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Official Pioneer SC-68/67 Thread - Page 27

post #781 of 1835
Pure Direct

I connected a mixer to sc-68 and discovered that there is a delay in the speaker output. For a couple of weeks I didn't know what's causing it and had tried difference mixers, mics and cables. Last night, it just occurred to me to turn off all the digital processing by selecting Pure Direct and that was it. It's a killer if you do any live performance or mixing.
post #782 of 1835
Went to Best Buy (Magnolia) today to demo their best AVR's that they had hooked up in their sound room

Elite SC-61 (They had a SC-63 & 65 but were not connected)
Denon AVR-3313ci
Yamaha RX-a1020

They did not have the SC-67/68, Denon 5020ci or the Yamaha RX-v3020 but I just wanted to get an idea how they sounded and worked.

I listend to all 3 AVRs with the B&W CM9 and Definitive Technology 8040st speakers in stereo mode. The Elite SC-61 sounded the most dynamic (fullest) compared to the other 2 receivers connected to either the B&W CM9 or the DT 8040st speakers. Not sure of the settings for each AVR (Bass/Trebbile and or EQ) slaes person did not have remotes to verify what they were but the elite SC-61 sounded better to me. Between the B&W CM9 and DT 8060st the B&W CM9 sounded the best to me with the DT8040st being a little more bass heavy and missing some upper detail.

What I want is either the Elite SC67 or 68 and will be pairing it with new Klipsch RF-7 II. I don't know how it will sound but was hoping to get an idea from todays demo. The uncertanity is how will the Klipsch RF-7 II sound with the Elite SC-67/68. I would like it to be similar to the B&W CM9s which to me sounded very dynamic and had the fullest sound

Anybody have any ideas how maybe the Elite SC-67/68 will sound with the Klipsch RF-7 II. I may go back to Best Buy tonight/tomorrow and try to see if I can demo the SC-61 at home for 24 hrs and/or see if I can return it if I don't like it
Edited by Escape - 1/11/13 at 1:34pm
post #783 of 1835
Can anybody tell me which hdmi input provides ARC connection., I can't seem to find a input stating ARC input like my panny does.
post #784 of 1835
the one that says control, its separate from all the other hdmi, it is hdmi "out" 2 I think, towards the middle; this is the arc one, ironically I have a panny and hooked them up, and it worked, and suddenly doesnt now, I dont know what happend
post #785 of 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by soniky View Post

There is a Pandora update to SC-68 recently not sure if you have applied it or not. If not, there were some discussions about it on this thread.

I have the 67, Ive applied the latest drivers. no help.
post #786 of 1835
Thanks symphx
post #787 of 1835
Anyone else have a loud pop out of speakers when ps3 changes sound modes? For example from PCM to stereo. I am using Hdmi audio.
post #788 of 1835
Hello,

After a lot of thought, I decided to purchse the SC68 today. Its being shipped and will be here on Friday.

It's the first step in upgrading my system which is old. At the time, it was High end(70 Inch Sony TV and Denon 5800).

Neither my current TV nor my receiver handle HDMI, but the TV does have DVI which I have been using.

So, here is my question....

Will the Pioneer HDMI output be able to connect to my DVI input on the TV? I know that there will be no sound through DVI, but will it work for video.

Currently, my cable box HDMI output works fine through DVI to the TV.

I'd appreciate knowing beause it impacts how I will set this up while I'm waiting to get the replacement TV.

Thanks
post #789 of 1835
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackVette View Post

Will the Pioneer HDMI output be able to connect to my DVI input on the TV? I know that there will be no sound through DVI, but will it work for video.

first, congratulations! biggrin.gif

second, this will depend on the cable length and your TV. what will be your cable run?

when I had my Pioneer RPTV with DVI setup in the "HT room", the Pioneer receiver I used then was also pre-HDMI so used an ext switcher and HDMI-DVI cables from all sources to the switcher. at 15 meters cable length to the TV, I got green speckles. at 12 meters cable length I got good video.

