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Official Pioneer SC-68/67 Thread - Page 8

post #211 of 1835
does anyone here have the sc-68 and the oppo95 or 93? How does it sound when you play thru the Oppo and the sc-68?
post #212 of 1835
Thread Starter 
^^
yes to both - sounds great - I have the 93 w/hdmi. so haven't can't tell you how great the 95 dac is wink.gif
post #213 of 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

^^
yes to both - sounds great - I have the 93 w/hdmi. so haven't can't tell you how great the 95 dac is wink.gif

If you had music on an external drive, would you want to plug it into the usb port on the receiver or the oppo? what do you think would sound better?

thanks
post #214 of 1835
^^^

blind or sighted? wink.gif
post #215 of 1835
the usb port is more visible on the receiver? is that it. Come on, one must sound better...
post #216 of 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus00 View Post

If you had music on an external drive, would you want to plug it into the usb port on the receiver or the oppo? what do you think would sound better?
thanks

Chances are you probably would not hear the difference.
post #217 of 1835
I have an idea for sc-68 owners. Top secret special mission. One or more of you needs to pick up the new Oppo 105 that also has asynch usb & hdmi for computer direct playback. We need to a/b the Oppo105 with the sc-68. smile.gif
Edited by Lotus00 - 9/24/12 at 8:07am
post #218 of 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by symphx View Post

sc 67---- pass thru default setting?
Hello again, now that all my sources go through the new receiver, it is confusing the heck out of anyone that wants to watch tv with the receiver off.
Somehow I figured out how to set the HDMI control settings to at least allow the pass thru; and I had to use default to "last used" device.
Is there anyway to default to a specific device, in my case cabl/satellite? (so if I watch a movie and forget to press cabl sat, input when turning off the receiver, no one else can use the tv?!) thanks!

I'd do it differently. What I've done is that I pass the cable box via HDMI directly to the TV. So if it's late at night or it's just a news show, I watch without the receiver audio. (The only thing is that the HDMI control will usually turn the receiver on anyway, but I just click it off). If I turn the receiver on, the audio is passed from the TV to the receiver via the Audio Return Channel. So it's the best of both worlds. When the receiver does turn on automatically, it automatically switches to TV/Sat (on my SC55 - I think they relabeled that input on the SC68). The only thing is that you can't have any cables going into any of the back panel inputs for TV/Sat if you use ARC. (I had advised Pioneer that it would have been better if you could have switched using the input button, but they said that wasn't possible. Seems like a waste of an input to me.)
post #219 of 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus00 View Post

the usb port is more visible on the receiver? is that it. Come on, one must sound better...

no, one doesn't HAVE to sound better (or even different).... that is an audiophile trap door...
post #220 of 1835
I don't see any comparison chart for the Pioneer Elite line. Could someone summarize what I give up if I choose the SC-67 instead of the SC-68? Thanks in advance.
post #221 of 1835
Seems like the differences are the THX-Ultra 2 on the 68. Can't understand why as both have the exact same power handling?

The SC-68 has 7.1 multichannel inputs & some speaker tweaking like "precision distance".

Unless you need the analog connection, seems like the 67 model is the way to go?
post #222 of 1835
"Unless you need the analog connection..."

What analog connection do you mean?
post #223 of 1835
The SC-68 has a 7.1 multi channel input. That is useful for folks who have higher end BD players that have excellent DACs like the Elite-09, Oppo-95, Cambridge 751 etc... Those players more than likely will have better DACs.
post #224 of 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Glover View Post

The SC-68 has a 7.1 multi channel input. That is useful for folks who have higher end BD players that have excellent DACs like the Elite-09, Oppo-95, Cambridge 751 etc... Those players more than likely will have better DACs.

Thanks for the clarification. I have one more newbie question. (I've never had a system beyond 2-channel stereo, and I read something back in this thread that has me confused.)

