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Official Pioneer SC-68/67 Thread - Page 24

post #691 of 1835
RE: Alternative wifi adapter for use with SC68..

I wanted to share my experience with finding an alternative to Pioneer's wifi adapter, not because of any issue with the Pioneer but because my piggy bank was empty and needed to find something a little more affordable.

I stumbled upon the Netgear WNCE3001 at my local electronics store in Canada. This is a dual band wireless-n (a/b/g/n) adapter, designed to be used with smart TV and blu-ray players which have wired Ethernet but not wireless. It cost me $60 plus taxes, which I think was about 1/2 what they were selling the Pioneer adapter for.

I have a Netgear R6300 router so I don't know what the experience would be if I were to try to connect to another manufacturers router. Anyway I will describe my experience so far, using it with the SC-68, connecting to my R6300..

The initial installation was very easy, just press the WPS button on the adapter, then press the WPS button on the R6300. The setup then happens automatically. Note, you can still setup using the manual method if your router does not support WPS.

First issue: when I first tried using the WNCE3001 I powered if from the USB output of the SC-68. This is ok as the SC-68 outputs sufficient current but it takes too long for the adapter to initialize so the SC-68 reports an error (can't recall the exact error message but probably it was something like network error)

The workaround was simply to use the power adapter supplied with the WNCE3001 and leave it powered on all the time. It runs really cool so I don't think it uses much power.

The second issue was more difficult to solve..

By default WPS sets up the adapter to use DHCP which ought to be ok as the SC-68 supports DHCP. However from investigations it appeared that my router was changing the IP address sometimes (probably depending on what other wireless devices were on in my house) but the SC-68 was stuck at the original IP address, this resulted in 'server error' when trying to use Internet Radio on the SC-68.

I tried setting up a DHCP reservation on my R6300 router and set up the SC-68 to a static IP to match, but still the two would get out of sync after running for about an hour.

The solution was to connect the WNCE3001 to my windows laptop, log in and configure it to use its internal DHCP and set the range so the start and end IP was the same. This in effect forced the WNCE3001 to always connect to the SC-68 using a static IP address, regardless of what IP address was assigned by my R6300 to the WNCE3001 (or at least, from reading the Netgear docs this is what I think happens)

Set up in this way the adapter so far has been very stable. The link speed is being reported as 162mbps (I know this is only a guide). The WNCE 3001 is about 60 feet from my R6300 router, with two partition walls and one floor in between.

I hope this helpful
post #692 of 1835
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EVT View Post

Thanks ss9001, I did see ALC mentioned in the user manual but I can't find any information on it online to determine if it works in a similar fashion to Dynamic Volume or Dolby Volume or whether it's applicable to all input signals. Your feedback would be greatly appreciated. I see your point about the economics behind decisions but unless this ALC technology is equivalent it means that Pioneer AVRs come up short on a feature many people (at least people I know who all seem to have small children) use on an everyday basis so it just seems like an oversight to me, one that's easily correctable.

http://www.thx.com/consumer/thx-technology/thx-loudness-plus/
http://www.hometheater.com/content/dueling-loudness-corrections-explained

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1051542/audyssey-dynamic-volume-versus-thx-loudness-plus/0_100

don't take this the wrong way but I'd have to disagree with your statement. just because a company uses a different technology to accomplish the same thing doesn't mean it's inferior or won't do the job. unless someone has directly compared audyssey's feature with THX loudness plus + DRC + ALC and found audyssey's "better" for them , you've made a premature conclusion. even if someone did prefer audyssey or dolby, someone else would prefer the opposite. like one of the blogger on the Home Theater Mag article.

no offense, but people on this forum automatically assume that just because a feature comes from Audyssey, it has to be better & get others to drink the kool-aid before that person has the chance to decide with a hands-on demo. Pardon my french but that's BS.

Let me ask: have you personally compared them at a dealer? have you read how THX Loudness Plus works? you're already criticizing Pioneer for not having something when you don't know how well Pioneer's tools work for a midnight mode. you're just making an assumption theirs is not as good because it's not the one you're familiar with.

If you really do think you can't live without Audyssey's or Dolby's approach, don't condemn Pioneer for not having it, just go buy a Denon or Onkyo and be done with it wink.gif

I'm no stranger to critiquing Pioneer trust me, but in this case, if you haven't tried their tools then you have no reason to complain. Go demo one, decide for yourself and make appropriate buying decision. I can respect that if you compare them and decide you like another "tool" better, that's your prerogative.

it's a non-issue for me. I turn THX Loudness Plus on by default because it makes sense to. I have tried ALC. but I prefer to keep DRC off because I don't want dynamic range between loud & soft screwed with. If you bother to read about Loudness Plus, you'll probably find that it works to accomplish the same thing as the other 2 competitive technologies, maybe not the same way but the real world end result is probably going to be indistinguishable to many (maybe most) owners.

read the links I attached, especially the 1st 2 wink.gif Home Theater Mag has attempted to compare what each one does.
Edited by ss9001 - 12/29/12 at 3:40pm
post #693 of 1835
Greetings Everyone. I purchased the SC-68 about ten days ago, and this forum has been quite helpful and informative with several minor problems I've had setting up my system.

Now I am having trouble with the MULTI-ZONE setup.

