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What can we expect from 2013 Panasonic Plasmas? - Page 18

post #511 of 1445
It's going to take everything in me not to jump on a closeout 65" VT50 as I'm pretty darn confident the 60's going to be the new (and decidedly so) benchmark for televisions that actual humans can afford.

Already trying to justify the price...

"what's another $1000 over the next 4-5 years?"

crap.

James
post #512 of 1445
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

It's going to take everything in me not to jump on a closeout 65" VT50 as I'm pretty darn confident the 60's going to be the new (and decidedly so) benchmark for televisions that actual humans can afford.

Already trying to justify the price...

"what's another $1000 over the next 4-5 years?"

crap.

James

I wonder what kind of a closeout deal I could get on a ST50 in a 65in
screen and if the ST60 will be any better.
post #513 of 1445
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

Panasonic really has no reason to abandon Plasma yet since they're comparatively cheap to make, they still have the best overall picture quality, they sell for much less than even the most inferior LED sets, and OLED won't be a viable or financial alternative for at least a few years if not longer.
I'd love that the the superior quality of Panasonic plasmas would be so obvious to the common consumer.
post #514 of 1445
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

..... Panasonic has shown more commitment to Plasma than the other two companies for 2013 with five models being announced - one less model than their 2012 lineup had. Samsung on the other hand has slashed their lineup from over 5 models to only two (entry level 720p and one expensive flagship), and i understand LG has reduced their 2013 lineup to only two models as well.

I may have spoken too soon - during CES, publications were reporting that Samsung will only have two Plasma models in 2013 (a F8500 Flagship and F4500 entry-level) but in the F8500 thread a gent posted a PDF Chart showing they're also planning an F5300 and F5500 model.
post #515 of 1445
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdanderson View Post

I wonder what kind of a closeout deal I could get on a ST50 in a 65in
screen and if the ST60 will be any better.

I'm wondering the same thing!

I looked at an ST50, GT 50 and VT50. And could not tell the difference (ya I'm sure with the right movie I could something)

But they all looked amazing, but the 60" looks small beside the 65", so I want a 65 now smile.gif
post #516 of 1445
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

I would like to see next years Panasonics produce a sharper crisper image like the previous models did. The 2012s are soft and lacking detail on 720p sources and content - my old 2009 G10 is much crisper and much more detailed with those same exact sources. Even 1080i content is a little softer, but it's nowhere near as bad as it is on 720p. It's the only thing i don't like about my GT50 and it astounds me that Panasonic would let this happen on the 2012 models. But my new Darbee Dablet has greatly improved this issue and adds detail that the TV should have been displaying in the first place, but even with the Darbee the GT50 still isn't as crisp as my G10.

I have to agree..I also have the Gen-10 65" 720p, the PQ is sharp and exact. My TH was made in Japan and frankly I'm not sure about the new Panasonics?
post #517 of 1445
^^^^

You aren't using a pre/pro or receiver that has upscaling capabilities?
post #518 of 1445
Randy Walters: The ZT-60 is moving closer and closer to Pioneer 9.5g Kuro quality.

Do you think Panasonic will produce a plasma that will be better than the greatest Kuro before they exit the plasma business?

Take your best guess as to WHEN: 2014, 2015, or 2016?

P.S. I'm guessing that there is no way that Panasonic will produce plasmas after 2016--do you think I'm right or wrong about that?
post #519 of 1445
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

Randy Walters: The ZT-60 is moving closer and closer to Pioneer 9.5g Kuro quality.

Do you think Panasonic will produce a plasma that will be better than the greatest Kuro before they exit the plasma business?

Take your best guess as to WHEN: 2014, 2015, or 2016?

P.S. I'm guessing that there is no way that Panasonic will produce plasmas after 2016--do you think I'm right or wrong about that?

This kind of post is unproductive frankly...especially in that your post lacks any credible basis. no one has tested these units empirically and we have no idea where in the mll pantheon they will fall.
post #520 of 1445
Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

This kind of post is unproductive frankly...especially in that your post lacks any credible basis. no one has tested these units empirically and we have no idea where in the mll pantheon they will fall.

Actually from all the reports it looks like the ZT60 will suprass the last Kuro...
post #521 of 1445
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardia View Post

Actually from all the reports it looks like the ZT60 will suprass the last Kuro...