I'm considering the SC-67 for a home theater setup. I also have an OPPO 93. I plan to have two front channels, a center channel, subwoofer, and two rear speakers. That is my understanding of what 5.1 means. I just want to ask if the SC-67 / OPPO 93 combination will work together and give me surround sound through the rear speakers.
post #225 of 1835
Thread Starter 
^^
absolutely!! smile.gif great choice in players biggrin.gif

it would be a great combination but honestly all blu-ray players & modern receivers do 5.1 which is the most basic & common surround setup in a living/family room environment. The Oppo happens to be a top rated, full featured robust player plus you can't go wrong with a SC-67 as your very 1st surround receiver coming from stereo. That would be a great setup that will take care of your surround audio needs.

actually with new receivers like the 67, if you decide to add more channels past 5.1, you can go as many as 9.1 (with 2 subs), which can include height & wide channels.

your understanding of 5.1 surround is correct but as clarification, what you call the "rears" (the 4th & 5th channels out of 5.1) are more accurately called surrounds or side surrounds to distinguish them from true rear or back channels. The preferred location for them is more to the sides, from 90 deg to ~120 deg from the main seating position to the sides but slightly rearwards. Rears or back surrounds are the 6th & 7th channels in a 7.1 setup. When you say "rears" most people will assume you mean those back channels.

now if you're really going to mount the surrounds directly behind you, you can, just as long as you remember to wire those speakers to the surround outputs not the rear (or back) outputs. this is important because in 7.1, most of the time, those back rear channels are derived from the side surrounds.

5.1 = fronts, center, surrounds (side surrounds)
7.1 = fronts, center, surrounds, rears (back channels)
9.1 = a) fronts, center, surrounds, rears, height channels or b) fronts, center, surrounds, rears, width channels
11.1 = all of the above with heights & widths at the same time

you can find excellent diagrams of various setups, recommended speaker locations & terminology on Dolby & DTS's websites - here's a couple of links that may help,

http://www.dolby.com/us/en/professional/technology/home-theater/listing.html
http://www.dolby.com/us/en/consumer/setup/connection-guide/home-theater-speaker-guide/index.html
http://www.dts.com/professionals/sound-technologies/audio-formats.aspx

especially when you start adding matrix processing like Dolby ProLogic IIx (to get 7.1 from 5.1) IIz (adds heights) & DTS NeoX for the same things. Most Blu-rays & DVD's are natively 5.1 but some are encoded as 7.1 with dedicated rear channels. The majority of the time, we add ProLogic IIx or DTS Neo to get our 7.1 channels from 5.1.

Most receiver manuals, including Pioneer's, have speaker layout diagrams & descriptions of channels:



hope this helps as you move from stereo into surround sound smile.gif
Edited by ss9001 - 9/25/12 at 1:15pm
post #226 of 1835
Steve,

Thanks so much for the clarification. You gave me exactly what I needed.

This is actually a bedroom setup, so 5.1 is realistically all I'll ever need. The, uh, speakers that won't be going in the front near the TV smile.gif will probably be a pair of B & W in-ceiling speakers. They would be above and to the sides of my head, and maybe slightly behind, but less than a foot from the back wall of the room. Maybe not ideal, but it's the best I can think of so far.
post #227 of 1835
A couple of quick questions for sc67/68 owners. Can you see volume and or listening mode display on screen through hdmi? Does the pioneer have a setting to adjust the height of the center channel sound, like to give it an effect of coming from center of 120 inch screen vertically using height speakers? If so does anyone use it and how well does it work. Thanks
post #228 of 1835
If you connect any BDP that bitstream via HDMI to the avr, then the avr's DAC is running the show and not the BDP. The DAC's in the Elite avr's are top notch so it most likely wil not make a difference in SQ.
post #229 of 1835
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TITANS1 View Post

A couple of quick questions for sc67/68 owners. Can you see volume and or listening mode display on screen through hdmi? Does the pioneer have a setting to adjust the height of the center channel sound, like to give it an effect of coming from center of 120 inch screen vertically using height speakers? If so does anyone use it and how well does it work. Thanks