unfortunately, there is no hard & fast answer & hard to predict in advance. it should but you'll probably have to just set it up to find out smile.gif

hopefully, your cable run isn't as extreme as mine. on short runs, within normal DVI specs & < 15 ft, I would think it should work OK, because I have the same long runs using straight HDMI and have had no problems smile.gif but even if you did have a long run and encounter speckles or no picture at all, you still have options - there are excellent cables made to work at long lengths, some have signal boosters on them. you might want to check out Blue Jeans Cable for their HDMI-DVI cables. I had one that worked just fine for a cable box at 50 ft. to a Pioneer Kuro plasma.

let us know when you get it setup smile.gif
post #790 of 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

first, congratulations! biggrin.gif

second, this will depend on the cable length and your TV. what will be your cable run?

when I had my Pioneer RPTV with DVI setup in the "HT room", the Pioneer receiver I used then was also pre-HDMI so used an ext switcher and HDMI-DVI cables from all sources to the switcher. at 15 meters cable length to the TV, I got green speckles. at 12 meters cable length I got good video.

unfortunately, there is no hard & fast answer & hard to predict in advance. it should but you'll probably have to just set it up to find out smile.gif

hopefully, your cable run isn't as extreme as mine. on short runs, within normal DVI specs & < 15 ft, I would think it should work OK, because I have the same long runs using straight HDMI and have had no problems smile.gif but even if you did have a long run and encounter speckles or no picture at all, you still have options - there are excellent cables made to work at long lengths, some have signal boosters on them. you might want to check out Blue Jeans Cable for their HDMI-DVI cables. I had one that worked just fine for a cable box at 50 ft. to a Pioneer Kuro plasma.

let us know when you get it setup smile.gif

Thank you, and I should have first thanked everyone here..... I have been following every post in this thread for quite a while as I made my decision.

I already have an HDMI / DVI cable and the run is only about 2 meters.

I read in the manual a note about DVI and HDCP. My 70" Sony is old and would not have HDCP. I was hoping that with this receiver, I could get rid of all my component wires and audio cables and go HDMI into the receiver. Then go HDMI --> DVI to the TV. Boy, would that greatly simplify system.

If not, I'd have to keep it wired like today and wait until I got my new TV to redo the connections,

Again, thank you to all and I'm looking forward to getting my unit.
post #791 of 1835
Thread Starter 
^^
without HDCP, it's not likely to work. in fact, I can about guarantee it wink.gif

your Sony must really be old to use DVI without HDCP wink.gif my Pio RPTV had HDCP. the only way I can think of is to get an ext HDMI switcher that can remove the HDCP wrapper for converting to component video & 7.1 analog audio. you might check HDTVSupply; they sell all kinds of atypical solutions.

The SC-68, like all HDMI receivers, by licensing must use transmitting-receiving chipsets that have HDCP. no way to get around that.

cable length is not going to be a problem.

hopefully, you can get a new HDTV soon smile.gif
post #792 of 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

^^
without HDCP, it's not likely to work. in fact, I can about guarantee it wink.gif

your Sony must really be old to use DVI without HDCP wink.gif my Pio RPTV had HDCP. the only way I can think of is to get an ext HDMI switcher that can remove the HDCP wrapper for converting to component video & 7.1 analog audio. you might check HDTVSupply; they sell all kinds of atypical solutions.

The SC-68, like all HDMI receivers, by licensing must use transmitting-receiving chipsets that have HDCP. no way to get around that.

cable length is not going to be a problem.

hopefully, you can get a new HDTV soon smile.gif

Yeah... That's what I thought.

For some reason, I have always been an early adopter and then hold onto things for quite a while. My Sony 70" XBRwas the first 70" that came out. Very impressive in its day. I'm looking to go 80" or probably 90" for its replacement.

I looked at some HDCP "strippers" or connections, but they are in the hundreds of dollars and not worth it to save some wiring connections now.

I know how to make this work, but I was hoping to get rid of all those component cables. In fact, I have an Oppo 103 coming and it doesn't even have component output. I guess I'll only be able to use it for music until I get the TV. I'll probably do so in a few weeks.

Thank you.
post #793 of 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by Escape View Post

Anybody have any ideas how maybe the Elite SC-67/68 will sound with the Klipsch RF-7 II.

