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SEOS-12 / DNA-360 / JBL 2226(J) build - Page 2

post #31 of 235
+ 1
post #32 of 235
Quote:
Not CNC, but came out pretty well - will do cleanup and roundover of the slot ports, and the baffle edges once the baffles are attached to boxes. Oh that reminds me, I still need to do roundover on the back side of the woofer cutouts (and I guess waveguides for good measure) before assembly.
I left the cutouts for the body of the waveguides (back side) pretty sloppy, not sure if that matters.
I thought I'd be able to start on the boxes this weekend too - had a place all lined up that carries Baltic Birch plywood, went over there during lunch break yesterday, but the guy at the counter says "oh, if you need the sheets cut, you'll have to call ahead and pick them up the next day" (of course the next day is the weekend, and they're closed). So struck out on the BB - maybe I can call another place and pick up what I need before work one day this week. Stuff is like gold, $45-50 per 5x5 sheet, but what the heck, even crappy plywood is expensive here.

Nice work. How did you do the cutouts for the waveguides?
post #33 of 235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgwalsh View Post

Nice work. How did you do the cutouts for the waveguides?

I made a template on some thin plywood: traced the waveguide outline, then made an outline 3/32" bigger than that all around, cut it out using a jigsaw and filed / sanded to clean it up; then clamped the template to the baffle, and routed within the template using a 1/4" straight bit and 7/16" bushing. Final step was cutting out the middle with a jigsaw.
post #34 of 235
Hey Brad,

On the slot ports i recommend you do a test to see how a rectangle looks with a roundover all the way around. It doesn look square anymore more like an oval.... In the past ive just done the top and bottom and left sides square which i liked better.

Nevermind if your already cool with it just wanted to give you a heads up in case you didnt know.

Heres what i mean:
9ce21717.jpg
post #35 of 235
Thread Starter 
Thanks Nick, I hadn't considered that, I'll mull it over - I do know that whatever roundover I do on the slot will be fairly small, like 3/8" or so maybe, since its so close to the bottom and sides of the cabinet.

I made the trip to Ganahl - yay open on Sundays - and picked up two 5x5 sheets of BB plywood, and had them cut to fit in my SUV; brought it home and marked and cut the pieces (sides, backs, tops, and bottoms; and managed to get one cabinet dry fit together (no glue yet, since I need to cut and fit the piece that forms the last side of the slot port, which is probably easier without the baffle attached.

photo.JPG

(drill shown for scale - these are pretty beefy bookshelves tongue.gif)
post #36 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Horstkotte View Post

Thanks Nick, I hadn't considered that, I'll mull it over - I do know that whatever roundover I do on the slot will be fairly small, like 3/8" or so maybe, since its so close to the bottom and sides of the cabinet.

I made the trip to Ganahl - yay open on Sundays - and picked up two 5x5 sheets of BB plywood, and had them cut to fit in my SUV; brought it home and marked and cut the pieces (sides, backs, tops, and bottoms; and managed to get one cabinet dry fit together (no glue yet, since I need to cut and fit the piece that forms the last side of the slot port, which is probably easier without the baffle attached.

photo.JPG

(drill shown for scale - these are pretty beefy bookshelves tongue.gif)

Lookin Sweet!  I'm living vicariously through you man, I can't start my build until I complete some other priorities I set for myself....

 

I think you might want some bracing in there, but lets ask the expert!

 

"Brace Yoself Fool!"

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTnsvJ-MYNnHHit9mU6P9znpR1mO8Yars4TKzv9I1sC-vVqp2o3qRaMH-GC

post #37 of 235
Looking really nice!
post #38 of 235
Brad,

That 1st bookshelf SEOS is shaping up great - nice job!
I have a Speaker newbie question; What are the main considerations when deciding to go ported or sealed ...?
post #39 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by NicksHitachi View Post

I think you might want some bracing in there, but lets ask the expert!

