Official Pioneer SC-68/67 Thread

I waited several days for a few new owners posting in the SC-57 thread to start this but no one has yet to take the hint Since several threads are floating about asking about the new models, it's time to collect that interest in one thread going forward So I'm starting it...

HiFiFun has an informative thread he started on the SC-61 so to me it makes sense if that one becomes an Official SC-61/63/65 Thread.

Yes, I got the new SC-68. Local dealer just got them in so I decided it would be a good choice to add new features I was looking for, while at the same time, I retain all the familiarity and knowledge I have kept up with about Pioneer's SC models since the 09 came out 4 yrs ago.

And yes, I still have my Pioneer SC-09TX Susano...it's not being replaced. I'm adding the SC-68 to my gear horde and my plan is to either use it or the 09 as a prepro into the other. I want to do some listening comparisons before deciding which amp section I'll use. Those of you familiar with Magnepan speakers know they are relatively inefficient so hi power is usually desirable to make them "come alive"

Here's a pic I took yesterday with the 68 on the floor below the 09 in the rack. I'm working on swapping speaker & 2 player connections this AM so hope to do my initial calibration this afternoon.

More to come later...

I'm reserving 2 posts for initial thoughts.

For those who think I've cracked, I'll be happy to post why I eventually shot down the Denon AVP-A1HDCI & AVR-5308 to replace the SC-09.


Edited by ss9001 - 7/28/12 at 1:41pm

Reserved for initial comments

I finished putting in a temp setup, speaker cable, 2 players, and cable box audio. No legacy connections, they're still on the 09 which is now unplugged for now.

1st up, it'll take some time to get used to a normal AVR display again I admit I'm very spoiled by the SC-09 Susano's LCD display

2nd up, the GUI & OSD

The OSD GUI and information has come a long way since the SC-09. While it's a similar menu structure, it looks more flexible; things are organized cleaner.

This brings me to a bit of a rant -

Over the past several yrs, I've read many posts complaining how brand x has so much better GUI & OSD than brand y. I admit I have not compared a Denon or Onkyo but based on what I saw going thru this setup menu, I have to ask - what more do the complainers want? The graphics for MCACC EQ and settings all look just fine to me! It's come a long way from the B&W DOS look in the 59txi and is definitely improved over the SC-09. I suspect all the other brands also show similar improvement over the last 4 yrs I don't need the GUI to entertain me for 10 min, I just need it to display the setup in a logical, informational & ordered fashion & the Pioneer does a fine job in this. The UI complainers must lead ADD lives. Only going to use it 1 or 2X a yr anyway - in the scheme of things, how important is it that it be all "graphical"? Rant over...

The menu is not hard to navigate or convoluted. For ANYONE familiar with Pioneer AVR's, it's a snap. Coming in cold, I had figured out the whole setup menu in <10 min. tops & had the Symmetry preset calibrated about 15 minutes later. With all the pre-assigned HDMI inputs, my input setup was EZ, didn't even bother to re-name them yet

For new owners coming from a different brand, Pioneer has the CD AV Navigator to guide you thru the process. I didn't use it - I just dove right in But looking at it on my laptop, it's probably a nice way to get a new user started.

OSD - this may have been there with the 57 or 37 models, but for me, it's nice to see volume and other info on the TV over HDMI, something that was missing from the early SC models. I'm sure most of this is old hat to owners of the recent generations but I'm coming at it from a 4 yr old flagship.

Again, this also may be true of the 57 but so far, all the audio/video parameter menus are also visible OS when you press the remote buttons. Great!
Edited by ss9001 - 7/28/12 at 1:36pm

Reserved for PQLS

for DonH50

Hmmm...with BDP-09 player, CD PQLS only, not the night & day difference I got with the old Ilink'd Pio 59AVI & no PQLS HDMI'd Oppo players. That was easily discernible using the SACD layer between the 2 player setups.

Initial reaction using the CD layer of the Dead Can Dance SACD Spiritchaser is that PQLS *seems* to take a bit of the edge off Lisa Gerrard's vocalizations. Their recordings are all mastered with reverb, church hall ambience, accentuating her hi-pitched voice. She can be a bit edgy I picked this recording specifically because of her vocals.

I have to listen a lot more with different kinds material before reaching any real conclusions. Will re-visit this post later today or tomorrow.

BTW - Pure Direct mode 2 channel listening.
Edited by ss9001 - 7/28/12 at 10:02am

^^
will be nice to get your comments soon

thank you but I'm just one of many some who've corrected me on occasion.
I like it so far. I pulled my 300 watt amp of out the loop for now because I wanted to give the new gen class D amps a true workout with my Magnepans.

And it's familiar & that's not bad, especially as one gets older

I already had to learn a new smartphone last month & still trying to learn new photo edit software to go along with getting back into photography after many yrs. Adding a different AVR brand & room EQ 201 would have pushed me over the edge
Edited by ss9001 - 7/28/12 at 1:39pm

Really early in the comparison stage but overall - I'm impressed with the amps. I have them running all 5 of my 4 ohm Magnepan planar speakers in addition to 2 normal speakers I use as rears. And played music & bombastic Death Race at very loud levels (the wife was away ), and no problems. And they sounded to my ears like a good class a/b amp. Smooth, detailed, excellent bass & quick transient attacks just like my 300/600 watt amp.

