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Official Pioneer SC-68/67 Thread - Page 9

post #241 of 1835
ok remote probem fixed, actually wasnt the remote the receiver itself was stuck in network mode, error, just wouldnt budge, did the old unplug replug, works.

pandora drving me fricking nuts, just says network error, I AM USING correct username password, as far as I know, from what I gleen username is the same as email (which ishow one signs in to pandora).
post #242 of 1835
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by symphx View Post

ok remote probem fixed, actually wasnt the remote the receiver itself was stuck in network mode, error, just wouldnt budge, did the old unplug replug, works.
pandora drving me fricking nuts, just says network error, I AM USING correct username password, as far as I know, from what I gleen username is the same as email (which ishow one signs in to pandora).

hmmm

haven't signed up for pandora or vtuner internet radio yet. I'll probably opt for vtuner because it'll be 100% free tongue.gifwink.gif when it comes to background music I'm going to be cheap, like pay zero, nada...sirius in the car is enough to pay out wink.gif

I hope your problems are not symptomatic of the way it normally works. I do know my iphone has lost connectivity to it several times over the past few days...I just hit the update button on the iphone and it does reconnect so I assume it's the wireless connectivity that's getting dropped but I don't know for sure.

can you get tunes from pandora on your PC?
Edited by ss9001 - 10/1/12 at 6:32am
post #243 of 1835
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TITANS1 View Post

Does the pioneer have a setting to adjust the height of the center channel sound, like to give it an effect of coming from center of 120 inch screen vertically using height speakers? If so does anyone use it and how well does it work. Thanks

TITANS

got sort of an update for you. I apologize for my earlier thoughts on this, since I believe I was wrong & misled you redface.gif

I did try Dialog Enhancement today & with no height speakers, I only get the Flat setting as an option, not the Up options at all. I went into the speaker setup and set the hts to Yes, then the Up options became available.

So the answer to your question is yes - the SC-68 does send some of the center channel to the the height speakers when you choose Dialog Enhance and use the Up options. I can't say how well it works because I don't have any actual ht speakers connected yet wink.gif

you may have an SC-68 already or decided on something else but I did want to confirm this feature does exist in the 68 and that you were correct & I was wrong on this one redface.gif

It does look promising for projection screens smile.gif Some of the features in this receiver continue to surprise me - in a good way smile.gif I just didn't know current receivers had this ability. But now that I'm thinking about it, this is probably how the Yamaha raised the center, by using their front presence speakers redface.gif

I'm glad I was wrong and this feature exists because it makes the 68 useful for PJ screens. Nice touch, Pioneer!
Edited by ss9001 - 10/1/12 at 3:40am
post #244 of 1835
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

where are the pics? i'm always envious of your cable management... you need to come visit so you can clean up mine... smile.gif

lol

chris, I took some pics but don't remember if any are from the cable side but a couple are the new & old cabinets side-by-side with all the gear.

I have to DL from the camera & see eek.gif
will post 'em later maybe by tonight smile.gif
post #245 of 1835
I have been following this thread for the past month or so before buying SC-67. I would say this thread has been very informative and useful. Thanks to all contributors.

Setup:
Room size: 18x14 great room. 90% of waking hours are spent in this room.
SC-67
Bowers & Wilkins 683 Pair R/L, HTM61B Center
Bose 100 J Series for Surround Wide (most likely temporary)

Would like your input on Subwoofer. Budget is around $600 and considered GoldenEar ForceField 4 and Def Tech SuperCube 2000. Played with ForceField 3 a bit and decided to go with bigger sub. Also, there is not much room for sub placement near TV it has to behind the sofa or in one of the two corners.

Currently setting up only 5.1 and will be expanding to other zone in the future.
post #246 of 1835
Thread Starter 
Have you looked at SVS, Velodyne, Epik or Rythmic? Or even Hsu Research?

for instance -
http://www.epiksubwoofers.com/empire.html

or
http://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/sealed-box/sb12-nsd#.UGyZM65oFiI

the epik would blow away the supercube and yet costs not much more. SVS is a very strong subwoofer company, highly recommended.

if you can do cherry finish, sale price on Velodyne Optimum 8
http://velodyne.com/subwoofers/optimum-series/optimum-8-cherry.html

the optimum's also include a slimmer version of Velodyne's EQ system, which I've used in one of their DD subs. Top-notch, only surpassed by the audyssey system for subs. But take a look at their other models, if you need black. Velodyne is a highly respected, tho not low cost, subwoofer company. They make some of the best subs in the industry.

