Increasing sharpness and contrast on your projector - Page 3

Howdy Walter! Long time, no chat!

I'm a repeat AVS buyer, and shipping up here to Calgary has always been quick and painless for me.

And I just ordered a Darblet from Mike a couple of hours ago as well! Anxious to see what this thing will do! If I get mine first, you're more than welcome to come out and see what it does on my setup.

Dave

Hey Dave,

How's it going. I think I'll order one tonight. Sounds like quite the little wonder box that's for sure and for the money if it only improves things slightly it will be worth it.

What shipping method did you use? I think USPS is probably best to get around the duty /customs grab. Yes I remember what you do,lol. Which shipping did you use?

Ordered one from Mike yesterday...

LOL my theater is getting an extreme equipment make over ....Liking it. Hanging out in these forums tooooo long...Wife is beginning to see boxes come home again....

USPS is the way to go (I didn't actually specify, but Mike chose wisely). UPS charges "brokerage", which is exorbitant. We'll still get dinged for GST I'm sure, but that's less that $15, so not bad at all.

Just ordered mine, Mike gave me $10 off because it was an open box unit. Can't wait to try it out. Quite often I don't even get charged GST when I order and get things sent through the mail from the USA.

I've apparently got an HDMI cabling problem.

Just got the Darblet on Saturday and inserted it between my Anthem Statement D2 surround processor and a JVC DLA-RS1 projector. The result was flashing of the screen about once/second and warnings generated from both my TivoHD and Oppo 95 sources that my projector doesn't support the HDMI HDCP content protection "feature." Had no problem viewing the Darblet menu. I've been using a 25 foot Monoprice HDMI cable between the Anthem D2 and the RS1 projector without any issues for the past 5 years. My equipment rack is in a closet adjacent to the dedicated home theater room, so I'm forced to use a 25-foot cable located in conduit.

I tried 2 different configurations with exactly the same result:

Anthem D2 --> 6 foot HDMI cable --> Darblet --> 25 foot HDMI cable --> RS1 projector
Anthem D2 --> 25 foot HDMI cable --> Darblet --> 6 foot HDMI cable --> RS1 projector

Tried multiple video output formats from the Anthem D2, including 4:4:4, 4:4:2, and RGB output, none of which fixed the problem.

Moved the Darblet to sit between the TIvoHD and the Anthem D2 (using two 6-foot HDMI cables), and it works perfectly. Watched the Olympics closing ceremonies last night and was really impressed. So the Darblet itself appears to work fine.

Looks like I'll have to acquire a better-quality 25 foot HDMI cable. Any suggestions?

I got a 25' BJC Series-1 when my Darblet uncovered/exposed/exacerbated the handshaking issues with my AVM50V->Planar8150 connection. Been perfect since.

I was about to order a Blue Jeans Cable, but thought I'd try an experiment first. I removed my projector from its mount and moved it to within a few feet of my equipment rack in the closet. Then I substituted multiple shorter 6-8 foot HDMI cables to place the Darblet between the Anthem D2 and the JVC RS1 projector. Unfortunately swapping HDMI cables doesn't resolve the problem: source video gets shut down with HDCP warnings generated by both my TivoHD and Oppo 93 player. Yet if I place the Darblet on HDMI between either of these source components and my Anthem D2, the Darblet works perfectly!

Very strange...

I'm having hdmi issues as well, between Darby and my Kinivo hdmi switch. They don't like each other. I've read in the Darby thread of several people with handshake issues, so guess we're not alone. The product works great but seems there are still a few hitches in the process/device. There was some discussion of users running the output of their Lumagen at 4:2:2 I think, if you want to try that. Not sure if it's related to your symptoms.

Ordered mine today! Hopefully I can play with this by Monday.

Hi Mike, after talking with Mark there, I bought new cables, monoprice 22 AWG 6' cables to replace the ones I had between all my components. I've tried different power sequences with no improvement. I just got my new switcher today from monoprice, (3x1 enhanced, to replace my kinivo). The new switch didn't help.

Setup as, Panasonic BDT300/Dish 722>>6' 22AWG>>Monoprice 3X1 switch>>6' 22AWG>>Darby>>>25' Black Bull hdmi>>>Epson 6010.

