish.. (I knew the result myself but how bout those people that don't want to be spoiled)

I'm kind of amazed that with 14 hours of Olympic coverage per day, people still watch commercials. I watched each routine of the top 4 gymnasts in a total of <30 minutes.
post #336 of 799
What is noticable, as an outsider, is that compared to Beijing 4 years ago there are a lot fewer complaints about picture quality (and no screen grabs of blocky ring transitions) this time round. Has NBC's upgraded distribution system reduced the quality issues?
post #337 of 799
Quote:
Originally Posted by sneals2000 View Post

It's a result of NBC no longer generating a 4:3 SD feed, and not using AFDs to signal to those who generate 4:3 SD feeds how best to downconvert.

NBC does send AFD to the affiliates but even when passed through by the affiliate not all cable/satellite providers have AFD active on their equipment for generating the SD feed. Of course the AFD sent for news and sporting events is center cut anyway and shot to protect the 4x3 area of the screen. They haven't chosen to move to letterbox for sports yet like Fox is already doing. Prime time dramas and comedy shows are typically marked as Letterbox via AFD.
post #338 of 799
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrLar View Post

NBC kind of did it again...
Gymastics is going on, second rotation, they do one of their commercials "Tomorrow on Today: Gabby Douglas"... this kinda let you know where she's gonna finish.. (I knew the result myself but how bout those people that don't want to be spoiled)
Yeah I was also scratching my head when they didn't show the Russian's final score... they also rapidly kinda explained why Raisman didn't get the bronze on some tie breaker thingy... (IMO they should given 2 bronze why in some sports they can tie and not here)

Not "kind of" they did. Likewise, I knew the result but while watching it with a friend who didn't know the outcome easily figured it out after she saw the promo. Not just with this (the Olympics) but just everything in general, even my local news broadcast in St. Louis, it's like NBC doesn't even try anymore.

And I absolutely agree about the showing the Russian girl's score, another NBC gaffe, and I still don't know how Raisman got ousted because of the rapid explanation. But for some reason the commentators really annoyed me this year and that's never happened. It just annoys me when the gymnast gets on an apparatus or is about to do a "stunt" and he says "A month ago she fell...". What's the point? And when Gabby completed her uneven bars routine, as great a job as she did (through my novice eyes for sure), she had a little hop on her dismount. And the commentator made it a point to say something about it. Who by this point doesn't know you get deducted for a little hop? You do something that great and end it with "Oh, but there's a little hop...tenth of a deduction..."? You wanna talk about a "little hop" then talk about the Russian girl who gave up on her dismount and walked off the mat after her vault.

And that brings me to what's aggravates me more than anything else. The whole idea of the Olympics is to compete against the best. And when I saw the Russian girl (I'm sorry, I don't mean to be rude for not mentioning her by name but I don't have it at the moment) just walk off the mat like that I felt cheated as if it was an exhibition event or something. That's because I felt like "the best" would NEVER do that ESPECIALLY on an Olympic stage. You don't allow the 4th best overall gymnast (Jordyn Weiber per trial results) to compete so we can watch this? And does anyone out there think that this girl would have placed silver if Weiber had been competing? I don't think so! Again, ridiculous!
post #339 of 799
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATSCguy View Post

NBC does send AFD to the affiliates but even when passed through by the affiliate not all cable/satellite providers have AFD active on their equipment for generating the SD feed. Of course the AFD sent for news and sporting events is center cut anyway and shot to protect the 4x3 area of the screen. They haven't chosen to move to letterbox for sports yet like Fox is already doing. Prime time dramas and comedy shows are typically marked as Letterbox via AFD.

Ah - hadn't realised they were used on the network feed. How many affiliates forward them through their ATSC encoding chain? (Fox presumably have an easier job here as the network feed is passed straight on and not encoded locally at each station)
post #340 of 799
Quote:
Originally Posted by sneals2000 View Post

Ah - hadn't realised they were used on the network feed. How many affiliates forward them through their ATSC encoding chain? (Fox presumably have an easier job here as the network feed is passed straight on and not encoded locally at each station)
Well, that's the rub:

There are so many ways the information could be inadvertantly removed from the signal, it's hard to pinpoint what may be the cause at any parrticular station. Just running the signal through a graphics system to run a weather crawl overlay could potentially do it. There are likely more than a few stations that can pass network HD, but are still running analog Betacam for nearly everything else, making for a complicated path.

