What can we expect from 2013 Panasonic Plasmas? - Page 30

Originally Posted by Stu03 

I am viewing on a nearly 6" oled screen so it's quite simple really to see But most importantly - neither of the three displays is showing a full "black" minimum MLL screen. Probably for good reason.

Originally Posted by lyris 

Two points.

1. The three displays WERE showing full black minimum MLL. I was actually there and can attest to this.

Do you really think that in a black level face-off, Panasonic are going to do as you describe and have their displays show grey instead of black?

It does seem like you have a vested interest in denying that, at the moment, it appears that Panasonic have managed to come up with a better AR filter. We won't know until we test a retail unit, but it certainly looks like they have.

2. People seriously have to stop assessing display performance based on photographs. It's crazy. You have variables on both the acquisition side and display side to consider:

1. PDP sub-field drive and how it interacts with a camera.
2. Exposure.
3. Sensitivity.
4. Lens aperture.
5. Any in-camera gamma (including any low-end crush done to hide noise).
6. Any tweaks done to get the image ready for the web.
7. Your own monitor (OLED or not, it doesn't mean it's accurate and it doesn't mean it tracks accurately out of black).
8. Your own video card / GPU.
9. Any OS-side settings (color profiles etc).
10. And more that I probably forgot.

Please read this and then read it again: these are for illustrative purposes only.

Sorry to be blunt or even rude, but it needs to be said.

Originally Posted by 5150zx 

Could someone please explain the fact that the Kuro has MINUS Sharpness settings? I've never seen that before on displays? Thanks.

The bigger question is how do you know if the displays that they're comparing it too haven't had the brightness bumped up.

Originally Posted by lyris 

Two points.

1. The three displays WERE showing full black minimum MLL. I was actually there and can attest to this.

Do you really think that in a black level face-off, Panasonic are going to do as you describe and have their displays show grey instead of black?

It does seem like you have a vested interest in denying that, at the moment, it appears that Panasonic have managed to come up with a better AR filter. We won't know until we test a retail unit, but it certainly looks like they have.

2. People seriously have to stop assessing display performance based on photographs. It's crazy. You have variables on both the acquisition side and display side to consider:

1. PDP sub-field drive and how it interacts with a camera.
2. Exposure.
3. Sensitivity.
4. Lens aperture.
5. Any in-camera gamma (including any low-end crush done to hide noise).
6. Any tweaks done to get the image ready for the web.
7. Your own monitor (OLED or not, it doesn't mean it's accurate and it doesn't mean it tracks accurately out of black).
8. Your own video card / GPU.
9. Any OS-side settings (color profiles etc).
10. And more that I probably forgot.

Please read this and then read it again: these are for illustrative purposes only.

Sorry to be blunt or even rude, but it needs to be said.

Originally Posted by lyris 

This was a demonstration of black level performance and low level gradation. Panasonic wouldn't bump up the brightness. The displays were properly configured.

Had the black level been bumped up, we'd be able to see dither in the "black"/grey areas.

Originally Posted by saprano 

The thing that confuses me about the kuro picture is that the dull washed out look would only happen for 2 reasons; to high brightness or bad black levels. We all know the kuro has reference blacks. So unless the ZT60 has below 0.001 MLL?

Or maby it's the affect of the so called wider color gamut?

This is why i don't like side by side demos by manufactures. You don't what's going on behind the scenes.

What were the settings of the ZT60?

EDIT- By the way, i'm talking about the picture with the green in it.

Originally Posted by saprano 

The thing that confuses me about the kuro picture is that the dull washed out look would only happen for 2 reasons; to high brightness or bad black levels.

Originally Posted by lyris 

Neither of those are the case, as you say.

The reason the Kuro looks more washed out there is because of the lighting in the room. It's likely stronger than what almost anyone here has in their home (you can see the reflection of the light in the bezel). Assessed by eye, the KRP-600 there looked greyer than the Panasonic. The picture settings were not fudged, as we established. In a dark room they all looked outstanding.

I would share some more pictures and thoughts on the image quality differences in the comparison but I'm worried people would take them a bit too seriously!

Originally Posted by lyris 

Neither of those are the case, as you say.

The reason the Kuro looks more washed out there is because of the lighting in the room. It's likely stronger than what almost anyone here has in their home (you can see the reflection of the light in the bezel). Assessed by eye, the KRP-600 there looked greyer than the Panasonic. The picture settings were not fudged, as we established. In a dark room they all looked outstanding.

I would share some more pictures and thoughts on the image quality differences in the comparison but I'm worried people would take them a bit too seriously!

Originally Posted by saprano 

The thing that confuses me about the kuro picture is that the dull washed out look would only happen for 2 reasons; to high brightness or bad black levels. We all know the kuro has reference blacks. So unless the ZT60 has below 0.001 MLL?

Or maby it's the affect of the so called wider color gamut?

This is why i don't like side by side demos by manufactures. You don't what's going on behind the scenes.

What were the settings of the ZT60?

EDIT- By the way, i'm talking about the picture with the green in it.

Originally Posted by yamvmax 

that kuro looks EXACTLY the way my kuro looked...a lil washed out. While the blacks were great...it never had the pop I was looking for. Looking forward to the zt so I can have both pop...and black!

Originally Posted by saprano 

Then you need to check your settings. A washed out look shouldn't be happened.

Originally Posted by saprano 

But i wasn't talking about that picture. I'm talking about the one with the green glass in it. The lights are off in that picture. The 600A looks dull and washed out. Color is flat. Unless you can tell me from seeing it in person that the image on the kuro is as deep and rich as the ZT60?

Originally Posted by Yukon Trooper 

$4599.99-$4999.99

Originally Posted by jconjason 


Not sure where you're getting your info but VE is listing it at $3,949. Probably below MSRP but that wasnt the question.

Originally Posted by htwaits 

The request was for a guess. The request didn't bring up MSRP or street prices or close out prices a year from now.

Originally Posted by Bill Mac 

Will the GT50 and the ST60 have similar PQ? Does the ST60 have an improved panel over that of the GT50? I ask as I just bought a 60ST50 that I'm picking up on Sunday. If both panels are similar in design then I'll stay with the GT50. If the ST60 has the possibility of being a better display then maybe I'll cancel the order and wait. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated !

Bill