Turn on the pj, and Dish 722, gets me a green image, cycling the switch inputs it goes away. Accessing some BD menu while in 3D, only the middle third of the image is displayed, again, cycle the switch and that issue goes away. Taking Darby out of the chain, they go away. I'm considering ordering a new 30' redmere to see if that helps. The installer used the Black Bull cable, which is suppose to be ok for a 3D run of that length, but I know nothing about 'em.

I seen a couple users in the Darby thread post about the green image issue as well, one with a switch, and one with an extender in their setups.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1399154/darbee-vision-darblet/2670#post_22340394
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1399154/darbee-vision-darblet/2580#post_22333089

I did try a suggestion by Plasmaman, if I set the Darby to "no darby mode", prior to turning on the pj/Dish, no green image.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1399154/darbee-vision-darblet/2670#post_22340578

I think I'll try setting up the darby near the pj and see where that takes me, before ordering ANOTHER cable. Thanks for your interest Mike. I do appreciate you trying to help me enjoy the product, but the issues are hurting my pocketbook, LOL
Edited by jnabq - 8/24/12 at 8:43pm

Look what showed up a few days earlier than expected!!

I don't think I understand why people want their video artificially sharpened. Perhaps it's the same reason people what their LCD TV colors artificially pumped up.

Michael

My feelings on image enhancement are similar to Kris Deering with the addition I despise more wires and clutter.

http://www.hometheater.com/content/darbee-visual-presence-darblet-video-enhancer-page-2

Based upon his observations i now take the Darbee seriously.

there is more to it than just an increase in perceived sharpness.

many were skeptical until they saw it in use in their HT. It's even surprised some of the pro reviewers.

http://www.hometheater.com/content/darbee-visual-presence-darblet-video-enhancer

Click on the link in my signature, i've done some close ups of the changes. Of course it needs to be seen in person to know if you like the effect or not.

I prefer to use it in moderation, around 30-40% on my RS55 and BQ W7000.

Doesn’t really look like this is doing anything more than what two passes of Unsharp Mask will do to an image:

1. Low radius (0.2/0.3) high amount (100–200) to bring out fine details without introducing ringing. (alternatively medium radius, medium amount)
2. High radius (30–60) low amount (5–10) to increase local contrast.

Alternatively, the controls that modern HDTVs offer. Sony’s sets have had non-ringing sharpness enhancement for a few years now with their “Detail Enhancer” set to low, and local contrast enhancement with the “Advanced Contrast Enhancer” feature.

None of which looks any good in my opinion. There may not be halos/ringing caused by the sharpness enhancement, but it is still detrimental to image quality, emphasising details that are supposed to be “soft” in such a way that the image looks unnaturally sharp.


I will say though, JVC’s e-Shift technology looks fantastic in the images you have posted.

Given the choice of one or the other, I'd choose the e-shift first. Mainly because there is a real perception of increased image resolution with the signal upscaling / optical shift technique.

The Darbee adds small luminance tweaks in areas that become more noticeable (in a good way) such as facial features, hair texture, etc. This is when used in moderation (~30-40% combined with the e-shift at 2).

Sitting only ~14 feet from a 142" 16:9, it's a stark difference when I turn off e-shift and the darbee off as well. The 2 working together creates a naturally sharp appearing image that is very pleasing for my 2D BD content.


http://www.hometheater.com/content/darbee-visual-presence-darblet-video-enhancer-page-2

read Kris's last paragraph, I think most go in skeptical until it's seen in person.

Yes, that’s the “local contrast enhancement” I mentioned in my post. Photographers have had access to this kind of image processing for years, and Adobe even have their own implementation called “Clarity” now.

Many newer displays have a similar option, and I’m pretty sure HTPC users have had access to that kind of processing for a long time now.

Content is mastered to have a specific look to it. Any kind of image processing you do to that, is not accurate to the source. For example, many films intentionally reduce the contrast of a scene to create a specific look. This type of processing completely eliminates the director’s intent with that for example, as it brings back the “original” contrast of the scene.

If your source already has similar kinds of processing encoded in it, the results can be disastrous.

I have no doubt that many people will like this increase in sharpness and clarity “without side-effects” because they do not perceive the side-effects of this sort of processing to be detrimental to the image, unlike the intrusive ringing of older ”edge enhancement” type sharpening algorithms.

To me, this is no better than modern “vibrance” style image processing that pumps up the colours in the image without affecting skintones, because it lets people have a more colourful image without it looking “unnatural” to their eyes. At higher levels, Sony’s version of this not only pumps up the vibrance in the scene without making people look sunburnt, it actually changes skintones to make them more “natural” or “pleasing”.