I have a 5.1 speaker setup (B&W 600 series, only 1 subwoofer). I setup the system per the 5.2 channel surround system & ZONE2/ZONE3 connection (Multi Zone) as shown on pages 20 & 27 of the owner's manual - and ran the Full Auto MCACC setup. At this time I am only wired for one sub-zone (2 channel audio only, no video) Zone 2 with speaker wires connected to the 'Surround Back [A]' terminals of the SC-68 to a pair of speakers in another room (Zone 2). There is nothing connected to Zone 3 (Front Wide/).

The problem is when I turn on power to Zone 2 (or Zone 3 for that matter) there is no sound - nothing despite trying different input sources and turning up the volume. As a test, I ran a speaker setup of the 7.1 channel surround system & Speaker B connection as shown on pages 19 and 24 of the manual and the SC-68 produced test tones to the speakers I setup in 'Zone 2', in other words the speakers wired to 'Surround Back [A]' of the SC-68 produce sound, but not when in the setting for MULTI-ZONE and 5.1. Per pages 37-38 of the manual "Either the surround back or the front wide speaker terminals can be used as the speaker terminals for ZONE 2." (page 38).

I suspect I am missing something obvious, but cannot figure it out. Any input or insight to this matter is greatly appreciated.

Scott
post #694 of 1835
Thread Starter 
^^
I don't have time now to delve into the details you posted but let's start with this...

there's a difference between Multizones and B Speakers. do you have a 2nd receiver in the other room connected with analog cables to the SC-68 & speakers connected to the 2nd receiver or do you have a 2nd set of speakers connected to the B terminals on the SC-68? answer that and we can go from there.
post #695 of 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

^^
I don't have time now to delve into the details you posted but let's start with this...
there's a difference between Multizones and B Speakers. do you have a 2nd receiver in the other room connected with analog cables to the SC-68 & speakers connected to the 2nd receiver or do you have a 2nd set of speakers connected to the B terminals on the SC-68? answer that and we can go from there.

I am trying to setup MULTI-ZONE with 5.1 (5.2 channel surround system & ZONE2/ZONE3 connection (Multi Zone) as shown on pages 20 & 27 of the owner's manual).


I only mentioned the Speaker B as part of the 7.1 channel surround system & Speaker B connection to test if my SC-68 put sound out to the speakers in the other room - it does, but not in 5.1 + Z2/Z3 speaker setup.

I do not have a receiver in the other room. I have speaker wire from the 'Surround Back [A]' speaker terminal of the SC-68 to two speakers in the other room (just a 2 channel setup to play audio only in Zone 2). For now I have no speaker connections from FrontWide/'B' (which would be Zone 3 in the 5.1 + Zone2/Zone3 setup). There are no audio/video analog connections - just speaker wire to the 'Zone 2' speakers in the other room. Pages 37-38 appear to state this is a possible setup.


What I ultimately want is 5.1 in my main HT room with MULTI-ZONE capability in the other room (Zone 2) - But when I setup 5.1 + Zone 2/Zone 3 there is nothing out of the 'Zone 2' speakers in the other room.

Sorry for the wordy and redundant posts - just trying to explain what I am after.

Thanks.

Scott
post #696 of 1835
Hi All,

After a few years, I am preparing to enter the age of HDMI and replace my Denon 3805 receiver, and probably my front Monitor Audio 705 PMCs.

My short list for speakers includes B & W 804D, 803D, Dynaudio Focus 340, and Dali Mentor 8.

Initially, after reviewing things, I was leaning toward getting an Arcam AVR600. It is difficult to find one in my area to audition, but it was getting great reviews, especially for music. But in the forums here at AVS, the Arcam thread is mainly a list of complaints and product defects. I don't mind spending extra money if I think there is value there, but the more I researched, the less convinced I have become.

Now I am leaning toward the SC-68.

Reading this thread has been great. Incredibly, impressively, knowledgeable folks. Perhaps the thing that has swayed me as much as anything has been the experience and information from sc9001 (thanks!). It was very encouraging to read about his moving from his previous Pioneer monster amplifier to the SC-68, and successfully run large, power hungry speakers.

So, I have two questions. I know what the answers would be on the speaker forums, so I will ask here:

1. Would the SC-68 handle these speakers adequately? I know I could always run a 2-channel amp next to the SC-68, if need be.

2. Any opinions on these speakers? I've listened to each of them, but never side-by-side (I miss the days when dealers had large inventories of multiple manufacturers).

Thanks so much
post #697 of 1835
Has anyone in Neo X mode had there speakers switch from Wide to Height automatically like it says in the manual?
post #698 of 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

