or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › Official Pioneer SC-68/67 Thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Official Pioneer SC-68/67 Thread - Page 4

post #91 of 1835
Thread Starter 
For jitter nuts and other bench test fans wink.gif
http://www.milleraudioresearch.com/avtech/index.html
post #92 of 1835
Thread Starter 
Lotus00

I see you've been posting in the Denon 4311 asking there about HDMI multi-zone audio. And being told no current AVR supports what you want. Maybe I have misread the Pioneer manual in assuming it can switch 2 HDMI sources independent from ea other. I just can't tell you for sure without trying it and temporarily I have removed it from my setup.

IF you still have interest in this & can wait for 3-4 weeks, I may be able to check it for you, altho I'd have to rig up something since I don't use multiroom. I have to agree with ccotenj, tho. Multiroom functions in AVR's have been around for yrs and IMO, by the time you jump thru the hoops to wire thru walls, attics, and also have multiple IR/RF controls throughout your house (the apple apps would simplify this smile.gif) it could easily be simpler & a whole lot cheaper to just setup simple systems in ea room wink.gif

I don't know about you, but paying electricians, even LV ones from an integrator, $100/hr to fish, drill, patch walls, is something I would want to avoid paying, unless it was new construction or rooms very close together of course.

The 1% may have the thousands of $ it could take to wire a house for multizone distr a/v but that certainly wouldn't be my spending priority.

And on another topic, I also may have misinterpreted Yamaha's Party mode, now that I read batpig's answer to you. To me, Party mode always meant extended stereo to all speakers in the same room. But someone more familiar with Yamaha models would know for sure.
post #93 of 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

Lotus00
I see you've been posting in the Denon 4311 asking there about HDMI multi-zone audio. And being told no current AVR supports what you want. Maybe I have misread the Pioneer manual in assuming it can switch 2 HDMI sources independent from ea other. I just can't tell you for sure without trying it and temporarily I have removed it from my setup.
IF you still have interest in this & can wait for 3-4 weeks, I may be able to check it for you, altho I'd have to rig up something since I don't use multiroom. I have to agree with ccotenj, tho. Multiroom functions in AVR's have been around for yrs and IMO, by the time you jump thru the hoops to wire thru walls, attics, and also have multiple IR/RF controls throughout your house (the apple apps would simplify this smile.gif) it could easily be simpler & a whole lot cheaper to just setup simple systems in ea room wink.gif
I don't know about you, but paying electricians, even LV ones from an integrator, $100/hr to fish, drill, patch walls, is something I would want to avoid paying, unless it was new construction or rooms very close together of course.
The 1% may have the thousands of $ it could take to wire a house for multizone distr a/v but that certainly wouldn't be my spending priority.
And on another topic, I also may have misinterpreted Yamaha's Party mode, now that I read batpig's answer to you. To me, Party mode always meant extended stereo to all speakers in the same room. But someone more familiar with Yamaha models would know for sure.

Thanks. Apparently you always have to have an analog connection to pass the audio to both zones in addition to the hdmi connection. It may be an expensive option for the OEM to integrate but defintiely think it is an important one and would be well received. It means less cables through the walls and is cleaner and simpler (hdmi is just one cat5 now). If you prewire your home or run cables through walls naturally you want to have the option to have the computer video on tv and the audio through other zones. One example, sometimes bands I like have webcasts of concerts and I like putting the video on the tv and sending the audio through the whole house. My place is wired for that. yes it is expensive to fish wires thru walls and drill through brick and multiple trusses biggrin.gif but for new construction its cheap. When you're building you just run the speaker wire and cat cable everywhere you want before drywall goes up. It will always be there for you. Anyway, the optical out/headphone mini jack on laptop is not the best way to get audio to the system which is one reason why I was hoping and hdmi only option would someday come out. Appreciate you offering to check it out but apparently it doesnt exist. Temporary fix for me may be to find a laptop that has real rca jack or maybe some analog interface i can place between laptop and rca connection to receiver. I will research my options but certainly it would be a big deal if people could pass audio to all zones or at least 2 with only an hdmi connection! Woohoo wouldnt that be cool and convenient.
post #94 of 1835
party mode is probably just button you push to send the audio to all zones. Analog cables are still in the mix.
post #95 of 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

For jitter nuts and other bench test fans wink.gif
http://www.milleraudioresearch.com/avtech/index.html
Indeed that was the source of the data. The site requires registration to see the measurements and hence the reason I did not link to it.