I guess what I'm saying is in any price range, there are alternatives. Besides the Velodyne DD18, I also own a Supercube, an older discontinued model, the SC I. While it's good for what it does, it does NOT go anywhere close to where DT spec'd it at (13 Hz, when actual bench tests show about ~28 hz as the real world cut-off - my own measurements were consistent with this, no audible output < 27 hz). Nothing wrong with Supercubes, but you can get more subwoofer for your money. and it doesn't have to be a monster sized sub wink.gif And if I had done a bit more research, I wouldn't have bought it. I consider it to be one of my bigger mistakes when I started upgrading gear 9 yrs ago. It works, just not nearly as good as what DT spec'd. This was a common practice with DT when it came to subs but I don't know how their latest Supercubes stack up nor if the specs are more realistic. Like most compact subs, DT uses passive radiators & large excursion woofers to get low bass from small drivers & boxes - there's no magic here...the laws of physics apply wink.gif The only drawback to those is maybe more distortion than larger drivers. It's a trade-off. If your primary interest is movie effects, higher distortion in an explosion may not matter a whole lot, but for low bass music, it might.

before you plunk down the $$, consider one of the above and see if you can audition a Supercube in a dealer. There are many other worthy sub options, I've just listed a few.

The Supercube would be a fine compact sub for the money but consider some options before you make that decision. I know I wish I had spent more time on some of my earlier buying decisions smile.gif
Edited by ss9001 - 10/3/12 at 1:21pm
post #247 of 1835
^^^

+1... there are a boatload of other WAY better options for the sub... the supercube is more like a midbass module... tongue.gif

op, post your requirements in the subwoofer subforum, along with your budget... the guys there will take care of you... smile.gif
post #248 of 1835
Thread Starter 
^^
highly 2nd what ccotenj said...I didn't want to diss DT subs that much in a post but I wouldn't buy one again.
post #249 of 1835
^^^

you know me... direct and unvarnished... tongue.gif
post #250 of 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

^^
highly 2nd what ccotenj said...I didn't want to diss DT subs that much in a post but I wouldn't buy one again.

I don't take my Mythos ST mains seriously as subs either. However, the powered section does come in handy as a "mid-bass volume control", and you can control level and distance for them separately from the non-powered section of the speakers with the Pioneer, which can come in handy for advanced MCACC calibration.

Regardless, unless you're primarily interested in two-channel stereo, or have a listening room the size of a small bedroom (or less), I'd strongly recommend getting one of the Internet Direct company's sub(s). I personally would start with two for best pressurization of the room, but YMMV, for home theater use.
post #251 of 1835
Hi all,

Presently I have a Pio VSX-9040 with an Emotiva UPA-7. If I get the SC-65, should I remove the amp?
UPA-7 is 125 watts per channel while SC-65 is 140 watts.
Thanks.
post #252 of 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

Have you looked at SVS, Velodyne, Epik or Rythmic? Or even Hsu Research?
for instance -
http://www.epiksubwoofers.com/empire.html
or
http://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/sealed-box/sb12-nsd#.UGyZM65oFiI

the epik would blow away the supercube and yet costs not much more. SVS is a very strong subwoofer company, highly recommended.
if you can do cherry finish, sale price on Velodyne Optimum 8
http://velodyne.com/subwoofers/optimum-series/optimum-8-cherry.html
the optimum's also include a slimmer version of Velodyne's EQ system, which I've used in one of their DD subs. Top-notch, only surpassed by the audyssey system for subs. But take a look at their other models, if you need black. Velodyne is a highly respected, tho not low cost, subwoofer company. They make some of the best subs in the industry.
I guess what I'm saying is in any price range, there are alternatives. Besides the Velodyne DD18, I also own a Supercube, an older discontinued model, the SC I. While it's good for what it does, it does NOT go anywhere close to where DT spec'd it at (13 Hz, when actual bench tests show about ~28 hz as the real world cut-off - my own measurements were consistent with this, no audible output < 27 hz). Nothing wrong with Supercubes, but you can get more subwoofer for your money. and it doesn't have to be a monster sized sub wink.gif And if I had done a bit more research, I wouldn't have bought it. I consider it to be one of my bigger mistakes when I started upgrading gear 9 yrs ago. It works, just not nearly as good as what DT spec'd. This was a common practice with DT when it came to subs but I don't know how their latest Supercubes stack up nor if the specs are more realistic. Like most compact subs, DT uses passive radiators & large excursion woofers to get low bass from small drivers & boxes - there's no magic here...the laws of physics apply wink.gif The only drawback to those is maybe more distortion than larger drivers. It's a trade-off. If your primary interest is movie effects, higher distortion in an explosion may not matter a whole lot, but for low bass music, it might.
before you plunk down the $$, consider one of the above and see if you can audition a Supercube in a dealer. There are many other worthy sub options, I've just listed a few.
The Supercube would be a fine compact sub for the money but consider some options before you make that decision. I know I wish I had spent more time on some of my earlier buying decisions smile.gif