"Brace Yoself Fool!"
images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTnsvJ-MYNnHHit9mU6P9znpR1mO8Yars4TKzv9I1sC-vVqp2o3qRaMH-GC


That's funny stuff right there!
post #40 of 235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NicksHitachi View Post

Lookin Sweet!  I'm living vicariously through you man, I can't start my build until I complete some other priorities I set for myself....

I think you might want some bracing in there, but lets ask the expert!

Thanks Nick - I'll be adding some bracing, haven't thought much about the details yet - maybe just simple midpoint stick/dowel braces front-to-back, side-to-side?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

Looking really nice!

Thanks tux - already thinking ahead to how I'll get one of these up on top of a ladder in the back yard for measurements. tongue.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuzed2 View Post

Brad,
That 1st bookshelf SEOS is shaping up great - nice job!
I have a Speaker newbie question; What are the main considerations when deciding to go ported or sealed ...?

Thanks Craig - the main consideration for me was extension (see WinISD graph earlier in the thread, comparing -3 dB point for sealed vs. ported). I decided that I'd like to be able to run them a bit lower, to do a crossover to sub at 60 Hz - not sure that I'll run them like that, as I'm currently crossing my mains at 100 Hz, but I didn't want the design to prevent it, especially since they have 15s in them. Ported also means bigger boxes, and a few more variables to juggle (box size, tuning, port velocity / resonance, excursion below tuning). I'm a relative noob too, others more experienced in speaker design might chime in with other factors that I've left out.

I guess I also wanted a little more challenge / learning experience, and since its DIY, to build something a little different.
post #41 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Horstkotte View Post

...and managed to get one cabinet dry fit together (no glue yet, since I need to cut and fit the piece that forms the last side of the slot port, which is probably easier without the baffle attached.

Yea, I would say that attaching the panel for the slot port before attaching the baffle would be much easier. tongue.gif

You are making excellent progress, well done. Can't wait to see how these look with drivers installed.
post #42 of 235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerParty View Post

You are making excellent progress, well done. Can't wait to see how these look with drivers installed.

Thanks BP - I can't wait to see them put together too! Also can't wait to get off work so I can make some more progress. wink.gif
post #43 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Horstkotte View Post

Thanks Nick, I hadn't considered that, I'll mull it over - I do know that whatever roundover I do on the slot will be fairly small, like 3/8" or so maybe, since its so close to the bottom and sides of the cabinet.
I made the trip to Ganahl - yay open on Sundays - and picked up two 5x5 sheets of BB plywood, and had them cut to fit in my SUV; brought it home and marked and cut the pieces (sides, backs, tops, and bottoms; and managed to get one cabinet dry fit together (no glue yet, since I need to cut and fit the piece that forms the last side of the slot port, which is probably easier without the baffle attached.
photo.JPG
(drill shown for scale - these are pretty beefy bookshelves tongue.gif)

You could bury TWO monkeys in that baby! biggrin.gif

Those are going to be some nice looking Man speakers. Too bad no one will see them...until you make a point to lift the screen and show them. tongue.gif
post #44 of 235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCaboNow View Post

Too bad no one will see them...until you make a point to lift the screen and show them. tongue.gif

Up to now, I had no reason for AT screen backlighting - but it sounds more appealing now. biggrin.gif

Wonder what each of these suckers is going to weigh - closest guess wins a pack of Fits gum.
post #45 of 235
Thread Starter 
Confused now about WinISD port "End Correction" when it comes to slot ports. For circular ports, you can pick flush or flared ends, and it adjusts the port length to compensate. For rectangular ports, it inserts a numeric value, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do with it - subtract from port length? add? nothing?

For 16 x 1.75 slot port, it says 11.61 length, .732 end correction. So should the port length be 11.61 or 11.61 - .732 or ?

Googled for some answers, and got a lot of contradictory interpretations.
post #46 of 235
End correction is for flanged ports not flared, a flanged end is when your port exits flush with a panel, winisd does not support calculation of flared ends.