http://www.thx.com/consumer/thx-technology/thx-loudness-plus/
http://www.hometheater.com/content/dueling-loudness-corrections-explained
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1051542/audyssey-dynamic-volume-versus-thx-loudness-plus/0_100
don't take this the wrong way but I'd have to disagree with your statement. just because a company uses a different technology to accomplish the same thing doesn't mean it's inferior or won't do the job. unless someone has directly compared audyssey's feature with THX loudness plus + DRC + ALC and found audyssey's "better" for them , you've made a premature conclusion. even if someone did prefer audyssey or dolby, someone else would prefer the opposite. like one of the blogger on the Home Theater Mag article.
no offense, but people on this forum automatically assume that just because a feature comes from Audyssey, it has to be better & get others to drink the kool-aid before that person has the chance to decide with a hands-on demo. Pardon my french but that's BS.
Let me ask: have you personally compared them at a dealer? have you read how THX Loudness Plus works? you're already criticizing Pioneer for not having something when you don't know how well Pioneer's tools work for a midnight mode. you're just making an assumption theirs is not as good because it's not the one you're familiar with.
If you really do think you can't live without Audyssey's or Dolby's approach, don't condemn Pioneer for not having it, just go buy a Denon or Onkyo and be done with it wink.gif
I'm no stranger to critiquing Pioneer trust me, but in this case, if you haven't tried their tools then you have no reason to complain. Go demo one, decide for yourself and make appropriate buying decision. I can respect that if you compare them and decide you like another "tool" better, that's your prerogative.
it's a non-issue for me. I turn THX Loudness Plus on by default because it makes sense to. I have tried ALC. but I prefer to keep DRC off because I don't want dynamic range between loud & soft screwed with. If you bother to read about Loudness Plus, you'll probably find that it works to accomplish the same thing as the other 2 competitive technologies, maybe not the same way but the real world end result is probably going to be indistinguishable to many (maybe most) owners.
read the links I attached, especially the 1st 2 wink.gif Home Theater Mag has attempted to compare what each one does.

ss9001, perhaps you misread my post otherwise I don't see why you went through the trouble of highlighting comparisons between THX Loudness Plus and Dynamic EQ since the concern I raised was about whether there is a feature equivalent to Dynamic Volume. I'm quite familiar with both Dynamic EQ and THX Loudness Plus as I've had both on my Onkyo 876 for over 4 years. In case your interested, I think both are effective so the absence of one or the other is not a deal-breaker for me.

I was inquiring about whether there is a feature comparable to Dynamic Volume or Dolby Volume as I find such a feature very useful and I suspect many others with small children or those living in a condo setting also would find such a feature useful. I did not jump to any conclusion or claim that those two technologies work better than any proprietary Pioneer technology. Rather, I was inquiring whether Pioneer has a competing technology. If you noticed, FilmMixer chimed in and noted that Pioneer does not have a competing technology. Although I did see ALC in the product manual I have not seen any type of description either in the manual or elsewhere online of what it does, how it works, and whether it can be applied to all source material - and it doesn't appear that you have access to such description either so I fail to see the need for the negative tone of your response. Also, I wouldn't include DRC as a viable alternative for low volume listening as every application of DRC I have ever heard completely cripples the soundtrack. In any case, I'll be trying out the AVR for myself soon enough as I expect the unit to arrive as early as tomorrow.
Edited by EVT - 12/30/12 at 8:41pm
post #699 of 1835
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EVT View Post

ss9001, perhaps you misread my post...Although I did see ALC in the product manual I have not seen any type of description either in the manual or elsewhere online of what it does, how it works, and whether it can be applied to all source material...Also, I wouldn't include DRC as a viable alternative for low volume listening as every application of DRC I have ever heard completely cripples the soundtrack...I'll be trying out the AVR for myself soon enough as I expect the unit to arrive as early as tomorrow.

I probably did, sorry.

let me add some remarks to the comments which I bolded -

1. there's actually a description in the manual wink.gif but you are correct, it's not clear what does it do exactly or how it works. I concur completely. And IMO, Pioneer deserves some criticism for not providing more information on ALC. IMO, if a company is going to offer a proprietary form of processing, they should not leave it up to the user to guess what the marketing-speak means. Pioneer is not unique in this, I've seen rotten, garble-gook descriptions in Sony manuals, for example, on their once $3000 flagship SACD/CD player (which I own) and many other companies are guilty. The best descriptions I've ever read for proprietary processing modes are in Lexicon & Anthem manuals wink.gif

let me also add that ALC is just like any other surround processing; it can added to any and all sources. you just select it instead of Auto Surround, Dolby PLIIx, etc My best "guess" from reading Dolby Volume & Audyssey Dynamic Volume descriptions is that ALC *could* be Pioneer's answer. I have used it, turned the volume way down and wasn't sure what I was supposed to hear...what I did hear was just the volume turned down wink.gif again, guessing....but I think it may try to level channel output so surround channels can still be heard when vol is decreased.

2. DRC, I've tried DRC myself years ago because my wife is hearing impaired and I wanted to make sure center dialog doesn't get lost during loud music passages & sound effects. While I wouldn't say it "cripples" the sound to use your word, I ended up not using it because I didn't want to adulterate what I paid to get with lossless audio.

However, it may interest you that Audyssey also describes their DV as a form of compression.
I quote from Audyssey's web site:

"Dynamic Volume allows listeners to control the dynamic range of a program – that means no matter the environment or material, you always hear everything at an enjoyable level"

Just browsing their white paper, Dolby Volume seems to be the more technically advanced between Audyssey & Dolby. And to me, just browsing their tech paper, it seems to me to be a hybrid of equalization, level changes, and dynamic range = maybe something like a gentle DRC + Loudness Plus approach? Someone like Roger Dressler probably knows far more how it works than any of us wink.gif and I'm sure there are threads in the forum where the experts have explained the differences.

3. "try it out" I completely agree!! smile.gif

When you get it setup, please, please post your observations, comparisons. You are in a good position as compared to me, because you have used the others, while I only have experience with Audyssey in the SVS EQ1 sub equalizer, with its equivalent of Multi32XT just for subs. I have not compared the other Audyssey technologies since I've not owned Denon or Onkyo gear.