There are just two many ways to set up the path of a signal from dish to transmitter, it's a wonder half the stuff works right on air. Some of these stations are cobbled together from equipment purchased piecemeal as budgets allowed. Essentially, some of these stations are the TV equivilent of the "plumber's nightmare". I've seen stations that struggled to pass Closed Captioning properly for years after it was required.

On top of that, the cable company can do any number of things to screw things up.

The thing is, though, that doesn't even take into account whether the viewer's equipment properly supports the standard. I seem to remember some early converter boxes didn't support AFD corectly.

In that case, sometimes the safest thing is to stick to centercutting rather than shift things around just for the Olympics.

It should be pointed out that, in most cases, the crews at the stations really want to do a proper job. While you get a few low paid folks with no real experience of incentive to do well, many of the people in the technical positions really care about the product. The problem is, they're often hamstrung by lack of resources due to ownership that sees every purchase of equipment as money out of their pockets. Even proper training takes a hit at some places because paying two people during that period is seen as a waste of salaries.
Edited by NetworkTV - 8/3/12 at 10:49am
post #341 of 799
Kudos to NBC for showing the Women's 10,000 metres in Track LIVE at 4:30 pm (eastern time). That's the good part. The bad: a) 2 commercial breaks during the race, b) not live on West Coast, c) the LIVE bug stays on the screen the entire race (they made sure you know it's LIVE) I know why: They won't have 30 minutes in primetime to show this race.

Update: At the end of the Women's race, NBC presenter said the Men's 10,000 metres race will be LIVE tomorrow as well.
Edited by JCL - 8/3/12 at 2:03pm
post #342 of 799
If you've got an FTA satellite you can watch coverage of the Women's 10,000 m right now on Ethopian TV (ETV) on Galaxy 19 Ku. Much different than NBC or BBC, I can tell you that. eek.gif
post #343 of 799
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvideo View Post

AIUI, the sim-subbing works the other way around, in that, the Canadian cable system is supposed to black out the American station, so that Canadians are forced to watch the Canadian commercials.

That's the rule here in Canada, i.e. when a Canadian network is showing an identical live or pre-tape program at the same time as an American network does, the US channel feed is simultaneously substituted (sim-subbed) by the Canadian channel. (but you can still catch the US feed on a home-installed antenna)

But this rule does not apply to Olympics coverage -- not since I've been watching in the 70's ('76 Montreal Olympics). Why? The commentaries are different (thus the programs are not identical), even during the opening and closing ceremonies, some of these were live (if held in a friendly time-zone). Canadian networks never bothered to lobby the cable/satellite providers to sim-sub the U.S. olympic networks -- the audience has already figured out that Canadian coverage are, generally speaking a) superior, and b) produced for Canadians.
post #344 of 799
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCL View Post

Canadian networks never bothered to lobby the cable/satellite providers to sim-sub the U.S. olympic networks -- the audience has already figured out that Canadian coverage are, generally speaking a) superior, and b) produced for Canadians.

No generally speaking about it. CTV/CBC coverage is many time better than NBC, period.

At least CTV does live coverage during the day, even though many people are working. Not so NBC. The big stuff is held until prime time and then butcher edited.

What a joke.
post #345 of 799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Closet Geek View Post

And I absolutely agree about the showing the Russian girl's score, another NBC gaffe, and I still don't know how Raisman got ousted because of the rapid explanation.

I just double-checked ther file I have of the CTV live presentation to make sure, but the reason was that she royally screwed up her beam routine. She had two really bad off-balance landings. SHe didn't fall off, but the bad routine is what killed her score.

I'll have to check later, but the Russian didn't just walk off. She landed so badly that she lost her balance and basically fell off the pad. All she could do was to continue walking off.

You miss a lot when you are stuck with the crappy NBC coverage.
post #346 of 799
She [Raisman] had two really bad off-balance landings. SHe didn't fall off, but the bad routine is what killed her score.

Wasn't it she who actually grabbed onto the bar with her hands? Apparently that's about as big a no-no as falling.
post #347 of 799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaded Dogfood View Post

Wasn't it she who actually grabbed onto the bar with her hands? Apparently that's about as big a no-no as falling.

