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Official Pioneer SC-68/67 Thread - Page 42

post #1231 of 1838
Thanks to all for the SW - Yes/Plus clarifications.
post #1232 of 1838
I own a SC-68 and a SC-63. I am having problems controlling them with iControlAV2012 and Roomieremote. If I have both receivers connected to my network. they will both stop responding after about an hour. I can disconnect one of the receivers from the network and the other one will respond in a few minutes. When they stop responding I cannot even ping them. I have tried using reserved DHCP, static IP, and individual subnets. I also tried shutting down my router, and disconnecting power from both receivers. I then restarted the router and receivers. Still get the same issue.

Both receivers have the most current firmware. Can anyone shed some insight into what might need to be done to get this working correctly? Pioneer Technical Support was no help at all.

I have multiple Panasonic Blu-Ray players and Apple TVs on the network and they are all easily controlled via IP with no response problems. My problem seems to be specific to the Pioneer Receivers.
Edited by jbinder - 3/6/13 at 10:56am
post #1233 of 1838
Quote:
Originally Posted by soniky View Post

Connection Android to sc-68 USB-DAC

According to this following thread, many Android smartphones and tablets can stream digital audio output through the onboard USB port to an external DAC

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1393599/enable-usb-audio-on-any-android-4-0-smartphone-tablet/120

I wonder anyone has tried any one of them to SC-68?


Or, has anyone tried IPAD with a camera connection kit connecting to SC-68 USB DAC?

Basically, I am looking for the best audio quality that an Androd tablet or iPad can connect to SC-68 without using other devices. This would be to bypass the onboard DAC and amp on the tablet.
post #1234 of 1838
SACD audio set up question.
OPPO BDP-103 via HDMI to Pioneer Elite SC-67.
SACD Output options with the OPPO.
PCM to the Pioneer or DSD to the Pioneer?
Which option will provide (theoretically) the best sound?

Thanks
post #1235 of 1838
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TracerJohn View Post

SACD audio set up question.

PCM to the Pioneer or DSD to the Pioneer?
Which option will provide (theoretically) the best sound?

Thanks

neither will be superior to the other theoretically...but with DSD direct to analog you will lose the use of MCACC and its benefits of calibrated speaker distance, levels & EQ, etc. plus, except for the dedicated .1 LFE channel, you lose all bass redirection from "small" speakers to the subwoofer, So in practice, converting to PCM first:

1. does no audible harm to the integrity of the hi-rez audio since it will be converted from 2.8224 Mhz @ 1 bit to its PCM equivalent of 88.2 Khz or 176.4 Khz @ 24 bits.
2. gain the ability to use Pioneer DSP MCACC calibration/EQ/phase control, standing wave filters, and bass mgmt.

"audiophile" purists may want the option to use DSD direct but real world it makes no discernible difference and you gain the use of room correction going to PCM first. I would consider DSD direct for 2 ch SACD's but for 5.1 SACD's, it may actually sound worse, since you will have no bass mgmt for "small" speakers and no distance calibration. in my room, 5.1 done as DSD direct didn't sound nearly as good bass-wise as converted to PCM and using MCACC...ymmv. even with 2 ch SACD's, if you have bass shy fronts or set them as "small', be prepared to sacrifice some bass performance because there's no LFE channel for a subwoofer and no redirected bass from the fronts. there can be no digital processing on top of DSD direct unless it's converted to PCM.

I have used DSD direct on occasion and in all cases with 5.1 and most cases with 2 ch, I prefer to use MCACC & bass mgmt to having straight DSD.

you can do your own listening comparisons & then you can decide for yourself which way you prefer smile.gif it's not hard to switch & compare - just set the Oppo player and receiver to DSD & Pure Direct respectively, then set to PCM & Direct respectively. if you set the Oppo to DSD but leave the Pioneer set to Direct with MCACC engaged or Auto Surround, the receiver will convert the DSD from the Oppo to PCM anyway wink.gif

and from wiki on SACD:

"Comparison with DVD-A

Double-blind listening tests in 2004 between DSD and 24-bit, 176.4 kHz PCM recordings reported that among test subjects no significant differences could be heard (emphasis mine). DSD advocates and equipment manufacturers continue to assert an improvement in sound quality above PCM 24-bit 176.4 kHz."
Edited by ss9001 - 3/7/13 at 1:16pm
post #1236 of 1838
ss9001,
Thanks for the schooling.
Especially about the DSD/Pure Direct setting.
Had no idea how the listening mode affected the MCACC setting.
post #1237 of 1838
HDMI output question.
Looking for a TV for an adjoining room to my Home Theater..
Currently using HDMI OUT 1 to a 1080p plasma in my HT.
Can I use HDMI OUT 2 connected to a 720p the display?
There will be times that I use them both with the same source.
If not, can I use Zone 4 HDMI out with the 720p display.
For some reason I am under the impression that both displays have to have the same resolution.

Thanks
post #1238 of 1838
I've ordered a new Panasonic 65" ZT60 plasma display, which will be here in a few months. In the meantime, I am considering upgrading my AVR to the SC-67. The objective is to take full advantage of what the new display has to offer. I currently have an Elite VSX-01TXH, with an ADCOM 7605 power amp driving the 5.1 audio. Speakers are 4 ohm Magnepans, and cannot be bi-amped. About 80% of my HT viewing is from a DirectTV signal, 20% from BlueRay or DVD movies.

Questions:

1.) From a video processing standpoint, is the upgrade going to provide noticeable benefits over the VSX-01TXH? In other words, given the new display, is it necessary and/or worth it?

2.) From an audio standpoint, would there be noticeable benefits in the SC-67 over the ADCOM power amp. The ADCOM puts out 175 watt/channel @ 4 ohms, not sure of the SC-67 rating at 4 ohms, I'd guess it's a little higher as I see the spec at 8 ohms is 140 watts/channel. Should I retire the ADCOM ( it's nearly 10 years old) and use the SC-67 for HT audio?

3.) Given #1 and # 2 above, is the SC-67 the best choice, or is another Elite series (61,63, or 65) a better choice?

4.) Would another option be to keep everything as is, and simply add a Oppo BDP-105 BlueRay player, and bypass the existing AVR entirely when playing high quality movies, 3D, etc. as it has a direct HDMI output to the display?

5.) Lastly, if I do go with the SC-67 (or other new Elite) is it worth the effort and expense to add two more surround speakers to go to 7.2?

Any help and advice would be greatly appreciated.
post #1239 of 1838
Is there anybody running the SC-68 with the fronts bi-amped in a 3 channel setup?
post #1240 of 1838
Quote:
Originally Posted by TracerJohn View Post

HDMI output question.
Looking for a TV for an adjoining room to my Home Theater..
Currently using HDMI OUT 1 to a 1080p plasma in my HT.
Can I use HDMI OUT 2 connected to a 720p the display?
There will be times that I use them both with the same source.
If not, can I use Zone 4 HDMI out with the 720p display.
For some reason I am under the impression that both displays have to have the same resolution.

Thanks

Yes you can use HDMI OUT 2. For audio to work, you have to change receivers audio option to "TV" instead of "Receiver".

I recommend Zone 4 HDMI as audio is sent through independent of HDMI OUT 1/2.

I am not sure about the same resolution.
post #1241 of 1838
I've had the SC-67 for 4 weeks now. "Upgraded" from an Onkyo TX-NR905.
Main reason for the upgrade is 3D compatibility and the Zone 4 HDMI out.
Swapping the units noticed that the Onkyo is significantly heavier.
Ran the MCACC ignoring the recommendation NOT to install the microphone on a sofa.
Instead, I set the microphone on a tripod, on the sofa where my head would be in the main listening position.
Worked well with the Onkyo so why not...
Well, the sound was not nearly as good as the Onkyo. Mid-low bass was gone.
Highs we're clean and crisp.
Tinkered with the eq, phase, standing waves but could not recover the lost bass.
Reran MCACC with 2 legs of the tripod on the floor. 1 leg on the sofa.
Microphone position at the correct height but maybe 16" forward from main listening position.
BAM! Boom! Perfect. Crisp, clean highs but now the bass was back and better than ever.
I guess then single position on the MCACC is more position sensitive than the multi-position Audessey.

I have listened to Movies, SACDs, CDs, and DVD Audio and love the sound.
Better than the 905 even if the 67 is 10 pounds lighter.