This thread needs more participation from experienced, knowledgeable owners like you to help out with issues & questions that some of us, including me, don't know, have experience with or don't use. I can only do so much here redface.gif Like multizone...I have tried the HDMI zone 4 just to learn what it does but I don't use nor will use the AVR for multizones, so it's hard for me to answer every nuanced question that comes up; in these cases, I go by what the manual says...

Thanks for not taking offense, btw. I've been responding to a number of really basic connection / function posts & am amazed at some of the ones lately. where new owners don't bother to read and then cry for help when the answer is staring them in the face on page x if they only bothered to look! one person couldn't figure out that the remote button labeled Menu was the one he needed to use to see...the menu eek.gif that one takes the cake for mindlessness rolleyes.gif

are Americans turning into mindless zombies that need to be spoon-fed? I wonder...

And lately, I felt like I've been one of the few carrying the ball in this & other Pio threads. So I've been a little short or curt in my replies...I apologize for that redface.gif

Please keep posting when you get the AVR setup smile.gif
Edited by ss9001 - 12/31/12 at 6:23am
post #700 of 1835
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wretnuh View Post

1. Would the SC-68 handle these speakers adequately? I know I could always run a 2-channel amp next to the SC-68, if need be. 2. Any opinions on these speakers? I've listened to each of them, but never side-by-side (I miss the days when dealers had large inventories of multiple manufacturers).Thanks so much

thanks for the compliment smile.gif I'm only one of many current & ex Pioneer SC owners who've contributed for years in the Pioneer threads.

I can't address your question directly, since I've never pursued these 3 speaker brands, other than a casual listen of B&W's at a local HT dealer. I'm a dyed-in-the-wool Magnepan owner for 30+ yrs so haven't seriously demo'd different speaker brands since 1993 when I listened to Soundlab & Martin Logan electrostats wink.gif that said, I have also listened to various DefTech's over the years, Vandersteens & Martin Logan Motions among others but had no serious intention of replacing my last iteration of Maggies wink.gif I did buy the M-L Motion 4 mini-bookshelves for uses as height speakers, since Magnepan really doesn't have a speaker model that's suitable for heights.

and yes, if you find let's say the 804's need a little more juice, you can add a high powered 2 ch amp. in fact, that's what I've done since about 2003, use a 600 wpc-8ohm amp for the fronts, and the receiver for all the rest. however, as you noted, I have run all of them from the Ice amp SC-09TX and the new class D amps in the SC-68 when I first got it. I had no obvious problems with either one, even the lower powered SC-68 @ some higher volumes biggrin.gif

just based on the specs for the speakers you mention, I *think* the SC-68 would be OK, especially if you have a sub. all are 8 or 6 ohm rated, have ~90 dB efficiency and power ratings that the SC-68 would be OK with. the only consideration is if the 68 by itself could handle a room full of them, a 5.1/7/1 system. and again, you could always add the amp for the fronts if needed. so, the SC-68 should be an acceptable fit. hopefully, you can demo and your dealer has a return policy if you're not satisfied with the results in your home. And if you don't use one, I'd recommend you add a sub to your list for heavy-duty home theater use smile.gif even a hi 30 hz speaker can't do justice to many movie tracks wink.gif
post #701 of 1835
Steve

Thanks for answering. I appreciate it.

I have a Velodyne HGS 10" sub that I got about five years ago. I never have liked it very much, probably because I didn't set it up properly (seems to "kick in" obviously, and too "boomy"). I will do better when I set things up this time. I have a couple of B & W in-wall speakers for my rears. I run a zone 2 in the kitchen, and may use a zone three for a different living area in the future (maybe run cable to my Monitor Audio speakers there).

From everything I have been reading, it sure seems like the SC-67/68 would be a reasonable way to go. It sounds like the processing is good, so it would be fairly easy to up the amplification in the future if need be. But, since my wife doesn't like to run things very loud (and even I don't like to get up above 100dB), we would probably be fine.

Anybody in this forum listened to the Arcam AVR600?

Tom
post #702 of 1835
Well I know what the problem is with my Zone2/Zone3 playback issue (posts #693 & 695) - Zone2/Zone3 will NOT playback a digital source - only analog sources will play back in Zones 2&3 - it's right in the manual, Page 37, which I had read many times, but obviously missed. This is really disappointing. What is the point of MULTI-ZONE capabilities if it won't do digital output?!? My Denon AVR-3808CI which the SC-68 replaced - played digital sources in Zones 2 & 3 - was thinking of packing up the SC-68 and exchanging it for the Denon AVR-4520CI, but that apparently has the same limitation in MULTI-ZONE playback, analog only (per the sales rep at Denon, 885-MyDenon). Rats!
post #703 of 1835
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwv872 View Post

was thinking of packing up the SC-68 and exchanging it for the Denon AVR-4520CI, but that apparently has the same limitation in MULTI-ZONE playback, analog only

sorry to disappoint but

its been that way for all these years with every company's receivers. not until this year's models with an independent HDMI - Zone 4 output, all companies have done multizone the same way, analog only, & no digital connections will work. repeat - nobody's receivers have had digital I/O switching capability. not until this summer with HDMI and Pioneer was the 1st with the SC-68.

