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What can we expect from 2013 Panasonic Plasmas? - Page 7

post #181 of 1445
I dont care if its a VT62.51, I plan to buy one smile.gif
post #182 of 1445
When does Panasonic usually release details of their new models? Usually last minute, no?
post #183 of 1445
We will really get the good in Jan at CES.
post #184 of 1445
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

I dont care if its a VT62.51, I plan to buy one smile.gif

Yeah, I'm pretty locked in myself at this point. I keep thinking about just buying a VT50 to save money but I'll regret it if there is something about the VT60 that impresses me. I think about the only thing that would prevent me from buying the next gen Panasonic would be Sony saying they'll have Crystal LED TVs out before the end of next year or Panasonic saying they'll have affordable 4K plasmas by the end of next year (which I doubt but would be thrilled if it occurred).
post #185 of 1445
Going by convention, Panasonic usually doesn't make huge leaps from one model cycle to the next (e.g. the VT30 wasn't a big improvement over the VT25), so I'd guess we'll see minor tweaks from the '50s. That's what I'm hoping, at least, because I don't want to upgrade from my VT50 biggrin.gif
post #186 of 1445
It's past time to at least match the Kuro 9Gs in that all-elusive black level department.
post #187 of 1445
I haven't seen a 9G Elite since we stopped selling them so I can only go by memory on those. My store does still have a 5020 in the breakroom, though, so I'm pretty familiar with 9G Kuros.

I have a VT and my friend recently got a 60" GT50, and I have to say that the 2012 Panasonics are quite phenomenal. To me, they look so similar to Pioneer displays...I can't quite put my finger on it, but they seem to capture the "character" of Pioneer sets - - the depth, the realism -- exceptionally well. 2010-2011 Panasonics didn't really look quite so "Pioneeresque" to me. I believe the blacks are on par with 8G Pioneer PDPs/1st-gen Kuros, correct?

It wold be nice if Panasonic put the final nail in the Kuro's coffin in 2013. I think enthusiasts care more about achieving this than Panasonic does, however.
post #188 of 1445
eek.gif
Edited by Mirheldt - 12/2/12 at 8:10am
post #189 of 1445
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirheldt View Post

Are you OK man?
How u gonna explain this?
Your own words taken from ************** forum
''gmarceau
Re: Panasonic Plasma Insiders' Discussion Thread
I won't try to guess what the next pdp advances are, but I am curious: Just how far away are you guys from getting to 10 lumens per watt? 5lm/w happened in 2009 and I have to believe that you're somewhere closer to 10 lumen than 5 lumen at this point if the panels keep getting more and more energy efficient each year. Does going to 10 lumen involve a totally different process, or is that part of why things changed from the ground up- to allow that kind of energy efficiency in the future? I thought 10 lumen might be important to the plasma division since there are supposed to be some significant cost reductions.''
Clarify please.

5 lm/watt is in use since 2009. They've doubled the panel efficiency compared to 2007 when they were somewhere around 2.5, so real products in 2009. Then CES 2009 Neo PDP Eco design Triple luminance efficiency compared to 2007 which is something like 7.5 lumen tech. http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20090108/163796/ .
CES 2010 The new quadruple luminance efficiency panel http://panasonic.co.jp/corp/news/official.data/data.dir/en100107-10/en100107-10.html 10 lumen tech!!! Man
'' The new quadruple luminance efficiency plasma panels are incorporated in all 2010 models of VIERA plasma HDTVs'' - Taken from this article and as you can see this is an official news from the panasonic headquartes not from any dubious or disreputable web page.
2012 15th generation panel 30% increase in brightness with same level of the power consumption.
So are you still adamant, that panasonic is currently using 2 lumen per watt plasma cell efficacy tech in 2012 products? cool.gif

Yeah, I'm still adamant that they don't use 5 lm/w. What you quoted was before I was informed that they never used 5 lumen tech. Lets think about this for a second. Who would you believe: Someone who has contacts from within the company in the engineering division, the people who actually know what's in the panel and the technology used, or advertising from Panasonic's marketing division, where 5/10 lumen/watt efficiency is never referenced in a single press release.

Maybe you're right, but I'll tell you, I really lose interest in discussing this when you insinuate that I'm not 'ok' and you set your whole post up as though you're playing 'gotcha!'