You are awesome! This is great info! Thanks a million!

1) Given the size and weight of Epik sub (linked above), I am going to pass on this.
2) SVS sub is my budget range and specs and look very good as well. Will have to think little more about it.
3) Any thoughts on ForceField 4?
post #253 of 1835
Code:
Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmofanv View Post

You are awesome! This is great info! Thanks a million!
1) Given the size and weight of Epik sub (linked above), I am going to pass on this.
2) SVS sub is my budget range and specs and look very good as well. Will have to think little more about it.
3) Any thoughts on ForceField 4?

ForceField 4 is GoldenEar, the company that Sandy Gross founded after he left DefTech. However, DT consistently reported greater low bass response in their specs than was measured independently for their subs (i.e. a SuperCube I's specs showing FR as low as 13 Hz, but the +/- 3 db point being closer to 26-28 Hz according to measurement's by Tom Nousaine).

Unless you really want the smaller footprint, I would be skeptical of the ForceField hitting lower than some of the better competitive ID subs at a similar price point. They claim 14 Hz, but is that at the typical +/- 3 db or something more forgiving? But you're really better off asking about this on the subwoofer sub-forum for more direction.

Having said that, I still have occasional cognitive dissonance over buying DT Mythos ST less than a year before the Golden Ear Triton series had the next generation of the tweeters in the Mythos.

Edit: I was citing ss9001's post #2 on this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1385283/definitive-technology-supercube-i
Edited by sdrucker - 10/4/12 at 9:26am
post #254 of 1835
Thread Starter 
I've listened to the front Golden Ears at 2 CEDIA shows but have no input on their subs. I still believe in my heart that you're better off with one of the dedicated subwoofer companies rather than a sub from a speaker company. Subwoofer companies specialize in subs, that's mostly all they do & they don't have to spend their money & yours matching a speaker style wink.gif They are dedicated to delivering the best sub performance at a given price point and features.

Velodyne puts money into servo control for very low distortion, onboard EQ & other features while the internet direct brands seem more focused on lowest bass extension & SPL for a good price.

I don't want to cast the founder/owner of Golden Ear in a bad light - Sandy Gross helped found 2 previous & very successful speaker companies, Polk & DefTech. And his Tritons are excellent speakers & not expensive for a hi-end speaker. But I ask you this -

Do you believe this spec for the FF4: 14 Hz - 250 Hz? With about the same size driver & radiator as the Supercube I? Hmmm

Sounds pretty familiar to me - being about the same as what DefTech specified the Supercube I at & which doesn't come anywhere close to meeting that specified low end freq.

And keep in mind that all the time DefTech was known for over-spec'ing their Supercube subs, Mr. Sandy Gross was the owner & President of DefTech.

Food for thought...

You can't go wrong with any of the brands we've suggested to you.

And I've personally talked to the owner of SVS. He helped me with their discontinued AS-EQ1 bass equalizer that I didn't even buy from them - it was forum member Austin Jerry's and he sold it used on the forum. A lesser gentleman or a big mainstream company could have told me it was used, out of warranty or they no longer supported it. Instead, he spent a hr on the phone with me on software issues and had their Audyssey software "guru" call me several times from the west coast to help me - all this right before the New Years weekend. Now that's service & a class act.