Your port length should increase/decrease automatically as you choose the different end corrections.

I have always left in on the defalt .732 correction value (one flanged end) and it always get me within 1 or 2 hz, but usually lower then predicted with slot ports like this. I wonder if two flanged ends (.850) would be more appropriate.
post #47 of 235
Thread Starter 
Thanks mtg90 - when I said flush I meant flanged - and realized after I posted that it doesn't support flared.

I guess I'll just go for 11.64 port length (10.14 extension past the 1.5" deep baffle) and see what I get. Seems pretty consistent with what I get for a circular port of equivalent cross area and one flanged end.

Got the other two washing machines er cabinets dry fit together before it got past power tool curfew. Grr. Need to remember to stop for a couple tubes of PL on the way home tomorrow too, thought I still had some, but only about 1/3 of a tube, and didn't want to run out in the middle of assembling a box.
post #48 of 235
Thread Starter 
Here are the three washing machines - boxes glued up with PL, except the baffles, which are still just screwed on until I have the mounting holes drilled.

photo.JPG

Woofer and waveguide held in by gravity:

photo.JPG

A closeup of the slot (shelf?) port.

photo.JPG

Also shown are the markings for the mounting screws - boy they're close to the edge, front mounting drivers is kind of annoying. rolleyes.gif I ordered these, thinking they'd work better than T-nuts/hurricane nuts, since they don't need as much space:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002WC8TU2/ref=oh_details_o01_s02_i00

51-W5n-iShL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

...but still not much room to operate. The holes may (will) hang over the edge, and I'll have to bury them in epoxy. Or angle the screws, not sure which is worse. No space on the back to be able to do a roundover either.
post #49 of 235
Very nice looking boxes.

When it comes time to measure and model for the crossover, PM me or I might miss the thread. I definitely want to help contribute since I will have some 2226J's for sale at some point when I swap them for my TD15M's. Getting a xover designed for use with the SEOS will help getting them sold. I might even keep some and mate them to SEOS-12's for my office.

When you get to the point of xover design, don't be afraid to ask questions.
post #50 of 235
Why not just use wood screws to mount the drivers?

I have personally never thought T-nuts/hurricane or the threaded insert's you ordered are worth the added hassle unless you would be removing the drivers often. I also ran into trouble when trying to mount hurricane nuts when there that close to the edge, the flange was a little over the edge and the woofer touched them ever so slightly to throw off the alignment making about half of the hurricane nuts useless. I have to remove the woofer which actually got stuck a little with the HN's that made contact and scratched the frame. From there I had to remove the HN's, apply a 2 part epoxy to cover the holes and make new mounting holes for normal wood screws.
post #51 of 235
Hi Brad,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Horstkotte View Post

...but still not much room to operate.
When I find myself short on clearance, I resort to these:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-threaded-inserts/=iw55ny
(the Helical Inserts, not the Externally Threaded Inserts. I can't seem to call up just the Helical.)

They are not so simple to install, as they need a specially-sized tap, but they work well when installed well. Nothing else I know of needs less clearance.

I wouldn't use anything that breaks through into the center area - as nothing I know of would hold-up (although I have never resorted to epoxy).
Edited by MarkHotchkiss - 8/17/12 at 2:15pm
post #52 of 235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by coctostan View Post

Very nice looking boxes.
When it comes time to measure and model for the crossover, PM me or I might miss the thread. I definitely want to help contribute since I will have some 2226J's for sale at some point when I swap them for my TD15M's. Getting a xover designed for use with the SEOS will help getting them sold. I might even keep some and mate them to SEOS-12's for my office.
When you get to the point of xover design, don't be afraid to ask questions.