glad you were able to figure it out though smile.gif

there are external switchers you can get from places like monoprice & hdtvsupply that are potential fixes for multizone digital audio as well as HDMI sourcing, like a matrix switcher.

here's one example
http://www.hdtvsupply.com/sb-5605.html#axzz2Geyc3M1t

if you can find a used Zektor component video switch like the HDS4.1 or HDS4.2, it could switch component video, composite video, analog 2ch and optical/coax digital audio. even better was their MAS7.1 switcher that was for 7.1 analog audio, opt/coax dig, and included 3 HDMI ports, but a whole lot harder to find used. these are all discontinued but pop up on ebay. also, companies like ShinyBow make suitable alternatives....check HDTVSupply, Monoprice & Ram Electronics for HDMI and digital audio matrix switchers. there's gobs of styles, features and price ranges to choose from.

if you had another HDMI receiver laying around, you could use the HDMI Zone 4 feature for 1 of your 2 zones...
Edited by ss9001 - 12/31/12 at 11:49am
post #704 of 1835
I posted a question regarding the differences between the 67 and 68, post 690, a few days ago that I hope wasn't seen as being too general of a question. I've read some info about each and have come to a basic understanding that they, SC 67 and SC 68, are both pretty close as far as capability. I am not looking for a long detailed response. I was just looking for some feedback to see if I was missing something significant. I needed a receiver that could deliver different audio and video sources to multiple zones simultaneously while still maintaining a good 5.1 performance in the media room. The price differences between the two are fairly significant. Is there a feature that the 68 has that I am not recognizing? Thanks in advance for your input.
md
post #705 of 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwv872 View Post

Well I know what the problem is with my Zone2/Zone3 playback issue (posts #693 & 695) - Zone2/Zone3 will NOT playback a digital source - only analog sources will play back in Zones 2&3 - it's right in the manual, Page 37, which I had read many times, but obviously missed. This is really disappointing. What is the point of MULTI-ZONE capabilities if it won't do digital output?!? My Denon AVR-3808CI which the SC-68 replaced - played digital sources in Zones 2 & 3 - was thinking of packing up the SC-68 and exchanging it for the Denon AVR-4520CI, but that apparently has the same limitation in MULTI-ZONE playback, analog only (per the sales rep at Denon, 885-MyDenon). Rats!

I also replaced a 3808CI with an SC-67. Like SS9001 says, it had the same limitation just like all AVRs - only analog sources to zones 2/3. The independent HDMI zone 4 is very very nice, though. I'm probably one of the few people to actually use all 4 zones.
post #706 of 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

I probably did, sorry.
let me add some remarks to the comments which I bolded -
1. there's actually a description in the manual wink.gif but you are correct, it's not clear what does it do exactly or how it works. I concur completely. And IMO, Pioneer deserves some criticism for not providing more information on ALC. IMO, if a company is going to offer a proprietary form of processing, they should not leave it up to the user to guess what the marketing-speak means. Pioneer is not unique in this, I've seen rotten, garble-gook descriptions in Sony manuals, for example, on their once $3000 flagship SACD/CD player (which I own) and many other companies are guilty. The best descriptions I've ever read for proprietary processing modes are in Lexicon & Anthem manuals wink.gif
let me also add that ALC is just like any other surround processing; it can added to any and all sources. you just select it instead of Auto Surround, Dolby PLIIx, etc My best "guess" from reading Dolby Volume & Audyssey Dynamic Volume descriptions is that ALC *could* be Pioneer's answer. I have used it, turned the volume way down and wasn't sure what I was supposed to hear...what I did hear was just the volume turned down wink.gif again, guessing....but I think it may try to level channel output so surround channels can still be heard when vol is decreased.
2. DRC, I've tried DRC myself years ago because my wife is hearing impaired and I wanted to make sure center dialog doesn't get lost during loud music passages & sound effects. While I wouldn't say it "cripples" the sound to use your word, I ended up not using it because I didn't want to adulterate what I paid to get with lossless audio.
However, it may interest you that Audyssey also describes their DV as a form of compression.
I quote from Audyssey's web site:
"Dynamic Volume allows listeners to control the dynamic range of a program – that means no matter the environment or material, you always hear everything at an enjoyable level"
Just browsing their white paper, Dolby Volume seems to be the more technically advanced between Audyssey & Dolby. And to me, just browsing their tech paper, it seems to me to be a hybrid of equalization, level changes, and dynamic range = maybe something like a gentle DRC + Loudness Plus approach? Someone like Roger Dressler probably knows far more how it works than any of us wink.gif and I'm sure there are threads in the forum where the experts have explained the differences.
3. "try it out" I completely agree!! smile.gif
When you get it setup, please, please post your observations, comparisons. You are in a good position as compared to me, because you have used the others, while I only have experience with Audyssey in the SVS EQ1 sub equalizer, with its equivalent of Multi32XT just for subs. I have not compared the other Audyssey technologies since I've not owned Denon or Onkyo gear.
This thread needs more participation from experienced, knowledgeable owners like you to help out with issues & questions that some of us, including me, don't know, have experience with or don't use. I can only do so much here redface.gif Like multizone...I have tried the HDMI zone 4 just to learn what it does but I don't use nor will use the AVR for multizones, so it's hard for me to answer every nuanced question that comes up; in these cases, I go by what the manual says...
Thanks for not taking offense, btw. I've been responding to a number of really basic connection / function posts & am amazed at some of the ones lately. where new owners don't bother to read and then cry for help when the answer is staring them in the face on page x if they only bothered to look! one person couldn't figure out that the remote button labeled Menu was the one he needed to use to see...the menu eek.gif that one takes the cake for mindlessness rolleyes.gif
are Americans turning into mindless zombies that need to be spoon-fed? I wonder...
And lately, I felt like I've been one of the few carrying the ball in this & other Pio threads. So I've been a little short or curt in my replies...I apologize for that redface.gif
Please keep posting when you get the AVR setup smile.gif