I love the Airplay feature. Coupled with the Hi-Bit 32 and Auto Sound Retriever feature music from my iPAD
sounds awesome. And the convenience of listening from the pad can't be beat.
Also enjoy using the iControlAV. If you haven't tried this free app, download it and give it a go.
Extended Stereo for CDs sounds real good.

Cons of the 67. The remote control is one of the worst I've used.
MCACC - even though several configurations can be saved the parameters that can be saved are limited.
Be nice to save various speaker configurations. 5.1, 2.1, 2.0.
All things considered, after 4 weeks I am very satisfied with the 67.
post #1242 of 1838
Glad you like it.

The Pioneer uses class-D amplifiers that require much smaller heat sinks; that probably accounts for most of the weight difference.

Any single-placement mic system will more sensitive to position in an average un- or minimally-treated room.
post #1243 of 1838
Quote:
Originally Posted by soniky View Post


If you look closer to those input on the back of sc-68, for example, the IN1 component is marked for DVD and the IN1 coax is also marked for DVD, and there is one set of RCA which is marked for DVD as well. That means you can only choose one format to connect to your DVD device and you shouldn't connect them all at the same time. Your DVD probably won't support multiple output at the same time and sc-68 probably won't take multiple input from the same device at the same time. Although, I am not sure what will happen to you DVD and sc-68 if you do connect them all together at the same time. I wouldn't recommend that as it's not designed to operate in that way for any device as far as I know.

edit: As a matter of fact, you will find HDMI IN1 is also marked for DVD. It means that you can choose either HDMI, component, RCA or coax, to connect to your DVD but choose only one out of the four. HDMI, component, coax and optical inputs are all "assignable" if you want to map them differently but that still won't help you.

Dear Soniky,

Thanks for your very helpful reply to my post.

I had not noticed the "Component In" jacks in the upper left at the back of the SC-68.

Here is what I've found out playing around with the output of my source devices, or at least I think this is what I'm seeing and hearing:

My ATT Cable Box will simultaneously output its signal via three outputs: HDMI, Component and RCA.

My SC-68 will simultaneously input these three signals and simultaneously
- make the HDMI from the cable box available to Zone 1 HDMI output,
- make the component from the cable box available to a component out; and
- make the RCA jack audio and visual inputs available to Zone 2 and 3 audio and visual outputs (in practice I only use the zone 2 analog outputs to power an external amp for
my outside deck speakers).



My PS3 will output HDMI or component or RCA but only one at a time. My workaround is to use an HDMI splitter as the signal leaves the PS3. From the splitter one HDMI cable goes to the SC-68 input, and another goes to an HDMI to RCA analog converter. The RCA from this converter goes to my SC-68 RCA jack inputs and is then available to power Zone 2 analog outputs.



My AppleTV will output HDMI and optical simultaneously. I use the optical to feed a converter that transforms the optical to analog-RCA-Jack output. The RCA from this converter goes to my SC-68 RCA jack inputs and is then available to power Zone 2 analog outputs.


The issue I seem to be having now is getting surround sound for playing movies from Zone 1. I do get music surround in Zone 1. I'm not sure if the reason I'm not getting movie 5.1 /7.1 surround in Zone 1 is a setting on the remote or a conflict caused by having multiple (HDMI/component/analog) inputs and outputs for the same source.


John
post #1244 of 1838
Quote:
Originally Posted by malcolmp6 View Post

Is there anybody running the SC-68 with the fronts bi-amped in a 3 channel setup?

I'm doing this with a 5.2 setup. My front left and right are bi-amped and the other speakers are single connections. I don't notice any big sound difference with the front speakers but I figure the bi-amping is providing easier drive to the speakers.
post #1245 of 1838
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TracerJohn View Post

Microphone position at the correct height but maybe 16" forward from main listening position.

glad you're enjoying it so far! biggrin.gif

the original mic position might have been in a bass null or a big peak for the particular freq(s) you noticed were missing. I've found moving the measuring mic for the Velodyne sub EQ system just a ft or 2 can make a big difference in the resulting bass response. True nulls & peaks are 100% dependent on room dimensions & listening - measurement position. Moving your Pioneer mic that 16" just might have moved it to past a null or peak and then the system has something to work with.