I have RF-7 IIs and power them with a sc-67 and really enjoy them. I ran them on a denon stereo receiver and wan't pleased with the sound. I swapped it out with an pioneer sc-07 i have in my movie room just to see the difference and it was night and day. Thats what prompted me to search for a new amp or reciever. I debated on going more traditional two channel, but in the end chose the 67 for the flexability and the sound is great.
post #794 of 1835
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackVette View Post

I know how to make this work, but I was hoping to get rid of all those component cables. In fact, I have an Oppo 103 coming and it doesn't even have component output.

it's called the "analog sunset".

I can't remember the dates for how it phased in on Blu-ray players, but it started by limiting 1080p to HDMI & component video limited to 1080i, then all hi-def on HDMI & if a title was flagged, it would limit component video to 540p max & the final stage is 2013 with no analog video connections on Blu-ray players, period. it was phased in to supposedly allow early adopters of HDTV's to upgrade smile.gif

at least you know the direction you have to go....bye bye Sony wink.gif

I hung on to my 53" Elite RPTV that's in beautiful shape a bit too long, a $5K TV, state of the art, CRT HDTV but not many people want big boxes anymore. I'd have to practically give it away & being in pristine condition I'm not willing to do that....it's in another room, hardly gets used but at least I didn't hardcode the loss of >$4000 eek.gif I've seen ads for Pioneer's 68" Elite RPTV's, the biggest they made, gorgeous piano black cabinet, MSRP close to $7K, for only couple hundred eek.gif

the price of technology moving on frown.gif
post #795 of 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

it's called the "analog sunset".

I can't remember the dates for how it phased in on Blu-ray players, but it started by limiting 1080p to HDMI & component video limited to 1080i, then all hi-def on HDMI & if a title was flagged, it would limit component video to 540p max & the final stage is 2013 with no analog video connections on Blu-ray players, period. it was phased in to supposedly allow early adopters of HDTV's to upgrade smile.gif

at least you know the direction you have to go....bye bye Sony wink.gif

I hung on to my 53" Elite RPTV that's in beautiful shape a bit too long, a $5K TV, state of the art, CRT HDTV but not many people want big boxes anymore. I'd have to practically give it away & being in pristine condition I'm not willing to do that....it's in another room, hardly gets used but at least I didn't hardcode the loss of >$4000 eek.gif I've seen ads for Pioneer's 68" Elite RPTV's, the biggest they made, gorgeous piano black cabinet, MSRP close to $7K, for only couple hundred eek.gif

the price of technology moving on frown.gif

Yep... Understood....

My 70" Sony and old equipment is moving down to the Basement Gameroom. Should work fine there.

Looking forward to playing with the SC68 on Friday
post #796 of 1835
Need some help about using SC-68 preouts. I want to drive my Center (Polk Audio CS2 Series II) and Front speakers (Polk Audio Monitor 70 Series II) using XPA-5, and SC-68 to Drive my surround (Polk Audio Monitor 40 Series II), Surround Back (Sony, Don't know specs, but sounded pretty good, came with House), Front High + Zone 2 using the Front Wide. My plan was to connect sc-68 front and center preouts to XPA-5, and have all the channels (except for zone 2) run in sync as Main Zone. Can this be done this way?

Another interesting question i have, my Front Towers have 4 binding posts (for bi-amping). Is there a merit in driving them with 2 channel input? What is the best way to do it? I know this could be a bit off for sc-68 discussion, would appreciate if not get flamed. Connected thinking with sc-68, couldn't help it.

BTW, i tried to read through this thread to understand if preouts are active while driving main zone in sc-68, but could not get clear answers. Sorry if i missed a discussion.
post #797 of 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

it's called the "analog sunset".