Very possible. I didn't check the complete performance, as I had to head out. But, I think you are correct. The two off-balance instances that she had were really bad, so that cost a lot of points as well.

FYI, beam grabbing is allowed, when it is part of the performance, i.e., flips, etc.
post #348 of 799
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvideo View Post

No generally speaking about it. CTV/CBC coverage is many time better than NBC, period.

Explaining the "generally" comment. I'm probably in the minority when it comes to comparing Canadian coverage: CTV (2012) vs CBC (1996-2008) -- CTV Is much better than CBC -- the technology may have something to do with it too. Back then, the CBC did some really debateable and amateurish things in 2004 and 2008. I will never forget the Canadian athletes during the Parade of Nations, the athletes were given a special CBC telephone number to dial in. Then they would have the athletes talking on the air while they're marching in. Sounds very interesting on paper, but in my opinion it was a huge audio disaster and made the whole telecast very cheapish. The IOC, this year, actually plead for people NOT to do that anymore. CTV didn't do that in London.
post #349 of 799
What's with tonight's show? It's largely reruns- 30 minutes on the '96 womens gymnastics, what's with that? Didn't anything happen today? This is the worst evening so far.
post #350 of 799
Here's my once-every-four-year Imperial vs Metric comment.....

During the Shot Put coverage (which NBC shrunk, we didn't need to go into that again), we have these huge guys shooting the ball metres into the air ... falling onto the field with horizontal markers around 17-, 19-, 21- metre marks. They are all visible to the audience, and the viewers. Essentially, and to make a long-story short, the guys making beyond the 21-metre mark will be on the podium, those who didn't will not. It's so simple! But here's what NBC did ... after every throw, the announcers converted every one of the distances into feet and inches! The graphics were also displayed in feet and inches. As a viewer, I find this very disconcerting and confusing -- it does not help me to follow who is ahead of who, who's in or out. Another example of NBCFail.
post #351 of 799
What about winter Olympics?
post #352 of 799
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvideo View Post

What about winter Olympics?

Every other year. :-)
post #353 of 799
Women's Tennis Finals, Williams vs Sharapova, 9:00 am Saturday on NBC. Sounds like a Wimbledon promo. For those of you who may not know, NBC lost Wimbledon rights beginning this year (to ESPN). I'll betcha they will also carry the Wimbledon re-match on Sunday. Hey Roger, I finally beat ya at Wimbledon. No you didn't Andy. Yes, I did, it's on the same court! No, Andy. It's two-out-of-three sets, and both of us wore coloured shirts.
post #354 of 799
CTV now showing the heats of the Men's 100-metre dash live, all of them!!
post #355 of 799
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCL View Post

Women's Tennis Finals, Williams vs Sharapova, 9:00 am Saturday on NBC. Sounds like a Wimbledon promo. For those of you who may not know, NBC lost Wimbledon rights beginning this year (to ESPN). I'll betcha they will also carry the Wimbledon re-match on Sunday. Hey Roger, I finally beat ya at Wimbledon. No you didn't Andy. Yes, I did, it's on the same court! No, Andy. It's two-out-of-three sets, and both of us wore coloured shirts.

I'll make sure to mute the sound for this event!biggrin.gif
post #356 of 799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nimo View Post

I'll make sure to mute the sound for this event!biggrin.gif

There was talk after Wimbledon they're going to crack down on that unnecessary irritant.
post #357 of 799
From the "Hot Off The Press" Thread (top of 'HDTV Programming' page). cool.gif

Critic's Notes
#NBCfail Economics
By Jeff Jarvis, HuffingtonPost.com

Reading the #nbcfail hashtag has been at least as entertaining as much of NBC's coverage of the Olympics. It's also enlightening -- economically enlightening.

There's the obvious:

The people formerly known as the audience have a voice and boy are they using it to complain about NBC's tape delays of races and the opening ceremonies, about its tasteless decision to block the UK tribute to its 7/7 victims, and about its commentators' idiocies (led by Meredith Vieira's ignorance of the inventor of the Web; they could have used their extra three hours to enlighten her).

Twitter is a gigantic spoiler machine. It would be nearly impossible to isolate oneself from news of results because even if you don't read Twitter or Facebook or go to the net, someone you know, someone you run into will. Information can't be controlled. Amen.

