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What can we expect from 2013 Panasonic Plasmas? - Page 27

post #781 of 1445
Rahzel, all your points are noted and I agree.

I was just adding the "happy owner" report vis a vis the color/greyscale on my VT50.
post #782 of 1445
Quote:
Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

Anyone?

I'm pretty sure AVJ made reference to this years glasses being a new generation, so I think not.
post #783 of 1445
AHHHH - my brain is going crazy. The deals on the VT are pretty good from what I'm reading or waiting for a new model. I know for sure I'd wait if the new models were bigger, didn't have a reflective bezel or had been reviewed by a professional and compared to the VT model but I'm actually leaning towards the VT. I almost NEVER get older tech but chances are the ZT will be at least $1200 more and I kind of consider the model I buy this year a temporary TV until an 80 to 85" 4K TV is available in a price range I can justify.
post #784 of 1445
^^^^
Consider this...the deals we're seeing today are perhaps the result of a perfect price matching storm where BB entered the price match fray. It's not sustainable from a business sense imo and there are no guarantees that we'll see such dramatic discounting again. Just my .02.
post #785 of 1445
The thing that might interest me in waiting is the slightly better blacks and better motion. The motion is extremely important to me as I tend to notice motion issues. The current price is very good though smile.gif
post #786 of 1445
Quote:
Originally Posted by boe View Post

AHHHH - my brain is going crazy. The deals on the VT are pretty good from what I'm reading or waiting for a new model. I know for sure I'd wait if the new models were bigger, didn't have a reflective bezel or had been reviewed by a professional and compared to the VT model but I'm actually leaning towards the VT. I almost NEVER get older tech but chances are the ZT will be at least $1200 more and I kind of consider the model I buy this year a temporary TV until an 80 to 85" 4K TV is available in a price range I can justify.

This is exactly my thinking as well, it's just too compelling not to try the VT50. Gary
post #787 of 1445
Did anyone who actually went to CES and saw the ZT notice any difference in the thickness of the ZT vs. the VT? Those Samsung LCDs are wonderfully thin - just curious if the plasmas are getting much thinner?
post #788 of 1445
If I remember correctly D-Nice mentioned that the ZT will not beat a Kuro 9.5G in MLL. I think he said that expect it to be below 0.0022fL. So the Kuro 9.5G Killer is not on the way , you can all rest easy now smile.gif
Edited by hungro - 2/1/13 at 9:59am
post #789 of 1445
Will BBY price matching come to an end soon?
post #790 of 1445
looks like BB extended the price match to 3/2/2013.
post #791 of 1445
Who is everyone trying to get BB to match?
post #792 of 1445
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Who is everyone trying to get BB to match?

Primarily illegitimate online dealers, save for Paul's, which has only gone gone as low as they have likely because of overstock. For the most part, Best Buy has been on point price-wise with any major retailer.
post #793 of 1445
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speakerphile View Post

Primarily illegitimate online dealers, save for Paul's, which has only gone gone as low as they have likely because of overstock. For the most part, Best Buy has been on point price-wise with any major retailer.

Right, but "on point" for a retailer is a rip-off. I usually look at MSRP and knock 30% right off. Then I'll talk. The consumer is going to be king one of these days, but for now we do what we can.
post #794 of 1445
^When exactly will the consumer be king, after all the manufacturers are bankrupt or running sweatshops (I think we're already there in the latter)?
post #795 of 1445
post #796 of 1445
Quote:
Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

Right, but "on point" for a retailer is a rip-off. I usually look at MSRP and knock 30% right off. Then I'll talk. The consumer is going to be king one of these days, but for now we do what we can.

This parsimony leads to the cheapest production possible, high failure rate, and ultimately disposable sets lasting months in lieu of years. The consumer may be king, but his kingdom will be full of short-lived crap. CEs are not in it to lose money.
post #797 of 1445
Quote:

Way too cheap, buying ten just to burn them all because is too cheap!