That would be premature seeing how those werent even production units at the show.
post #522 of 1445
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardia View Post

Actually from all the reports it looks like the ZT60 will suprass the last Kuro...
ALL of them? Not quite.
post #523 of 1445
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardia View Post

Actually from all the reports it looks like the ZT60 will suprass the last Kuro...
more nonsense, who has reviewed one, what just like the vt 30, then the 50, oh dear, probably haven't even started production yet:eek:
post #524 of 1445
Guys, after hearing about the zt60, if they don't beat the 9.5G this year, it'll happen next year when they launch improved tech across the range. And with the way Samsung is headed, maybe they'll do it first.

With oled showing up soon, and not having having high yields, they have to have a cost effective solution and they know it. I wouldn't be too surprised if panny and Sammy go 4k in their top of the range plasmas next year.
post #525 of 1445
Just curious, lets say they kept all things unchanged with the zt60 but make it 4k.....would that result in a dimmer picture, or would it have no bearing on brightness?
post #526 of 1445
Quote:
Originally Posted by skro View Post

Just curious, lets say they kept all things unchanged with the zt60 but make it 4k.....would that result in a dimmer picture, or would it have no bearing on brightness?

It's actually not possible to answer that. Each cell would likely be fairly dim, but there'd be four of them for every pixel in a 1080p model and they could probably be driven fairly hard.

But it's an academic question because no one can say what engineering choices were made to make the 4K model until they actually make the 4K model.

Please note, you are likely to receive answers that contradict this based on a lot of baseless speculation people have read elsewhere. Those answers are most probably wrong, but if someone should prove otherwise, I'd be willing to discuss it further.
post #527 of 1445
Well played, sir. Well played.
Quote:
Originally Posted by billmich View Post

But they weren't as good as Texas A&M Maroon
post #528 of 1445
The current VT series is already a lot better than the Kuros in many picture quality aspects. You know, little things like brightness, whites, color accuracy, contrast, etc...so I think its pretty safe to say that the new ZT series will be better than the Kuro in almost all areas. Time to put this meme to bed and move on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

Randy Walters: The ZT-60 is moving closer and closer to Pioneer 9.5g Kuro quality.

Do you think Panasonic will produce a plasma that will be better than the greatest Kuro before they exit the plasma business?

Take your best guess as to WHEN: 2014, 2015, or 2016?

P.S. I'm guessing that there is no way that Panasonic will produce plasmas after 2016--do you think I'm right or wrong about that?
post #529 of 1445
Try to put to bed all the Kuro owners--they won't be put to bed until it is proven that the ZT-60 is better.

The sales force always wants to put to bed any comparisons with the best Kuro--the fact is until someone produces a better set then the best Kuro then picture quality really hasn't gotten anywhere!
post #530 of 1445
Sometimes I wish I could filter out all posts that contain that word.
I don't have one, I never will, and the talk about it really seems to side track every thread.....
Just my meaningless 2 cent rant.
post #531 of 1445
Quote:
Originally Posted by billmich View Post

Sometimes I wish I could filter out all posts that contain that word.
I don't have one, I never will, and the talk about it really seems to side track every thread.....
Just my meaningless 2 cent rant.
well it is the the panel to compare the latest and best too , says it all really 4 years old and still number 1:rolleyes: oh we have improved, with 3d, smart tv, slimmer bezel, please.
post #532 of 1445
How about creating a kuro vs panny thread and have all that talk go there, and........

Nevermind....lol

wink.gif
post #533 of 1445
Quote:
Originally Posted by billmich View Post

Sometimes I wish I could filter out all posts that contain that word.
I don't have one, I never will, and the talk about it really seems to side track every thread.....
Just my meaningless 2 cent rant.



I don't understand why people get upset? Why wouldn't the Kuro be mentioned? If the Kuro gets mentioned in just about every professional review of the Panasonic TVs then why wouldn't you expect it to show up?
post #534 of 1445
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubbleboyjones View Post

I don't understand why people get upset? Why wouldn't the Kuro be mentioned? If the Kuro gets mentioned in just about every professional review of the Panasonic TVs then why wouldn't you expect it to show up?