We in the U.S. are being robbed of the opportunity to share a common experience with the world in a way that was never before possible.

Those arguments have all been made well and wittily on #nbcfail.

The counterargument has been an economic one: NBC has to maximize commercial revenue, which means maximizing prime time viewership, to recoup the billions paid for the rights to broadcast, billions that pay for the stadiums and security and ceremony. The argument is also made that NBC's strategy is working because it is getting record ratings.

But there's no way to know whether airing the Phelps race or the opening ceremonies live on TV would have decreased or increased prime-time viewing. Indeed, with spoilers everywhere, viewing is up. I can easily imagine people watching the Phelps defeat live tweeting their heads off telling friends to watch it in prime time. I can imagine people thanking NBC for curating the best of the day at night and giving folks a chance to watch the highlights. I tweeted: "I'm waiting for NBC to take credit for idea Twitter helps build buzz & ratings for tape-delayed events." (Which led Piers Morgan's producer, Jonathan Wald, to take joking credit and then the executive producer of the NBC Olympics, Jim Bell, to offer it. To his credit, Bell has engaged with at least one tweeted suggestion.)

If NBC superserved its viewers, the fans, wouldn't that be strategy for maximum audience? The BBC is superserving its viewers. I went to TunnelBear so I could sample what the BBC is offering on the air and in its iPlayer -- which, of course, we can't use in the U.S. -- and it's awesome. But, of course, the BBC is supported by its viewers' fees. So the argument is that the BBC serves viewers because they're the boss while NBC serves advertisers because they pay the bills.

I still don't buy it. I don't want to buy it, for that pushes media companies to put all they do behind walls, to make us pay for what we want. I still see a future for advertising support and free content. I still believe that if NBC gave the fans what they wanted rather than trying to make them do what NBC thinks it wants, NBC could win by growing audience and engagement and thus better serving sponsors. I ask you to imagine what Olympics coverage would look like if Google had acquired the rights. It would give us what we want and make billions, I'll bet.

The problem for NBC as for other media is that it is trying to preserve old business models in a new reality. To experiment with alternatives when billions are at stake is risky. But so is not experimenting and not learning when millions of your viewers can complain about you on Twitter.

The bottom-line lesson for all media is that business models built on imprisonment, on making us do what you want us to do because you give us no choice, is no strategy for the future. And there's only so long you can hold off the future.

The bottom line for Olympics fans is that, as Bill Gross pointed out, much of the blame for what we're seeing -- and not seeing -- falls to the IOC and the overblown economics of the games. There is the root of greed that leads to brand police who violate free speech rights in the UK by chilling use of the innocent words "2012" and "games," and tape delays, and branded athletes. This is the spirit of the Olympics Games? It is now.

Jeff Jarvis is the author of 'Public Parts' and 'What Would Google Do?'

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeff-jarvis/nbcfail-economics_b_1718379.html?utm_hp_ref=tv&ir=TV
post #358 of 799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aliens View Post

There was talk after Wimbledon they're going to crack down on that unnecessary irritant.

Watching the live feed and it seems they turned down the court mics for me.smile.gif I've never seen tennis in 3D I might just wait till the morning but avoid the spoilers is nearly impossible thanks to NBC.
post #359 of 799
Quote:
Originally Posted by dad1153 View Post