When the SC-57 generation 1st came out, several posters like Filmmixer posted the new amps were as good as or better than the Ice amps & so far I think they were right. I can't see any disadvantages

I know I'll add my hi-powered 2 ch amp back into the system for the fronts, but for now, what I wanted to do was really stress the Pioneer class D amps as much as I can to see how they perform. So far, nothing went into protection mode & the speakers didn't sound strained at all.
Edited by ss9001 - 7/30/12 at 9:55am

Careful, you don't want your son out of work
Seriously, if both of you thought it sounded that good especially with his background that says a lot MCACC does a good job for most, with the exception of equalizing separate subwoofers which currently it doesn't do. But there are specialized sub equalizers available if he adds a sub and wants to take it to the highest level. Plus he (or you) can manually tweak it.

Glad you both like it so far...enjoy!

Yes, picked up at a local dealer last week

I know many of you like audyssey & the Denon way Believe me, I had been seriously looking but in the end...the points you make are the very same ones I considered. I already have multi32XT in the most critical area with the SVS equalizer I bought from AustinJerry in Dec. And a recent experience with a specialized speaker from Magnepan has changed some of my thinking on MCACC.

I think there are several features it has, which you also point out, that many seem to under-appreciate.

My recent experience trying to integrate a dipolar bass panel with 1 of Magnepan's centers, to fill in the hole from 80hz to ~100/120hz made me appreciate the flexibility MCACC. Plus the effect of phase control & standing wave filters which I think helped to make the sound from 2 separate speakers blend more into "one". The bass panel has its own internal Xover @200Hz so you can definitely tell directionality - even some vocals come thru. IMO, having 2 speakers act to sound like a single center can be tricky to pull-off, unless you go with Magnepan's bass mgmt work-around, which I'm not willing to do. And this was with the 09 before I got the 68. IMHO, there's more to it than EQ: Audyssey uses filters in the time domain, Pioneer has phase alignment by changing group delays.

Manually tweaking several freq bands definitely helped but still didn't integrate them completely. Only when I re-did the whole calibration, with new group delays, phase correction & completely different SW filters, did it "lock" into place.

To me, unless you combine a room correction system with a lot of measuring (Omnimic, XTZ) how can one positively know which room correction system is "best" for any given situation? On paper, Audyssey looks more advanced, no question. But when you add the phase control & SW filters, it's possible that any "real world" non-subwoofer differences are minor, if at all. It's also possible MCACC is more advanced than we gave it credit for when you consider these 2 features or at least they mitigate some of the difference

If I didn't already have 2 sub EQ systems that I could use I might feel think otherwise. But with both parametric EQ and the SVS audyssey to use, for me personally, I think I have reached the point of diminishing returns More $$ thrown at less real "improvement"

And I'll try to stay "entertaining"
Edited by ss9001 - 7/31/12 at 7:43am

And I didn't answer your question

Are the new class D amps holding their own vs the Ice amp design? Yes, so far and I'm trying to stress them as much as I can

If you can see the ch levels but not change them, you are looking in MCACC Data Check & that's not where you want to be

To change speaker settings:

In the 1st screen of the menu: System Setup > Manual SP Setup > Speaker Setting

1. set your front L/R to SMALL, set the crossover most likely to 80 Hz, the standard unless you are using small satellites OR
2. keep front L/R as LARGE then set Sub to Plus, forcing it to also be on at all times. Majority of advice is to set fronts to SMALL and let the sub do all the work, because most main speakers cannot reproduce ultra-low bass anyway. But it's your choice, you can try both ways out & decide.

Amirm is correct, you have complete control of all everything MCACC does by manually tweaking it.

To change channel levels:

In the 1st screen of the menu: System Setup > Manual SP Setup > Channel Level

You may be new to Pioneer world & the manual could be better organized IMO, but if you root around the menu, you should have no problems getting the hang of how the info is organized. Spend some time with it, don't have to change anything, just check them out I can't remember all this myself & I've been using Pioneer Elites menus since 2003. In fact, I just confirmed where to go by checking my own avr just now

take 10-15 min & explore..
Edited by ss9001 - 8/1/12 at 2:49am

and what a nice AVR the 49tx was I also owned a 49 & 59txi - both were very impressive performers.

the SC-68 would be an excellent replacement for the 49. The Denon would no doubt also be a great AVR. The one thing to keep in mind, as I just found out this week, is that Denon changed their DenonLink jitter-control connection from cat5 to digital coax on the xx13 AVR's, obsoleting ALL of their existing & previous players that have DenonLink. Imagine just spending $2K - 4.5K for one of their players this year & now it's DenonLink is obsolete. I would be thoroughly pissed.

At least with Pioneer, they've already gone through several years of PQLS changes & now both their current players & AVR's are in sync with the same version. They've already dried up that well of forced gear upgrades

I was shocked that Denon did this because up until they changed the connection, they handled their DL version updates in firmware. I always thought that was a much more customer friendly way than Pioneer did it, changing versions with each release of AVR's or players. IMO, Denon threw away an advantage they had over Pioneer. That said, if all there is to the change is a different connection, then going forward it may be a stable platform. But I'd sure hate to be the one with a $4000 player that's been gimped

But this may not be a concern to you

^^
not yet...haven't tried it, but I'll get around to it

Keep in mind, I am not a computer audio or file download kind of person anyway. I have 40 yrs of shiny discs & yes, even vinyl, to keep my entertainment urges fulfilled I'm a disc person at heart unless it's for ipod portability of course.

But I do intend to check it out, have to convert some of my collection in itunes to suitable files and put on a USB drive & let you know as soon as I can I still have a lot of new things to check out Just one new feature on my list

Whether or not it's going to be as good as an hi-priced external DAC, like the $1500 W4S, I wouldn't be able to tell, since I don't have any to compare with. But I can get an idea of using it vs. reg playing.

stay tuned...
Edited by ss9001 - 8/3/12 at 4:17am