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What can we expect from 2013 Panasonic Plasmas? - Page 17

post #481 of 1446
1/11/13 at 2:23pm
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Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

And what is an F8500??

Sounds like an Oldmobile from the '70s.
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post #482 of 1446
1/11/13 at 2:27pm
Panasonic seems to have a year on and year off approach when it comes to picture improvements. Chances are, next year will bring more picture quality improvements across the entire lineup. With that said, I'm curious to find out if there is in fact any difference between the ST60 and last years model.
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post #483 of 1446
1/11/13 at 5:27pm
Check out the following Link , about half way down are some comments and pics of a Calibration App for iOS and Android for the new Panasonics....

http://cave.hometheaterhifi.com/profiles/blogs/ces-2013-chris-heinonen?xg_source=activity

No mention of how it interfaces or what Sensor is used . I wonder if it is SpectraCAL driven ? No mention on their Web Site...yet biggrin.gif

Scott.......................
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post #484 of 1446
1/11/13 at 5:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveZ06 View Post

Panasonic seems to have a year on and year off approach when it comes to picture improvements. Chances are, next year will bring more picture quality improvements across the entire lineup. With that said, I'm curious to find out if there is in fact any difference between the ST60 and last years model.

They do seem to be like that. Perhaps the ZT60 panel is used for the ST and VT next year?
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post #485 of 1446
1/12/13 at 6:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

They do seem to be like that. Perhaps the ZT60 panel is used for the ST and VT next year?

I'm hoping that this is the minimum next year and that there is a really good chance of a radically redesigned new panel for 2014 across the range.

Even if Panasonic goes down to 2-3 series of plasmas next year, it looks like they aren't going to do OLED without 4k.
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post #486 of 1446
1/12/13 at 7:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmarceau View Post

I'm hoping that this is the minimum next year and that there is a really good chance of a radically redesigned new panel for 2014 across the range.

Even if Panasonic goes down to 2-3 series of plasmas next year, it looks like they aren't going to do OLED without 4k.

Pocket-lint is not a site that I normally deem very reliable but this link appears quite interesting:

http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/49203/panasonic-replacing-lcd-factory-with-oled-production-facility

This bit may or may not be interesting:

"Also interesting was the information that it’s pretty much impossible to convert a plasma TV facility into one that produces OLEDs. Instead, when plasma TVs finally make their exit, it will apparently be easier for Panasonic to turn the plant into a solar panel factory. Fascinating stuff, and a little mind-boggling."

Edit: The point I am making is that with Panasonic at least, it appears that LCD is going to make a more rapid exit than plasma. Clearly, R&D expense is going to rapidly decline but there will probably be a 2014 plasma. They will outsource LCD panels as they have been doing but this will be a stopgap. Has anybody commented on their LCD line at CES when last year they were essentially flops in sales and performance?
Edited by PeterG - 1/12/13 at 7:57pm
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post #487 of 1446
1/14/13 at 5:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

They do seem to be like that. Perhaps the ZT60 panel is used for the ST and VT next year?

Good chance they probably will in my opinion...
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post #488 of 1446
1/14/13 at 8:54pm
The real question is with 2014 perhaps being the last year for Panasonic plasma--will the 2014s be improved versus the 2013s? Or will plasmas last year actually be 2015?
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post #489 of 1446
1/14/13 at 10:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

The real question is with 2014 perhaps being the last year for Panasonic plasma--will the 2014s be improved versus the 2013s? Or will plasmas last year actually be 2015?

There is speculation on top of speculation here. This is where I draw the line. rolleyes.gif
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post #490 of 1446
1/14/13 at 11:23pm
Wake up and smell the coffee! Samsung and LG drastically cutting back plasma models only means one thing! Plasma won't be here very much longer.

The trick will be to buy the last great best ones before we have to face the horror story of complete LCD domination!
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post #491 of 1446
1/14/13 at 11:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

Wake up and smell the coffee! Samsung and LG drastically cutting back plasma models only means one thing! Plasma won't be here very much longer.