plus, DonH50 is right, with this being a single point measurement, you don't have the "averaging" that Audyssey does with multiple measuring positions that could add nulls with peaks to get a result wink.gif

I think it's great you figured out a way to compensate, using your brain & not just post a complaint wink.gif your experience and how you coped with it will help others...good job! smile.gif
post #1246 of 1838
Quote:
Originally Posted by doglife1 View Post

Here is what I've found out playing around with the output of my source devices, or at least I think this is what I'm seeing and hearing:

Hi John, thanks for sharing your results. I learned more from you and your feedback can help many others too.
post #1247 of 1838
I just installed my SC-67 (love it!) and I'm not clear on what I should be getting for active audio channels based on my current setup. Specifically, no matter what movie audio source I listen to (AC3, DTS Master, etc), I can only get 7.1 channels. I had assumed (incorrectly?) that I could get 9.1 via some of the enhanced audio settings. I understand per the manual, that 11.1 is not possible as you get either FHeight vs FWide channels - you can't have both working simultaneously.

My setup is:
SC-67
Sony BDP-790
AppleTV

MK speakers connected on: SW1, L, C, R, FHL, FHR, FWL, FWR, SL, SR, SB (single)

I used MCACC to configure and have confirmed they are all connected and working individually. For initial settings, I used 9.1ch FH/FW and speakers (SP) are currently set to FH/FW ON.

Regardless of the original source material, I'm only getting 7.1 of the above channels working at any one time. By rotating through the various audio modes, I can get either FW or FH (but not both), and I can get either SL/SR or SB (but not both).

I've tried content that has TrueHD 7.1, Master HD 5.1, AC3 5.1.

This may simply be that what I was expecting for output is not possible. But the only limitation I was able to identify in the manual was not having FH and FW on simultaneously.

Thanks for any help.
david
post #1248 of 1838
Thread Starter 
^^
you should be getting 9.1 simultaneously from 5.1 sources, and probably 7.1 also.

1. did you set speaker setup to A. 9.2 FH/FW in setup menu?
2. when you ran your MCACC calibration, did you hear test tones from height & rear speakers?
3. did you confirm in Data Management that they are not set to No but Yes and have distances, delays, levels, and EQ settings?
4. are you sure you have them connected properly?

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

5. did you try the speaker setting FH On, not FH/FW? I have mine set to FH/FW and have no problems but you should try the FH only speaker setting, page 78 in manual just to be sure.

6. how do you know you're not getting the channels? did you put your ear up to the speakers? keep in mind that for MANY if not MOST soundtracks, the derived rear channels and especially height channels may be very subtle and not readily apparent at all. it all depends on the content. you may not notice them at all, they are not "in your face". if you find the levels too low for your liking, you can copy the MCACC preset you're using, say Symmetry, by doing a Data Copy, then tweak (increase) the rear & height channel levels a dB or several dB's to bring them up in volume. even with 7.1 tracks, my experience with rear channels is mixed...some discs are mastered so that there is aggressive use of rears and others are so subtle that it makes negligible difference to the soundfield if they are there or turned off. The Star Wars discs are an example where only occasionally you will hear something distinct coming from the rears. One of the best 7.1 discs, IMO, is Dark City. I have found only a handful of others that make as good use of the rears. Good 7.1 is a missed opportunity by many studios.

7. lastly and most importantly, you will only get height channels from Dolby ProLogic IIz (not PLIIx) and Neo X modes. None of the THX modes or plain DTS-MA, Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Digital, DTS will derive them. Same is true of rears, unless it's a 7.1 disc, you must use ProLogic IIx, IIz, DTS Neo X, or THX Cinema to derive 7.1 rear channels from 5.1. None of the "advanced surround", Optimum Surround, ALC modes will give you height channels either. and if you are in Direct mode or Pure Direct mode, you will not get height channels or rear channels unless it's a 7.1 disc of course. Direct & Pure Direct will give you only what's on the disc, nothing more...if disc is 5.1 all you will get is 5.1 with Direct & Pure Direct. You must be select Auto Surround then IIz (for heights & rears) IIx (for rears) or Neo X (for heights & rears).