No problem, no offence taken. I'll be happy to report back when things are setup. However, it seems that all my Onkyo 876 needed to start working properly again was for me to order a new AVR so I'll have to think over what I'm going to do if the decoding bugs I've been having have been permanently sorted out.

I'm very happy with the price I got the SC-65 for so I may just sell the 876 instead of returning the SC-65, assuming the 876 continues to function correctly - I have 30 days to decide so that should be plenty of time to evaluate.
post #707 of 1835
ss9001 and jbwitt:

Thank you for your input.

Steve, appreciate the info on HDMI switches and the like, for now I dug out a digital to analog convertor I have and fed it into the analog CD input source - has done the trick for now allowing output of music to the speakers in Zone 2 - will look at your recommendations to refine the system.

Now that that's solve - how long of an HDMI cable can one use? My main HT setup (A/V Receiver, TV, etc.) is 50 to 100 feet away by the time I run the cable to other rooms/Zones.

jbwitt (or anyone for that matter), how do you have your Zone 4 setup - to a receiver/amp?, a TV? and how far is the Zone 4 from your SC-67? Again thanks for all the useful info on this thread.

Scott
post #708 of 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyd56 View Post

I posted a question regarding the differences between the 67 and 68, post 690, a few days ago that I hope wasn't seen as being too general of a question. I've read some info about each and have come to a basic understanding that they, SC 67 and SC 68, are both pretty close as far as capability. I am not looking for a long detailed response. I was just looking for some feedback to see if I was missing something significant. I needed a receiver that could deliver different audio and video sources to multiple zones simultaneously while still maintaining a good 5.1 performance in the media room. The price differences between the two are fairly significant. Is there a feature that the 68 has that I am not recognizing? Thanks in advance for your input.
md

Hi Marty!

Did you happen to view this Post regarding the differences between the models? It's a good read and may help you out in choosing the right model AVR for your needs, wants & desires. biggrin.gifsmile.gif
post #709 of 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwv872 View Post

ss9001 and jbwitt:
Thank you for your input.
Steve, appreciate the info on HDMI switches and the like, for now I dug out a digital to analog convertor I have and fed it into the analog CD input source - has done the trick for now allowing output of music to the speakers in Zone 2 - will look at your recommendations to refine the system.
Now that that's solve - how long of an HDMI cable can one use? My main HT setup (A/V Receiver, TV, etc.) is 50 to 100 feet away by the time I run the cable to other rooms/Zones.
jbwitt (or anyone for that matter), how do you have your Zone 4 setup - to a receiver/amp?, a TV? and how far is the Zone 4 from your SC-67? Again thanks for all the useful info on this thread.
Scott

I think the HDMI spec is limited to 45'. However, I gave this cable a shot:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005LJQMOS/ref=oh_details_o06_s00_i00

and it worked. I've only tested it by running it to a TV in another room, but I plan to connect it to the old 3808CI once I get it repaired.
post #710 of 1835
Thread Starter 
^^
on long HDMI lengths. I highly recommend Blue Jeans Cable Series 1 high speed. It has worked perfectly for me at 50 ft plus another 6 ft of Series 2 "normal" cable from the connection wall plate to the receiver plus another 6 ft of their Series 2 from the players to the receiver. not only does this entire cable chain work but I get 1080p at the deep color spec of 36 bits.

even though Blue Jeans actually certifies Series 1 at 25 ft for "high speed" data rates and 45 ft for "normal", they have documented cases where it has worked > 100ft. without the need for signal boosters/signal equalization. My own experience supports that this is a very high quality cable. Every HDMI cable I own is Blue Jeans & I will buy no other brand - why mess around with success wink.gif

many members have used cables from Monoprice and other suppliers and had good success with long lengths as well.
post #711 of 1835
jbwitt,

Many are using the new Monoprice RedMere Technology cables for longer runs with great success.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10255
post #712 of 1835
love those Monoprice RedMere
post #713 of 1835
Has anyone with the SC-67 put there system with FH/FW mode on and actually had they're speakers alternate between height and wide? I asked a few others and they said it just stayed in the heights. Mine does the same thing. So has anyone elses receiver alternated?
post #714 of 1835
Hello,
I was wondering if anyone has an opinion on the USB-DAC in the SC-68?

I have been playing a selection of ripped CD's (16/44.1) and 24/96 tracks, both are in lossless FLAC Format. The CD's were ripped to lossless FLAC using dbpoweramp cdripper. For playback I am using Foobar2000 on a 32bit Windows XP Pro SP3 machine.

Prior to purchasing the SC-68 I had been using a Mapleshade USB-to-S/PDIF adapter. This is a modded HiFace adapter (the original HiFace 'One', not the 'Two' which came out recently).