It's your money, you're the one who has to be happy with it...if the cabinet size & looks dept outweigh performance, then that's the way you should go. But if you want the best performance, lowest real world freq response, higher sound levels, for a decent price, then you can definitely do better than the Supercube and most likely the FF4. It's your choice smile.gif

fyi - another compact sub is the Sunfire Jr. from Carver's Sunfire company. May be more difficult to find a local dealer, but it is an option. I still would steer you to a dedicated subwoofer company, though wink.gif Just my opinion wink.gif
Edited by ss9001 - 10/4/12 at 9:26am
post #255 of 1835
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

Code:
ForceField 4 is GoldenEar, the company that Sandy Gross founded after he left DefTech. However, DT consistently reported greater low bass response in their specs than was measured independently for their subs (i.e. a SuperCube I's specs showing FR as low as 13 Hz, but the +/- 3 db point being closer to 26-28 Hz according to measurement's by Tom Nousaine).
Unless you really want the smaller footprint, I would be skeptical of the ForceField hitting lower than some of the better competitive ID subs at a similar price point. They claim 14 Hz, but is that at the typical +/- 3 db or something more forgiving? But you're really better off asking about this on the subwoofer sub-forum for more direction.
Having said that, I still have occasional cognitive dissonance over buying DT Mythos ST less than a year before the Golden Ear Triton series had the next generation of the tweeters in the Mythos.
Edit: I was citing ss9001's post #2 on this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1385283/definitive-technology-supercube-i

Stu, great minds think alike - while I was writing & editing you beat me to "send" wink.gif

I made the same point for the same reasons - knowing his former company's track record with sub specs, I wouldn't trust the published subwoofer specs. Not unless I had real bench test to verify the claim.
Edited by ss9001 - 10/4/12 at 9:36am
post #256 of 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

Stu, great minds think alike - while I was writing & editing you beat me to "send" wink.gif
I made the same point for the same reasons - knowing his former company's track record with sub specs, I wouldn't trust the published subwoofer specs. Not unless I had real bench test to verify the claim.

For completion's sake (although this really belongs in a subwoofer thread, if there is one, on DefTech):
I read the Sound and Vision review of their newest sub, which is the Supercube 8000 (and replaces the SuperCube I). It seems like the measurement issue is still relevant, given that DT claims 11 Hz as the low end of their FR on their website. Granted this is one reviewer, but he cites buzzing issues as high as 63 Hz, and a possible bottoming out at 25 Hz. Regardless, if I read the chart on the last page of the review correctly, you're below -3 db at 30-40 Hz (hard to tell from the graph's resolution exactly where, but the reviewer says 32 Hz), which is consistent with other DefTech subs in the past (e.g. the measurement of the SuperCube components built into my Mythos):

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article/test-report-definitive-technology-studiomonitor-sm65-and-sm45-speakers-supercube-8000-subwoo?page=0,2
post #257 of 1835
Stu, Steve,

I did not know the history of exaggeration of the specs by DT. Good thing that I posted before making a purchase. Since Sandy Gross is the owner (or partner) of the GoldenEar, I am sure specs must have been exaggerated as well.

Given all the factors, I will proceed with SVS SB12-NSD. Will update you.

Thanks for your passion to support newbies like me.
post #258 of 1835
Thread Starter 
^^
I don't want you to get the wrong idea. I have listened to the Tritons, excellent speaker. And who can't but respect Mr. Gross' contributions to the speaker industry. His business acumen & millions vs an audio enthusiast like me. No contest.

But..always a but wink.gif IMO, when a company publishes specs, the product ought to at least come close to meeting them. Other than more recent reviews in Home Theater Mag & the Sound & VIsion one Stu linked to, all the glowing reviews I ever found for the Supercubes NEVER posted test measurements, and DefTech NEVER published - 3 dB or even -6 db limits on freq response. Never.

That 13 Hz for the Supercube I is probably -20 or 30 db because I have a CD with test tones all the way down to 16 Hz, and < about 27 Hz, I heard or felt NOTHING with my ears & hand right next to my Supercube I. That is definitely NOT the case with the Velodyne. You can easily hear & feel lots of output all the way down to its rated low end, ~15 Hz IIRC. The 2 are not anywhere close in price but that's not the point - if DefTech published 28 Hz, I'd have no beef. But they chose to significantly inflate their published specs, so the buyer thinks he's getting something he's not & that's what I object to - false advertising. And their "out" is they don't publish the - dB number so even if it's -80 dB down they technically haven't "lied" tongue.gif That's why I will never buy another DefTech product again. As much as I can say the GE Tritons sounded very nice, I wouldn't buy one of their subs. But that's me.