The trick will be to buy the last great best ones before we have to face the horror story of complete LCD domination!

2014-15 is a huge stretch however. They don't even have a viable replacement tech yet.
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post #492 of 1446
1/15/13 at 3:32am

Quote:
"The first contact with the new reference for the Panasonic plasma technology is embarrassing: the black level reached - and perhaps even exceeded - that of the Kuro, with deep colors and high brightness"

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.avmagazine.it%2Fnews%2Ftelevisori%2Fces-contatto-con-il-panasonic-zt60_7520.html&act=url
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post #493 of 1446
1/15/13 at 3:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by weedeater View Post


I stand by my prediction that Panasonic will be out of the TV business by the end of 2013.

Wow. Pioneer tore out our hearts a few years back and now one of the only decent plasma options may also go away. You gotta hand it to the led marketing teams. They've done a great job at pimping their inferior, overpriced, gimmicky TVs. It's what people are buying though. Or, they are too cheap to buy uality so if they do get a plasma it's a Wally World certified set. My goshness, at this rate I guess I'll be keeping my 8th gen KURO forever. wink.gif
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post #494 of 1446
1/15/13 at 4:14am

Quote:
The thing is, though, in the years that we’ve been waiting for OLED to become an actual thing, plasma snuck up and nipped its heels in all of those aspects. Panasonic’s ZT60-series plasmas are being hailed as the best display of the show by many of my colleagues, and deservedly so. The blacks are nigh perfect. Brightness is approaching LED/LCD levels. Colors are just startlingly good.
Quote:
Really, you could have hidden the signage in front of the display and convinced me it was OLED.

I also popped by Samsung’s booth to check out the new 8 Series plasmas, and if they’re not just as good as the Panasonic ZT60s, they’re really stinkin’ close. I suspect that many of my colleagues are giving Panny the nod because the demo material in that booth is more dynamic, with starker contrasts and more Crayola colors. What I would love to do is put them side-by-side running the same demo reel (preferably Panasonic’s) and see if either comes out on top.

http://www.residentialsystems.com/default.aspx?tabid=90&EntryId=516
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post #495 of 1446
1/15/13 at 4:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by s2mikey View Post

Wow. Pioneer tore out our hearts a few years back and now one of the only decent plasma options may also go away. You gotta hand it to the led marketing teams. They've done a great job at pimping their inferior, overpriced, gimmicky TVs. It's what people are buying though. Or, they are too cheap to buy uality so if they do get a plasma it's a Wally World certified set. My goshness, at this rate I guess I'll be keeping my 8th gen KURO forever. wink.gif

You lament the potential loss of plasma, but have not invested in plasma's commercial viability since 2008?

This is the year the enthusiast crowd should pick up a new plasma - to demonstrate niche demand and possibly prolong its demise.
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post #496 of 1446
1/15/13 at 4:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by alucard3 View Post



http://www.residentialsystems.com/default.aspx?tabid=90&EntryId=516

The theme of plasma eating oled's lunch at this year's ces has even been found on the lcd forum, which is surely anathema to the converts holding out for the messiah of $1,500 55" oled vizios at costco.
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post #497 of 1446
1/15/13 at 6:55am
I'm pretty pumped about the 60" ZT60. Hoping many shoot for the 65" and the prices on the tiny 60" become reasonable. Hoping for just under $3,000 by mid-Summer.
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post #498 of 1446
1/15/13 at 7:57am
So how exactly do we see the new red in all it's glory in the real world when it's already capped when translated to blu-ray disc or cable? The whole "the new red brings this color gamut back" is laughable. No, sorry, it doesn't. Think about .MP3, once your .WAV is compressed it doesn't matter if you have mono Macantosh tube amps driving the sound, the quality is gone FOR GOOD. It can never be "converted back". Same goes with film dithering. Isn't raw content of a blu-ray like 125GB per 5 minutes of movie before compression? Maybe they had a 20 minute loop hooked up to a 1TB external drive showing RAW data in all it's glory at the booth demo but your Beavis and Butthead DVD's aren't going to look as stunning.