Thanks I definitely will let you know and take advantage of your kind offer to assist / spoon feed me. smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

Why not just use wood screws to mount the drivers?
I have personally never thought T-nuts/hurricane or the threaded insert's you ordered are worth the added hassle unless you would be removing the drivers often. I also ran into trouble when trying to mount hurricane nuts when there that close to the edge, the flange was a little over the edge and the woofer touched them ever so slightly to throw off the alignment making about half of the hurricane nuts useless. I have to remove the woofer which actually got stuck a little with the HN's that made contact and scratched the frame. From there I had to remove the HN's, apply a 2 part epoxy to cover the holes and make new mounting holes for normal wood screws.

Yeah I may do just that, I guess I'll wait for the inserts to show up in the mail and take a close look at the size, and if it looks like a no go, save them for later projects, and use screws for these.

Thanks
post #53 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Horstkotte View Post

Here are the three washing machines - boxes glued up with PL, except the baffles, which are still just screwed on until I have the mounting holes drilled.
photo.JPG
Woofer and waveguide held in by gravity:
photo.JPG

Lookin' good! smile.gif
post #54 of 235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Lookin' good! smile.gif

Thanks Scott - they're not quad 15s, but they'll have to do! (hint hint build thread hint hint)
post #55 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Horstkotte View Post

Thanks Scott - they're not quad 15s, but they'll have to do! (hint hint build thread hint hint)

Heheh. Hey, you gotta start somewhere. wink.gif I think they look great and your woodworking skills are top notch. I'm envious. redface.gif


Btw, lil update: I'm still waiting for Wayne Parham to ship me the midhorns so right now that's holding up the final stages of my uber build. Ordered the third DCX today. smile.gif Almost there....for real!
post #56 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Heheh. Hey, you gotta start somewhere. wink.gif I think they look great and your woodworking skills are top notch. I'm envious. redface.gif
Btw, lil update: I'm still waiting for Wayne Parham to ship me the midhorns so right now that's holding up the final stages of my uber build. Ordered the third DCX today. smile.gif Almost there....for real!

Are you building a 7 Pi? I am thinking of converting my 4 Pi's (JBL 2226 based) to 7 Pi's when I retire from Navy and build a proper room.
post #57 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by NWCgrad View Post

Are you building a 7 Pi? I am thinking of converting my 4 Pi's (JBL 2226 based) to 7 Pi's when I retire from Navy and build a proper room.

No but it is strikingly similar though only by coincidence. My yet unnamed uber speaker build is of my own design. A concoction of many designs and systems that I have researched over the years and put my own finger print on.
post #58 of 235
Brad, When I have faced small clearances in mdf I have used cyanoacrylate (crazy glue) to reinforce the area. Use the water thin to get the best penetration. Apply after the fastener of choice has been inserted the first time and removed. This applies if you are using threaded inserts.
You may want to limit the treatment to surfaces which will not be visible. It could affect finish texture...may want to test for such a condition first.
post #59 of 235
Thread Starter 
Thanks bg - thinking I'll just go with screws though, just too close to the cutout.

Made a little more progress yesterday and this morning: 1/4" roundover on back of woofer and waveguide cutouts (since I'm doing screws for the woofers, figured why not); drilled pilot holes for the woofers, and holes for the threaded inserts on the waveguides, and screwed them in; glued/screwed on the baffles; used a trim router bit on the sides and back; and belt sander to trim the baffles (too deep for a trim bit to work, at least the ones I have); 1/4" roundover on slot ports; 3/8" roundover around all exterior edges; bondo'ed and sanded screw holes.

You can see I went a little nuts with the 50 grit belt sanding in a couple places, so will need to fill / sand a bit more before primer.

photo.JPG

Will work on bracing next - thinking just a window brace horizontally between woofer and waveguide, or just "stick" bracing front to back and side to side.

I wonder if I should also brace the center of the slot port - any thoughts?

Edit: scratch the "window" brace - won't fit through the woofer hole. Sticks it is.
post #60 of 235
Thread Starter 
Bracing:

photo.JPG
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