While the Golden Ear Tritons are highly acclaimed, On the Forcefield, this is the same type of reviews you'd read for the Supercubes:

http://hometheaterreview.com/goldenear-technology-forcefield-4-subwoofer-reviewed/

a lot of glowing remarks, regurgitating the spec'd low end performance but no tests, no proof how well it meets those specs. Dedicated, respected subwoofer companies like Velodyne, SVS, etc. submit their subs for rigorous testing by review sites, including not just freq response but also tot harmonic distortion and how well they meet the published distortion specs. You won't find specs for distortion numbers either on a DefTech web site or manual. But Velodyne publishes them & mostly meets them with their servo models. Same for SVS.

There's a real world thread on HiDefJunkies forum about someone's experience with the FF. I wish I could link to it but AVS Forum doesn't allow links to other forums. I tried redface.gif

In this thread, a guy buys the Tritons & FF4 sub from a GE dealer but after using the sub, decides its rather weak for his room and wasn't happy with it. His dealer allowed the owner to return the FF sub and got him into a REL sub. REL is a very highly respected sub company for "musical" subs. They are decidedly not cheap but are another example of the real deal.

All this is to say....many speaker companies are not the best choices for the highest performing subs. It doesn't matter if its Golden Ear, DefTech, Paradigm, Klipsch, or (name the brand). If you want top performance, you are usually better off buying a sub from a company that's known for subs.
Edited by ss9001 - 10/4/12 at 4:45pm
post #259 of 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

^^

In this thread, the guy's GE dealer allowed the owner to return the FF sub for a REL sub. REL is a very highly respected sub company for "musical" subs. They are decidedly not cheap but are another example of the real deal.

All this is to say....many speaker companies are not the best choices for the highest performing subs. It doesn't matter if its Golden Ear, DefTech, Paradigm, Klipsch, or (name the brand). If you want top performance, you are usually better off buying a sub from a company that's known for subs.

REL are great subs and IMO are value priced considering their sound.

I currently have a Velodyne MiniVee and love its' capabilities. I bought it due to their company being known for high quality sound and build quality. I would also recommend Sunfire by Bob Carver. smile.gif

http://www.sunfire.com/
Edited by kcin76 - 10/4/12 at 5:15pm
post #260 of 1835
After asking some questions here, I purchased an SC-68 to replace a Harman/Kardon AVR7550HD that was giving me constant problems. Thank you to everyone who took the time to respond.

I haven't had time to set anything up in depth, but thus far it works properly and sounds nice, which is to say I can't tell it apart from my previous receiver, which is a plus in my book. It definitely runs cool and is very quiet which was the final deciding factor that pushed me to the SC-68 over a few other brands. It runs my MartinLogans without any issue.

I do have two questions so far. First, does anyone know what the DFilter settings of Slow, Sharp, and Short actually do? The manuals explanation wasn't very specific.

Two, I'm trying to find a method to allow my picture in picture feature of my TV to function and provide audio from the TV with video from my PC.

The applicable part of my setup is this:
-The HDMI 1 input to the SC-68 is my PC.
-I do not have cable and so my TV is connected directly to an antenna via the coax input on the TV.
-The TV can provide audio to the SC-68 either via ARC or optical.

I'd like to be able to use my picture in picture such that the two video sources are my PC and TV, but the audio source is the TV. With my old receiver, I accomplished this by having the video input for watching TV set up so that HDMI 1 input (my PC) was the video source and the Optical 1 input (my TV) was the audio source. This way, the receiver displayed the video from the PC and the TV itself overlayed its tuner over it. The receiver used the TV's optical for audio instead of the PC's HDMI. If I wanted to watch TV full screen the same input still worked, since the TV itself would be set to display video from its tuner and not HDMI 1, so the PC signal would just be ignored. The end result was that the same input of HDMI 1 (PC) and Optical 1 (TV) worked for both standalone fullscreen TV and PIP with my TV and PC as sources. Because I could assign HDMI inputs more than once, I also had a seperate mode where HDMI provided both video and audio when I wanted to use my PC alone.