I can't remember the dates for how it phased in on Blu-ray players, but it started by limiting 1080p to HDMI & component video limited to 1080i, then all hi-def on HDMI & if a title was flagged, it would limit component video to 540p max & the final stage is 2013 with no analog video connections on Blu-ray players, period. it was phased in to supposedly allow early adopters of HDTV's to upgrade smile.gif

at least you know the direction you have to go....bye bye Sony wink.gif

I hung on to my 53" Elite RPTV that's in beautiful shape a bit too long, a $5K TV, state of the art, CRT HDTV but not many people want big boxes anymore. I'd have to practically give it away & being in pristine condition I'm not willing to do that....it's in another room, hardly gets used but at least I didn't hardcode the loss of >$4000 eek.gif I've seen ads for Pioneer's 68" Elite RPTV's, the biggest they made, gorgeous piano black cabinet, MSRP close to $7K, for only couple hundred eek.gif

the price of technology moving on frown.gif

Analog sunset info: http://hometheater.about.com/od/hometheatervideobasics/a/High-Definition-Via-Component-Video-Connections-Ends-January-1st-2011.htm
post #798 of 1835
Thread Starter 
^^
thanks for the info & jogging the memory smile.gif
post #799 of 1835
I purchased an album in 24bit/192kHz FLAC format. There are 5 tracks and I downloaded them to a USB drive to play it on SC-68. It has no problem playing the first two tracks, but shows "File Format Error" (or something in that nature as I don't have it in front of me now) on all the other 3 tracks. However, the same USB drive plays totally fine on my PC with other software. I don't have other 24/192 FLAC to test with. This is very discouraging. I wonder if other people having this same issue or not.
post #800 of 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackVette View Post

My 70" Sony and old equipment is moving down to the Basement Gameroom. Should work fine there.

Since you said your TV DVI works fine with HDMI output from a cable box, your TV may support HDCP if you havn't tried. Also in case people don't already know, SC-68 does video upscaling which takes old composite or component video input and output to a HDMI display - so you don't have to throw everything to basement unless you want to buy all new stuff, of cours;):De
post #801 of 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by syendluri View Post

Another interesting question i have, my Front Towers have 4 binding posts (for bi-amping). Is there a merit in driving them with 2 channel input? What is the best way to do it? I know this could be a bit off for sc-68 discussion, would appreciate if not get flamed. Connected thinking with sc-68, couldn't help it.

I've gone down this thinking path before so thought I can share a bit of what I learned with you. Since your speaker has 2 pairs of binding posts, there is a chance that the upper pair is for the tweeter and the lower pair is for the other drivers. There is also a chance that they both connect to all the tweeter and drivers. You can easily test it by just connecting the uppere or lower pair and see which tweeter/driver has no sound. If you connect two pair of wires to the same speaker, that's called bi-wiring. If you do that from two different amps to the same speakere, that's called bi-amping. Bi-wiring makes no sense, unless you can hear a difference between using two pairs of cables vs one pair of cables plus the short jumpers between the two pairs of posts. Bi-amping also makes little sense if you think that would give you more power. However, some people may choose to drive the tweeters with a tube amp and other drivers with a solid state amp if the speaker supports that kind of configuration.
post #802 of 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by soniky View Post

Since you said your TV DVI works fine with HDMI output from a cable box, your TV may support HDCP if you havn't tried. Also in case people don't already know, SC-68 does video upscaling which takes old composite or component video input and output to a HDMI display - so you don't have to throw everything to basement unless you want to buy all new stuff, of cours;):De

I decided to do a search on my TV. At least from what I saw, it looks like the DVI on the TV is HDCP compliant.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

One more question.... I'm assuming my HDMI to DVI cable is okay? Is there any different cable needed if HDCP is being carried?
post #803 of 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by soniky View Post

I've gone down this thinking path before so thought I can share a bit of what I learned with you. Since your speaker has 2 pairs of binding posts, there is a chance that the upper pair is for the tweeter and the lower pair is for the other drivers. There is also a chance that they both connect to all the tweeter and drivers. You can easily test it by just connecting the uppere or lower pair and see which tweeter/driver has no sound. If you connect two pair of wires to the same speaker, that's called bi-wiring. If you do that from two different amps to the same speakere, that's called bi-amping. Bi-wiring makes no sense, unless you can hear a difference between using two pairs of cables vs one pair of cables plus the short jumpers between the two pairs of posts. Bi-amping also makes little sense if you think that would give you more power. However, some people may choose to drive the tweeters with a tube amp and other drivers with a solid state amp if the speaker supports that kind of configuration.