I should have noted that Pioneer still does better than other AVR manufacturers which tend to have tons more jitter when using HDMI. I don't recall if I post this article I wrote on the topic but if not, here it is: http://www.madronadigital.com/Library/DigitalAudioJitter.html. It includes measurement for Onkyo and Yamaha from Paul's reviews which are far worse than the Pioneer example. Seems like Paul has lost interest in testing AVRs and so there have not been newer tests since.
post #96 of 1835
Curious to hear if the iPod searching/navigation has improved from the SC-05. I have my entire CD library in my iPod classic, which has over 10K songs and hundreds of artists/albums. So navigating through the artists/albums through the SC-05 can be a pain. Oddly, on the older VSX-03TXH which is now in the bedroom, the left/right buttons on my remote would allow you to skip multiple names in order to increase scrolling speed if say your artist's name begins with M, right in the middle of the alphabet. But that was removed from the SC-05, where the left button acts as a "go back up a level" so when you're searching Artists and hit up, you are pushed up one menu level.

Would love to hear how iPod searching is done on the new 2012 Elite receivers. My parents need a new receiver with HDMI switching, so if the searching has improved and the sound quality of these new receivers is better than my SC-05, then I'll upgrade my main receiver, move the 05 to the bedroom and give my 03TXH to my parents.
post #97 of 1835
I own the SC-07 and honestly I have pretty much just not had any time for AVS the past 2 years so I have missed a few generation of receiver talk. I do have two questions and appreciate anyone that feels like helping me out.

1) The SC-27 (could be wrong on the number) was "falsly" advertising that it could do 9.1 (with 2-channel amp). It actually could only do two different 7.1 configurations. Is the SC-68 capable of 9.1 even if it requires a separate amplifier for the 2 extra channels? I don't even care about discrete 9.1 what I want is to power the two extra back channels with the same sound as my other surrounds. Just with multiple rows I think this would be neat

EDIT - just saw 9.2 and actually rated for 4 ohm - WOW getting impressed now. Never was happy with Bass management but that can be solved hmmmm

2) So am I reading this as ICE amps are gone? had heard rumblings but as I was lost in dealing with kids and just enjoying my equipment smile.gif I missed this. So are you guys that had previous version happy with the sound / any difference? I have never been as happy with any AVR as I am with my SC-07 but would love to have that RF connectivity as my equipment is in a closet and I am just not happy with the options (and frankly don't have time for irule and alternate solutions).

Thanks!
post #98 of 1835
So ss9001, do you think it would be safe to say I would be happy with an upgrade form an Onkyo 805 to the sc-68? Mainly I'm concerned about powering my jbl stadiums (really power-hungry floorstanders) and I've always felt they sounded a bit anemic with the 805. The only thing I find odd is I can't find any 'real' power rating on the sc68, only that '1khz' momentary rating? I'm also tired of the crappy build quality of the onkyo, hdmi out port is so loose I have to get the cable just right to make the connection :/

Speakers -> http://www.amazon.com/JBL-Series-Stadium-8-Inch-Speaker/dp/B000FD3W1G/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
(4 of those with the matching center channel)
post #99 of 1835
I very recently bought a home with an existing media room which included in-the-wall Polk Audio fronts and surrounds. I purchased a Polk Audio center and SW to complete the 7.1 system. I stuck with the Polk Audio brand in order to better match timbre, etc. I just set up my new SC-68 using the Full Auto MCAA and it sounds great! Very impressed with this machine. I'm new to the world of audiophile and have learned a ton on this forum (Thank you!). I look forward to reading post and leaning more going forward!
post #100 of 1835
I just tried out the new PC to DAC interface with my SC-68 last night and while it sounded great, I experienced a lot of cutting in and out while playing high res music files. Also would get a high piercing buzz at times. I have a long USB run of 35 ft to the receiver, so not sure if that is an issue. Tried a variety of flac and wav music files and all had the issue. But when playing regular MP3 files, didn't experience many drop outs at all. Not sure what is going on and wondering if anyone has any suggestions. It's my first time using a DAC interface for music.

My PC setup is a recent custom HPTC build using an AMD FX-6100 CPU, ASRock Z68 Extreme4 z68 extreme4 gen3/a/asr ATX Motherboard, XFX Radeon HD 6770 video card w/16 GB ram. Tried XBMC, VLC media player and another media player, all had drop outs. Just wondering if anyone knows if its a settings issue and do I need to tweak something somewhere? XBMC sees the loaded drivers that came with the SC-68 on CD in its system settings for Audio output, and that is what I select. Going to keep working on it to see if maybe moving the PC to closer and using a different USB cable makes a difference but not sure what else to try.