Btw, something I never like on VT50 was the light reflection. Trully bad for me.
post #798 of 1445
Quote:
Originally Posted by hungro View Post

If I remember correctly D-Nice mentioned that the ZT will not beat a Kuro 9.5G in MLL. I think he said that expect it to be below 0.0022fL. So the Kuro 9.5G Killer is not on the way , you can all rest easy now smile.gif
9.5G Kuro measures ~0.0001fL... if anyone expects the ZT60 to match that, they're delusional.

D-Nice probably said that he expects it to measure below 0.0022fL, because that's what the VT50 measures. My guess is the ZT60 will measure between 0.0008 - 0.0015, but I wouldn't be surprised if it matched a 9G Kuro (0.0005 for reference).
Edited by rahzel - 2/1/13 at 10:41pm
post #799 of 1445
Quote:
Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

Right, but "on point" for a retailer is a rip-off. I usually look at MSRP and knock 30% right off. Then I'll talk. The consumer is going to be king one of these days, but for now we do what we can.

Best Buy and Amazon have been competitive. What you call a rip-off, is the price the market supports. The prices you allude to will not support the market. The consumer is already "king". I would be interested to know what you think are "reasonable" prices, and how you are qualified to make that call.
post #800 of 1445
Quote:
Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

Right, but "on point" for a retailer is a rip-off. I usually look at MSRP and knock 30% right off. Then I'll talk. The consumer is going to be king one of these days, but for now we do what we can.

This kind of thinking is the reason why so many brick-and-mortar stores are in distress, and why CE companies aren't making money. Penny-pinching consumers have made it almost impossible for them to make a fair or even sustainable profit. MSRPs have dropped like a rock over the past 8 years to the point that they can't get much lower without compromising quality. And this year they've lowered them another $100 bucks on the smaller sizes and $200 on the larger sizes.

Last year i was watching the 50GT50 at Amazon since it debuted and over the next several months the lowest prices were hovering around the $1,349 to $1,529 range so when i happened to duck into a BB last summer while the wife was in the market next door the Magnolia section had it for $1,399 (22% off MSRP) so i bought it on the spot and we took it home with groceries piled on top of it. Back in 2005 their 50" Plasma was street priced for literally 3 times the amount i paid in 2012.

Last year Best Buy was more competitive with the online sellers than it had ever been, but i would never expect them to beat an online seller that has much less overhead nor would i want them to - that's why B&M stores close down. I've been critical of BB's business practices over the years but they've been getting better and much more competitive than they had been, even without price matching. I rewarded them by buying from them and eating the sales tax. I helped the local economy, got the TV instantly without having to wait for shipping, and had the peace of mind knowing that i could return it easily if i needed to. And i still got a great deal compared to the online sellers.
post #801 of 1445
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

9.5G Kuro measures ~0.0001fL... if anyone expects the ZT60 to match that, they're delusional.

D-Nice probably said that he expects it to measure below 0.0022fL, because that's what the VT50 measures. My guess is the ZT60 will measure between 0.0008 - 0.0015, but I wouldn't be surprised if it matched a 9G Kuro (0.0005 for reference).

Right, I think he implied that it could match the 9G sets, but it wouldn't beat his custom calibration software that can lower the black level to something lower than .0001 ft/L.

I thought the 9.5 G sets were hitting .0005 ft/L and the 9G was more like .001 ft/L or so.

Not gonna lie, the 9.5G could get darker in about 5% of the scenes in movies I watch, haha. I've made it look grey before on a few scenes in Braveheart and Gangs of New York. It amazed me how important minimum luminance is in a light controlled environment.
post #802 of 1445
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmarceau View Post

Right, I think he implied that it could match the 9G sets, but it wouldn't beat his custom calibration software that can lower the black level to something lower than .0001 ft/L.

I thought the 9.5 G sets were hitting .0005 ft/L and the 9G was more like .001 ft/L or so.