There's nothing wrong with it, but It's unproductive in a number of ways. The future of plasma, which most feel might be limited to years counted on one hand, hinges largely on what samsung and panasonic offer. Most of us here are enthusiasts and plasma remains the best technology for a videophile experience. The constant mocking of panasonic's advancement in picture quality is unproductive for those of us who have moved beyond kuro nostalgia. MLL measurements of the 60 series are probably a good two months away, so any discussion of kuro-relative black levels is merely mental masturbation at this point anyway.
post #535 of 1445
Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

There's nothing wrong with it, but It's unproductive in a number of ways. The future of plasma, which most feel might be limited to years counted on one hand, hinges largely on what samsung and panasonic offer. Most of us here are enthusiasts and plasma remains the best technology for a videophile experience. The constant mocking of panasonic's advancement in picture quality is unproductive for those of us who have moved beyond kuro nostalgia. MLL measurements of the 60 series are probably a good two months away, so any discussion of kuro-relative black levels is merely mental masturbation at this point anyway.

I owned a 5080 and then an Elite Pro-111fd. I wanted a bigger screen. Almost went to a Pro-141 or 151 by default. But everyone wants north of $3500. I opt-ed for the 65VT50. It surpasses my Kuro’s in a number of ways.

I agree the talk about Kuro is meaningless since I don’t think anyone in their right mind would pay $3500 for a 4 year old TV that gives off massive amounts of heat when they can get a 65” that has been called “mind blowing” by CNET and others for about $2300 right now. I watched Dredd last night and not once did I stop the movie and think boy i wish I had my Kuro back. In fact I often thought about how good the image looked and how true the colors were.

If anyone really wants a Kuro wait until the ZT comes out. If it’s a good as advertized I think there will be a lot of Kuros on the market at more realistic prices.
post #536 of 1445
I think Panasonic could of released a "KURO killer" already but chose to incorporate improvements in a balanced way, not just ultimate black levels. The black levels are pretty darn good already though.
post #537 of 1445
Quote:
Originally Posted by billmich View Post

Sometimes I wish I could filter out all posts that contain that word.
I don't have one, I never will, and the talk about it really seems to side track every thread.....
Just my meaningless 2 cent rant.

Agree. I've stated my stance on this before. If Kuros were still being produced, I'd understand the talk and comparisons. But you can't buy them new. Besides, how many people outside of a limited quantity really know about Kuros, or even care? Every year this comes up because a few Kuro fanboys have to come around and beat their chest proclaiming that their EOL Kuro is still the "best". Well good for you, your old tv that can't be had for new anymore has amazing blacks. Good to know, we get it. Go enjoy those inky blacks and leave the Panasonic threads to, well....Panasonic.
post #538 of 1445
Quote:
Originally Posted by jconjason View Post

Agree. I've stated my stance on this before. If Kuros were still being produced, I'd understand the talk and comparisons. But you can't buy them new. Besides, how many people outside of a limited quantity really know about Kuros, or even care? Every year this comes up because a few Kuro fanboys have to come around and beat their chest proclaiming that their EOL Kuro is still the "best". Well good for you, your old tv that can't be had for new anymore has amazing blacks. Good to know, we get it. Go enjoy those inky blacks and leave the Panasonic threads to, well....Panasonic.
If they weren't considered by many calibrators and reviewers worth their salt to be a reference panel, you might have a point. Otherwise all you have is sour grapes. Five years on, it's time for Panasonic to decidedly and soundly put the king to rest.
post #539 of 1445
Yeah, but aren't these reviewers just using the blacks as a reference? That's just one quality of a tv and from my understanding the newer panasonics are better in almost any other aspect (correct me if I'm wrong). This seems to me like comparing all new sports cars, with awesome new dash electronics, safety features, handling improvements, mpg improvements, etc. and saying "yeah, but it can't do 0-60 in a straight line as fast as my 1960's muscle car (ie, just picking 1 aspect for comparison).

I don't own, and have never seen a kuro, and I get that it is a reference point to blacks, but aren't these newer panasonics better tvs all around?
post #540 of 1445
Sure, that's the MAIN point of reference and the Panasonics certainly excel in other areas (but not all of them), but it's pretty telling when CNET reviewer, Katzmaier, admits to preferring the overall PQ of the 2008 panel:
Quote:
The only TVs that can compete with the Panasonic VT50 are the Sharp Elite and, yes, that hoary veteran the Pioneer Kuro (circa 2008). Ignoring size differences (the Kuro maxed out at 60 inches) and the fact that you can't get one anymore, I actually would still rather watch the Kuro than this Panasonic -- but it's very close. The VT50 is a better TV overall than the Sharp Elite, however, despite the latter's arguably superior black-level performance. My vote goes to the Panasonic for its more accurate color and perfect screen uniformity.
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