Why don't you start a thread about lumen/watt efficiency? I know little about this, so you should try to find xrox and D-Nice on the forums if they're still around and get their opinions. You can increase luminance efficiency without increasing lumens/watt.
post #190 of 1445
Ok. Fair enough. Atleast u admitting that u know little about this.
Edited by Mirheldt - 12/2/12 at 8:15am
post #191 of 1445
Your quoting method is making your posts difficult to understand. I can't tell if you're quoting stuff or saying stuff.

As for the 5 lumen thing, yes there was incorrect information released a few years ago and even D-Nice had gotten incorrect info from his industry insiders that he had posted and had to later go back and correct.
post #192 of 1445
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirheldt View Post

Ok. Fair enough. Atleast u admitting that u know little about this.

I know as much about this as you do- basically the information given by a couple people who are gracious enough to share it with the forum. We've all read these articles you posted before.

The other thing to factor in, is that it really isn't important to picture quality considering that 101/500m Kuro never even hit this sort of lumen target. That panel still has a better picture than anything currently on the market.

If black level gets halved again in 2013 and they stick to the formula that brought us the 50 series, it'll be a great year for plasma enthusiasts.
post #193 of 1445
^111FD and 151FD can fairly be added to that 101/500m lineup, IMO.
post #194 of 1445
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post


And Panasonic kept the secret sauce from falling into the hands of the Koreans so that accounts for something too wink.gif

I'm afraid it accounts for us being 5 years behind where we could have been with plasma technology.

I'd have gladly purchased a Samsung or LG plasma if those bad boys looked as good as a Kuro.
post #195 of 1445
sure would be nice if they would concentrate on correcting the problems with their plasma's and their customer service.......unless they fix the problems you'll end up looking at a nice blank screen.
post #196 of 1445
Quote:
Originally Posted by carpetweb View Post

sure would be nice if they would concentrate on correcting the problems with their plasma's and their customer service.......unless they fix the problems you'll end up looking at a nice blank screen.

What problems? Panasonic Plasmas have the lowest defect rate of any TV you can buy. Customer service can be hit or miss, but for the most part it's still better than with the other brands. If yours had a blank screen well then that sucks of course, but there is no way any manufacturer can ensure a 100% reliability rate on the hundreds of little electronic components that make up a TV.

Crying and complaining about it won't change anything, that's just the nature of modern electronics.
post #197 of 1445
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

What problems? Panasonic Plasmas have the lowest defect rate of any TV you can buy. Customer service can be hit or miss, but for the most part it's still better than with the other brands. If yours had a blank screen well then that sucks of course, but there is no way any manufacturer can ensure a 100% reliability rate on the hundreds of little electronic components that make up a TV.
Crying and complaining about it won't change anything, that's just the nature of modern electronics.

To add to what Randy said our company will install any brand the customer wants and we have the least amount of problems with Panasonic compared to the rest but as was said every once in awhile there will be a bad unit.
post #198 of 1445
Could one of you rank the top 3 improvements in the VT60 (over the VT50) in order of confidence that it is accurate?
post #199 of 1445
Quote:
Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

Could one of you rank the top 3 improvements in the VT60 (over the VT50) in order of confidence that it is accurate?

That will be impossible right now as nothing has been announced tongue.gif You probably realize that, but anyone who speculates specifics is just randomly guessing, especially since the improvements this year seem pretty good over last. Just sayin' biggrin.gif
post #200 of 1445
I hope Panasonic does something solid for 2013. Im one of those 8G Kuro guys who would like to get a laregr screen but nothing seems to "do it" for me so I sit on the sidelines waiting ror that certified KURO replacement. The Samsungs have some strong points but I dont trust them as a brand. LGs prolly wont cut it . Panny is alls that is left.
post #201 of 1445
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

What problems? Panasonic Plasmas have the lowest defect rate of any TV you can buy. Customer service can be hit or miss, but for the most part it's still better than with the other brands. If yours had a blank screen well then that sucks of course, but there is no way any manufacturer can ensure a 100% reliability rate on the hundreds of little electronic components that make up a TV.
Crying and complaining about it won't change anything, that's just the nature of modern electronics.