I was not particularly enjoying the sound from the USB-DAC so I decided to compare against my Mapleshade adapter (connected via the Coax1 input of the SC-68).

To my ears, the Mapleshade sounds far better. For example, female voices are much clearer and when the music gets very 'busy' the Mapleshade seems to be able to keep the soundstage much tighter.

Sorry if my terminology is not proper, but hopefully those reading this will know what I am trying to describe.

Anyway, I decided to check if I had configured Foobar to use the USB-DAC optimally. I made sure that I had installed the Pioneer driver from the AVNavigator cd. In Foobar I selected 'DS: Pioneer USB Device'.

I was surprised to only see DS being offered as this means it is using Direct Sound. I was hoping that this being a high-end device from Pioneer that they would have chosen to use kernel streaming, i.e. ASIO. Note, before I purchased the SC-68 I asked Pioneer of they were using ASIO but could not get an answer on this.

I realized that I was not comparing apples to apples as I had always used ASIO4ALL with my Mapleshade adapter, so I decided to set up the Pioneer USB-DAC to also use ASIO4ALL. Unfortunately this has not helped as the USB-DAC still sounds inferior to the Mapleshade adapter.

Is anyone else having issues with the USB-DAC or am I the only one to have noticed this?
post #715 of 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbear View Post

Hello,
I was wondering if anyone has an opinion on the USB-DAC in the SC-68?

I should spend more time practicing using the 'search thread' feature for the forums as I realize now that in August there were a few posts discussing this, in particular ss9001's very detailed report on 8/11/12. Sorry to have missed that

Steve,
I see in your post that you used WMP11 and itunes and I see in the SC-67/68 manual a note to say that Media Player must be installed on the PC in order for the USB-DAC to work. I have Media Player installed but would prefer to use Foobar2000 and are wondering if it is essential to use Media Player?

The reason I started using Foobar2000 many months ago is that I needed something which supported ASIO and could produce bit perfect playback. Since then I have grown to love Foobar, have customized the skin to work well with my old 46inch plasma TV and like it even more after coming across TouchRemote, which allows me to control Foobar from my iPad using Apples Remote app.

Note, my audio files are all lossless FLAC and I don't know if Media Player can handle these. I am not sure iTunes can either (Apple have their 'Apple Lossless' format). I am trying to get some answers from the Pioneer support folks but that just seems to be a black hole at the moment.

I suppose I shouldn't get too hung up about the USB-DAC performance as I do at least have my Mapleshade adapter working well with the SC-68. However, from reading your post it is clear that you are getting good quality sound so I wonder if something is wrong with my setup or if my SC-68 has some sort of fault.

ADDING some information on tracks used for listening tests..

Marta Gomez - Lucia - from HD Tracks sampler (Format: 24/96 FLAC)
K D Lang - Je Fais La Planche - ripped from Watershed CD (Format: 16/44.1 FLAC)
K D Lang - Coming Home - also ripped from Watershed CD (same format as above)
Explorers - Muse - from the album The 2nd Law (24/96 FLAC)

Watershed CD was ripped using dbpoweramp cdripper using lossless FLAC setting

The first three tracks feature female vocals, the last has male vocals and is perhaps the most intriguing. With the Explorers track the singer ( Matthew Bellamy) has a way of singing into the mic such that you hear every intake of breath, it is very exaggerated. The Mapleshade adapter has no issue reproducing this, but with the USB-DAC the sound of the sharp intake of breath gets muddled up with the vocal which follow. Basically it all gets muddled up together and ends up sounding a mess.

For some music types the USB-DAC sounds fine but for vocals which have a 'breath-y' quality, it really struggles.

BTW, I am using Pure Direct setting on the SC-68 for all my listening tests
Edited by bbear - 1/3/13 at 8:26pm
post #716 of 1835
^^^
bbear, you don't have to use Media Player. With USB-DAC, whatever you play on your PC, regardless of the PC application you choose to use, will play on sc-68 as long as you direct your playback device to USB-DAC. I am not in front of my PC, but you would right click the speaker icon on the lower right of the Windows and select Playback Devices and you should see the USC-DAC device for sc-68. I use Windows 7 and I actually don't need to manually select my playback device. Windows 7 would automatiaclly switch it for me when I make the USB connection. I connect the USB cable first between my PC and sc-68, and then I select USB-DAC on sc-68 and once Windows detects the connection it automatically switch playback device to sc-68.
post #717 of 1835
Hi all,

I have an Elite 72TXV and am thinking about moving to the newer SC-67. Do you guys think this would be a noticeable improvement?

In particular i use my laptop to play ripped CD's in WAV format via HDMI to my Elite. With the SC-67 being 192/32 bit - would this be an audible improvement for the ripped CD's?

thanks for the help.
post #718 of 1835
Soniky wrote
Quote:
bbear, you don't have to use Media Player. With USB-DAC, whatever you play on your PC, regardless of the PC application you choose to use, will play on sc-68 as long as you direct your playback device to USB-DAC. I am not in front of my PC, but you would right click the speaker icon on the lower right of the Windows and select Playback Devices and you should see the USC-DAC device for sc-68. I use Windows 7 and I actually don't need to manually select my playback device. Windows 7 would automatiaclly switch it for me when I make the USB connection. I connect the USB cable first between my PC and sc-68, and then I select USB-DAC on sc-68 and once Windows detects the connection it automatically switch playback device to sc-68.