Oh and Chris from CP chiming in and saying how much better the blacks were over the VT, priceless. You think a sales guy is going to tell you "meh, I couldn't really tell the difference". LOL, that was beautiful.

The ZT is going to be stunning I'm sure but I'm not buying the hype of a side to side "both in cinema mode untouched" shoot out that was set up by the company who makes the TV's! Like they couldn't go into the guts of the VT and pump the brightness without messing with the onscreen menu...c'mon.

I'm not trying to knock this release or the hype and be a downer but I think I'll wait for a real world product to be released before I start tobogganing on my now crappy 65" VT50....
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post #499 of 1446
1/15/13 at 9:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by copene View Post

So how exactly do we see the new red in all it's glory in the real world when it's already capped when translated to blu-ray disc or cable? The whole "the new red brings this color gamut back" is laughable. No, sorry, it doesn't. Think about .MP3, once your .WAV is compressed it doesn't matter if you have mono Macantosh tube amps driving the sound, the quality is gone FOR GOOD. It can never be "converted back". Same goes with film dithering. Isn't raw content of a blu-ray like 125GB per 5 minutes of movie before compression? Maybe they had a 20 minute loop hooked up to a 1TB external drive showing RAW data in all it's glory at the booth demo but your Beavis and Butthead DVD's aren't going to look as stunning.

Oh and Chris from CP chiming in and saying how much better the blacks were over the VT, priceless. You think a sales guy is going to tell you "meh, I couldn't really tell the difference". LOL, that was beautiful.

The ZT is going to be stunning I'm sure but I'm not buying the hype of a side to side "both in cinema mode untouched" shoot out that was set up by the company who makes the TV's! Like they couldn't go into the guts of the VT and pump the brightness without messing with the onscreen menu...c'mon.

I'm not trying to knock this release or the hype and be a downer but I think I'll wait for a real world product to be released before I start tobogganing on my now crappy 65" VT50....

+'bout a million. Can't wait for reviews on the Touch Pen. All I can say is, That's marketing!
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post #500 of 1446
1/15/13 at 11:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by copene View Post

So how exactly do we see the new red in all it's glory in the real world when it's already capped when translated to blu-ray disc or cable? The whole "the new red brings this color gamut back" is laughable. No, sorry, it doesn't. Think about .MP3, once your .WAV is compressed it doesn't matter if you have mono Macantosh tube amps driving the sound, the quality is gone FOR GOOD. It can never be "converted back". Same goes with film dithering. Isn't raw content of a blu-ray like 125GB per 5 minutes of movie before compression? Maybe they had a 20 minute loop hooked up to a 1TB external drive showing RAW data in all it's glory at the booth demo but your Beavis and Butthead DVD's aren't going to look as stunning.

Oh and Chris from CP chiming in and saying how much better the blacks were over the VT, priceless. You think a sales guy is going to tell you "meh, I couldn't really tell the difference". LOL, that was beautiful.

The ZT is going to be stunning I'm sure but I'm not buying the hype of a side to side "both in cinema mode untouched" shoot out that was set up by the company who makes the TV's! Like they couldn't go into the guts of the VT and pump the brightness without messing with the onscreen menu...c'mon.

I'm not trying to knock this release or the hype and be a downer but I think I'll wait for a real world product to be released before I start tobogganing on my now crappy 65" VT50....

I hear what you are saying about the red, but keep in mind you can have two displays each with somewhat different looking red that are measuring rather well with low delta error due to how the math works, etc. It will be interesting indeed to see what these new models look like.
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post #501 of 1446
1/15/13 at 12:47pm
The best way to check out the red is by viewing the National Champion Alabama Crimson Tide who are better than lucky--they're flat out #1!
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post #502 of 1446
1/15/13 at 12:48pm
But they weren't as good as Texas A&M Maroon
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post #503 of 1446
1/15/13 at 12:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveZ06 View Post

Panasonic seems to have a year on and year off approach when it comes to picture improvements. Chances are, next year will bring more picture quality improvements across the entire lineup. With that said, I'm curious to find out if there is in fact any difference between the ST60 and last years model.