Not gonna lie, the 9.5G could get darker in about 5% of the scenes in movies I watch, haha. I've made it look grey before on a few scenes in Braveheart and Gangs of New York. It amazed me how important minimum luminance is in a light controlled environment.
You may be right. Admittedly, I haven't followed the MLL numbers of the Kuros as closely as I have the 2012 Panasonic plasmas.
post #803 of 1445
If the ZT gets down in the .001 range , I think most of us will call it a win. The only reason it would be a Kuro killer to me would be the larger screen size and the fact that it is actually available. I missed the boat on the last gen Kuro and my 8g still looks flawless to me even though its probably not much better than a VT30. I keep hoping one day ill read the article with this subject," Pioneer is getting back into the Plasma business".
post #804 of 1445
Quote:
Originally Posted by bzal1122 View Post

If the ZT gets down in the .001 range , I think most of us will call it a win. The only reason it would be a Kuro killer to me would be the larger screen size and the fact that it is actually available. I missed the boat on the last gen Kuro and my 8g still looks flawless to me even though its probably not much better than a VT30. I keep hoping one day ill read the article with this subject," Pioneer is getting back into the Plasma business".

Might as well hope for this headline:

"Pioneer is getting back into the Plasma business with a buy one get one free sale!"
post #805 of 1445
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

This kind of thinking is the reason why so many brick-and-mortar stores are in distress, and why CE companies aren't making money. Penny-pinching consumers have made it almost impossible for them to make a fair or even sustainable profit. MSRPs have dropped like a rock over the past 8 years to the point that they can't get much lower without compromising quality. And this year they've lowered them another $100 bucks on the smaller sizes and $200 on the larger sizes.

Last year i was watching the 50GT50 at Amazon since it debuted and over the next several months the lowest prices were hovering around the $1,349 to $1,529 range so when i happened to duck into a BB last summer while the wife was in the market next door the Magnolia section had it for $1,399 (22% off MSRP) so i bought it on the spot and we took it home with groceries piled on top of it. Back in 2005 their 50" Plasma was street priced for literally 3 times the amount i paid in 2012.

Last year Best Buy was more competitive with the online sellers than it had ever been, but i would never expect them to beat an online seller that has much less overhead nor would i want them to - that's why B&M stores close down. I've been critical of BB's business practices over the years but they've been getting better and much more competitive than they had been, even without price matching. I rewarded them by buying from them and eating the sales tax. I helped the local economy, got the TV instantly without having to wait for shipping, and had the peace of mind knowing that i could return it easily if i needed to. And i still got a great deal compared to the online sellers.

It is going to be a sad day when these B&M stores close up shop and we have nowhere to preview these TVs before buying.
post #806 of 1445
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

This kind of thinking is the reason why so many brick-and-mortar stores are in distress, and why CE companies aren't making money. Penny-pinching consumers have made it almost impossible for them to make a fair or even sustainable profit.

Well, this quote nearly brought me to tears! I feel so, so sorry for CE companies now and the guilt is just killing me. Where do I make a donation?

C'mon, guys. As consumers, we advocate for our own rational self-interest. And when CE companies do the same, then an agreement is reached (a purchase). MSRP is for suckers. Does it have to be that way? How much of what comprises MSRP is margin to cover the cost of replacing "dead on arrivals", etc? How much of it is importation this or that and shipping or logistical ineffeciencies. I'm not paying for that. And I get a one year warranty? Really. One year. Thanks.
post #807 of 1445
"It is going to be a sad day when these B&M stores close up shop and we have nowhere to preview these TVs before buying."

The above is the exact reason B&M stores are closing left and right....see it at Best Buy or H.H.Gregg....buy it online...
Perhaps things will change somewhat if all states enforce on line tax paying...but,will they change dramatically ? Doubtful,IMO
post #808 of 1445
Quote:
Originally Posted by hodges69 View Post

"It is going to be a sad day when these B&M stores close up shop and we have nowhere to preview these TVs before buying."