Any ideas?
post #101 of 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by Molson1042 View Post

I just tried out the new PC to DAC interface with my SC-68 last night and while it sounded great, I experienced a lot of cutting in and out while playing high res music files. Also would get a high piercing buzz at times. I have a long USB run of 35 ft to the receiver, so not sure if that is an issue. Tried a variety of flac and wav music files and all had the issue. But when playing regular MP3 files, didn't experience many drop outs at all. Not sure what is going on and wondering if anyone has any suggestions. It's my first time using a DAC interface for music.
My PC setup is a recent custom HPTC build using an AMD FX-6100 CPU, ASRock Z68 Extreme4 z68 extreme4 gen3/a/asr ATX Motherboard, XFX Radeon HD 6770 video card w/16 GB ram. Tried XBMC, VLC media player and another media player, all had drop outs. Just wondering if anyone knows if its a settings issue and do I need to tweak something somewhere? XBMC sees the loaded drivers that came with the SC-68 on CD in its system settings for Audio output, and that is what I select. Going to keep working on it to see if maybe moving the PC to closer and using a different USB cable makes a difference but not sure what else to try.
Any ideas?

Have you tried using the new alpha builds of XBMC with the re-vamped audio engine? This will let you send full-quality over hdmi (presumably better than their proprietary usb driver interface).
post #102 of 1835
I've used two versions of the XBMC latest nightly builds and both did the same thing. Also have tried Windows Media Player with just MP3s and they cut out even worse. I now have moved the PC next to the receiver and have tried three different USB cables and all experienced drop outs. Tried several USB ports on my PC and all had dropouts also. Interesting that when I tried the USB 3.0 ports, the device drivers would not load and I couldnt get it to play at all.

I listed the wrong motherboard before, I have a Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD3. Rather frustrated now. Did go back to XBMC and fed the signal to the SC-68 through the HDMI connection and it is a night and day difference. When it is playing through the DAC, it sounds way better. No comparison at all, the DAC interface is much superior for sound quality. Which is what makes this issue so much more bothersome. Really want to get this to work correctly.

Does anyone else have audio going to the DAC input on their SC-68 from their PC with no dropouts, crackles, or whine?
post #103 of 1835
Thread Starter 
^^
When I tried it out about a week ago, I heard no distortion, no crackles, had no dropouts, just clear, great sound. Played ripped wav & aac files using both WMP11 & itunes off a win XP pro tablet edition PC with Intel CPU & 2 GB RAM (my work laptop).

Std USB 2.0 and USB 6 ft cable length.

And you're sure the driver got installed OK? can you return & exchange the 68 for a new one? so many possible issues, from motherboard to sound card, OS.
Edited by ss9001 - 8/18/12 at 1:20pm
post #104 of 1835
Yes, can be any one of a number of things. I do have a brand new laptop coming monday for my son, so I will load the drivers on that unit and hook it up and see what happens. Process of elimination to determine the root problem. Glad to hear it is working for you. But if works for laptop, then I need to figure out what the heck is up with my htpc build. Oh well, will post my findings after I try the new laptop.
post #105 of 1835
the 35 ft usb run could definitely be an issue... that's an awful long way, anything over 15 ft with usb becomes questionable...

when you get the lappy, start by using a short usb cable...
post #106 of 1835
Drop outs indicate buffer underruns. This could be a fault of the audio device (firmware, hardware, or driver) or your current PC configuration which blocks interrupts too long for the audio device to get serviced properly. The former is the manufacturer problem to fix. For the latter, there is a good tool you can run: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1422205/official-pioneer-sc-68-67-thread/90#post_22320160

If it shows high latency, then try unplugging and uninstalling anything not necessary for the moment and see if it goes away. If so, then plug/install things one at a time to find out which is doing it and see if you can do without.
post #107 of 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

For jitter nuts and other bench test fans wink.gif
http://www.milleraudioresearch.com/avtech/index.html

What are the numbers?

Is it as good as the SC-37?
post #108 of 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post

What are the numbers?
They are the measured total jitter expressed in picoseconds (billionth of a second). An ideal system (which doesn't exist) will have zero jitter. In reality, you want to see 500 picoseconds or lower as that is what is needed to achieve transparency for 16-bit signals that have 20 Khz of bandwidth (i.e. CD quality).
Quote:
Is it as good as the SC-37?
The only data is for the models there. So we don't really know.
post #109 of 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Drop outs indicate buffer underruns. This could be a fault of the audio device (firmware, hardware, or driver) or your current PC configuration which blocks interrupts too long for the audio device to get serviced properly. The former is the manufacturer problem to fix. For the latter, there is a good tool you can run: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1422205/official-pioneer-sc-68-67-thread/90#post_22320160

If it shows high latency, then try unplugging and uninstalling anything not necessary for the moment and see if it goes away. If so, then plug/install things one at a time to find out which is doing it and see if you can do without.

or one could start with the simpler place, and realize that the transmission method being used is well out of spec...

op... try a shorter cable... if that does not work, THEN dig deeper...
post #110 of 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

the 35 ft usb run could definitely be an issue... that's an awful long way, anything over 15 ft with usb becomes questionable...
when you get the lappy, start by using a short usb cable...