While I respect your knowledge and experience and enjoy reading your posts, you obviously are not one of the Panasonic customers who bought a set with increasing black levels that cannot be fixed. I spent $2,440 on my 50PZ800U, and it looked great when I first started using it. After only 4% of the advertised lifespan of the panel, the set no longer looked great on most material. Now my set cannot be tuned such that I have good blacks and good shadow detail. It looks great on some material, but is more often "fair" looking at best.

Panasonic even sent someone to test my TV. This person was either inept or flat-out lied. He said my set was operating normally. When I showed him that I couldn't see any details of, for example, John Stewart's jacket, he showed me that all I had to do is change my Dark black setting to Light and, voilà !, problem solved. Except that everything then looks washed-out. No discerning consumer one would have bought these sets given the devil's choice of those two picture settings.

Perhaps if you had wasted your money on a set that was supposed to last many years, and that Panasonic washed their hands of, you would be more sympathetic to those who had. It is not a pleasant experience. :/
Edited by johnnylighton - 12/3/12 at 1:30pm
post #202 of 1445
Setting the dark setting to "dark" will clip the blacks (detail) on any Panasonic plasma, with or without the increasing black level issue.
post #203 of 1445
Quote:
Originally Posted by slimoli View Post

Setting the dark setting to "dark" will clip the blacks (detail) on any Panasonic plasma, with or without the increasing black level issue.

Yep. Although maybe his blacks have risen to the point where keeping black level on light looks unacceptable?

In any case, on both Panny plasmas I've had, setting black level to dark always obscures detail. I keep it on light all the time.
post #204 of 1445
The TV can no longer be tuned so that the PQ is decent. It looks like the model it replaced, the 50PZ700. That model had poor black levels. I had been waiting for a more-affordable alternative to the Kuro, and I would not have bought the PZ700. When I pulled the trigger on my 50PZ800U, it was the first Panny set that was a viable alternative to Kuro. It wasn't as good as Kuro, but it was gorgeous in its own right. But no longer. I am experienced with video, and my electrical engineer friend who is equally experienced worked with me twice trying to tune this TV. Its black levels have risen so much that it cannot tuned to look good.

I don't want to derail this thread, but the comment about not crying and complaining about Panasonic's customer service struck a nerve in me. Sorry for the distraction. Let's please refer further follow-ups to my post to the Panasonic Black Levels Doubled Overnight thread (http://www.avsforum.com/t/1167339/panasonic-11g-12g-13g-black-levels-have-seemingly-doubled-overnight) - thanks. smile.gif
post #205 of 1445
Quote:
Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

Could one of you rank the top 3 improvements in the VT60 (over the VT50) in order of confidence that it is accurate?

So far we know about a new phosphor tech and a new noise reduction system. Most likely some silver trim, again...
post #206 of 1445
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnylighton View Post

While I respect your knowledge and experience and enjoy reading your posts, you obviously are not one of the Panasonic customers who bought a set with increasing black levels that cannot be fixed....... Perhaps if you had wasted your money on a set that was supposed to last many years, and that Panasonic washed their hands of, you would be more sympathetic to those who had. It is not a pleasant experience. :/

Actually if you check my sig you'll see i have a G10 which is the MOST ADVERSELY affected model in the whole Black-Level-Rising fiasco so i'm absolutely sympathetic to my fellow 2009 model owners. The 2009 model lineup's black levels rose more than the 2008 lineup did so my TV was much more adversely affected than yours was. I was pissed and stated my displeasure about it here and there, but i didn't create one single sour-grapes thread or even post complaining about Panasonic's quality or customer service. They screwed up, and i was one of the victims. The TV still looks great during the daytime or at night with a few lights on low, but yeah it sucks that it's blacks are so much brighter than my GT50. It's wasn't a complete waste of money, but i definitely didn't get the performance i thought i was paying for.



Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnylighton View Post

I don't want to derail this thread, but the comment about not crying and complaining about Panasonic's customer service struck a nerve in me. Sorry for the distraction. Let's please refer further follow-ups to my post to the Panasonic Black Levels Doubled Overnight thread

But the whole incessant 2008/2009 Black Level Rising thing has nothing whatsover to do with what i said to Carpetweb so i don't get why you're even bringing it up to me.