If none of these apply to you, then I can't explain why your setup isn't working right. check wiring, check connections, check settings. if all fails, then your receiver may have a defect but it's far more likely it's something in your setup smile.gif
post #1249 of 1838
Thread Starter 
let me add one more thing....

I just noticed you have wides connected too. I missed that, sorry. this may be your issue. we're not sure how the speaker selection FH/FW On is supposed to work and so far haven't gotten an explanation from Pioneer either. the description in the manual suggests there's some sort of switching that may occur BUT this was found not to work as it's described literally. adn there is no flag in NeoX to do that kind of switching according to someone in the know who used to work for Dolby.

my advice now that I see you have both connected is to individually select speaker selection "FH On" for when you want heights & use PLIIx or NeoX. OR select "FW On" and use Neo X for when you want to use wides. I don't think the FH/FW does what one might think. and if you do have both connected & set to Yes in the MCACC setup, then the receiver can't decide what to use when and it may be causing a "glitch" for lack of better word. Make sure both are Yes in MCACC and use the speaker selector on remote to deliberately pick either heights or wides but not the FW/FW setting. See if that doesn't fix your problem. also remember that PLIIz only derives heights....and only Neo X can derive heights & wides.

you might try an experiment....disconnect your wide speakers & then see if you can hear heights & rears with IIz or NeoX. If you can, then that was your problem...reconnect the wides & use the speaker selector.
post #1250 of 1838
Hi

I just set up my new SC-67 and am having issues with no audio through either Zone 2 or Zone 3. My speaker set up is a bi-amp 5.1, using the SC-67 amp to drive Zone 2 audio and an external amp for Zone 3(no video in either). I've confirmed the speaker set up several times, but still no sound from either zone. Does anyone have any thoughts on what I could try to trouble shoot? Thanks
post #1251 of 1838
Thread Starter 
what connections from the sources to the receiver, analog, digital opt/coax or HDMI?
for multizone use, zone 2/3 it will only work with analog connections. and only the SC-68 can send HDMI to another zone.

if you are using speaker B terminals on the receiver, did you remember to use the speaker selector on the remote to select A+B On? (pg 78 in manual)
post #1252 of 1838
I just installed a new SC-68 (replacing my venerable VSX-49TX.) I've been having a few challenges setting up Zone 2 on the new receiver - mostly due to the fact that digital sources do not pass to Zone 2 at all. However, I've managed to work around that issue by supplying analog audio source for those inputs that need to go to Zone 2. I use Zone 2 for whole house audio - which worked quite well with the old receiver.

But now I have a new problem, which is the fact that Zone 2 audio is out of sync with the main zone. Zone 2 runs about 1/4 of a second ahead of the main zone - even if the main zone is playing from an analog source. The most typical use-case is playing stereo music in the main zone to 7.1 speakers (using listening mode: ext. stereo), and then distributing the analog audio via Zone 2 to other rooms that just play 2-channel stereo.

No sync issues with the old receiver (even when playing ext. stereo in the main zone.) Is there any easy fix for this?

Thanks for your ideas.

Regards,
Michael Bishop

ps. The issue mentioned above goes away if I set the receiver to the "pure direct" listening mode. But then I only have 2 channels driven in the main zone.
post #1253 of 1838
Hey Michael, please post your thoughts on the comparison of the SC-68 vs the VSX49TX when you have had enough time to play. i am also a VSX49TX owner contemplating the move to the SC-68 and would love to hear your thoughts on the differences.
post #1254 of 1838
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterK View Post

Hey Michael, please post your thoughts on the comparison of the SC-68 vs the VSX49TX when you have had enough time to play. i am also a VSX49TX owner contemplating the move to the SC-68 and would love to hear your thoughts on the differences.

PeterK--
I've only had the SC-68 hooked up for a couple of days, so my experience with it is limited. On the plus side: Sonically, to my ears, the SC-68 is as good, if not better than, the VSX-49tx. It seems like there is plenty of power for all channels. Music sounds rich, full and clear - does not sound like any frequencies are missing. Also, plenty of HDMI inputs and outputs. I was able to remove 2 outboard HDMI switches I was previously using in my system due to the lack of HDMI switching in the VSX-49tx. I was also able to get rid of the analog audio cables I was running from my Oppo Blu-ray player into the multi-channel input on the VSX-49tx. And because the SC-68 has no S-video, I was able to get rid of some S-video cables, as well.