I have run repeater usb cables for my PS3 move and made it 30ft and have had drop-outs and issues with the signal not being consistent enough. I would not expect flawless music over a 35 ft usb cable. Great repeater cable etc may work that lenght (I did cheap out with monoprice cables)
post #111 of 1835
This question will show my limited understanding of playing HiRez files and taking advantage of the new DACs, but could you just play the files over your home network assuming the receiver is plugged in with an ethernet cable? Is there anything additional that would be required to get the full resolution of the files?
post #112 of 1835
Has anyone used one of these SC's with a Kuro Pro-151 flatscreen? I just brought home the SC-67 and have many questions about using them together. Since both have video processing, not sure the best way to set up. Before I ask away, thought I'd check 1st if a) anyone has experience with the 2 together, and/or b) if there is a thread somewhere else that discusses it. Thanks!
post #113 of 1835
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuschweb View Post

Has anyone used one of these SC's with a Kuro Pro-151 flatscreen? I just brought home the SC-67 and have many questions about using them together. Since both have video processing, not sure the best way to set up. Before I ask away, thought I'd check 1st if a) anyone has experience with the 2 together, and/or b) if there is a thread somewhere else that discusses it. Thanks!

yes to both smile.gif
I am using the 68 with the 151.

what would you like to know?

it's pretty straightforward. has your Kuro been ISF calibrated & if yes, to what player/sources?

as far as video processing is concerned, I go by the paradigm of "do no harm", the original way Pioneer did HDMI through their AVR's, turning the AVR processor OFF. I can give you my reasons if you're interested. Not saying going thru the on-board video proc is "bad", not at all.

I can give you my own "way" to mate players (both Oppo & Pioneer) thru the AVR to the Kuro & you go from there. But fire away with what you'd like to know...
post #114 of 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

or one could start with the simpler place, and realize that the transmission method being used is well out of spec...op... try a shorter cable... if that does not work, THEN dig deeper...
Not if he has already tried that smile.gif. "I now have moved the PC next to the receiver and have tried three different USB cables and all experienced drop outs. "
post #115 of 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

yes to both smile.gif
I am using the 68 with the 151.
what would you like to know?
it's pretty straightforward. has your Kuro been ISF calibrated & if yes, to what player/sources?
as far as video processing is concerned, I go by the paradigm of "do no harm", the original way Pioneer did HDMI through their AVR's, turning the AVR processor OFF. I can give you my reasons if you're interested. Not saying going thru the on-board video proc is "bad", not at all.
I can give you my own "way" to mate players (both Oppo & Pioneer) thru the AVR to the Kuro & you go from there. But fire away with what you'd like to know...

Thanks mucho, Steve. I've noticed you have a lot of input here, I appreciate your taking the time! And yes, I'm interested in your reasons.

My 1st question relates to connection. I had an old Denon with no current video inputs, so the DirecTV DVR and LG BD390 Blu-ray were connected directly to HDMI inputs on the TV, with optical and coax going directly to the receiver for the audio. I like the idea of having less switching to do, so I connected the new set up with the 2 component's HDMI into the AVR, with one HDMI out to the TV input, no more separate audio cables from each component, but one optical cable in the digital out from the 151 (no ARC on?). The problem I have with that setup is that I had separate video settings on the TV for the respective inputs - the AV selection on the 151 is set to Standard for DirecTV and Movie for the Blu-ray. So now I have to select the AV Selection video settings depending on my source. Am I better off the old way? Or is there a way to have the video settings on the 151 change automatically when the source is changed?