The problem I'm having with the SC-68 is that I don't seem to be able to assign the HDMI inputs more than once. So if HDMI 1 is assigned as the video source for "DVD", for example, it doesn't seem that it can also be the video source for "SAT."

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Edit: Nevermind question two. I figured it out by running an optical cable from the TV to the SC-68 and assigning it as the audio source for the same input as my PC. I can then use the "Signal Sel button" to switch between HDMI audio from the PC and optical audio from the TV. But it would be nice if I could use ARC as the audio sorce. It seems weird to use ARC when watching TV by itself but using the optical out when using PIP.
Edited by Flash676 - 10/4/12 at 11:52pm
post #261 of 1835
Get an Epik Legend sub which is compact with extension down to 16Hz which is in the price range mentioned.
post #262 of 1835
The Epik Legend is much smaller than the Empire with two 12 in drives.
post #263 of 1835
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash676 View Post

The problem I'm having with the SC-68 is that I don't seem to be able to assign the HDMI inputs more than once. So if HDMI 1 is assigned as the video source for "DVD", for example, it doesn't seem that it can also be the video source for "SAT."

I'm not sure 100% sure but I highly doubt any receiver can do that if I understand your question.
Once it's assigned, it's assigned.

What you can do, though, is un-assign the defaults in the receiver & re-assign them to another input or leave them un-assigned as HDMI 1, 2, 3 etc. This could free up inputs to use the legacy analogs. In the HDMI setup menu, you go to that input, turn its HDMI numbered input off, which frees that HDMI input for another input or you can choose to leave it un-assigned & use as HDMI 1, 2, 3. Hopefully, you get the idea. If I wanted to use HDMI 1 for cable rather than DVD, this is how you do it. But you can't have 1 HDMI input for 2 sources, won't work that way. The only way to do that is get an ext HDMI switcher for the 2 sources but not sure that accomplishes anything unless have more than 8 HDMI devices & ran out of inputs.

But your way & selecting the audio signal to use works just fine smile.gif
post #264 of 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

I'm not sure 100% sure but I highly doubt any receiver can do that if I understand your question.
Once it's assigned, it's assigned.
What you can do, though, is un-assign the defaults in the receiver & re-assign them to another input or leave them un-assigned as HDMI 1, 2, 3 etc. This could free up inputs to use the legacy analogs. In the HDMI setup menu, you go to that input, turn its HDMI numbered input off, which frees that HDMI input for another input or you can choose to leave it un-assigned & use as HDMI 1, 2, 3. Hopefully, you get the idea. If I wanted to use HDMI 1 for cable rather than DVD, this is how you do it. But you can't have 1 HDMI input for 2 sources, won't work that way. The only way to do that is get an ext HDMI switcher for the 2 sources but not sure that accomplishes anything unless have more than 8 HDMI devices & ran out of inputs.
But your way & selecting the audio signal to use works just fine smile.gif

Thanks for your response. I think the way I have it set up now is currently the best it's going to get for what I want I want it to do, since really the only difference from the receiver's perspective is the audio source. I may just disable ARC since I had to run an optical cable from the TV, unless anyone knows of any advantages for ARC that wouldn't be present with optical. I don't think my TV can pass through any signals that optical can't carry.

What threw me off is how the SC-68 assigns inputs. With my last receiver, I could assign any combination of physical inputs to any logical source. So, for example, if my remote had buttons for logical sources 1 through 4, I could assign any combination of physical video input (HDMI, component, or composite) and physical audio input (analog, coax, optical, HDMI) to that logical source. I could also assign physical inputs more than once, so as an example, physical HDMI input 1 could be the video signal for all 4 logical sources. It was quite flexible.

It's a bit different with the SC-68 but I think I have it figured out now.
post #265 of 1835
Thread Starter 
Hey, folks...this just hit Home Theater Mag's site:

http://www.hometheater.com/content/pioneer-elite-sc-68-av-receiver

Very positive review

But I'm delving into it right now for details smile.gif
post #266 of 1835
I'm guessing still 9 band EQ ?