I am pretty sure they are not connected (the towers came with connected metal plate(s) between 2 sets of binding posts). I will test it out. My assumption i am going with is that, they are not connected internally when i remove the metal plates, and have crossover internally. What i was thinking of doing to have a full movie experience setup:
1) Get my LF preout from sc-68 go to 2 channels on XPA-5 (using a RCA splitter), and drive the tower from XPA-5 with 2 channel amplification
2) Do the same with RF preouts from sc-68
3) use the remaining one channel in XPA-5 to drive my center (center preout from sc-68 to XPA-5 5th channel)
4) Drive my FH, Surround, Surround Back from SC-68.

This could be crazy thinking, but that's coming from being a novice to this area. Will appreciate any comments if this makes any sense.
post #804 of 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackVette View Post

Is there any different cable needed if HDCP is being carried?

I don't think so.
post #805 of 1835
Thread Starter 
good news for you! and no, a cable with HDMI on one end & DVI on the other is fine. unless this is a bargain basement cable, 2-3 meters, it has good potential to work for you. there is no guarantee of success, tho.

if you get speckles, snow, lines and you aren't going to buy a new TV for a time, there are repeaters, boosters, even a switcher will help boost, for signal boosting.

if you get no video & the HDMI LED on the receiver is flashing, then there's a problem with the HDCP handshake. you can try another input for the source or try the other HDMI output. also check to see if the HDMI light is solid when just the source and receiver are connected while the receiver & TV are not. if it's solid then turn off the receiver, reconnect to the TV and see if it flashes on the receiver. if it does, then the TV may be too old for its identifier ID to be recognized by the receiver.

I encountered this myself with a Pioneer universal pre-Bluray player; it's HDMI 1.0 spec and the signal gets passed to the TV A-OK thru a switcher but not thru either Pioneer receiver I have (SC-09 & SC-68) it just doesn't make the handshake thru the receivers. I have a similar issue with a JVC D-VHS hi-def deck that's HDMI 1.1 - while I get connectivity, it only works for 480i not 1080i that's on D-Theater tape. and that also used to work thru the same switcher to my DVI TV. ended up using component video on the JVC and I don't use the Pio uni player for DVD's anyway, just hi-rez music so moot point. but I mention this because even tho HDMI is supposed to be backwards compatible...it really isn't tongue.gifwink.gif

keep us posted on how it works out smile.gif
post #806 of 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by syendluri View Post

I am pretty sure they are not connected (the towers came with connected metal plate(s) between 2 sets of binding posts). I will test it out. My assumption i am going with is that, they are not connected internally when i remove the metal plates, and have crossover internally. What i was thinking of doing to have a full movie experience setup:
1) Get my LF preout from sc-68 go to 2 channels on XPA-5 (using a RCA splitter), and drive the tower from XPA-5 with 2 channel amplification
2) Do the same with RF preouts from sc-68
3) use the remaining one channel in XPA-5 to drive my center (center preout from sc-68 to XPA-5 5th channel)
4) Drive my FH, Surround, Surround Back from SC-68.

This could be crazy thinking, but that's coming from being a novice to this area. Will appreciate any comments if this makes any sense.

There are so many discussions about bi-wiring and bi-amping aready. Just google and you will know. The bottom line is, if you can hear a difference between your speaker cable and the speaker jumper, then bi-wire may make a difference for you (better just simply replace the jumper with a small section of your cable). If you can hear a difference between the amp output of SC-68 and XPA-5 (you can just try it) to your speaker, then you can choose the amp that you like. The key is to do it for the sound quality, not for more power (volume) as I am very sure SC-68 has all the power you'll need for your speaker. Same as XPA-5, you should not need to use two channels to power the same speaker for more power. Do you feel they are not loud enough? Although they are there for you to use for free, I really doubt that you'll be able to hear a difference. Because you will be using the same amp for your front and center speakers, which will feed the exact same full range of signals to the uppper and lower posts, you won't get any benefit of sound improvement. Some people swear they hear a difference from bi-wiring, the only logical explaination is either they have lousy cables to start with or the speaker jumper is lousy. Some people claim they hear a difference from bi-amping as what you are thinking of doing, the only logical explaination can be the same as bi-wiring and/or that they have a very very underpowered amp to start with. In the latter case, to make it technically possible, the amp must have full discrete power components meaning that each amp channels has their own power supply and etc. Even so, since they'll be connected in parallel, it's not the same as 1+1. Again, do it for the sound quality of a different amp if you like, but it won't be for more power in your case.
post #807 of 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by soniky View Post

