Official Pioneer SC-68/67 Thread - Page 19

^^
definitely, without any doubt, passive

why? because there is no crossover network present in the receiver that segregates the hi freq, mid freq & low freq bands to send separate signals to each speaker driver connection.

before you say there is a crossover in the MCACC setup, that is for bass management & Low Freq Effects channel for sending bass from to a subwoofer. not the same thing. the crossover I'm referring to is circuitry that separates signals sent to your woofer, the midrange cone and the tweeter. all speakers have internal crossovers to do this and active bi-amping uses a separate "box" analog or digital to replace this circuitry with a customizable one, or a crossover design from a kit builder, etc. besides, unless they made it user adjustable, how would Pioneer know the specific crossover design for every speaker made on the planet? it would take a hard drive to store that much information

no receiver does active bi-amping, because the adjustable crossover circuitry needed doesn't exist in any of them.

I haven't done any of the updates yet downloaded them but not installed.

the flash drive must be clean with no other files on it, and the zip file must be extracted to it but not have the zip file itself on the flash drive.

I'll keep you posted how it goes.
Edited by ss9001 - 12/11/12 at 8:56am

you guys...

well, it worked for me!!

try it again, both of you. either Pioneer replaced some files very early this AM, like in the wee hours of the night, or there's "user error" at work

just for the record, the only files that are to be on the flash drive are the extracted bin files. DO NOT put the zip file or the extracted folder on the flash drive or it will fail. the bin files must be in the root directory not inside the un-zipped folder or it will fail. The directions clearly say files must be in the root directory. also, I would not cut/paste the files from the zipped file but use an extraction tool.

not saying you or anyone else did it wrong 'cause I don't know what anyone did or if Pioneer changed the files last night

but I'm making sure the right way to put the files on the usb stick is posted, for everyone's benefit - just in case, so don't take offense

I updated to the previous version 1st although that shouldn't be necessary based on Pioneer saying this also includes the HTC connection update. But it doesn't hurt to do them sequentially. I wanted there to be no room for doubt that this either works or it doesn't.

my starting version already had the ipad charging update, v. 1-180-084-512-107 so that's what I started with. then updated to v. 1-198-084-512-125, finally to 1-198-084-512-153.

the only quirk I encountered was after it shut off once the last update was done, I pulled the flash drive and the Software Update setting was greyed out. The only thing I figured was I may have lost network connectivity & since there was no usb drive, there was nothing detected by the receiver to update from, so it greyed out the choice. I rebooted my cable modem, router, and powered down & up the receiver and all was fine again - Software Update was available & indicating I had the latest Pandora version.

the FW update that I downloaded at 6:30AM Eastern installs perfectly fine.
Edited by ss9001 - 12/11/12 at 9:06am

gosh - you are making this much too hard (sigh)
I am going to try one more time to set you straight then I'm giving up

these are 2 examples of what is used to active bi-amp:

http://bryston.com/products/other/10B-STD.html
http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/DCX2496.aspx

review the features of these. do you see anything resembling that in any receiver you've ever looked at or owned? no

just because 2 speaker connections are labeled hi & low doesn't mean there's any circuitry behind them to separate the frequencies

let me ask, how can Pioneer know all the designs of thousands of speaker companies and models and program the receiver to automatically know that in advance when you plug in a speaker cable? it can't. or do you see anything in the menu where you can modify the crossover design like the 2 examples above? no

here's why it can't be done in a receiver and takes a custom box, either with adjustable controls or one custom built for a specific speaker and results:

I'll take 2 speaker companies and models:

Polk LSiMI707 tower:
Xover for tweeter: 3000 Hz
Xover for midrange: 300 Hz
Xover for woofer: 100 Hz

Magnepan 3.6R planar (my speaker)
Xover between tweeter & midrange: 1700 Hz
Xover between bass & midrange: 200 Hz

I hope you can see how radically different these are OK - do you see anything in the Pioneer menu that would allow you to set these or change them? I hope not because if you do, I'll trade you

and there are 2 way speakers, 3 way, 4 way & 5 way with a multitude of cones or drivers used, each one for a specific acoustic sound in which the speaker company designs a unique crossover circuit tailor-made to make that cone perform its best in the freq range it's best designed for. and there are various crossover circuit designs, each with its own phase characteristics, and unique reasons for use, names like Linkwitz-Riley, Butterworth, Polk uses an Orth design in one its bookshelves (whatever that is ) - I'm not an electrical engineer so I don't know how they differ, I just know that they do.

Pioneer cannot possibly build-in that kind of capability at the price point these receivers are. For example, the Bryston is over $3000 & funcitions in the analog domain while the Behringer is a budget unit in the $400 range that functions in the digital domain using analog-to-digital, back to analog converters. There are custom designers, like Marchand Elec, with will build you a crossover box based on a given speaker design or will use crossover points based on what the user tells them to use. or DIY's...there are many ways to do it.

but not in a receiver, not in a Pioneer or any other brand ever made.

it doesn't exist so wishing it were so doesn't change anything.

all any eceiver can do is passive bi-amping since that circuitry isn't in there. Now if you were willing to pay $10000 for a receiver with digital programming so you can design your own and apply it, sure Pioneer/Denon/Yamaha/Onkyo can do it.

and I've ignored the fact that speaker designers spend lots of hours and money in listening rooms & aneochic chambers, tweaking the circuits so they get the sound they want. What makes you think you & I, being speaker design dummies can equal what they pay EE's and audio engineers big bucks to do? the best use of an ext crossover box is to DUPLICATE or mildly tweak the companies crossover points so that they CAN separate the signals for active bi-amping, not re-design the speaker.

is it clear yet?

the reason for the labels is convenience. that's all, something so the user can hang his hat on where to plug the 2 sides into. trust me, I've seen the service manuals & circuit diagrams, both "hi" and "lo" are equal electrically and have nothing between them, just 2 amps putting out to 2 different jacks. How can they be otherwise since they ALSO can power & send the full freq range to the heights or widths.

I know you are trying to learn. so I spent the time to show you examples of why it isn't the way you'd like it to be but sometimes you'll have to accept that some of us old timers know what we are talking about. at least enough to be able to help folks use these things
Edited by ss9001 - 12/11/12 at 1:14pm

I hear ya

I don't know how large yours were, the ones that didn't work, but mine was 8 GB.
I couldn't find any info in the manual on a size limit for software updating but apparently there is.

Thanks for clearing up the mystery (sort of)...we prevail by trial & experimentation

and you had to go & spoil my well reasoned argument

OK - now I have something to look into & ponder.

I'll check Onkyo/Integra flagship model manuals again (which I've done for about 5 yrs and can't recall active biamp crossovers being there)

but I'll take your word for it...for now, Film, since I know you've used different brands & models over the years.
Edited by ss9001 - 12/11/12 at 2:53pm