My comment about him "not crying and complaining" was specifically in response to Carpetweb creating an AVS account just to post complaints, and it had nothing to do with his issues with customer service and everything to do with his claim that Panasonic has some sort of "circuit board problem", and that there will never be a 100% reliable TV as that is impossible. Nothing more.
post #207 of 1445
Hi Randy. cw said, "sure would be nice if they would concentrate on correcting the problems with their plasma's and their customer service....." You responded, "What problems? Panasonic Plasmas have the lowest defect rate of any TV you can buy....Crying and complaining about it won't change anything, that's just the nature of modern electronics." To me that sounded as if people who did experience problems with both the unit and the resulting customer service and then posted about it were criers and complainers. This is what got me upset. I know that you were also saying that Panasonic is overall a good company as far as customer service goes.

But I disagree with your suggestion. I believe complaining is the ONLY way to get them to act. Enough that it makes other people not buy their sets. Panasonic DOES NOT CARE otherwise. I know this from dealing with a high-level executive over this issue. I don't care if they go under. I can't forgive $2,440. I recommended the G10 to a good friend of mine, and had also bought my MIL another 50PZ800U for $1,860 which has the same problem ("why does my TV look so light?"), so that's a total of about $5,500 that they've ripped off from my family and my friend. They misrepresented the black level specs, then when there was an obvious defect they claimed that they could not repair the sets because of a pending class action lawsuit. This is absolute scummy behavior.

If you find yourself 25 minutes north of El Segundo, you are most welcome to stop by and see how my set looks, just PM me in advance. In any event, I do enjoy your posts.
post #208 of 1445
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

What problems? Panasonic Plasmas have the lowest defect rate of any TV you can buy. Customer service can be hit or miss, but for the most part it's still better than with the other brands. If yours had a blank screen well then that sucks of course, but there is no way any manufacturer can ensure a 100% reliability rate on the hundreds of little electronic components that make up a TV.
Crying and complaining about it won't change anything, that's just the nature of modern electronics.





Not crying but Yes i'm complaining. Before I purchased my set, I contacted panasonic and asked about the problems with previous model years and was told that those problems have now been fixed with the model I was looking at and that I had no need to be concerned. Now 2 years later when I spoke with the service dept and the executive office, they won't even acknowledge they've ever had a problem. They are still having the same problems they've had for years. Do the research. It seems there are 3 Boards that are more problematic than the others, with The SC Board being one of the hardest boards to find. The other 2 boards are the Power board and the A board. I know all brands will have some problems, but not to the extent that panasonic seems to be having. Maybe when you spend hundreds of dollars on a tv and it only last 2 years and then your told it will cost 300 to 400 to fix you'll understand. I was told that my problem was the power board when in fact it was the sc board. I've been in electronics since 1975 and was able to fix the set myself for 80 bucks. Its Not the nature of modern electronics, in fact, modern day electronics have made products better and to last longer. You are right there will be some failures from time to time but shouldn't be to the extent that its happening with panasonic tv's. When there are 7 transistors out 15 that go bad in one circuit......there's a problem. The only way panasonic will do anything is if people quit buying their inferior products and the only way people will do that is if they are educated. I was lied to by panasonic, and i say that because they admitted to me they had problems with earlier model years before I purchased my 2010 model , but when I ended up with the same problems and found countless others in the same fix, they say they have never had those problems and won't admit to any because there are no recalls.
You keep buying their products if you wish but as for me, I choose not to spend any more money with this company.....and yes I will continue to educate others about panasonic products and poor customer service. Call it crying if you wish!
post #209 of 1445
carpetweb, everyone knows about this issue and we're over it. Let's talk about the 2013 sets- not rising blacks, not lumen/watt, just the 2013 set.
post #210 of 1445
The 2013 sets will be the same as the previous years....same problems just different day.....I don't think everyone knows about this issue or that everyone is over it. Do you really want to do business with a company that will lie to get you to buy their product or one that knows there is a problem but does nothing about it. I'm very fortunate that i'm able to troubleshoot and fix my set. If I hadn't been able to do it myself, it wouldn't have been cost efficient to have had it fixed, but its also a repair that shouldn't have had to been made. When I talked to a service department to verify my diagnosis I was told that panasonic is what kept them in business......Something to think about for sure........
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