There are so many discussions about bi-wiring and bi-amping aready. Just google and you will know. The bottom line is, if you can hear a difference between your speaker cable and the speaker jumper, then bi-wire may make a difference for you (better just simply replace the jumper with a small section of your cable). If you can hear a difference between the amp output of SC-68 and XPA-5 (you can just try it) to your speaker, then you can choose the amp that you like. The key is to do it for the sound quality, not for more power (volume) as I am very sure SC-68 has all the power you'll need for your speaker. Same as XPA-5, you should not need to use two channels to power the same speaker for more power. Do you feel they are not loud enough? Although they are there for you to use for free, I really doubt that you'll be able to hear a difference. Because you will be using the same amp for your front and center speakers, which will feed the exact same full range of signals to the uppper and lower posts, you won't get any benefit of sound improvement. Some people swear they hear a difference from bi-wiring, the only logical explaination is either they have lousy cables to start with or the speaker jumper is lousy. Some people claim they hear a difference from bi-amping as what you are thinking of doing, the only logical explaination can be the same as bi-wiring and/or that they have a very very underpowered amp to start with. In the latter case, to make it technically possible, the amp must have full discrete power components meaning that each amp channels has their own power supply and etc. Even so, since they'll be connected in parallel, it's not the same as 1+1. Again, do it for the sound quality of a different amp if you like, but it won't be for more power in your case.

Agreed. My curiosity in adding more amps to drive is to get details, not more volume or power. As it is, sc-68 drives them really well for volume and power. I am getting XPA-5 anyway to free up sc-68 to drive FH and zone2. Thanks for the quick response.
post #808 of 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by syendluri View Post

Agreed. My curiosity in adding more amps to drive is to get details, not more volume or power. As it is, sc-68 drives them really well for volume and power. I am getting XPA-5 anyway to free up sc-68 to drive FH and zone2. Thanks for the quick response.

Not sure how are you going to synchronize and balance the volume between the two amps to your speakers. I don't know whether SC-68 provides variable or fixed output on the pre-out.
post #809 of 1835
Does the SC-67 support HD-Radio?
I searched the manual and couldn't find any mention of it.
post #810 of 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

good news for you! and no, a cable with HDMI on one end & DVI on the other is fine. unless this is a bargain basement cable, 2-3 meters, it has good potential to work for you. there is no guarantee of success, tho.

if you get speckles, snow, lines and you aren't going to buy a new TV for a time, there are repeaters, boosters, even a switcher will help boost, for signal boosting.

if you get no video & the HDMI LED on the receiver is flashing, then there's a problem with the HDCP handshake. you can try another input for the source or try the other HDMI output. also check to see if the HDMI light is solid when just the source and receiver are connected while the receiver & TV are not. if it's solid then turn off the receiver, reconnect to the TV and see if it flashes on the receiver. if it does, then the TV may be too old for its identifier ID to be recognized by the receiver.

I encountered this myself with a Pioneer universal pre-Bluray player; it's HDMI 1.0 spec and the signal gets passed to the TV A-OK thru a switcher but not thru either Pioneer receiver I have (SC-09 & SC-68) it just doesn't make the handshake thru the receivers. I have a similar issue with a JVC D-VHS hi-def deck that's HDMI 1.1 - while I get connectivity, it only works for 480i not 1080i that's on D-Theater tape. and that also used to work thru the same switcher to my DVI TV. ended up using component video on the JVC and I don't use the Pio uni player for DVD's anyway, just hi-rez music so moot point. but I mention this because even tho HDMI is supposed to be backwards compatible...it really isn't tongue.gifwink.gif

keep us posted on how it works out smile.gif

Thank you.

I thought the cable would be okay. I've been using it already to connect my Cable Box HDMI to the DVI connection on the TV. Picture is good. I just wanted to make sure I was ready for the marathon this weekend of swapping out units.

I'll be getting the TV soon. Thining about a Sharp 80" or Sharp 90"

Since I've had a 70" for so long, I want something bigger. Any opinions?
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