On the minus side: The remote on the SC-68 is not great. Tiny buttons, no active display, and poor illumination. Also, the SC-68 is less user-friendly in choosing the listening mode you want. On the VSX-49tx, there is a third knob on the front panel for quickly and easily choosing the listening mode, and the VSX-49tx touchscreen remote made it easier as well. Another minus for the SC-68, if you are using any listening mode other than "Pure Direct" in the main zone, is that Zone 2 is not time sync'ed with the main zone. The Zone 2 audio runs about 1/4 of a second ahead of the main zone. I'm still looking for a solution to this last issue - and I have a couple of ideas yet to test out.

I don't know if this is a plus or a minus - but according to the user manuals, the VSX-49tx weighs 64.5 lbs. and draws up to 710 watts of AC power. The SC-68 weighs 39.2 lbs. and draws up to 370 watts of AC. I'm not sure how a receiver that draws only 370 watts of AC power can produce 9 channels of 100+ watts each (or even 7 channels @ 90 watts ea.) Funny math? Perhaps the SC-68 specification sheet is erroneous? Anyone know what's going on here?

The VSX-49tx was a great receiver for its day. Mine has worked perfectly from day one without a single issue, and it will find a new life in my bedroom - where it will replace an even older Onkyo TX-SV919THX receiver.

I'm still forming opinions about the SC-68 - and my views may change as I grow more accustomed to it.

Regards,
Michael Bishop
post #1255 of 1838
Happy to see that everyone is so happy with their SC receivers. I just picked up a new SC-65 & can't wait to get my 9.1 system up & running. smile.gif
post #1256 of 1838
Quote:


I don't know if this is a plus or a minus - but according to the user manuals, the VSX-49tx weighs 64.5 lbs. and draws up to 710 watts of AC power. The SC-68 weighs 39.2 lbs. and draws up to 370 watts of AC. I'm not sure how a receiver that draws only 370 watts of AC power can produce 9 channels of 100+ watts each (or even 7 channels @ 90 watts ea.) Funny math? Perhaps the SC-68 specification sheet is erroneous? Anyone know what's going on here?

 

Redesigned amps, the SC models are sporting digital amps now, less weight, less current usage and it runs much cooler. 

 

I have been eavesdropping on this thread since I am considering purchasing the SC-68 and moving my 1222k to my bedroom smile.gif

post #1257 of 1838
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Bishop View Post

ps. The issue mentioned above goes away if I set the receiver to the "pure direct" listening mode. But then I only have 2 channels driven in the main zone.

from reading similar posts elsewhere, I think either the Denon 4520 or Marantz 8801 threads, this delay is due to the fact that main zone gets processed by DSP for adding surround processing, decoding, calibration & EQ, while the 2nd zone does not. Zone 2/3 are not calibrated or go thru digital processing at all, being straight stereo. this introduces a very slight delay, it doesn't take much, between the 2 signal paths. the fact that it goes away when you use Pure Direct is no surprise in light of this.

other than tinkering in the audio parameters menu with lip sync delay or try turning off Phase Control, it is what it is. and since this is not a video/audio sync issue per se, lip sync delay adjustment may or may not help. I mention Phase Control because it alters the group delays between main zone channels so that freq's arrive at the listening position at same time...my experience is that it increases the group delay so that all channels match. therefore, turning it off may be something to try.

if it bothers you that much, you can try & see but no guarantees. or use Pure Direct.
post #1258 of 1838
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Bishop View Post

I don't know if this is a plus or a minus - but according to the user manuals, the VSX-49tx weighs 64.5 lbs. and draws up to 710 watts of AC power. The SC-68 weighs 39.2 lbs. and draws up to 370 watts of AC. I'm not sure how a receiver that draws only 370 watts of AC power can produce 9 channels of 100+ watts each (or even 7 channels @ 90 watts ea.) Funny math? Perhaps the SC-68 specification sheet is erroneous? Anyone know what's going on here?