And if you actually just look at two images side-by-side without context, the processed image can indeed be more “pleasing” to look at. I guarantee that most people would pick the sharpened, contrast enhanced, vibrant image, over the untouched one. I would rather watch a film as intended, so that it’s vibrant when it is supposed to be, and isn’t when it’s not etc.

While you have valid points you still need to remember that projectors especially won't always be on the same level in sharpness compared to an LCD or Plasma. There are drawbacks by going to a 3 chip projector. Adding the Darblet inline helps restore some of that intended sharpness that was taken away by the projector technology.

Also, who is to say, other than the director, what his film was supposed to look like. Even if your display has perfect greyscale balance and it otherwise is perfectly calibrated each display technology will ultimately look very different from each other. LCD looks very different from Plasma and LCOS looks very different compared to both LCD and Plasma and even DLP.
Edited by Seegs108 - 8/26/12 at 8:37am

I've experimented with a number of different settings on the HTPC and on various displays, this isn't the same.

There is a mile long discussion of this topic (directors intent, changing the image, etc) in the Darbee thread

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1399154/darbee-vision-darblet/2700#post_22343678

Without furthering the argument, all I can say is most skeptics end up liking what they are seeing even if it 'isn't right'.

Excellent points. The hype is to jump to 4K rez, while the static 2K projection errors are significant, especially for the three chippers. The improvement Darbee makes proves this point true. LCoS motion resolution is also significantly less than the static resolution, so the Darbee can help here too.
The JVC slow pixel response (and artifacts) is well known so the Darbee may be thought of overdriving the liquid crystal. Our AVS optical engineer also points out the JVC wire grid polarizers generate considerable light scatter (which is correctable) which reduces contrast and pop. The Darbee obviously helps here too.

Darbee's theory of operation is like presidential tax returns.

I have not been impressed with the static enhancement pictures posted. Members watch motion, but then post one static frame. Professional photographers would cringe at the artificial detail. Of course quality video (even the best) throws out a lot more data than quality static jpg photographs.

My main htpc/server/NAS is powered-on while we are awake, i use a slide show program which downsamples 4K photos to 2K. These images are perfectly bright and sharp displayed at 70" with very low energy consumption. I bought one of the best compact cameras that has excellent jpg compression (RAW processing becomes unnecessary).

The best thing I can state is the Darbere helps compensate for the natural falloff of high frequency detail to further seating distances. Its setting varies in proportion to the viewing distance.

The static photos are the closest way to show the changes. Of course it needs to be seen in person to properly evaluate it.

what is the point of judging it for those that haven't seen it in person? Argue the theory until the cows come home, there is a reason why top reviewers like Kris are calling it a must have addition for the low cost.

I like the darbee on both my DLP and LCOS projectors, but for my preferences, it must be used in moderation (~30-40%)

This is a great thread for those that haven't seen the darbee, but choose to judge it anyway and argue it's value. 38 pages, have fun.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/hdtv-video-displays-processors/59276-darbee-visual-presence-darblet.html

I received mine yesterday and playing around with it last night I can say that I like it best at 45% on the HiDef mode.

I tried to capture some shots to show what kind of a difference I was seeing. All of these are with 45% HiDef Mode:

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/142395

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/142396

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/142399

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/142401

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/142403
Edited by Seegs108 - 8/26/12 at 10:57am

I ordered mine yesterday with overnight shipping and it can't get here fast enough. I have 2 quick question (I'm sure they've probably been answered already):

1. I have a 20' hdmi cable running from my receiver to my RS-45. Is it better to place the Darbee closer to the projector (20' cable > Darbee > 3' cable > projector) or closer to the receiver (3' cable > Darbee > 20' cable > projector)?

2. What's the agreed upon best average setting for the Darbee?

Thanks for the help

I must have missed the option in my Photo Shop suite that makes new left and right offset images from the original and from that new mix of information allows me to dial in the precise amount of new "depth" I would like to add to that original.

Thank you for the help.

With either the switch, or the darby in the chain by themselves, it works fine so it does seem there is some conflict between 'em. I might try moving the darby until I can upgrade my avr.

The extra step to cycle the switch for the issues isn't to much of a hassle to keep the device in the chain. It's easily worth the step, I would just like to know if Darby is working on these types of issues for future improvement.