Soniky,

I called Pioneer today for the same reason to confirm if the SC-68 USB DAC can play music from other applications on PC other than using Windows Media Player and was told you have to use media player 11 or 12. I guess they really don't know. As long as you install the pioneer driver it should work. I currently use Steinberg Wavelab and Cubase (w/Asio driver) with a Waveterminal 192x audio card and would love to send audio to the USB DAC on the SC-68 and compare sound. I have a Windows XP PC so not sure if this is supported by the pioneer driver but pioneer support told me as long as you have WMP 11 or 12 on your PC it doesn't make a difference if it's XP, Vista or 7. Since they don't really know if it works with other applications they may not know what OS's it supports

Can anybody confim any of this because if the USB DAC on the SC-68 doesn't work with Wavelab or Cubase I will just get the SC-67. They are almost identical in features besides the $500+ price difference

Thanks any help is appreciated
post #719 of 1835
Well, I am a proud owner of a Pioneer Elite SC-67! Huge thanks to ss9001 and iceman81 for whom I had some PM questions for that helped immensely with regards to pricing questions. Went out and then got a good deal from an authorized dealer.

Anway, I have to say, I am loving this thing so far. I am going from a Pio VSX-D811S (part of a HTiB circa 2003) to now a SC-67 and wow, what a difference! From a visual stand point, the AVR is quite a looker. I don't think the online photos do it justice. Very classic design, sturdy!

The sound right away is great! Amazing seperation and cohesion but I felt the top end was a bit bright. Almost immediately I adjusted the X-curve. In fact I adjusted it as far as it would go (-3). That seemed to help a lot.

I did run the full auto MCACC. It saw my 5.1 Aperion 6T/5C/5B (12D) set up as all large. I changed the 5C and 5B to small but am debating on what to do with the 6T. I do Music/Movies 50/50 on my rig. My initial thought was to keep the 6T as large (SW at plus) but the more I read on here the more it seems people recommend all small with 80 Xover.

(complete random question, how can the system have an option of all small and still have the SW be able to use the "plus" option. Or does it just treat that as "yes"?)

I was mostly happy with my inital MCACC run (and my center channel was AMAZING!) but I think I am missing some mid/low end thump. I had my sub volume turned up a bit initially for the first MCACC run and now I am thinking I should have had it leveled out? Should I leave the X-curve at 0 before the MCACC and then adjust after?

Should I run "Full Auto" first, re-set the speakers to all small and then run regular "Auto" overtop of it? I don't mind doing some adjusting here or there but some of the technical aspects (eq etc) are a bit over my head.

Any other suggestions?

Worth noting also, my preceived lack of bass might be in my own mind as my previous system didn't have any of these calibrations and hence the bass was booming and thick and perhaps the lack of "boom" is more of a result in a system that is finely tuned and I never knew what that sounded like until now. LOL Still I am looking to add a little more punch.

I have scoured the MCACC thread on AVS but if anyone has any recommendations I would love to hear them.
post #720 of 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by Escape View Post

Soniky wrote
Soniky,
I called Pioneer today for the same reason to confirm if the SC-68 USB DAC can play music from other applications on PC other than using Windows Media Player and was told you have to use media player 11 or 12. I guess they really don't know. As long as you install the pioneer driver it should work. I currently use Steinberg Wavelab and Cubase (w/Asio driver) with a Waveterminal 192x audio card and would love to send audio to the USB DAC on the SC-68 and compare sound. I have a Windows XP PC so not sure if this is supported by the pioneer driver but pioneer support told me as long as you have WMP 11 or 12 on your PC it doesn't make a difference if it's XP, Vista or 7. Since they don't really know if it works with other applications they may not know what OS's it supports
Can anybody confim any of this because if the USB DAC on the SC-68 doesn't work with Wavelab or Cubase I will just get the SC-67. They are almost identical in features besides the $500+ price difference
Thanks any help is appreciated

Thanks Soniky and Escape for the information. I have no problem with my computer recognizing the USB-DAC (well, not after I discovered you have to set the SC-69 to USB-DAC input before I could install the driver on my PC!)

The SC-68 'works' with Foobar2000, either with the audio device 'DS: Pioneer USB Device' selected in Foobar, or if I use ASIO4ALL and configure that to be used by Foobar. The sound which I get is the same, or at least my ears cant tell the difference.

The audio is perfectly glitch-less, but sounds 'digital' and often 'confused' when the music gets 'busy'. My Mapleshade adapter sounds much better, so I just wonder if there is something wrong with my particular SC-68.

Pioneer made such a fanfare about the USB-DAC when they were rolling it out that my hopes were high that it would sound better, or at least as good as my Mapleshade adapter. This has not been my experience, unfortunately. I would not have paid the extra for the SC-68 if I had known.

I am still hopeful that Pioneer can sort this, maybe a driver update is needed, possibly so that it is supported under ASIO. I have no idea if the USB transfer is the issue, clock jitter or some other problem, but I hope that Pioneer are listening and can do something to improve it.

My SC-68 was bought in a pre-Boxing Day sale and was 'final sale' so I wont be able to exchange it for a SC-67

I am still trying to get hold of someone at Pioneer. but I suspect they will just tell me to use Media Player. I will definitely have a go at this, but will probably have to convert my FLAC files to WAV first
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