the difference between the 2 receivers' amp architecture is night & day. your 49 is class A/B & required 2x the power supply watts, transformer & capacitors than the 68's class D amps. A/B amps at best are about 50% efficient while class D amps are 80-90% efficient. the power supply rating being halved is the result...it's not needed for the same output power. you may want to read up on class D amps, wiki is a good place to start. I can attach white papers, Pioneer info, Icepower literature (Ice amps are what Pioneer used from the SC-09tx to the SC-37 generations) and lit on the latest amp design from International Rectifier. but you need to understand the basic difference between how conventional class A/B amps work & how class D amps work to appreciate the advances & changes Pioneer has made since your 49TX came out smile.gif

these class D amps have switch mode power supplies in which the power is pulsed full on & full off at a very high rate, about 450-500,000 times per second. in this fashion they work similarly to how digital audio works...sampling an analog signal at a high freq....so these amps are sometimes called digital amps although they still use analog signals from the preamp and output analog signals to the speakers.

Pioneer isn't cheating on the spec. plus, test measurements by several review sites show that while several competitive models do sag a lot when more than 5 channels are driven to same power at same time, the Pioneer class D amps can maintain close to rated power at 5-7 channels driven at once. I do agree that 9 channels, they would start to sag also smile.gif no receiver on the planet can maintain rated power 9 channels driven at once wink.gif the closest receivers could come to doing that where in the era of Pioneer's SC-09TX with its 1400 watt power supply & the Denon 5805 & 5308 models.

btw- I agree with your comment about the 49tx being one of the best in its day. I owned the 49txi and 59txi models and occasionally I wish I hadn't sold my 59txi...if nothing else for its build quality & all that copper wink.gif I'd love to put it on a shelf just to look at it eek.gif The SC-09TX that replaced the 59Txi was the last true flagship from Pioneer, but it wasn't cheap @ $7K! and I still have & use mine alongside the SC-68. I use the SC-68 as a prepro into the SC-09's amps. I won't be parting with it for the forseeable future as it represents the pinnacle of receiver design & Pioneer's heyday, IMO. the 59txi would be a close second wink.gif

but other than the SC-09's build quality, higher power amps and the pinache of its front panel LCD display, the SC-68 is much more advanced technologically & has much more to offer than the SC-09 for a fraction of the price wink.gif and as good as the 49 was, comparing it technically with SC-68 is not a contest wink.gif

and any disappointments you may have with remote etc? look at the price difference between what the 49 cost in its day - $4500 in ~'01 dollars! - vs what the SC-68 costs in '12 dollars - $2500. something has to give...so you're not exactly making a fair comparison rolleyes.gif

I do agree the remote is probably the worst one to come out of Pioneer since the 49/59 models & even the SC-09's was a bit better. but in this day of cost cutting, razor-thin profit margins, poor economic recovery & poor company health & the fact that all A/V consumer electronic companies are really hurting...what would you have them do? - cut on a remote which can be replaced by a programmable universal remote? or cut on new amp designs, not pay for THX certification (like Denon), or use poorer quality components? keep in mind, they are directly competing with Denon 4520 at the same price point who doesn't pay to get THX certs, and the Onkyo 5010 which Onkyo charges $500 MORE for @ $3000 MSRP. I'm not apologizing for Pioneer, I am however pointing out reality in today's economy - and cheapening a remote strikes me as the least objectionable route to stay competitive rolleyes.gif

you can't have it all for 50% the price of your 49tx, not even including inflation...sorry.

just my 2c in addition to amp info. hopefully, you'll enjoy all the new formats, new processing, new features & apple/android integration & these will make up for a chintzy remote wink.gif but all comments, complaints & observations, comparisons are welcome and appreciated. I also hope you join us on the forum to help others. just be prepared for lively discussion even if we may disagree on occasion smile.gif

glad you're here! smile.gif
Edited by ss9001 - 3/15/13 at 4:51am
post #1259 of 1838
For those who dislike the Difficult to use Pioneer remote, which in my opinion totally blows, try the iControlAV app.
Doesn't help with initial set up, but is great for use when in operation.
Easily switches between sources, listening modes etc.
post #1260 of 1838
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob_63 View Post

Redesigned amps, the SC models are sporting digital amps now, less weight, less current usage and it runs much cooler. 

I have been eavesdropping on this thread since I am considering purchasing the SC-68 and moving my 1222k to my bedroom smile.gif

you know you want to wink.gifbiggrin.gif
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