What can we expect from 2013 Panasonic Plasmas? - Page 22

Originally Posted by vinnie97 

I'm convinced by measurements...when we get there, we'll be the first to concede.

Rogo, was that the last panel that Pioneer demoed? Maybe you weren't wowed by the ZT60 because flat panel tech has managed to creep closer to the impressiveness of that panel since then, and you have been desensitized to these improvements over the years visiting CES on a (I presume) yearly basis. I'm just trying to rationalize why the ZT60 seemed so unimpressive to you.

Originally Posted by gmarceau 

The real question would be: how would the ZT60 handle the pioneer ECC demo material? I'm guessing it would hold it's own. It's going to be splitting hairs now between this set and oled in 2013. AVForums talked about the bezel disappearing or being extremely hard to find in that demo with the VT50 and with Panasonic trying to mimic the Elite graphics, I can only guess they feel they've arrived with a set that combines the best of pioneer and panasonic technology together. This was the plan a few years ago, it just took longer than expected.

Originally Posted by gmarceau 

I think you've said you have a 65VT50, correct me if I'm wrong. That set has measured anywhere from .0018-.0022 ft/L- essentially twice the mll of the 9G Kuros. If the ZT60 definitely looks blacker than the VT50, it's basically hitting 9G blacks or better. 2012 was already pretty close to begin with.

It'll be nice if the VT60 can show some mll improvements over the VT50, too, in addition to being priced as a GT50.

Originally Posted by [Irishman] 

No, it wouldn't, otherwise people would all buy the Sharp 80" and 90" sets with the awful video processing.

Originally Posted by rogo 


Yes, gmarceau, I have a VT50. So 2x the Kuro black level, then. I suppose it's possible the ZT60 will in fact test at half that, though I question how anyone eyeballed that with any precision.

As for pricing, Panasonic seemed pretty adamant that $1000 or so over VT MSRP was where ZT was headed.

Originally Posted by gmarceau 

I think if you could clearly tell that the ZT was blacker than the VT, then this set is definitely hitting 9-9.5G kuro territory, possibly better- it's not like someone can easily eyeball .007 v. .008 ft/L, so this is telling me that there is a good chance it's a nice drop from the VT50 in mll and possibly the blackest plasma commerically released. The ring demo stuff is OLED now, so since that's being shown on the show floor at multiple locations, I could see how it's less impressive now.

The Panasonic insider is hinting at the VT60 series being closer in line with what the mid-range GT50 series was going for last year, so that might $1000 price premium might be a little more forgiving.

Originally Posted by Bubbleboyjones 

Kuro's can't be made now. They weren't profitable, they were super expensive and didn't meet current regs for energy. So yes, its going to take some time to reengineer things to get back to the "Kuro PQ" while maintaining reasonable prices for a recession and meeting energy regs. If Ferrari stop selling cars despite being better than the competition and Chevrolet buys the Ferrari patents, they still might need years to make the Corvette near the Ferrari performance while meeting regulations on emissions and having a price that supports its sale in a recession

Originally Posted by billmich 

Me wonders if the VT50 was fully calibrated to its peak performance

Then again, I'm a skeptic like that

Originally Posted by rogo 

Yeah, I think that's it. As we get closer, the margin seems less and less impressive. I don't want to give the impression that it wasn't good; the ZT60 is going to be very good. I just wasn't like, "OMG, this is freaking amazing."
So, I'll have to concur with AVForums here. It was a good demo. What it didn't have was the "wow" of that Kuro demo from back when. But that's probably because the baseline VT50 was so much better than what existed back in 2008? 2009? Whatever year that was.
Yes, gmarceau, I have a VT50. So 2x the Kuro black level, then. I suppose it's possible the ZT60 will in fact test at half that, though I question how anyone eyeballed that with any precision.