I think I heard something about an active shutter filter.

I don't think this year's ST would justify an upgrade over last year's model, nor the price tag. wink.gif

I am curious about the ZT which is what will draw me to this year's shootout, that and hoping that David will return this year. biggrin.gif
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post #504 of 1446
1/15/13 at 12:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

Wake up and smell the coffee! Samsung and LG drastically cutting back plasma models only means one thing! Plasma won't be here very much longer.

The trick will be to buy the last great best ones before we have to face the horror story of complete LCD domination!

Interesting, all this talk about Panasonic, Samsung and LG leaving the Plasma business soon. I mentioned this a few weeks back and got slammed dunked here of people telling me that I don't know what I'm talking about and that I misunderstood what the person meant when they said it.
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post #505 of 1446
1/15/13 at 1:08pm
Panasonic sure went through a lot of trouble in introducing a new flagship model if they're set to exit Plasma at any moment now. Their financial situation would obviously be the only cause of them abandoning it completely.
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post #506 of 1446
1/15/13 at 1:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Panasonic sure went through a lot of trouble in introducing a new flagship model if they're set to exit Plasma at any moment now. Their financial situation would obviously be the only cause of them abandoning it completely.
That and the fact both Samsung and LG introduced new models.
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post #507 of 1446
1/15/13 at 1:20pm
^And Samdung apparently with one that is extremely competitive with Panny's flagship...so 2 companies are taking Plasma development rather seriously, even in our time of doom.
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post #508 of 1446
1/15/13 at 1:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by copene View Post

I'm not trying to knock this release or the hype and be a downer but I think I'll wait for a real world product to be released before I start tobogganing on my now crappy 65" VT50....

That's a great quote!!
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post #509 of 1446
1/16/13 at 7:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Panasonic sure went through a lot of trouble in introducing a new flagship model if they're set to exit Plasma at any moment now. Their financial situation would obviously be the only cause of them abandoning it completely.

Agreed. Panasonic has shown more commitment to Plasma than the other two companies for 2013 with five models being announced - one less model than their 2012 lineup had. Samsung on the other hand has slashed their lineup from over 5 models to only two (entry level 720p and one expensive flagship), and i understand LG has reduced their 2013 lineup to only two models as well.

Samsung and LG are very heavily invested in LED technology so it's not surprising that they'd move more eggs into their LED baskets. But Panasonic is much more vested in PDP and not so much in LED and i actually think they'll see an increase in PDP sales now with the competition not having much to offer this year. Panasonic really has no reason to abandon Plasma yet since they're comparatively cheap to make, they still have the best overall picture quality, they sell for much less than even the most inferior LED sets, and OLED won't be a viable or financial alternative for at least a few years if not longer. Until OLED is ready for prime time and at affordable prices, i just don't see Panasonic abandoning Plasma any time soon.
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post #510 of 1446
1/16/13 at 7:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

Agreed. Panasonic has shown more commitment to Plasma than the other two companies for 2013 with five models being announced - one less model than their 2012 lineup had. Samsung on the other hand has slashed their lineup from over 5 models to only two (entry level 720p and one expensive flagship), and i understand LG has reduced their 2013 lineup to only two models as well.

Samsung and LG are very heavily invested in LED technology so it's not surprising that they'd move more eggs into their LED baskets. But Panasonic is much more vested in PDP and not so much in LED and i actually think they'll see an increase in PDP sales now with the competition not having much to offer this year. Panasonic really has no reason to abandon Plasma yet since they're comparatively cheap to make, they still have the best overall picture quality, they sell for much less than even the most inferior LED sets, and OLED won't be a viable or financial alternative for at least a few years if not longer. Until OLED is ready for prime time and at affordable prices, i just don't see Panasonic abandoning Plasma any time soon.

Thanks for that factual info Randy.
Edited by copene - 1/16/13 at 8:20am
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