The above is the exact reason B&M stores are closing left and right....see it at Best Buy or H.H.Gregg....buy it online...
Perhaps things will change somewhat if all states enforce on line tax paying...but,will they change dramatically ? Doubtful,IMO

Charging sales tax for most online orders (which will happen eventaully after all the Nexus issues get worked out) will help somewhat, but like Randy said, online stores will always be able to undercut B&M due to overhead.
post #809 of 1445
Quote:
Originally Posted by hodges69 View Post

"It is going to be a sad day when these B&M stores close up shop and we have nowhere to preview these TVs before buying."

The above is the exact reason B&M stores are closing left and right....see it at Best Buy or H.H.Gregg....buy it online...
Perhaps things will change somewhat if all states enforce on line tax paying...but,will they change dramatically ? Doubtful,IMO

Texas recently - july 1 2012 - began charging sales tax on all amazon purchases. Coupled with bestbuy getting more competitive with most amazon prices, i have found myself consciously trying to buy local and support local employment/infrastructure.
post #810 of 1445
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

This kind of thinking is the reason why so many brick-and-mortar stores are in distress, and why CE companies aren't making money.

What does CE mean in this context?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dad0118 View Post

It is going to be a sad day when these B&M stores close up shop and we have nowhere to preview these TVs before buying.

I'm confused. Unless I've misunderstood--do tell me if I have--I frequently read the experts' advisement that you can't get a good idea of what a TV looks like in a brick and mortar store, especially when that TV is a plasma, since they jack up the cell light and contrast to self-destructive levels in order to compete with adjacent LCDs. I'm a newbie to display stuff, but it sounds very similar to the audio experts' advisement that you can't really demo speakers at a big box retailer's warehouse showroom (something I've definitely experienced firsthand).

Quote:
Originally Posted by hodges69 View Post

The above is the exact reason B&M stores are closing left and right....see it at Best Buy or H.H.Gregg....buy it online...

But, isn't that how competition works in a capitalist system? I don't mean to get all political, just asking if it's supposed to be any other way. Maybe it's a failure of my imagination, but I thought that the producer or vendor that appeals best to the customer, gets the business. The producer or vendor that doesn't evolve to meet the challenge of a changing marketplace, goes out of business. Nokia, BlackBerry (née RIM), Circuit City, et al. Frankly, I don't miss Blockbuster, not even a little. Do you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dad0118 View Post

Charging sales tax for most online orders (which will happen eventaully after all the Nexus issues get worked out) will help somewhat, but like Randy said, online stores will always be able to undercut B&M due to overhead.

You're so right about this. I bought my first plasma from a big box retailer, and when I brought it home and found that it had a shattered screen, this blue-and-yellow retailer's handling of the problem was appalling; their policy seemed to come from a time when they had no real competition, and like the cable monopolies, they never considered actually making the customer glad to do business with them. So I bought my next, more expensive plasma from the online jungle-river retailer, who have demonstrated time and time again that they completely understand how to make a customer fiercely loyal. This is even though I paid tax on the second TV. As it happens, I paid substantially less, even with tax included, than I would have paid at the blue-and-yellow. Should I have opted to pay more, for the same product, with worse policies? Would any of you guys have done that? Maybe so. Mind you, I think a lot of you have more income than I do; if I buy a new TV, it's because I planned and scrimped for months to do so. However, prices notwithstanding, I think it's sensible and proper for consumers to give more business to those companies that have more consumer-friendly policies. Are we supposed to subsidize those organizations that already profit off us, when they casually slap us in the face in exchange for our patronage?

I won't mourn the demise of the blue-and-yellow business, not even a little, because their policies, customer service and selection are all hugely inferior to those of their competitors. The rise of their business accompanied the demise of their now-defunct competitors. This is how it works, as far as I can tell.
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