I love MCACC - but please can we have more "points" - I have to make so many compromises in the EQ (even performed manually) as the frequency ranges are too wide

I don't see why it couldn't go to 11+ bands ?

also - parametric sub EQ would be rather useful please Pioneer - so as to not be left behind - can't be that hard to implement manually ? I'd settle for being able to EQ 3-4 problematic peaks - nothing fancy

other than that - looks nice - that distortion to power curve looks a bit odd though - but I'm guessing it was the same on the 57 - which sounded great to me
Edited by markabuckley - 10/5/12 at 2:09pm
post #267 of 1835
not sure if different testing

but the 57 - power/distortion curve looks far better ? seems odd

http://www.hometheater.com/content/pioneer-elite-sc-57-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures
post #268 of 1835
Thread Starter 
^^
I noticed that too. I was told the 68's power supply is supposed to be bigger so don't know what's up with these. Maybe a more rigid test, a sample fluke or maybe that's what it is.

I'll try to get some feedback on this soon, hopefully next week. Walkamo....I need your help smile.gif

On your other comments, there's a chance Pioneer will be listening to enthusiast desire for sub EQ, but no guarantees - they may be looking into it.

I think some of MCACC's other features get lost in the "noise" about sub EQ.

I really think the Phase Control feature can play a more important role than what we've given it credit for. After all, aren't group delay adjustments for phase also a form of compensation in the time domain - a term we hear ad infinitum from a competitive system? I do know from talking to Walkamo, Pioneer engineers put a lot of emphasis on preserving phase integrity. That's their objection to independent crossovers per channel, something their competition seems to not be considering. Maybe Pioneer is on to something...

If they included sub EQ, would everyone be happy? And would you be willing to give up something to make room for it on the DSP, like the fake "advanced" surround modes that nobody in their right mind uses anymore? How about THX? Would you trade THX add-on processing for sub EQ?
post #269 of 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

^^
I noticed that too. I was told the 68's power supply is supposed to be bigger so don't know what's up with these. Maybe a more rigid test, a sample fluke or maybe that's what it is.
I'll try to get some feedback on this soon, hopefully next week. Walkamo....I need your help smile.gif
On your other comments, there's a chance Pioneer will be listening to enthusiast desire for sub EQ, but no guarantees - they may be looking into it.
I think some of MCACC's other features get lost in the "noise" about sub EQ.
I really think the Phase Control feature can play a more important role than what we've given it credit for. After all, aren't group delay adjustments for phase also a form of compensation in the time domain - a term we hear ad infinitum from a competitive system? I do know from talking to Walkamo, Pioneer engineers put a lot of emphasis on preserving phase integrity. That's their objection to independent crossovers per channel, something their competition seems to not be considering. Maybe Pioneer is on to something...
If they included sub EQ, would everyone be happy? And would you be willing to give up something to make room for it on the DSP, like the fake "advanced" surround modes that nobody in their right mind uses anymore? How about THX? Would you trade THX add-on processing for sub EQ?

There's also DEQ and taking 8 measurements vs. 3 with MCACC...but keep talking. And pass the cherry Kool-Aid:).
post #270 of 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

^^
I noticed that too. I was told the 68's power supply is supposed to be bigger so don't know what's up with these. Maybe a more rigid test, a sample fluke or maybe that's what it is.
I'll try to get some feedback on this soon, hopefully next week. Walkamo....I need your help smile.gif
On your other comments, there's a chance Pioneer will be listening to enthusiast desire for sub EQ, but no guarantees - they may be looking into it.
I think some of MCACC's other features get lost in the "noise" about sub EQ.
I really think the Phase Control feature can play a more important role than what we've given it credit for. After all, aren't group delay adjustments for phase also a form of compensation in the time domain - a term we hear ad infinitum from a competitive system? I do know from talking to Walkamo, Pioneer engineers put a lot of emphasis on preserving phase integrity. That's their objection to independent crossovers per channel, something their competition seems to not be considering. Maybe Pioneer is on to something...
If they included sub EQ, would everyone be happy? And would you be willing to give up something to make room for it on the DSP, like the fake "advanced" surround modes that nobody in their right mind uses anymore? How about THX? Would you trade THX add-on processing for sub EQ?

more than willing to give up "advanced surround" modes for subEQ smile.gif

re whether the 68s PSU is bigger or not - interesting - but those results sure looked worse than those from the 57 and the ICE powered Pioneers - very odd

the results on that website tend to be pretty consistent too
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