From the "Hot Off The Press" Thread (top of 'HDTV Programming' page). cool.gif
Critic's Notes
#NBCfail Economics
By Jeff Jarvis, HuffingtonPost.com
Reading the #nbcfail hashtag has been at least as entertaining as much of NBC's coverage of the Olympics. It's also enlightening -- economically enlightening.
There's the obvious:
The people formerly known as the audience have a voice and boy are they using it to complain about NBC's tape delays of races and the opening ceremonies, about its tasteless decision to block the UK tribute to its 7/7 victims, and about its commentators' idiocies (led by Meredith Vieira's ignorance of the inventor of the Web; they could have used their extra three hours to enlighten her).
Twitter is a gigantic spoiler machine. It would be nearly impossible to isolate oneself from news of results because even if you don't read Twitter or Facebook or go to the net, someone you know, someone you run into will. Information can't be controlled. Amen.
We in the U.S. are being robbed of the opportunity to share a common experience with the world in a way that was never before possible.
Those arguments have all been made well and wittily on #nbcfail.
The counterargument has been an economic one: NBC has to maximize commercial revenue, which means maximizing prime time viewership, to recoup the billions paid for the rights to broadcast, billions that pay for the stadiums and security and ceremony. The argument is also made that NBC's strategy is working because it is getting record ratings.
But there's no way to know whether airing the Phelps race or the opening ceremonies live on TV would have decreased or increased prime-time viewing. Indeed, with spoilers everywhere, viewing is up. I can easily imagine people watching the Phelps defeat live tweeting their heads off telling friends to watch it in prime time. I can imagine people thanking NBC for curating the best of the day at night and giving folks a chance to watch the highlights. I tweeted: "I'm waiting for NBC to take credit for idea Twitter helps build buzz & ratings for tape-delayed events." (Which led Piers Morgan's producer, Jonathan Wald, to take joking credit and then the executive producer of the NBC Olympics, Jim Bell, to offer it. To his credit, Bell has engaged with at least one tweeted suggestion.)
If NBC superserved its viewers, the fans, wouldn't that be strategy for maximum audience? The BBC is superserving its viewers. I went to TunnelBear so I could sample what the BBC is offering on the air and in its iPlayer -- which, of course, we can't use in the U.S. -- and it's awesome. But, of course, the BBC is supported by its viewers' fees. So the argument is that the BBC serves viewers because they're the boss while NBC serves advertisers because they pay the bills.
I still don't buy it. I don't want to buy it, for that pushes media companies to put all they do behind walls, to make us pay for what we want. I still see a future for advertising support and free content. I still believe that if NBC gave the fans what they wanted rather than trying to make them do what NBC thinks it wants, NBC could win by growing audience and engagement and thus better serving sponsors. I ask you to imagine what Olympics coverage would look like if Google had acquired the rights. It would give us what we want and make billions, I'll bet.
The problem for NBC as for other media is that it is trying to preserve old business models in a new reality. To experiment with alternatives when billions are at stake is risky. But so is not experimenting and not learning when millions of your viewers can complain about you on Twitter.
The bottom-line lesson for all media is that business models built on imprisonment, on making us do what you want us to do because you give us no choice, is no strategy for the future. And there's only so long you can hold off the future.
The bottom line for Olympics fans is that, as Bill Gross pointed out, much of the blame for what we're seeing -- and not seeing -- falls to the IOC and the overblown economics of the games. There is the root of greed that leads to brand police who violate free speech rights in the UK by chilling use of the innocent words "2012" and "games," and tape delays, and branded athletes. This is the spirit of the Olympics Games? It is now.
Jeff Jarvis is the author of 'Public Parts' and 'What Would Google Do?'
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeff-jarvis/nbcfail-economics_b_1718379.html?utm_hp_ref=tv&ir=TV



We can cry all we want NBC just doesn't give a sh!t about their American viewers period. Only thing they care about is the bottom dollar to break even what waste....
post #360 of 799
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCL View Post

Here's my once-every-four-year Imperial vs Metric comment.....
During the Shot Put coverage (which NBC shrunk, we didn't need to go into that again), we have these huge guys shooting the ball metres into the air ... falling onto the field with horizontal markers around 17-, 19-, 21- metre marks. They are all visible to the audience, and the viewers. Essentially, and to make a long-story short, the guys making beyond the 21-metre mark will be on the podium, those who didn't will not. It's so simple! But here's what NBC did ... after every throw, the announcers converted every one of the distances into feet and inches! The graphics were also displayed in feet and inches. As a viewer, I find this very disconcerting and confusing -- it does not help me to follow who is ahead of who, who's in or out. Another example of NBCFail.

A pet peeve of mine as well. Especially since the Olympics are entirely metric and the conversion is just an approximation (with VERY strange rounding rules). Tell us the truth!

The NBC online results site is entirely metric and updates live fairly rapidly while the event is in progress. If you have a laptop, you might prefer to have this site open for the event and mute the announcer so you are not hearing scores in two unit systems. Of course, the NBC evening coverage is tape-delayed, so you will run into spoilers as the online site will have been updated live. NBC hates the field events, 95% of the their track & field coverage is track.

Because of the mixed basis, it is hard to take the difference of numbers in feet, inches, and fractions (at least rapidly). Metric comparison is trivial.
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