Can you see volume and or listening mode display on screen through hdmi?

yes, absolutely

Does the pioneer have a setting to adjust the height of the center channel sound...using height speakers?

if I understand your question, no, not per se but

- there is an adjustable height setting for the height channel speakers but they aren't going to magically channel the signal sent to the center channel speaker into the height speakers. I know of no AVR or prepro that would do exactly what you asked - use the ht speakers as a virtual center channel

- some yamaha AVR's could adjust the ht of the dedicated center channel

- the big dollar Trinnov processor & its discontinued Sherwood 972 Trinnov sibling can change virtual speaker positioning

edit - see my next post smile.gif

Pioneer has virtual height, virtual width & virtual depth settings for the front l/r speakers, tho, so virtual ht may have some effect on dialog positioning, especially if you went with a phantom center.

I plan on installing height speakers before end of year, maybe by Nov so can better address ht channel questions then smile.gif

in the meantime, I will try the virtual height very soon, probably this weekend, on a dynamic movie track and will post my impressions.
Edited by ss9001 - 9/27/12 at 5:51am
post #230 of 1835
Thread Starter 
I may have spoken too quickly when I said it wouldn't adjust center height.

I forgot about the Dialog Enhancement feature. Paraphrasing a bit from the manual -

"It localizes dialog in the center channel to make it stand out from other background sounds"...By moving from UP1...through UP4, you can make the source source seem to relocate upwards.

Now, I've used this feature in the SC-09 but Pioneer doesn't describe it in the exact same way in the 09 manual, basically just saying it makes it stand out more from the background. So I don't know if the version in the 68 is any different or the same.

But I'll try it and let you know my impressions smile.gif Altho, my center speaker is suspended above the Kuro so already seems to emanate from a high position wink.gif But we'll see, don't know until I try it...if this feature has been updated to have a ht component, then that'll be a pleasant surprise.

Stay tuned
post #231 of 1835
Thanks ss9001, great news for me with the volume etc. osd as my equipment is hidden. Yeah I should have been more specific with the center channel stuff, I know the onkyo top end reciever bleeds some of the dialogue into the heights as to give the impression that sound is coming from center of screen and some have said it works rather well. I was wondering if the Pioneers did the same. I did read the manual online but it isn't clear whether like you said it just makes voices louder or moves them up the screen . thanks again.
post #232 of 1835
I'm considering purchasing an SC-67 or SC-68 to replace a receiver of another brand that shall remain nameless that is giving me constant problems. I basically have two questions I'm looking to have answered.

First, one feature my current receiver has is a so-called "HDMI bypass" in which the receiver's built-in video processor can be bypassed when the receiver is given a signal via HDMI, leaving the video untouched but still allowing the receiver to handle the audio. This disables to ability to see on-screen menus but reduces additional lag caused by the receiver's video processor and also any sort of quality degredation since there's one less thing in the signal path (plus the video processor in my current receiver is sub-par). As I connect my PC to my receiver then to my TV, having this ability is important to me.

I've looked at the manuals available online and it looks like there's an option to pass through video, but it's a bit ambiguous as to what this actually does. Please note that I'm trying to pass video through untouched while the receiver still handles audio, I'm not asking about HDMI through modes where the signal can be fed through the receiver while the receiver is off.

Second, has anyone used one these models with electrostatic speakers? My front three speakers are all MartinLogan hybrid electrostatics, I'm curious as to how the receiver handles the lower impedance as well as the sound in general.

Any input is much appreciated. Thanks.
post #233 of 1835
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash676 View Post

First, one feature my current receiver has is a so-called "HDMI bypass" in which the receiver's built-in video processor can be bypassed when the receiver is given a signal via HDMI, leaving the video untouched but still allowing the receiver to handle the audio. This disables to ability to see on-screen menus but reduces additional lag caused by the receiver's video... Please note that I'm trying to pass video through untouched while the receiver still handles audio...