As for pricing, Panasonic seemed pretty adamant that $1000 or so over VT MSRP was where ZT was headed, which was intimated to mean $4500 MSRP. Of course, things can change, but that was the number I was left with after multiple conversations. Whenever I tried to suggest "maybe $4000?", I found myself being talked back up higher.

Originally Posted by JimP 

Rogo

Even if the ZT60 can meet Kuro blacks, isn't there still the issue that 2013 plasmas will have much more aggressive ABL circuits that 2008/2009 Kuros? Therefore, it can only be so good given current energy star requirements.

Originally Posted by rogo 

Panasonic VT50 plasmas do not meet Energy Star requirements, nor will the ZT60.

Originally Posted by rogo 

Panasonic VT50 plasmas do not meet Energy Star requirements, nor will the ZT60.

And from what I know, the VT50 calibrated at least matches the Kuro, doing 40+ ft/L...[/
quote]

The 9G's could comfortably go past 51 FTL.

Perhaps more if used with an external processor like a Lumagen radiance.

But why anyone needs that bright is beyond me. My KRP500 calibrated on ISF night is more than bright enough for 'normal' daylight viewing for me. If it gets too sunny i just close the blinds a bit. It's on approx 32ftl and that's enough for me imo.

Originally Posted by billmich 

Me wonders if the VT50 was fully calibrated to its peak performance

I wondered that myself. Why would they want the VT50 maxed out at full potential...That wouldnt make sense from a manufacturer pov. As there wouldn't be the "obvious" difference that we are lead to believe. Nor would that make business sense to anyone hoping it would indeed make a worthwhile 'upgrade' from a VT50

Then again, I'm a skeptic like that

Originally Posted by Stu03 

Yes i thought the calibrated blacks of the last Kuro's were 0.0005 or 4, that sort of thing. So to be discernible in a batcave side by side realistically it will need to be basicaly 0mll. These Kuro's were literally 1 click down of the brightness, from being 0mll. The 0mll prototype wasn't that far off which is a shame. If that had made it to market then 0mll black would be old news by now incredibly. And all the other plasma makers would have had to up the game long before now from a consumer display perspective.

But i guess it's a moot point as it didn't happen. (But what might of been imho)

Originally Posted by billmich 

Me wonders if the VT50 was fully calibrated to its peak performance

Then again, I'm a skeptic like that

Originally Posted by D-Nice 

The ZT60 and VT50 were both in Cinema mode. Its kind of interesting why that was done as the black level measures higher in Cinema mode. I wonder why that was done??????

Originally Posted by D-Nice 

The ZT60 and VT50 were both in Cinema mode. Its kind of interesting why that was done as the black level measures higher in Cinema mode on the VT50. I wonder why that was done??????

Originally Posted by D-Nice 

The ZT60 and VT50 were both in Cinema mode. Its kind of interesting why that was done as the black level measures higher in Cinema mode on the VT50. I wonder why that was done??????

Originally Posted by yamvmax 

LOL, well we know that panny wants to make the ZT look better than the "old" VT. But, as I saw the ZT with my own eyes, it looked FABULOUS! Dare i say IMO better than the kuro. You CANT deny that.

Originally Posted by vinnie97 

So is the ZT60 designed differently enough that you don't suspect a similar black level decrease when the ZT60 is calibrated or switched to another mode (like THX)? If not, it would seem to me that Panasonic was doing themselves a disservice by not putting the ZT60 in a separate mode. This is all just wild conjecture (on my part) right now since this is a different panel series altogether (ZT versus VT).

Originally Posted by D-Nice 

I never said it did not look good now did I? I pointed out a flaw in the comparison which would make any visual interpretations skewed. Its science... which you cannot deny.

Originally Posted by D-Nice 

The ZT60 does not act like the VT50 when in Cinema mode.

Originally Posted by DavidHir 

D-Nice, any speculation as to how much better the ZT60 will be over the VT50 when it's all said and done? A times I am a little tempted to upgrade from my 65ST30 to a 65VT50 which is going for a great price, but want to hold if the ZT60 it notably better.