The other part of this I may have already partly answered but brings up a new question about the video settings on the 151. I watched Hunger Games Blu-ray last night with my wife, after finally hooking up the new SC-67, and realized it was on the Standard setting on the 151 - the HDMI is in the same input as the DirecTV DVR was. We started watching the movie in the Standard setting and it was incredibly grainy! I mean, like someone painted the picture we were seeing with colored sand. Not every scene, but an awful lot (at 4:17, when Katniss is about to shoot the deer, all the greenery, the bark on the tree, and her face are super grainy). I immediately thought the AVR was doing some extra video processing and it was screwing up the picture. I switched the AV Selection to Movie, and voila! the graininess was gone. But the picture became overly washed out and without pop, and soft. I put the blu-ray cable back in the original input of the 151 and had pretty much the same result. Ok, so it's not the new connection to the AVR, but I've probably been watching blu-rays with that washed out, soft setting for a while. I actually like parts of the Standard setting for movie viewing, but in playing around with the settings in the Pro Adjust menu, tweaking a setting here and there didn't accomplish the result I wanted. I guess I could use some advice on setting the movie settings to have less softness and more contrast? To answer your question about calibration, no, haven't had it done.

Ok, so 1) connection question, 2) video settings on the151, and then 3) I have a question about what video settings to use on the SC-67. I didn't do much in the way of settings at all during the set up, so it's all in default, was going for getting it set up the quickest way possible to watch a movie, then going in and tweaking settings later, like this week. No Auto MCACC yet, wanted to set it manually first.

Finally, 4) I discovered an issue just now that may have to do with the LG BD390 - when I try to use VuDu or Netflix streaming on it, the sound is output only in stereo. It should be Dolby Digital with VuDu and Dolby Prologic (I think) with Netflix. I tried cycling through the Auto/ALC/Direct button and the Signal Sel button with no fix. It only showed the 2 speakers with all of those cycles. Is this something to do with HDMI and the source there? The only change, aside from the new AVR, is audio not being connected through coax audio cable, but HDMI. I have a 5.1 speaker setup.

Sorry for the book-like format, I'm probably a little fried and info-overloaded with going from an old car to a new spaceship, so to speak, but I'm a quick learner. Any input on these questions would be greatly appreciated. If the info on the 151 is already out there, I couldn't find it (i.e. better video settings than the default), but would also be happy with a link, if easier.

Btw, my profile shows a new user, but I've been here for a while, going back to the days with my previous Pro-610HD and the early days of HDTV when DirecTV had 5 (ooo, count 'em, 5) HD channels. Not sure why shows as new...

Thanks,
Bill
post #116 of 1835
Thread Starter 
^^
whew...that's a lot to digest wink.gif Let me read it over & take it a point at a time. I don't have the time right now to answer - do have work to do eek.gif

But I'll post when I can. And I still have a PRO530 in the house, great RPTV. But I had to have a Kuro before Pioneer shut 'er down so the old went upstairs, home theater room got the new!
post #117 of 1835
Glad I found this thread and it supported my reasons for going from the Denon 4311ci to Pioneer SC-57. For the $$$ that I blew on the 4311ci, it wasn't worth it. Audyssey isn't for every room and is highly overrated as far as I am concerned. Normal hearing is not flat! Coming back to Pioneer and chosing the SC-57 was a good decison and I got much better SQ in my HT room.
post #118 of 1835
On my SC-57 when I had 8 ohm speakers, the trim came in around -5 or so. Now with 4 ohm speakers, I run out of trim at -12. Since the SC-68 is rated for 4 ohm speakers, doesthe trim settings go further then -12?
post #119 of 1835
Thread Starter 
^^
not sure exactly what you mean. trim as in channel level or trim in MCACC, or volume level?

just as I noticed the SC-09TX calibrated all channels -6dB less than my older VSX-49Txi & VSX-59txi models, the 68 seems to set the levels a bit higher than the SC-09TX, same for the fronts,but about 2-3 dB more for the center & surrounds were also a bit higher, but I don't remember the numbers.

Chris Walker @ Pioneer did tell me that Pioneer & Air Studios do tweak & change the MCACC tuning to get their desired results.
post #120 of 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

^^
not sure exactly what you mean. trim as in channel level or trim in MCACC, or volume level?
just as I noticed the SC-09TX calibrated all channels -6dB less than my older VSX-49Txi & VSX-59txi models, the 68 seems to set the levels a bit higher than the SC-09TX, same for the fronts,but about 2-3 dB more for the center & surrounds were also a bit higher, but I don't remember the numbers.
Chris Walker @ Pioneer did tell me that Pioneer & Air Studios do tweak & change the MCACC tuning to get their desired results.

I ment Channel trim in the MCACC speaker setup menu.Curently I use my SC-57 as a prepro with Sunfire amps and use Harrison Labs 12 dB RCA Line Level Attenuators to get those trims to near 0 (highest is +2) so I have some wiggle room. My normal listening for movies is at -5.
Edited by bsoko2 - 8/23/12 at 3:16pm
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Receivers, Amps, and Processors
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › Official Pioneer SC-68/67 Thread