Second, has anyone used one these models with electrostatic speakers?

yes to both smile.gif

In the Pioneer, you just turn the Video Converter off. HDMI then bypasses the video processor (Marvell Qdeo), and is untouched by any processing in the receiver. In fact, this was how Pioneer treated HDMI signals in previous models prior to the SC-37 I believe. It was their philosophy to "do no harm" to the video, preferring all processing take place in the player or the display. But they bowed to competitive & user pressure to have the video processor also be an option for HDMI and so you can use it or not, your choice smile.gif And you will still see your OSD of volume, listening modes, setup menus, etc. with it turned off.

I've been a Magnepan speaker owner since '82 & have an all - Maggie setup that I've driven with the SC-09 Ice amps & now the new 68. The 68 handles them all with no problem. While not electrostats per se, they are high power demand planars, all 4 ohm and pretty low efficiency. If it can handle my Maggies, your M'L's shouldn't be a problem, unless you have their top $$ models for every channel wink.gif Since M-L's have higher efficiency than Maggies & most of them still use conventional woofer cones for bass I would think you'll be OK. The 68 is THX Ultra 2 certified so it's passed power tests to ~ 3.2 ohms IIRC and also for the 1st time, Pioneer has officially given these receivers 4 ohm rating.

Which M-L models do you have? For comparison, I use Maggie 3.6 as fronts, their CC3 center and MC1's as surrounds. None of them is higher than ~86 dB eff.

I tested the 68 with fronts set to Large & turned the volume up to -3 to -2 just to see if the amps would shut down in protection mode with 2 ch & surround music...they didn't smile.gif Sounded about the same as a 2 ch hi-powered class A/B amp I have specifically designed for e-stats (an Innersound ESL300, Innersound is now Sanders Sound Systems who makes his own designed e-stat speakers, amp design is Roger Sanders, amp is made by Coda)

Forum member DonH50 also has Maggies & uses a SC-27 with them, IIRC. There are others but I can't recall specific member names smile.gif
Edited by ss9001 - 9/28/12 at 6:01am
post #234 of 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

yes to both smile.gif
In the Pioneer, you just turn the Video Converter off. HDMI then bypasses the video processor (Marvell Qdeo), and is untouched by any processing in the receiver. In fact, this was how Pioneer treated HDMI signals in previous models prior to the SC-37 I believe. It was their philosophy to "do no harm" to the video, preferring all processing take place in the player or the display. But they bowed to competitive & user pressure to have the video processor also be an option for HDMI and so you can use it or not, your choice smile.gif And you will still see your OSD of volume, listening modes, setup menus, etc. with it turned off.
I've been a Magnepan speaker owner since '82 & have an all - Maggie setup that I've driven with the SC-09 Ice amps & now the new 68. The 68 handles them all with no problem. While not electrostats per se, they are high power demand planars, all 4 ohm and pretty low efficiency. If it can handle my Maggies, your M'L's shouldn't be a problem, unless you have their top $$ models for every channel wink.gif Since M-L's have higher efficiency than Maggies & most of them still use conventional woofer cones for bass I would think you'll be OK. The 68 is THX Ultra 2 certified so it's passed power tests to ~ 3.2 ohms IIRC and also for the 1st time, Pioneer has officially given these receivers 4 ohm rating.
Which M-L models do you have? For comparison, I use Maggie 3.6 as fronts, their CC3 center and MC1's as surrounds. None of them is higher than ~86 dB eff.
I tested the 68 with fronts set to Large & turned the volume up to -3 to -2 just to see if the amps would shut down in protection mode with 2 ch & surround music...they didn't smile.gif Sounded about the same as a 2 ch hi-powered class A/B amp I have specifically designed for e-stats (an Innersound ESL300, Innersound is now Sanders Sound Systems who makes his own designed e-stat speakers, amp design is Roger Sanders, amp is made by Coda)
Forum member DonH50 also has Maggies & uses a SC-27 with them, IIRC. There are others but I can't recall specific member names smile.gif

Is the OSD on overlay over whatever video source is present? If it's an overlay, I'm a little confused as to how it could bypass all processing yet still merge the OSD with the video.

My MLs aren't anything extravagant, just their bottom tier ElectroMotion ESLs as the L/R and the Motif as the center. All 4 surrounds are the FX2s, but they're a traditional cone woofer paired with two air motion transformers. I may have to buy two more since this receiver can power 9 channels. Most receivers don't have any issues driving them but when I've heard them through lower model receivers they just didn't sound quite "right," for lack of a better description. I guess my real question is how do class D amps sound? Most reviews I've read are good, but seem to indiciate that there's an audible difference between class D and A/B, even if subtle. I doubt I could tell the difference. My current receiver is Harman/Kardon's previous flagship 7550HD (which sounds quite nice provided it works correctly, which is rare for me), so I am accustomed to the sound from a high end receiver.

As always, input is appreciated.
post #235 of 1835
^^^

yes, in order to overlay, there is some "processing" going on... however, what steve is saying is that the "other processing" (scaling/deinterlacing/"enhancements") are bypassed...

overlaying the osd SHOULD be a non-issue in terms of molesting the signal...
post #236 of 1835
I was in Best Buy yesterday and got a brief look at the Elites. There was an SC-61 that had plastic knobs, and an SC-65 that had what I think were metal knobs. Am I correct that the SC-65 and higher have the metal knobs?
post #237 of 1835
Thread Starter 
^^
I can't answer you directly, having not looked at the 65 & 67. The knobs on the 68 look & feel like they are metal but even that is not 100% guaranteed.
post #238 of 1835
Thread Starter 
The ss9001 integrated setup has been open for "business" since last weekend (whew). New cabinet, re-built cabinet & reassembled gear, new cables, and a lot of BS&T eek.gif getting the SC-68 hooked up to work with the SC-09. Putting the finishing touches to my URC remote smile.gif

I did discover several weeks ago that what I thought I was observing with the HDMI zone 4 output was not really the way it worked redface.gif I thought it was acting like a repeater on the output side but it's really an input splitter which makes sense. It turned out that the 68's processing & listening modes didn't do anything at all to zone 4 HDMI. All the processing was still being done by the 09, so that setup wouldn't accomplish my objective - using the 68 as a prepro. For its intended purpose, the zone 4 HDMI is a nice added feature so you can feed another AVR in a bedroom or 2nd room . It does work as a matrix output, main zone & zone 4 can have 2 different sources. I haven't confirmed whether it can do the same source but my gut says it will...if it's truly a splitter.

Ended up going the original plan - 68 preamp outs to the 09's multichannel analogs ins. Go pure direct in the 09 & completely turn off mcacc. and dedicated long HDMI run to the kuro as another input.

It works! I now have the best of both worlds biggrin.gif

Next up is looking at adding ht channels somewhere in the setup.

I did try virtual height last night on Hunger Games...it did add a subtle change to the front stage, sort of like adding additional ambience to it, not a reverb effect at all, just added "something" which was noticeable when I turned it off smile.gif The effect was pleasing but certainly not game changing wink.gif No surprise there. I'd like to add height speakers in such a position that it adds an overhead effect w/o changing the front stage much...I'm thinking locating the speakers high but more in front of the mains not directly above them might be interesting...Denon AVP owner ohyeah32 has such a setup, in his case locating the hts directly above his side surrounds.

Planning on heights before end of the year smile.gif
post #239 of 1835
^^^

wow, i never expected you to emerge from behind the rack... tongue.gif

where are the pics? i'm always envious of your cable management... you need to come visit so you can clean up mine... smile.gif
post #240 of 1835
Hi all, few things, first

REMOTe-suddenly the up down function of the main (round direction disc) wont work? (sc67 brand new)

Cant log onto Pandora with my existing account no matter what I do?!

DLNA-I can get to my mp3 files and I can use these with other sources eg. my new panasonic tv, they show up on my gui but no sound!

BUT FIRST THE REMOTE ANY HELP PLEASE!
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